Oppo Camp Where Are the Swans At? (Serious Question)

[moginie]

Only problem with this "getting smashed" theory is Essendon belted us by 78 points in the 1985 GF, we went on to win 4 flags in the next 6 seasons.

True, but that's why I typed "recent history". Draft, draw & competition numbers do make it a bit different from 1985.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

True, but that's why I typed "recent history". Draft, draw & competition numbers do make it a bit different from 1985.

I would have thought psyche was psyche, irrespective of draws and competition numbers. If we are expecting the Swans will disappear up their own backsides, we'd better think again. They'll be charged next season. They were embarrassed by us in the GF and will be using it as fuel for the entire 2015 season. The only thing that will stop them being a premiership threat in 2015 is a long term injury to Franklin. I'd like to be wrong about this, but I can't see them not being top 4 again next season.

The reason some of those other sides who got smashed didn't butter up again the following year is they weren't that good to begin with.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I would have thought psyche was psyche, irrespective of draws and competition numbers. If we are expecting the Swans will disappear up their own backsides, we'd better think again. They'll be charged next season. They were embarrassed by us in the GF and will be using it as fuel for the entire 2015 season. The only thing that will stop them being a premiership threat in 2015 is a long term injury to Franklin. I'd like to be wrong about this, but I can't see them not being top 4 again next season.

The reason some of those other sides who got smashed didn't butter up again the following year is they weren't that good to begin with.

I've got no doubt they'll make the finals but the fact is they've lost their best defender in Malceski who is/was a gun!...Not to mention the fact they have left themselves exposed with Pyke as their only half decent ruckman by jettisoning their best midfielder in Mumford in order to accommodate buddy!

Lets not mince words....We absolutely smashed them from center square & around the ground clearances from the ruck contests....When you combine these facts with their far tougher draw in 2015 then it's not entirely clear how they will manage to repeat their 2014 efforts.

Their bottom 6 was also thoroughly exposed to be utterly lacking when it mattered most!

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I've got no doubt they'll make the finals but the fact is they've lost their best defender in Malceski who is/was a gun!...Not to mention the fact they have left themselves exposed with Pyke as their only half decent ruckman by jettisoning their best midfielder in Mumford in order to accommodate buddy!

Lets not mince words....We absolutely smashed them from center square & around the ground clearances from the ruck contests....When you combine these facts with their far tougher draw in 2015 then it's not entirely clear how they will manage to repeat their 2014 efforts.

Their bottom 6 was also thoroughly exposed to be utterly lacking when it mattered most!

Yeah, I get your point. I guess I don't rate too many other teams as genuine premiership threats either. I look at who will jump ahead of Sydney and can't see too many teams putting their hands up. Franklin having a day out would atone for most of them. You only need to look at the Sydney v North SF as an example.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Yeah, I get your point. I guess I don't rate too many other teams as genuine premiership threats either. I look at who will jump ahead of Sydney and can't see too many teams putting their hands up. Franklin having a day out would atone for most of them. You only need to look at the Sydney v North SF as an example.

2014 looked like a very even and high quality season going in. Sydney picked up a gun, Freo were set to make amends, Geelong and us were expected to ease a little.

This year I think it's softer. Freo, Geelong and Sydney look less threatening . Cats haven't added much and Geelong have lost a bit of run. Swans have lost their best rebounder and have some real problems with Reid, Tippett, Goodes and possibly ted.

We've added a KPP Whig is nice. O'Rourke an upgrade on Hallahan (hopefully). We've lost nothing unless the old guys drop off.

North and port are on the up. North's 8 year rebuild is almost complete - topping up with Waite and Higgins is ambitious. Losing greenwood was dumb list management.

And port - they've strengthened their lair with Ryder whereas the others have shuffled the deck or declined. Hype aside they have set themselves to build a really top shelf talented midfield of high draft picks (polec, wines, Wingard, Boak, ebert I think were all top picks).

So we will probably see the sharp riser come from Richmond, Collingwood (really unlikely) or Gold Coast (quite likely). Essendon run on hot air and their bubble is about to pop, and Carlton don't have a forward line, backline or a midfield.

 

[B&GBlood]

Tim Flannery got AOTY under John Howard. Flannery continues to predict climate disasters, none have happened.

You need to re-look at the natural disasters that have hit the earth in the last 10 years. Don't include tsunamis and earth quakes and see what s**t the weather has thrown at earth. Long droughts, floods, cyclones, tornadoes, big freezes and heat waves all as or more severe than most on record.

It is happening everyday, step by step. Sure the scientists can't be categorical about timing and scope, but all the long term indicators are trending to increased temp's. With increased temp's comes gradual change to the climate and it only takes a few degrees change to cause the ice capes to melt and water to dry up. It is happening in the Arctic circle now with permafrost no longer frozen.

When the sea levels rise we will have half the population of the Pacific Islands in boats heading our way, there will be no stopping those boats!

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Mark Evans - Hawthorn through and through. Andy D, you thought the best way to screw our club when your own methods weren't working was by poaching our GM to try and limit how well we were run. Well guess what, you ****stick, he's now bringing your love child down!

