Bumped Who Is Closer To A Premiership? Lions/Pies? (new posts start at #244)

[Scodog10]

A long way??? Swan and Broomhead, than we haven't even seen Freeman yet, nor BK with any semblance of fitness under his belt. I'll be shocked if our midfield doesn't equip itself quite well in round 1.

The Brisbane midfield is being massively overrated and many are getting sucked in by the media. I watched them plenty living up here. Have a look at the flogging they got from Adelaide by 100 points at the Gabba. Rockliff got 40 of the most worthless possessions I've ever seen. It was worse then the game we played against Hawthorn in 2012, where Beams, Swan & Pendles all had near 40 possies but we still got flogged.

Hanley and Beams are guns. Rich has the potential to be but he better get a move on. The others are solid players or not proven yet (Mayes/Aish), similar to some of our youngsters.

As for a defining trait for our midfield, I'll bet it's a shitload better, defensively and that's a big part of why our backline got exposed in the 2nd half of the year.

Not aiming it at you Doggy but it's quite funny how many talk up opposing team players based on stats and media comments but over analyse our own players who we watch day in day out.

It's cool I didn't feel like it was aimed at me. I just share Knightmare's opinion.

Nothing that we have done as a club over the past 24 months has yielded any improvement. Brisbane on the other hand injected pace galore and have a willingness to take the game on. Their KPP's are nowhere near as far off as some suggest as well with McStay, Gardiner, Freeman and Close all looking solid plus Keays in the 2015 draft.

We lack creativity, gamebreakers, ball winners (with Swan declining and Beams gone), skill and size. Plus a game plan that will overcome what we lack.

As for the defining trait being better defensively is not one. What I mean by that statement is Hawthorn's overall skill level, North Melbourne's grunt on the inside, Port's power running, Fremantle's defense first mantra, Geelong's willingness to hit the corridor, Brisbane now have run run and more run (with very good players to feed that) and we have Pendlebury. Oh and Broomhead who will be an absolute star, but Buckley will probably refuse to run him through the midfield next year anyway!!

In the space of 3 years we've gone from being the best at everything with every other club envious of us to having just two competitive advantages that are the best president in the league and us as the biggest supporter base. We've fallen behind the other clubs in just about every other area. Some of our operations behind closed doors have fallen so far behind the best teams it would genuinely shock you (not going to go into detail though).

I love the club went to 16 matches this year, spent over 1k a membership and merch and have a magpie tattoo, but I'm going to tell it straight, we are on struggle street ATM. However that being said I tend to take the view that Collingwood ATM is like a teenage kid that is spinning out of control. We have two choices 1. Mollycoddle them and say everything will be fine or 2. Be firm and give them the clip they deserve which will see them better in the long term.

It may all seem very bleak, but it could turn quickly with the right moves in the right areas. Eade taking on the GC role chief among them. Get that sorted move Hine to Football Director, Rendell to head of recruiting and Daveron answerable to Hine and thinks take shape off field. The on field stuff will become settled as well with fewer chiefs more indians and things more streamlined. I just have no faith in the club making these moves because of personalities...

 

[carndapies]

Cant believe anyone would think Brisbane are anywhere near a premiership, this happened with Carlton a year or two ago! Picked up a couple of players from the draft got Malthouse in all of a sudden they were premiership favourites with "the best midfield in the league". Brisbane have no forward line a weak backline and a solid midfield.

The pies are obviously rebuilding with what will be 7 first round draft picks in the last 3 years (Kennedy, Broomhead, Grundy, Scharenberg, Freeman, Moore and pick 5. We also have Keeffe and Frost already holding down key back positions who are still very young. We are coming off a premiership in 2010 and have begun to rebuild over the last 2 years lions have been rebuilding since 2005. I honestly believe in our recruitment and development to be some of the best in the league while lions to be one of the worst.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I'm not the least bit interested in who is closer to a flag ( I have a glass half full attitude though so always hopeful) but I do think Beams is not the answer to their problems. Sure their good midfield will get a little better but hes not going to fill the holes they have in key position. And thats their main weakness

 

[HenrikLundqvist]

Can you all get over your hard on for Brisbane?

They've been a basketcase for close to a decade now.

 

[SpongePie]

2015 is our year to get 20 games into some of the kids.
2016 we win our next Premiership.

 

[Smoothness]

2017 is the year the window starts to open again.Our biggest concern will be other clubs poaching our young players.

 

[Smoothness]

Dont be surprised if we win the flag in 2020.I have a feeling it will be one dsy in october again.

 

[Hagla]

Brisbane 2012 - 13th
Brisbane 2013 - 12th
Brisbane 2014 - 15th

Everyone is talking about Brisbane as being on an upward curve and heading in the right direction before they have shown any signs that this is the case ...

