Which 2014 Carlton listed player could have made the premiership best 22

[Mister Carlton]

This will never get old, I'm serious.

Good.

 

[Jeremias]

So he played terrific and would be easily replaced? harsh. Look I'd probably pick hendo, but you're underselling Spanghers performances and doing his job for the team.

I'm not underestimating his performances and already said he's to be commended for taking the opportunities when presented to him.

However I'm not falling into the trap that so many tend to do when a player is part of a premiership side.

Spangher is nothing more than a battler and would be out the door very quickly if Hawthorn had a better alternative available to them, which Henderson certainly represents.

The OP asks us to look at both lists and determine the best combined 22 heading into the GF. That being the case, of what relevance is his performance on GF day anyway? If Lewis didn't touch the ball I suppose you'd be OK with someone suggesting he be replaced by Brock?

 

[BluesMan]

I'm not underestimating his performances and already said he's to be commended for taking the opportunities when presented to him.

However I'm not falling into the trap that so many tend to do when a player is part of a premiership side.

Spangher is nothing more than a battler and would be out the door very quickly if Hawthorn had a better alternative available to them, which Henderson certainly represents.

The OP asks us to look at both lists and determine the best combined 22 heading into the GF. That being the case, of what relevance is his performance on GF day anyway? If Lewis didn't touch the ball I suppose you'd be OK with someone suggesting he be replaced by Brock?

Yeah fair enough, not going to argue with that (not refering to bolded). A premiership side isnt a premiership side before GF day btw.

Lets not be ridiculous now (refering to the bolded)

 

[gillo94]

I think Gibbs would have slotted in well for say Shiels not knocking Shiels at all think his a fantastic player

Tough question as Hawks are a gun side and finding hard replacing players who won 2014 premiership. I have Gibbs and maybe Yarran for Cyril but tough biased call from myself

 

[Tony Lynn 15]

I'm not underestimating his performances and already said he's to be commended for taking the opportunities when presented to him.

However I'm not falling into the trap that so many tend to do when a player is part of a premiership side.

Spangher is nothing more than a battler and would be out the door very quickly if Hawthorn had a better alternative available to them, which Henderson certainly represents.

The OP asks us to look at both lists and determine the best combined 22 heading into the GF. That being the case, of what relevance is his performance on GF day anyway? If Lewis didn't touch the ball I suppose you'd be OK with someone suggesting he be replaced by Brock?

Spot on Jeremias. It is amazing how much better players get rated because they play in a good side. There are at least half a dozen in that Hawks team that are nothing more than good honest toilers. To suggest that there are only x amount of players from Carlton that would get a game is rubbish. A bit like average singers that die young....posthumously they are always much better than when they were alive!

 

[LanceRomance]

Spangher was on the team.... any carlton player could have been there

 

[Go_Blues!]

Spot on Jeremias. It is amazing how much better players get rated because they play in a good side. There are at least half a dozen in that Hawks team that are nothing more than good honest toilers. To suggest that there are only x amount of players from Carlton that would get a game is rubbish. A bit like average singers that die young....posthumously they are always much better than when they were alive!

On one hand that is disrespectful; the reason all sports people play sport is for success and every single player from that team are equally responsible for that success - in fact every player on the list. On the other hand, if another measure is used, such as talent, and given that everyone has the same salary cap, then the top half of Carlton's list easily replaces the bottom half or Hawthorns. After that it comes down to who fills particular roles in the team structure. Nonetheless, it is an interesting thread but what might be more interesting is which Carlton players would take the place of the top 6 players at Hawthorn given they are probably on the same money

 

[Tony Lynn 15]

On one hand that is disrespectful; the reason all sports people play sport is for success and every single player from that team are equally responsible for that success - in fact every player on the list. On the other hand, if another measure is used, such as talent, and given that everyone has the same salary cap, then the top half of Carlton's list easily replaces the bottom half or Hawthorns. After that it comes down to who fills particular roles in the team structure. Nonetheless, it is an interesting thread but what might be more interesting is which Carlton players would take the place of the top 6 players at Hawthorn given they are probably on the same money

I like your post but I have no idea how it is disrespectful? All teams have players that battle, still means they can play a role but it is easier to disguise in better teams. The point is Spangher would be awful in a Melbourne or St Kilda outfit because he would not have the support around him. I just hate it when I hear none of our blokes would get a game in the top sides because it is utter rubbish.

