Who has been the better player: Robin van Persie or Wayne Rooney?

Who has been the better player?

  • Robin van Persie

  • Wayne Rooney


Results are only viewable after voting.

glenferry23

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Rooney. For all the reasons that have already been said.

Both are massive campaigners though. Absolutely world class campaigners.
 
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RvP only hit the top class level in 2011 (i.e. top 5 strikers in the league).

Rooney has been at that level since 07. No contest really.

It's interesting that Rooney has been elite for 4-5 more seasons and is easily the better striker yet van Persie scores and assists more regularly (in poorer teams) over their entire careers - that doesn't add up.

Van Persie only has 3 seasons that matched his potential - 10/11 11/12 and 12/13


When you think that [Rooney] probably end up being only the second player ever to break 200 Premier league goals (181 now @ 29), Probably break England's goal scoring record (48 to 46) and the huge amount of titles hes won that's a pretty high standard he's being held to.
Being played in midfield/bad attitude hasn't helped him but he's easily been the better player/better career than Van Persie.

30 Million bargain.

Good points. Don't forget that van Persie is also in the top 10 PL scorers of all time and 2nd behind Henry for non English players (relevent because they start in other leagues whereas Rooney was in PL from 17). RvP will still be around top 5 despite playing 120 less matches than Rooney.

Also, RvP is already the Netherlands all time record scorer with more goals from less games and better competition for his position.

As a team sport, titles don't make a player better IMO.

With the above, I don't think the answer is that Rooney is easily the better player (he is English though). Better, sure - but the gap is small.
 
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It's interesting that Rooney has been elite for 4-5 more seasons and is easily the better striker yet van Persie scores and assists more regularly (in poorer teams) over their entire careers - that doesn't add up.



Good points. Don't forget that van Persie is also in the top 10 PL scorers of all time and 2nd behind Henry for non English players (relevent because they start in other leagues whereas Rooney was in PL from 17). RvP will still be around top 5 despite playing 120 less matches than Rooney.

Also, RvP is already the Netherlands all time record scorer with more goals from less games and better competition for his position.

As a team sport, titles don't make a player better IMO.

With the above, I don't think the answer is that Rooney is easily the better player (he is English though). Better, sure - but the gap is small.

Roondog had to compete with Van Nistelrooy and Ronaldo and was often shunted to the wing to accomodate Ronny (yes i know RVP started as winger). After Henry left, RVP was the main man for Arsenal which may explain more goals and assists. On the international records, i'd strongly argue that England have been s**t for ages and led by incompetent managers. Rooney needs someone to give him the ball to score and yet gets blamed for every bad England performance. RVP has benefited from far better service and management at international level.
 
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Roondog had to compete with Van Nistelrooy and Ronaldo and was often shunted to the wing to accomodate Ronny (yes i know RVP started as winger). After Henry left, RVP was the main man for Arsenal which may explain more goals and assists. On the international records, i'd strongly argue that England have been s**t for ages and led by incompetent managers. Rooney needs someone to give him the ball to score and yet gets blamed for every bad England performance. RVP has benefited from far better service and management at international level.

Some good arguments and mostly fair enough. Although, RvP has had to compete with Van Nistelrooy and a host of other top strikers at international level so the argument doesn't work both ways. Similarly, the gap in service between the Netherlands and England would be similar to Man Utd and Arsenal (probably less) so again it doesn't work both ways.

Given England haven't progressed quite as far in big tournaments also plays into Rooney's hands as he has played more international games but usually against poorer opposition. RvP has scored more in big tournaments and against big nations and played less in friendlies and qualifiers (owing to the Netherlands having other decent strikers to choose from). Also, the Netherlands have had their fair share of incompetent managers and Wenger refused to buy anyone of quality for a large number of years.
 
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Similarly, the gap in service between the Netherlands and England would be similar to Man Utd and Arsenal (probably less) so again it doesn't work both ways.
Disagree on this mate, that Fabregas guy was alright, as was Terry Henry, Pires and all 45 attacking midfielders in Arsenals squad. At international level he had guys like Schneider, Robben and van der Vaart playing him in. Rooney has had sfa for England in midfield outside of Becks who was ageing when Rooney hit his prime. Don't bring up other england midfielders as the whole golden generation were largely s**t at international level.
Rooney is pretty much injured before every major tournament too. United haven't had a gun creative midfielder since Scholes.