If they'd managed to grab a genuine mature KPF I could understand the hype a little, but you would still have to rein in the hype and remember they were a bottom 4 side this year. They could climb the ladder or just as easily fail miserably and finish last. 1st year players went well which I suspect is where half the hype comes from, the other half from Christensen and Beams.

In all honesty, if Brisbane's lack of depth is clear to any team in the league it should be Collingwood, as we have just finished trading with them and quickly noticed that outside of the top 7 or so there isn't a lot to like - Rockliff, Redden, Rich, Hanley, Aish, Mayes, Zorko and Peanuts... I guess when you add Beams and Christensen to that they have 9 decent players. Throw in Lewis Taylor if you think he can back it up in his 2nd year and you get 10, only need to field another 8 and pick 4 for the bench and you've got yourself a team that probably won't play finals and will be talked up again next year for being on an upward curve while falling further down the ladder...

 

[Mateyman]

It's cool I didn't feel like it was aimed at me. I just share Knightmare's opinion.

Nothing that we have done as a club over the past 24 months has yielded any improvement. Brisbane on the other hand injected pace galore and have a willingness to take the game on. Their KPP's are nowhere near as far off as some suggest as well with McStay, Gardiner, Freeman and Close all looking solid plus Keays in the 2015 draft.

We lack creativity, gamebreakers, ball winners (with Swan declining and Beams gone), skill and size. Plus a game plan that will overcome what we lack.

As for the defining trait being better defensively is not one. What I mean by that statement is Hawthorn's overall skill level, North Melbourne's grunt on the inside, Port's power running, Fremantle's defense first mantra, Geelong's willingness to hit the corridor, Brisbane now have run run and more run (with very good players to feed that) and we have Pendlebury. Oh and Broomhead who will be an absolute star, but Buckley will probably refuse to run him through the midfield next year anyway!!

In the space of 3 years we've gone from being the best at everything with every other club envious of us to having just two competitive advantages that are the best president in the league and us as the biggest supporter base. We've fallen behind the other clubs in just about every other area. Some of our operations behind closed doors have fallen so far behind the best teams it would genuinely shock you (not going to go into detail though).

I love the club went to 16 matches this year, spent over 1k a membership and merch and have a magpie tattoo, but I'm going to tell it straight, we are on struggle street ATM. However that being said I tend to take the view that Collingwood ATM is like a teenage kid that is spinning out of control. We have two choices 1. Mollycoddle them and say everything will be fine or 2. Be firm and give them the clip they deserve which will see them better in the long term.

It may all seem very bleak, but it could turn quickly with the right moves in the right areas. Eade taking on the GC role chief among them. Get that sorted move Hine to Football Director, Rendell to head of recruiting and Daveron answerable to Hine and thinks take shape off field. The on field stuff will become settled as well with fewer chiefs more indians and things more streamlined. I just have no faith in the club making these moves because of personalities...

Who are these absolute speedsters who have lifted Brisbane from bottom 3 to bottom 4?

 

[Scodog10]

Who are these absolute speedsters who have lifted Brisbane from bottom 3 to bottom 4?

Zorko, Green, Taylor, Robertson and Hanley. Who are Collingwood's linebreakers? Seedsman and.....

 

[Mateyman]

Zorko, Green, Taylor, Robertson and Hanley. Who are Collingwood's linebreakers? Seedsman and.....

If you count Green, you might as well count Elliott. Young, Marsh&Freeman will be around the mark next year. Varcoe is also quiet speedy.

 

[Baird]

Yeah, it's not like we had injuries.

You were 8-3 and still missed the finals, almost as bad as Essendon in 2012.

Rockliff, Hanley, Redden, Zorko, Aish, Taylor were all playing.

Dat elite midfield.

 

[Magpie Monopoly]

I just don't understand why anyone thinks Brisbane are in anyway shape or form a good side.

They have done nothing in the off-season to address their issues as a club. They already had a deep midfield of one way running players. Beams and the Home Wrecker wont add anything major to their side and don't supply them with anything they didn't already have. They have zero quality forwards or backs. Zero. I would not swap out a single Collingwood forward or back for any of theirs. Not only that, that "Coach" and "Board" they have are about as unprofessional as they get. Crisp found out he got traded on facebook... Seriously.

At the end of the year, we had 22 players on our injury list, many of whom were in our top 15 players. We will be looking at a list much more similar to the first half of the year, than the second.

And now Brisbane supporters want to bring up injuries.... Please give me strength. Yeah I'm not sure how they managed without Trent West and James Polkinghorne.

