Where's the analysis?

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I would love to see a show genuinely breakdown the clubs methods - get some quality minds on there - Healy should be the bare minimum level.

Dunstall to host, with a retired coach and player, and weekly guest current coach/player.

How good to see what Mitchell's video review brings up (obviously mostly good) - but where/how criticised.

Some old examples, using Hawthorn's 07-09 tactics. Did you know the cluster was setup as much to provide outlet running as it was to reduce our KPD exposure - a tactic designed to provide uncontested rebound football (statistically most likely method of scoring) whilst relying on poor opposition skills and or decisions to create contests.

Did you realise when the opposition had the ball, the Hawthorn defender always zoned to the forward/left side of their opponent? That they deliberately compressed the left side of the field to encourage the opposition to kick down the right side - even to the extent of leaving an unmarked player to commence the unmarked possession (running) chain?

Did you know that on the turnover, the intended player ultimately to deliver inside 50m was usually the closest player forward of the turnover? There would be two other lines closer to goal (if turned over at half-back), who would provide countering blocks and subsequent 15m leads to open up space, whilst the near player ran the 40-60m to receive in space, running at goal.

Up forward, the four pillars - twin talls 30m out essentially blocking for two leading FF running helix patterns.

From the same era, the 'cuts' Hawthorn ran defensive side of the centre-bounce: Tap to Mitchell, to Sewell in the other direction, back to Lewis in the first, to find the unmarked Birchall (HBF) who had run 30m whilst we 'fiddled' around in the middle. Thrashed in raw numbers, but every clearance was effective.

For old times sake - the "turtle tackle", making the run down tackle with a reverse roll, avoiding in back, and showing opponent is able to, but choosing not to, dispose. (Conversely the habit of 'hatching' the ball from the pack).

More recently, the 45 leads, utilising the lower kick (not back over man on the mark). Kicking to position allowing 'blind' kicks with faith team-mates understand and will pre-empt the pass. Combined with Shepharding man on the mark to create space for disposal.

The deliberate/directed spoil - not marking even when a chance (esp up forward), but stopping clearing spoil - controlling where the crumbs/ground contest will occur. The tap-on rather than collect and handball. Choosing to manage the contest location rather than simply trying to win possession.

The 20/60 - short kick often wide to open player who can then kick over/around the defensive zone.

I love the tactical side of the game - more so because Hawthorn have (finally) started to show development of new areas. The Eagles 'gauntlet' was brilliant in it's simplicity, yet all commentators did was scream "Judd", ignoring the body work of Cox, Kerr, Embley et al to clear the path. A dominant ruck meant the tactic could be set and met almost perfectly, allowing an extremely aggressive mindset to be undertaken.
 
I would love to see a show genuinely breakdown the clubs methods - get some quality minds on there - Healy should be the bare minimum level.

Dunstall to host, with a retired coach and player, and weekly guest current coach/player.

How good to see what Mitchell's video review brings up (obviously mostly good) - but where/how criticised.

Some old examples, using Hawthorn's 07-09 tactics. Did you know the cluster was setup as much to provide outlet running as it was to reduce our KPD exposure - a tactic designed to provide uncontested rebound football (statistically most likely method of scoring) whilst relying on poor opposition skills and or decisions to create contests.

Did you realise when the opposition had the ball, the Hawthorn defender always zoned to the forward/left side of their opponent? That they deliberately compressed the left side of the field to encourage the opposition to kick down the right side - even to the extent of leaving an unmarked player to commence the unmarked possession (running) chain?

Did you know that on the turnover, the intended player ultimately to deliver inside 50m was usually the closest player forward of the turnover? There would be two other lines closer to goal (if turned over at half-back), who would provide countering blocks and subsequent 15m leads to open up space, whilst the near player ran the 40-60m to receive in space, running at goal.

Up forward, the four pillars - twin talls 30m out essentially blocking for two leading FF running helix patterns.

From the same era, the 'cuts' Hawthorn ran defensive side of the centre-bounce: Tap to Mitchell, to Sewell in the other direction, back to Lewis in the first, to find the unmarked Birchall (HBF) who had run 30m whilst we 'fiddled' around in the middle. Thrashed in raw numbers, but every clearance was effective.

For old times sake - the "turtle tackle", making the run down tackle with a reverse roll, avoiding in back, and showing opponent is able to, but choosing not to, dispose. (Conversely the habit of 'hatching' the ball from the pack).

More recently, the 45 leads, utilising the lower kick (not back over man on the mark). Kicking to position allowing 'blind' kicks with faith team-mates understand and will pre-empt the pass. Combined with Shepharding man on the mark to create space for disposal.