On managers, there's is incompetence and then there is Hodgson.

I really like RVP but he only came good for Arsenal on a consistent basis around 2010/11. It seems apparent to most that whilst he is still very good, he's not as good as he used to be. One can argue that he had 4 fantastic years and was rather anonymous or injured at club level for the rest of his career. He's certainly had a better international career but i don't think that's entirely wayne's fault despite what the Daily Mail will have you believe.
 
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RvP only hit the top class level in 2011 (i.e. top 5 strikers in the league).

Rooney has been at that level since 07. No contest really.

I really like RVP but he only came good for Arsenal on a consistent basis around 2010/11.

FWIW, Van Persie scored more prolifically than Rooney in:
'06-'07, '07-'08,'09-'10 and '10-'11. In '08-'09 it is pretty much dead even: 0.4 goals/game to 0.393.
 
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He's certainly had a better international career but i don't think that's entirely wayne's fault despite what the Daily Mail will have you believe.

Absolutely - very little to do with Rooney who is a quality player.

English media are responsible for an unfair view of Rooney at inetrnational level but equally for an unfair view in the opposite direction at domestic level (i.e. over the top praise for years because he's English as the above stats highlight). Same goes for the English midfielders you were referring to.
 
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Absolutely - very little to do with Rooney who is a quality player.

English media are responsible for an unfair view of Rooney at inetrnational level but equally for an unfair view in the opposite direction at domestic level (i.e. over the top praise for years because he's English as the above stats highlight). Same goes for the English midfielders you were referring to.
He was the great white hope who didn't reach his immense potential and they've been hammering him for years despite the rest of the england team being s**t.

If he'd reached his potential they wouldn't care. They built him up massively when he was a teenager and they've smashed him so much he's underrated these days.
 
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Was this thread made in the premise that either

a) You wanted people to say RvP so they would agree with you
b) They say Rooney and you try and prove them otherwise?

Definately comes across like that in retrospect. I created the thread because I see them as very even and think either is a legitimate choice. I suspected the poll would be pretty close but that Rooney might get the nod as he is not as injury prone. I have mostly argued with those who view one is easily better than the other, typically citing reasons that didn't add up or were factually incorrect. Had the reverse happened (van Persie easily better than Rooney) I probably would've countered simialrly.

All those that suggested Rooney was ahead on longevity or just in front I have agreed with.
 
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The way you initially had titled the thread, Rooney was the clear winner.

Now, that you've changed that, it's not so clearcut, but I think Rooney still comes out on top.

Yep, fair enough.

I originally titled it "better career" because when you ask who is the better player most people will assume right now or current season. So I added career and then clarified in the OP (to indicate better player over the journey). I soon realised that people may assume career to mean titles, etc and would not necessarily read the OP, hence the change.

Thanks for your contribution - I reckon you've got it pretty much right.
 
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FWIW, Van Persie scored more prolifically than Rooney in:
'06-'07, '07-'08,'09-'10 and '10-'11. In '08-'09 it is pretty much dead even: 0.4 goals/game to 0.393.

So wait ... playing less games is a positive now? His chronic injuries are a major reason why you'd prefer Rooney.

In those seasons you referenced ...

RvP: 74 goals in 150 matches
Rooney: 111 goals in 231 matches

RvP would score 3 more goals than Rooney if you extrapolate his (skewed) ratio over 231 games. Hardly more prolific.

Not to mention you are getting almost two season's worth more matches from Rooney.

This is not even considering the fact that RvP only had to compete with Adebayor for goals in that time while Rooney had Ronaldo/Berba/Tevez/etc.
 
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So wait ... playing less games is a positive now? His chronic injuries are a major reason why you'd prefer Rooney.

In those seasons you referenced ...

RvP: 74 goals in 150 matches
Rooney: 111 goals in 231 matches

RvP would score 3 more goals than Rooney if you extrapolate his (skewed) ratio over 231 games. Hardly more prolific.

Not to mention you are getting almost two season's worth more matches from Rooney.

This is not even considering the fact that RvP only had to compete with Adebayor for goals in that time while Rooney had Ronaldo/Berba/Tevez/etc.