 

[tesselate_]

Crisp found out he got traded on facebook... Seriously..

hahahahahahahha

 

[mike123]

Zorko, Green, Taylor, Robertson and Hanley. Who are Collingwood's linebreakers? Seedsman and.....

Varcoe

 

[Scodog10]

If you count Green, you might as well count Elliott. Young, Marsh&Freeman will be around the mark next year. Varcoe is also quiet speedy.

Elliott is going to be a gun and is pound for pound one of the best contested players in the league, but has nowhere near the line breaking ability of Green.

Young is about to enter his last year on the list plus Marsh and Freeman have 0 games between them.

I love optimism, but you're seriously misplacing it if you're willing to back our group in over theirs...

Edit: I have to add that even though I see Brisbane ahead of us they aren't within a bulls roar of the top 4 let alone a premiership. A club $12 million in debt isn't challenging anytime soon.

 

[Implanttheseed]

Elliott is going to be a gun and is pound for pound one of the best contested players in the league, but has nowhere near the line breaking ability of Green.

Young is about to enter his last year on the list plus Marsh and Freeman have 0 games between them.

I love optimism, but you're seriously misplacing it if you're willing to back our group in over theirs...

Edit: I have to add that even though I see Brisbane ahead of us they aren't within a bulls roar of the top 4 let alone a premiership. A club $12 million in debt isn't challenging anytime soon.

Sounds like you should tear up your membership and go support Brisbane then... Who do you follow again?

 

[mike123]

Sounds like you should tear up your membership and go support Brisbane then... Who do you follow again?

Poor

Questioning people's support for Collingwood just because they don't rate ourselves as a premiership threat any time soon.

 

[Implanttheseed]

Poor

Questioning people's support for Collingwood just because they don't rate ourselves as a premiership threat any time soon.

Just sick of the negativity on here and the Brisbane love/wank fest

Get over it ppl beams is gone Brisbane are still a 12-16 side we will make the 8 this year the sky is not falling

 

[Scodog10]

Sounds like you should tear up your membership and go support Brisbane then... Who do you follow again?

Ah yes the old "you don't agree with how the club is run so why be a member?" line! A classic on Bigfooty!

Pay attention to the bolded below! I grew up with this club as a shitkicking rabble and fought a weekly war with my old man to go to matches from 95-01 as a 9-15 yo so I know damn well when MY club needs a kicking and when they need an arse licking.

As much as I can't afford to be a member next year and deep down know that I shouldn't renew it (because of how strongly I despise the current administration) I'll fork out the $600 then load up on merch mid-season. I'll freeze my arse off at games like the Carlton one this year, stay until the end of matches like the Brisbane one and watch on in the pouring rain at Vic Park to see the next generation come through the VFL.

Or I could just sit back, clip blokes and question their "support" when they state a negative comment about the absolutely irresistible force that has been the Collingwood football club of the past 24 months!!

It's cool I didn't feel like it was aimed at me. I just share Knightmare's opinion.

Nothing that we have done as a club over the past 24 months has yielded any improvement. Brisbane on the other hand injected pace galore and have a willingness to take the game on. Their KPP's are nowhere near as far off as some suggest as well with McStay, Gardiner, Freeman and Close all looking solid plus Keays in the 2015 draft.

We lack creativity, gamebreakers, ball winners (with Swan declining and Beams gone), skill and size. Plus a game plan that will overcome what we lack.

As for the defining trait being better defensively is not one. What I mean by that statement is Hawthorn's overall skill level, North Melbourne's grunt on the inside, Port's power running, Fremantle's defense first mantra, Geelong's willingness to hit the corridor, Brisbane now have run run and more run (with very good players to feed that) and we have Pendlebury. Oh and Broomhead who will be an absolute star, but Buckley will probably refuse to run him through the midfield next year anyway!!

In the space of 3 years we've gone from being the best at everything with every other club envious of us to having just two competitive advantages that are the best president in the league and us as the biggest supporter base. We've fallen behind the other clubs in just about every other area. Some of our operations behind closed doors have fallen so far behind the best teams it would genuinely shock you (not going to go into detail though).

I love the club went to 16 matches this year, spent over 1k on membership and merch and have a magpie tattoo, but I'm going to tell it straight, we are on struggle street ATM. However that being said I tend to take the view that Collingwood ATM is like a teenage kid that is spinning out of control. We have two choices 1. Mollycoddle them and say everything will be fine or 2. Be firm and give them the clip they deserve which will see them better in the long term.

It may all seem very bleak, but it could turn quickly with the right moves in the right areas. Eade taking on the GC role chief among them. Get that sorted move Hine to Football Director, Rendell to head of recruiting and Daveron answerable to Hine and thinks take shape off field. The on field stuff will become settled as well with fewer chiefs more indians and things more streamlined. I just have no faith in the club making these moves because of personalities...