EAD you fat campaigner!

Yes, great work by Agent Dougie.

Second only to Agent McGlynn who was our man "on the ground" and made sure that the motherland took home the cup in 2014.

 

[B&GBlood]

You make some good points, but if you think we won't learn this, do so at your own peril. You don't lose culture overnight(I hope not anyway! That GF result will pose some off season challenges no doubt), and I think we can agree, your club and ours have cultures envied by most others. Ours existed long before your club got it's act together(post 2006), so next season should be a cracker. Hawk/Swans games will be very interesting......you hate us, we hate you, yada yada yada, it will be great!

Interesting how the Swans were mauled twice in the last two finals seasons, firstly in last years Prelim by the Purple Haze and this year in the Big one by the relentless Hawks. I'd say the secret is out that the Swans circa 2013-- don't have the mettle of past teams. Thus their soft under belly has been exposed for all to see and copy. They will all be hitting the Swans very hard next year!

 

[Thaihawk]

I still reckon they bought into their own hype that week (including the drinking of their own bathwater), and felt that all they had to do was show up at the ground, and it would all just fall into place for them.
Such a shame for them - NOT! - that we had other plans.

I certainly agree, and can remember a past final where we seemed to have the same arrogance and confidence as we entered the ground. Needless to say we lost. However, I have said this many times, there is no way they should have started favourites. It would be like going off betting on a champion horse because of one trial.

Consider the facts.
We beat them at the G not long before the finals.
We have a good recent record against them.
We only faltered for ten minutes against Port. (Should have never have happened.)
We have a very good finals record.
They beat our B team earlier in the season.
They had Buddy.
At the best that makes us short odds on, but I'm not a betting man, so what would I know?

 

[Gold Member]

Only problem with this "getting smashed" theory is Essendon belted us by 78 points in the 1985 GF, we went on to win 4 flags in the next 6 seasons.

Difference being in the 80s there was 1 game style for all teams.
Win ball kick long to contest.

The recent teams listed by moginie all had their own unique styles, which obviously have strengths and weaknesses... Meaning a catastrophic Grand Final day beating gives the rest of the comp a definitive blueprint to unlock a game style.

In our last 2 finals against the Swans we have an aggregate margin of 117. I feel we now have them well and truly covered.

 

[Thaihawk]

Difference being in the 80s there was 1 game style for all teams.
Win ball kick long to contest.

The recent teams listed by moginie all had their own unique styles, which obviously have strengths and weaknesses... Meaning a catastrophic Grand Final day beating gives the rest of the comp a definitive blueprint to unlock a game style.

In our last 2 finals against the Swans we have an aggregate margin of 117. I feel we now have them well and truly covered.

If I may Gold Member, I'd like to add a couple of points.
Wasn't it John Kennedy's commando's that started, or at least played that style first way back in the 60's?
How come Longmire was coach of the year in 2014?

 

[Procrastinator35]

If I may Gold Member, I'd like to add a couple of points.
Wasn't it John Kennedy's commando's that started, or at least played that style first way back in the 60's?
How come Longmire was coach of the year in 2014?

Therein lies the $64,000 dollar question....Bozo the clown could have coached them to top spot on the ladder in 2014, with the draw they had!

Lies right up there alonside of: Why hasn't Josh Gibson got an All Australain?...And; Is Gerard Healy actually a real boy or is he merely made of wood?

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Difference being in the 80s there was 1 game style for all teams.
Win ball kick long to contest.

Would it be fair to say you haven't seen a lot of the Hawks in the 1980s? Not being rude, just asking a question, because if you think that's how Hawthorn played in the 80s, you are sadly mistaken.

The Hawks moved the ball downfield in scissor-like movement with precision passing to a leading player. Hawks player would know the drill, and lead to the correct places. For example, if Langford had the ball at FB, he would kick to the half back flank to Kennedy who would then bring the ball back through the centre where the ball would be transferred to the half forward flank, then centred to Dunstall on the lead. By the same token, CHB to the wing, back to CHF, then into the pocket.

Next time you see a replay of a game from the 80s, just take note of where the ball is at all times. I can assure you, they didn't just kick the ball long. That's not to say there weren't times where the long kick to a contest wasn't necessary due to opposition pressure, but this was ostensibly the Hawks game plan. It is not all that dissimilar to today's footy in a way, except today they work the ball around more like basketball.

Malcolm Blight as a commentator highlighted this one day. The question was asked of him, "Will anyone benefit from this information"? He replied, "Knowing what the Hawks do, and stopping them from doing it can be two entirely different things".

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

How come Longmire was coach of the year in 2014?

You have to remember, the media hadn't even considered the possibility that the Swans would be beaten. There were certainties prior to the game.

 

[Thaihawk]

You have to remember, the media hadn't even considered the possibility that the Swans would be beaten. There were certainties prior to the game.

Quite a con act by horse and his cola cohorts.