Calm down mate - never said playing less games is a positive or that those stats make van Persie the better player. I quoted and was clearly responding to your claim that Rooney was elite since '07 and RvP not till '11 and that they weren't even close as players. I added some simple stats preceded by 'for what it's worth', highlighting these stats don't mean a lot but that might be a little closer than you think. I thought you might not be aware of it because the media pumped up Rooney a staggering amount in his early years and others, including RvP, were probably as or near as good, when he could get on the park anyway.

I actually agree with you - RvP's chronic injuries is why you would pick Rooney, not because there is a large gulf in class or because one was elite for 5 years and the other not even close.
 
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...if you extrapolate his (skewed) ratio over 231 games...

It's not really a skewed ratio - 150 games is more than enough sample size. If anything, it's skewed in the wrong direction as those games included numerous occasions where van Persie went off injured and all the times he was introduced as a substitute as he regained fitness. Rooney on the other hand played full or very close to full games.

It's a moot point anyway - yes RvP could score slightly more regularly (and has consistently done so almost all their careers) but Rooney has been more durable and therefore been able to achieve more.
 
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Van Persie only has 3 seasons that matched his potential - 10/11 11/12 and 12/13


The biggest criticism of Rooney is that he hasn't lived up to his potential. There's just this feeling that he should have been someone on Messi/Ronaldo level....

When you think that he'll probably end up being only the second player ever to break 200 Premier league goals (181 now @ 29)
, Probably break England's goal scoring record (48 to 46) and the huge amount of titles hes won that's a pretty high standard he's being held to.

Being played in midfield/bad attitude hasn't helped him but he's easily been the better player/better career than Van Persie.

30 Million bargain.
I dont think that holds any weight. Plenty of strikers have over 200 league goals in England. It was just before it was called the Premier League. A lot of people always say stuff like most PL goals or most PL appearances or most PL clean sheets etc and just disregard the English top flight before the name change. It's bizarre.

On the topic though, it's Rooney. RVP is a better finisher but that's about it. Rooney has him covered everywhere else. Both twats though of the highest order.
 

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I dont think that holds any weight. Plenty of strikers have over 200 league goals in England. It was just before it was called the Premier League. A lot of people always say stuff like most PL goals or most PL appearances or most PL clean sheets etc and just disregard the English top flight before the name change. It's bizarre.

On the topic though, it's Rooney. RVP is a better finisher but that's about it. Rooney has him covered everywhere else. Both twats though of the highest order.

Umm what? The English First Division is separate from the English Premier league.

It wasn't a name change, it was a created top tier to sit above the First Division, hence why there was still an English First Division from 1888 - 2004 (until it was renamed.)

The clubs that joined the Premier League in 1992 all resigned from The English Football League at the end of the 1991 season and joined the FA Premier League.

All statistics from 1992 onwards are separate from pre-1992 because it is a completely different competition.

Alan Shearer is the record goal scorer for the English Premier League with 260 league goals.
Man United have 13 Premier league titles
etc etc etc
 
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Umm what? The English First Division is separate from the English Premier league.

It wasn't a name change, it was a created top tier to sit above the First Division, hence why there was still an English First Division from 1888 - 2004 (until it was renamed.)

The clubs that joined the Premier League in 1992 all resigned from The English Football League at the end of the 1991 season and joined the FA Premier League.

All statistics from 1992 onwards are separate from pre-1992 because it is a completely different competition.

Alan Shearer is the record goal scorer for the English Premier League with 260 league goals.
Man United have 13 Premier league titles
etc etc etc
I can see why a Liverpool supporter would want to class the PL era together with the First Division.
 
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I dont think that holds any weight. Plenty of strikers have over 200 league goals in England. It was just before it was called the Premier League. A lot of people always say stuff like most PL goals or most PL appearances or most PL clean sheets etc and just disregard the English top flight before the name change. It's bizarre.

On the topic though, it's Rooney. RVP is a better finisher but that's about it. Rooney has him covered everywhere else. Both twats though of the highest order.


Umm what? The English First Division is separate from the English Premier league.

It wasn't a name change, it was a created top tier to sit above the First Division, hence why there was still an English First Division from 1888 - 2004 (until it was renamed.)