 

[Go_Blues!]

I like your post but I have no idea how it is disrespectful? All teams have players that battle, still means they can play a role but it is easier to disguise in better teams. The point is Spangher would be awful in a Melbourne or St Kilda outfit because he would not have the support around him. I just hate it when I hear none of our blokes would get a game in the top sides because it is utter rubbish.

Yes. So disrespectful may not be the right word but I mean that if they have won a premiership then all players are kind of equal and even the bottom player on the list deserves credit for that. I don't think you were being disrespectful to anyone.

 

[BlueMania]

We should remember also that Spanger was moved on by 2 other clubs before finding his way to Hawthorn and in the lead up to the GF, there was some debate as to weather or not he would in fact be selected. If Hawthorns list had every player available, would he have made the best 22?
I think, my opinion only, that he is a good quality fringe player who made the most of his opportunity and good on him. Another question, would he make our best 22 if we had a full healthy list? He does seem to be very popular regardless
As for the OP, I think Yazzman would be a certainty with Hendo and Menzel being in the mix also. Interesting thread this one!

 

[Blue Dangerfield]

I agree with you BM. Also reckon that some of our mid tear players would get a run too. As has been noted, the performance of each player is elevated when the team is playing well.

I reckon Everitt and Simpson cold squeeze in. Not sure in what position though.

I didn't start this thread to be all pessimistic about how the club is going. But thought it would be a good way to analyse the output of our players against the best team. I hope that by round 10 next year we could look back at this and maybe say that half of our team could play in this side.

 

[aflcliche]

With the Carlton inclusions mentioned, they'd really win the premiership

 

[slashin_velvet]

Here is the hawks team:

B: Gibson Lake Birchall
HB: Mitchell Henderson Hodge
C: Hill Langford Smith
HF: Breust Gunston Lewis
FF: Hale Roughead Menzel
Foll: Kruezer Gibbs Murphy
Int: Burgoyne Everitt Judd Sub: Rioli

Outs: Stratton, Puopolo, McEvoy, Shiels, Duryea, Spangher, Suckling
Ins: Henderson, Menzel, Kruezer (when fit), Gibbs, Murphy, Everitt, Judd

- People will definately disagree with me on Suckling, because he is a very good user of the ball, but he's soft as butter
- Puopolo was terrible the week before against Port, and if his spot was decided purely on the basis of that game, he wouldnt have a premiership medal
- Spangher is a good player and utility, and I see Everitt as at least as good (if not a touch better)
- Stratton is a poor user of the ball and not confident, a fully fit Henderson is a far better player (and can play both ends of the ground)
- McEvoy wasnt even the Hawks first choice ruckman for the full season, so his spot is definately on shaky ground....a fully fit Kruezer would have definately gotten a game before him
- I like Shiels as a player, but Gibbs is undeniably better
- I moved a couple spots around for the Murphy for Duryea swap, because they play different roles. I put Burgoyne to the bench to play the more running defender role, with Murphy in the midfield.

Flame on

 

[PumpyChowdown]

Here is the hawks team:

B: Gibson Lake Birchall
HB: Mitchell Stratton Hodge
C: Hill Langford Smith
HF: Breust Gunston Lewis
FF: McEvoy Roughead Puopolo
Foll: Hale Shiels Burgoyne
Int: Rioli Duryea Spangher Suckling
Emerg: Ceglar Simpkin Sewell

B: Gibson -- Lake -- Birchall
HB: Mitchell -- Stratton -- Hodge
C: Hill -- Gibbs -- Smith
HF: Bruest -- Gunston -- Lewis
F: McEvoy -- Roughead -- Puopolo
Foll: Hale - Murphy -- Burgoyne
Int: Rioli -- Duryea (Shiels) -- Henderson -- Yarran (Langford)

Out - Langford*, Shiels*, Spanger, Suckling
In - Gibbs, Murphy, Henderson, Yarran*

We have a long way to go.

 

[fizzkakz]

I am sick and tired of Spangher being underrated. Henderson might be a better football but Spangher's dirty beard leaves Hendo for dead. Beards win premierships.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

I am sick and tired of Spangher being underrated. Henderson might be a better football but Spangher's dirty beard leaves Hendo for dead. Beards win premierships.

And hearts.

 

[ShanDog]

And hearts.

Hearts and minds!