The deliberate/directed spoil - not marking even when a chance (esp up forward), but stopping clearing spoil - controlling where the crumbs/ground contest will occur. The tap-on rather than collect and handball. Choosing to manage the contest location rather than simply trying to win possession.

The 20/60 - short kick often wide to open player who can then kick over/around the defensive zone.

I love the tactical side of the game - more so because Hawthorn have (finally) started to show development of new areas. The Eagles 'gauntlet' was brilliant in it's simplicity, yet all commentators did was scream "Judd", ignoring the body work of Cox, Kerr, Embley et al to clear the path. A dominant ruck meant the tactic could be set and met almost perfectly, allowing an extremely aggressive mindset to be undertaken.
I've noticed most of these. How did you get the names/descriptions so down bat? Is that inner sanctum access or your own/a collective groups descriptions?

Would you mind if I copied this post for a discussion on a dees board?
 
It's strange how our game clearly evolves every year yet there is hardly any real analysing into game plans and set plays.

Yes a show like 360 may show one highlight of a teams play each week but where is the true analysis. It's strange how there isnt a show where they dissect a teams game.

So what do you see your team doing?
Who blocks for who?
Who leads to open space for another forward?
Who leaves their man open to cover?
Etc?
Might it be due to the fact that nobody, from the coaches to the players to the fans to the commentators, has AFI WTF is really going on out there on the paddock?
 

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Funny you should mention that op, I was just youtubing and came across a video dissecting chelseas form this season. Called, Frank Lampard, Gary Neville and Jamie carragher talk Jose mourihno and chelseas season so far. (Don't know how to link youtube on phone.) Even if you aren't a football follower, the depth of analyses is astonishing and makes our "experts" looks like oz kickers in comparison.

I would definitely watch a similar show if there was one available, rather than talking footy etc.
 
Funny you should mention that op, I was just youtubing and came across a video dissecting chelseas form this season. Called, Frank Lampard, Gary Neville and Jamie carragher talk Jose mourihno and chelseas season so far. (Don't know how to link youtube on phone.) Even if you aren't a football follower, the depth of analyses is astonishing and makes our "experts" looks like oz kickers in comparison.

I would definitely watch a similar show if there was one available, rather than talking footy etc.

Just copy ths url n post
 
I would love to see a show genuinely breakdown the clubs methods - get some quality minds on there - Healy should be the bare minimum level.

Dunstall to host, with a retired coach and player, and weekly guest current coach/player.

How good to see what Mitchell's video review brings up (obviously mostly good) - but where/how criticised.

Some old examples, using Hawthorn's 07-09 tactics. Did you know the cluster was setup as much to provide outlet running as it was to reduce our KPD exposure - a tactic designed to provide uncontested rebound football (statistically most likely method of scoring) whilst relying on poor opposition skills and or decisions to create contests.

Did you realise when the opposition had the ball, the Hawthorn defender always zoned to the forward/left side of their opponent? That they deliberately compressed the left side of the field to encourage the opposition to kick down the right side - even to the extent of leaving an unmarked player to commence the unmarked possession (running) chain?

Did you know that on the turnover, the intended player ultimately to deliver inside 50m was usually the closest player forward of the turnover? There would be two other lines closer to goal (if turned over at half-back), who would provide countering blocks and subsequent 15m leads to open up space, whilst the near player ran the 40-60m to receive in space, running at goal.

Up forward, the four pillars - twin talls 30m out essentially blocking for two leading FF running helix patterns.

From the same era, the 'cuts' Hawthorn ran defensive side of the centre-bounce: Tap to Mitchell, to Sewell in the other direction, back to Lewis in the first, to find the unmarked Birchall (HBF) who had run 30m whilst we 'fiddled' around in the middle. Thrashed in raw numbers, but every clearance was effective.

For old times sake - the "turtle tackle", making the run down tackle with a reverse roll, avoiding in back, and showing opponent is able to, but choosing not to, dispose. (Conversely the habit of 'hatching' the ball from the pack).

More recently, the 45 leads, utilising the lower kick (not back over man on the mark). Kicking to position allowing 'blind' kicks with faith team-mates understand and will pre-empt the pass. Combined with Shepharding man on the mark to create space for disposal.

The deliberate/directed spoil - not marking even when a chance (esp up forward), but stopping clearing spoil - controlling where the crumbs/ground contest will occur. The tap-on rather than collect and handball. Choosing to manage the contest location rather than simply trying to win possession.

The 20/60 - short kick often wide to open player who can then kick over/around the defensive zone.

I love the tactical side of the game - more so because Hawthorn have (finally) started to show development of new areas. The Eagles 'gauntlet' was brilliant in it's simplicity, yet all commentators did was scream "Judd", ignoring the body work of Cox, Kerr, Embley et al to clear the path. A dominant ruck meant the tactic could be set and met almost perfectly, allowing an extremely aggressive mindset to be undertaken.