 

[Crankyhawk]

You need to re-look at the natural disasters that have hit the earth in the last 10 years. Don't include tsunamis and earth quakes and see what s**t the weather has thrown at earth. Long droughts, floods, cyclones, tornadoes, big freezes and heat waves all as or more severe than most on record.

It is happening everyday, step by step. Sure the scientists can't be categorical about timing and scope, but all the long term indicators are trending to increased temp's. With increased temp's comes gradual change to the climate and it only takes a few degrees change to cause the ice capes to melt and water to dry up. It is happening in the Arctic circle now with permafrost no longer frozen.

When the sea levels rise we will have half the population of the Pacific Islands in boats heading our way, there will be no stopping those boats!

Tsunamis and cyclones probably will.

 

[kimbopen]

Therein lies the $64,000 dollar question....Bozo the clown could have coached them to top spot on the ladder in 2014, with the draw they had!

Lies right up there alonside of: Why hasn't Josh Gibson got an All Australain?...And; Is Gerard Healy actually a real boy or is he merely made of wood?

I'd have thought that some sort of inanimate carbon rod could more than adequately replace Healy ...

 

[Lethality]

Loss of Malceski and Membrey plus an inability to trade in players will hurt them with an already ageing list. The only upside is Isaac Heeney at a late first round pick.

 

[James Colorado]

I'd have thought that some sort of inanimate carbon rod could more than adequately replace Healy ...

Don't thank me, thank...THE ROD!

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Interesting how the Swans were mauled twice in the last two finals seasons, firstly in last years Prelim by the Purple Haze and this year in the Big one by the relentless Hawks. I'd say the secret is out that the Swans circa 2013-- don't have the mettle of past teams. Thus their soft under belly has been exposed for all to see and copy. They will all be hitting the Swans very hard next year!

Yeah I imagine Dan Hannerbury is going to spend a lot of days in ice baths next year. Every club is going to go after him.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Interesting how the Swans were mauled twice in the last two finals seasons, firstly in last years Prelim by the Purple Haze and this year in the Big one by the relentless Hawks. I'd say the secret is out that the Swans circa 2013-- don't have the mettle of past teams. Thus their soft under belly has been exposed for all to see and copy. They will all be hitting the Swans very hard next year!

They are slow. I remember thinking this when we played them midseason. What killed them in the GF was probably their quickest two linebreakers in Jetta and Rohan having absolute shockers. And because we beat them so comprehensively at stoppages their normally 'busy' group of players such as McGlynn, McVeigh, Parker, who normally feast on being released by Kennedy and co winning the inside ball werent able to get into the game.

They are a good side so they will be thereabouts again - it is a pretty weak competition outside the top 6 and they are certainly top 6. But losing Malceski really hurts - they need to find another 2-3 players with speed to regenerate and challenge again for a GF. We had to do the same this year to replace a few and we managed to find some gems in Langers, Cegs, Duryea. Dont know their list well enough to know who is waiting in the wings and more importantly what types of players they are (other than Mitchell who is slow but a magnet). Towers gets a few games and is meant to be a great runner but hasnt been able to break in. They may need to make a few calls and invest games in a few types to get more balance in their side.

 

[B&GBlood]

They are slow. I remember thinking this when we played them midseason. What killed them in the GF was probably their quickest two linebreakers in Jetta and Rohan having absolute shockers. And because we beat them so comprehensively at stoppages their normally 'busy' group of players such as McGlynn, McVeigh, Parker, who normally feast on being released by Kennedy and co winning the inside ball werent able to get into the game.

They are a good side so they will be thereabouts again - it is a pretty weak competition outside the top 6 and they are certainly top 6. But losing Malceski really hurts - they need to find another 2-3 players with speed to regenerate and challenge again for a GF. We had to do the same this year to replace a few and we managed to find some gems in Langers, Cegs, Duryea. Dont know their list well enough to know who is waiting in the wings and more importantly what types of players they are (other than Mitchell who is slow but a magnet). Towers gets a few games and is meant to be a great runner but hasnt been able to break in. They may need to make a few calls and invest games in a few types to get more balance in their side.

I think the investment they need to make into the future, will see them drop off a few rungs next year. Their next tier doesn't have enough runs on the board, but perhaps the same could have been said about us regarding Hill Langer and Cegs.

 

[eldorado]

As long as they can keep over-watering the deck at their home games to accentuate their tackling game, they'll get plenty of wins. It was found out by a skilful side when they couldn't fabricate favourable conditions. ..

 

[Nuggets73]

Loss of Malceski and Membrey plus an inability to trade in players will hurt them with an already ageing list. The only upside is Isaac Heeney at a late first round pick.

Malceski is a big loss .. still a very damaging player, he'll be hard to cover ..
Swans will be lucky to make the 2015 GF .. TOP 4 AT BEST

 

[Blaze Storm]

As long as they can keep over-watering the deck at their home games to accentuate their tackling game, they'll get plenty of wins. It was found out by a skilful side when they couldn't fabricate favourable conditions. ..

The deck was pretty wet towards the end of the GF. They'd left suspicious puddles all over the ground by 3/4 time.