The clubs that joined the Premier League in 1992 all resigned from The English Football League at the end of the 1991 season and joined the FA Premier League.

All statistics from 1992 onwards are separate from pre-1992 because it is a completely different competition.

Alan Shearer is the record goal scorer for the English Premier League with 260 league goals.
Man United have 13 Premier league titles
etc etc etc

Sorry, but... no. Just... no.

It may be a separate division, even it's own separate company, the only thing that separates the PL and the FL is the commercial deal. It still maintained its history and the relegation system as per the FA agreement, which is that the FA recognises the Premier League as the top league of the English Football Pyramid along with its history, or else the Premier League wouldn't have exactly lasted very long if it didn't get backing by the nation's own FA.

Yes, the Premier League does promote stats relevant to it post-1992, so you have stats like QPR apparently going 2 whole years without winning an away game, or Leicester haven't scored a goal since 2004 (Well no crap, if we were in the league, maybe we could.) But overall, in terms of stats, anything accomplished in the 1st division prior to 1992 is also recognised.)

Basically, the PL is its own company, and it likes to promote its own stats (as it would obviously do), but as per the agreement, it is part of the FA footballing structure, with all of its history recognised. Jod is correct on this one, it's bizzare how people use the stats produced by the PL to make a point, ignoring all else before that. It seems to be very 'Anti-Scouser' (Both Liverpool and Everton).




In regards to this topic. I'd have to give it to Van Persie by a tinge. Rooney's the better all round player, but there's something about his career that seems a little... well, unsatisfactory about it. Van Persie has done the deal both for club and on the international stage, he strikes me as capable no matter what the game is. Rooney... arguably hasn't. Don't get me wrong, Rooney has done a lot, nothing to sneeze at... but, I just feel something lacking when the big moments come up. Then again, he's only 29, he's still got years of football left in him yet. I'll be honest though, the two times I've seen him against Leicester this season, he does these nice little things off the ball that aids his teammates, and he does give it his all (Look at how he ran to try stop Vardy from scoring).
 
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Umm what? The English First Division is separate from the English Premier league.

It wasn't a name change, it was a created top tier to sit above the First Division, hence why there was still an English First Division from 1888 - 2004 (until it was renamed.)

The clubs that joined the Premier League in 1992 all resigned from The English Football League at the end of the 1991 season and joined the FA Premier League.

All statistics from 1992 onwards are separate from pre-1992 because it is a completely different competition.

Alan Shearer is the record goal scorer for the English Premier League with 260 league goals.
Man United have 13 Premier league titles
etc etc etc
Im aware as to how the Premier League was formed but it was still the top tier of English football. In 1991 the top tier was the First Division, in 1992, the top tier was the Premier League.

It's still the very top of league of English football despite a name change.

For instance when you talk about Man United you dont say they have 13 Premier League titles and 7 First Division titles. You just say they have 20 league titles.

Guys with goal scoring records in the First Division before the Premier League is no different from Shearer's record. In fact technically Shearer's record isnt a record. If you are talking most league goals in England's top flight then he doesnt come out on top.
 
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Sorry, but... no. Just... no.

It may be a separate division, even it's own separate company, the only thing that separates the PL and the FL is the commercial deal. It still maintained its history and the relegation system as per the FA agreement, which is that the FA recognises the Premier League as the top league of the English Football Pyramid along with its history, or else the Premier League wouldn't have exactly lasted very long if it didn't get backing by the nation's own FA.

Yes, the Premier League does promote stats relevant to it post-1992, so you have stats like QPR apparently going 2 whole years without winning an away game, or Leicester haven't scored a goal since 2004 (Well no crap, if we were in the league, maybe we could.) But overall, in terms of stats, anything accomplished in the 1st division prior to 1992 is also recognised.)

Basically, the PL is its own company, and it likes to promote its own stats (as it would obviously do), but as per the agreement, it is part of the FA footballing structure, with all of its history recognised. Jod is correct on this one, it's bizzare how people use the stats produced by the PL to make a point, ignoring all else before that. It seems to be very 'Anti-Scouser' (Both Liverpool and Everton).
Exactly. It's crazy how many people just like to wipe away any football that was played before 1992? Particularly one set of supporters.
 
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