Why doesn't this forum/board contain more of this insight.

Personally I'd rather hear more posters discuss this side of the game.
 
Might it be due to the fact that nobody, from the coaches to the players to the fans to the commentators, has AFI WTF is really going on out there on the paddock?

I agree in some sense but its obvious that teams have plans. Otherwise if what you are suggesting there is no real need for a coach or planning.
 
I agree in some sense but its obvious that teams have plans. Otherwise if what you are suggesting there is no real need for a coach or planning.
I was being flippant. But as raised by another poster, there are so many uncontrollable variables in Aussie Rules that there is possibly more of a random element to our game than some other sports, that suggests to me that the playbooks get frequently thrown out the window.
 
Also don't understand why bigfooty doesn't discuss this type of stuff more often. Instead of the who will finish higher than who 10 months before.
Because most of us really don't get it - we are passive watchers who agree with things others say first. Real analysis requires a lot of time, patience and experience - most of us don't have all 3 of these, and most of us can't be assed anyway. Still, I'd watch a show with more analysis because the footy shows we do have are 100% boys club crapola.
 
Because most of us really don't get it - we are passive watchers who agree with things others say first. Real analysis requires a lot of time, patience and experience - most of us don't have all 3 of these, and most of us can't be assed anyway. Still, I'd watch a show with more analysis because the footy shows we do have are 100% boys club crapola.


Agree however there would be posters out their that do actually take the time.to analysis a game. Also thete would be ones that analysis past/present game plans. It would be interesting to hear from them.
 
Agree however there would be posters out their that do actually take the time.to analysis a game. Also thete would be ones that analysis past/present game plans. It would be interesting to hear from them.
I thought Simon_Nesbitt's post above was simply outstanding. (Not that I understood most of it. Just goes to show why I don't play footy.)
 
You are absolutely right mate.

There are a lot of fascinating concepts of our game people simply don't understand, take a moment to watch this video for example.

http://www.saints.com.au/video/2015-08-21/engine-room-cover-receiver

This is a fantastic example of a club willing to educate their supporters on their gameplan in great detail, this is one of many examples St Kilda did this year, a few I enjoyed in particular was their intercept marking video...

http://www.saints.com.au/video/2015-06-30/engine-room-intercept-marking

... Effective Crumbing ....

http://www.saints.com.au/video/2015-06-02/engine-room-effective-crumbing

And Leading Patterns.

http://www.saints.com.au/video/2015-05-21/engine-room-leading-patterns

Others include Kick ins, Hitouts and such.

All clubs should be involving their supporters in this way, it adds to the game when you begin to understand in finer detail what's happening on the field.



In terms of larger scale analysis of games and such, we are missing that bigger media personality with great analysis skills, Gary Neville for example is fantastic, and easily one of the best at analyzing EPL games and gameplans.

 

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Even foxtel is lazy. They come up with something eg eagles web, make some footage then use the same thing over and over for almost the whole season, making each situation fit the point they want to make.

The words "now over to the lab" make me switch channels faster then "hellooooooo, "Im frank walker from national tiles"
 
Even foxtel is lazy. They come up with something eg eagles web, make some footage then use the same thing over and over for almost the whole season, making each situation fit the point they want to make.

The words "now over to the lab" make me switch channels faster then "hellooooooo, "Im frank walker from national tiles"

Until Gerard Healy told us about the web at the Eagles I was marvelling in how my team had overcome the loss of its key tall backs - the Eagles weren't exactly widely tipped to make the 8, let alone the top 4, so it seems 'a touch of the green eyed monster' to sook about coverage now.
We didn't know about it, the brains trust at the Hawks understood exactly what Simo & Co was up to.

I agree the paralysis from analysis can get on your nerves, & like Pesso I just change channels or hit the off switch.

Be interesting for Eagles fans how 2016 down back changes with the return of eMac as #1 backman.
 
Until Gerard Healy told us about the web at the Eagles I was marvelling in how my team had overcome the loss of its key tall backs - the Eagles weren't exactly widely tipped to make the 8, let alone the top 4, so it seems 'a touch of the green eyed monster' to sook about coverage now.
We didn't know about it, the brains trust at the Hawks understood exactly what Simo & Co was up to.

I agree the paralysis from analysis can get on your news, & like Pesso I just change channels or hit the off switch.

Be interesting for Eagles fans how 2016 down back changes with the return of eMac as #1 backman.

It was interesting once or twice, but not the 55th time.
Other than little cyril and big cyril, amd the web, was anything new discussed before the grand final ?
 
The halls of anal is let down by chief analyst King's 'views' on Richmond. Obviously still has mates there.

Healy tries to keep up and give King credibility with his beige but forceful angle.