 

[TradeDraft]

2017 is the year the window starts to open again.Our biggest concern will be other clubs poaching our young players.

Why would we lose Young Players?

 

[Kappa]

Who cares who is closer?

Neither team is close, no one has any idea what so ever which club will win a premiership first

I don't understand why people started caring about Brisbane, they are irrelevant.

 

[TradeDraft]

Who cares who is closer?

Neither team is close, no one has any idea what so ever which club will win a premiership first

I don't understand why people started caring about Brisbane, they are irrelevant.

Things can change Quickly. Just look at Port

 

[Scodog10]

Varcoe

I think he'll be lucky to see out his contract with us ala Young.

The move we should have made was. 25 & 30 for Greenwood and 36 we then move Lumumba and 36 for 23 & 55 (from Geelong) so Melbourne can pay fair value for Frost and Geelong for Clark (Varcoe for Clark is daylight robbery).

We then go to the draft with 23 and take whoever is available of Garlett, Menadue or Cockatoo who will all, IMO, offer more as outside runners than Varcoe. Unfortunately Buckley is now starting to feel the pressure so chose the safe option...

 

[Bay Pie]

I think he'll be lucky to see out his contract with us ala Young.

The move we should have made was. 25 & 30 for Greenwood and 36 we then move Lumumba and 36 for 23 & 55 (from Geelong) so Melbourne can pay fair value for Frost and Geelong for Clark (Varcoe for Clark is daylight robbery).

We then go to the draft with 23 and take whoever is available of Garlett, Menadue or Cockatoo who will all, IMO, offer more as outside runners than Varcoe. Unfortunately Buckley is now starting to feel the pressure so chose the safe option...

That is BS and you know it. Everything Bucks has done from 2012 to now has been for the future of the club, not living in the now. Our trading out of good players has shown that.

Pendles is 26, same age as Varcoe. I'm not a huge rap for Varcoe but if we think we can win another flag with Pendles, Varcoe has very chance to be playing in our best 22. He's quick, decent skills and can play as a small crumbing forward and kick goals. We don't have that. He can capably fill the 19/22st spot in our team for many years.

How do you know your trade hypothetical wasn't attempted? Given how long the trades took, I'd say we tried dam hard to get pick 23 for H. How many young players do you want in the team? Demons, GWS, Suns like? You need a balance or Pendles will end up ****ed in a few years because of his heavy workload.

As for your last 24 months lack of improvement call, Bucks has been open and honest about it. The club looked where we were at after 2012. They had a crack with the same guys in 2012 from 2010/2011 but that same group were no longer good enough. So after 2012, we decided to trade out some players with decent value for early picks to replenish our youngster crop, which had been neglected in our search for a flag during 2009, 2010 & 2011. Jamie Elliott the exception. We bring in Kennedy, Grundy & Broomhead in 2012. At the end of 2013, there are issues with good players of which are varied. The Leadership group are not unhappy to see these guys move on. We land Freeman and Scharenberg, who unfortunately are unable to show their wares due to injury. We also score a nice diamond in the rough in Tom Langdon. 2014 rolls around and unfortunately a required player, the 1st of his type, asks to leave. We'll get Darcy Moore + add picks 5 (top end talent) & 30 ( should be a decent player) to our list.

So in the past 24 months we've shed some good players, although non have played better at their new homes than they did with us & Beams has a chance to change that, but brought in Taylor Adams with draft picks 18, 19, 20, 6, 10, 5, 9 & 30 within 3 years. You'll notice we've stock piled some impressive youngsters at the cost of immediate results. Did you still expect us to challenge during this time?

On the other hand, we could have topped up after 2012 & kept whatever players we could under the salary cap, (we would have lost someone at some point with so many experienced players wanting their piece of the pie) then topped up again in 2013 & 2014, while risking the 'volcanic' behaviour that was very real through the 2nd half of 2011 and 2012, for an attempt at another flag. A similar line of thinking occured after 1990 and continued until around 1995, with supporters bemoaning how good we were rather then the reality of where we sat now. I'm glad the club didn't repeat history and got on the front foot to change that.

In hindsight, I'd prefer to be where we are now, then on the precipice to begin the inevitable slide like St.Kilda and Bulldogs suffered over the past few years, only to regret not trading guys out when they had higher value. (E.g. Griffen, Dal Santo & Goddard) both clubs would have themselves another 1st round pick for each player.

Thankfully, the club is taking a big picture view and understands the quality talent we have at our disposal but see no need to rush these kids because a few supporters are demanding instant results. Kids, like their results, take time.