Dermott tries his best but after 5 minutes falls into 'preening' mode.

Matthews is a bit senile as is Malthouse.

Having a show dedicated to analysis of what coaches are doing would require a lot of filler.

Most coaches aren't the geniuses that they try to be. Half the time it's not even clear if guys like Brad Scott even knows he's meant to have a gameplan at all.
 
I would love to see a show genuinely breakdown the clubs methods - get some quality minds on there - Healy should be the bare minimum level.

Dunstall to host, with a retired coach and player, and weekly guest current coach/player.

How good to see what Mitchell's video review brings up (obviously mostly good) - but where/how criticised.

Some old examples, using Hawthorn's 07-09 tactics. Did you know the cluster was setup as much to provide outlet running as it was to reduce our KPD exposure - a tactic designed to provide uncontested rebound football (statistically most likely method of scoring) whilst relying on poor opposition skills and or decisions to create contests.

Did you realise when the opposition had the ball, the Hawthorn defender always zoned to the forward/left side of their opponent? That they deliberately compressed the left side of the field to encourage the opposition to kick down the right side - even to the extent of leaving an unmarked player to commence the unmarked possession (running) chain?

Did you know that on the turnover, the intended player ultimately to deliver inside 50m was usually the closest player forward of the turnover? There would be two other lines closer to goal (if turned over at half-back), who would provide countering blocks and subsequent 15m leads to open up space, whilst the near player ran the 40-60m to receive in space, running at goal.

Up forward, the four pillars - twin talls 30m out essentially blocking for two leading FF running helix patterns.

From the same era, the 'cuts' Hawthorn ran defensive side of the centre-bounce: Tap to Mitchell, to Sewell in the other direction, back to Lewis in the first, to find the unmarked Birchall (HBF) who had run 30m whilst we 'fiddled' around in the middle. Thrashed in raw numbers, but every clearance was effective.

For old times sake - the "turtle tackle", making the run down tackle with a reverse roll, avoiding in back, and showing opponent is able to, but choosing not to, dispose. (Conversely the habit of 'hatching' the ball from the pack).

More recently, the 45 leads, utilising the lower kick (not back over man on the mark). Kicking to position allowing 'blind' kicks with faith team-mates understand and will pre-empt the pass. Combined with Shepharding man on the mark to create space for disposal.

The deliberate/directed spoil - not marking even when a chance (esp up forward), but stopping clearing spoil - controlling where the crumbs/ground contest will occur. The tap-on rather than collect and handball. Choosing to manage the contest location rather than simply trying to win possession.

The 20/60 - short kick often wide to open player who can then kick over/around the defensive zone.

I love the tactical side of the game - more so because Hawthorn have (finally) started to show development of new areas. The Eagles 'gauntlet' was brilliant in it's simplicity, yet all commentators did was scream "Judd", ignoring the body work of Cox, Kerr, Embley et al to clear the path. A dominant ruck meant the tactic could be set and met almost perfectly, allowing an extremely aggressive mindset to be undertaken.

One of the most Insightful posts I've ever read on bf. I've always respected Hawthorn tactics. When everyone else seems to be taking the cookie cutter approach and copying what the premiers of last year were doing, Hawthorn were busy developing and implementing the next tactic that would overcome the tactics coaches were employing to counter last year's strategies. They're constantly evolving and improving on the past.

The tipping of the ball is simple but extremely effective. You always wonder why a player collects the ball when there's an opponent bearing down on them. Hawthorn challenge the belief and pull it off extremely well.

They're a think outside the box team.
 
Hawks have been describesd as favouring the uncontested.

Maybe this links up with having plus 30yo players still in the top few in the bnf of a premiership team. More longevity

Maybe that will deliver the four flags in a row
 
I was being flippant. But as raised by another poster, there are so many uncontrollable variables in Aussie Rules that there is possibly more of a random element to our game than some other sports, that suggests to me that the playbooks get frequently thrown out the window.

Yeah but listen to the post game press conferences/interviews - the teams that stick to their "structures" (or game plan) invariably win. Those who just try to play old school 1:1 footy or have weak links in the chain (ie players who don't stick to the script) have structural breakdowns and will get reamed by the opposition either slicing through them in attack or murdering them on the rebound with loose men everywhere.
 
Because most of us really don't get it - we are passive watchers who agree with things others say first. Real analysis requires a lot of time, patience and experience - most of us don't have all 3 of these, and most of us can't be assed anyway. Still, I'd watch a show with more analysis because the footy shows we do have are 100% boys club crapola.

Instead of every channel having their own version of the same show with the exact same dot points on the rundown sheet surely one of them could look for a point of difference. I'd definitely watch whichever channel put on a real analysis show and the best part is they'd never run out of material.
 

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