Prediction Who will crack the best 22 in 2016.

[meima]

Aren't this topic about who is best 22 , currently Dawson is the best backmen we have and is having a good pre season as compare to last season.
I love Zacy.D until other ( collins, uebergang-my favourite player, Silva ) prove there are better than him in defence in Nab cup, I don't care about his attacking abilities.

 

[freodocker5]

This is getting boring and quite simply the fact that you can mention three , three goal games and one two goal game in an injury effected year for Dawson demonstrates he did a terrific role overall. Just for the record 2 or three goals on some of the better key forwards isn't even close to a bad effort.

A closer analysis also shows how some stats have been selectively mentioned out of context in the above post. Two of the three goals kicked by Tippet were when he was playing in the ruck against Clarke. Cameron was isolated one on one so five goal shots is not even remotely out of control. Playing Dawson freed up Lukey Mac for one of his highest possession outings too Waite kicking three goals is hardly dominate, but Im pretty sure Dawson spent more time on Petrie and Brown in that game then on Waite. Dawson played on Shoemakers for a fair bit of the Prelim too with Ibbo spending significant time on Roughead when he went up the ground to get the 22 possessions. BY my count Dawson had one goal kicked on him by Mcevoy and one by Shoemakers. He was far from full fitness last year, but still beat his man more often then he lost by a significant margin.

Three goals is actually a highish output against our defence and in the modern game. What i'm saying is that although Dawson is a serviceable lock down defender, i think that his almost negative impact on our attacking side outweighs his defensive abilities.

 

[wayToGo_]

I'm not sure this Dawson debate is ever going away as both sides of the argument continue to exaggerate. In the interests of finding common ground, and given many mentioned 2015 was injury affected (he only played 5 games) let's look back at his 2014...

Dawson was the eighth best at defending a lead (in the AFL) - that's pretty impressive. But conversely he was the tenth worst isolated in a one-on-one contest. Stating the blatantly obvious, he had the lowest kick-to-handball ratio of any defender in the AFL. But he had the highest retention rate from his disposals in our team - which is really important because it means although he doesn't move the ball far he at least finds good options that can clear it effectively instead.

All this points to him being a good role-playing KPD that is good at spoiling leads due to his great closing speed and he is also solid in finding and dishing off to someone else to rebound out of defence. But outside of that he doesn't offer much else - whether it be rebounding, intercept marking, one-on-one in a contest and so on like a player like Johnson offers as well as negating ability.

He must be B22 currently because apart from Johnson, none of the other guys have delivered his level of negating output. But on the flip side there should also be no reason why Alex Pearce or Collins or someone else couldn't eventually develop to deliver similar outputs to Dawson's but also offer some other aspects (eg offensive) to their game. It may happen this year, I think we need it to, but it may not. Regardless, Dawson is our best option as a second KPD at this moment in time but let's also not pretend there aren't better KPDs out there.

 

[mightydockers]

So 2016, we have been close.
I accept :
1. Z Clarke is a dud - forget the training. Until he can lead at the ball and not try and ride every contest he can stay in WAFL. I gave up on his potential in 2014. Stoked if I am proven wrong here.

2. I like... but fighting for spots. My 2015 Buddy Ballas - lift son like son son. Hoping for big things.
Mayne, Suban, Clancee, Barlow, Pavlich (yes he has gone around again so he needs to lift), Crozier, are the ones that are fighting for spots IMO. 3. I am interested in Langdon and Yarran. I think they are the ones to come in. Alex Pearce is a lock with Elvis gone.

3. Who thinks Yarran can make it? I see the draft choice as either insurance or a ready made forward too good for WAFL and possibly a game winning player at AFL. He is super fast and has the footy smarts to make you think time slows down. Until he gets game time it is still a last (high risk - with issues) draft pick. Something tells me there is a story here to unfold.

4. Stop bagging Zac D. I am so tired of stupid supporters for FFC. Zac is our #1 KPP defender. He defends. Support the bloke coz he does his job well and he also plays well in the big games. He is no elite goal kicking midfielder, but he bleeds for us, so time the Simpletons hold their tongues and accept he locks down key forwards period.

Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't make them a simpleton. This board is a place for opinions. salim malik preaches this ethos but he agrees with you in this instance so suddenly this sort of behaviour is condoned.

I disagree that Dawson is our number 1 KPD. Like wayToGo_ I believe that Johnson is clearly a better KPD. He can stop an opponent and make good decisions with the ball in hand. We obviously prefer to play him as a rebounder because he has a far better skill-set than Dawson. I also believe that AP will prove to be a much better KPD than Dawson this year. He can negate without the poor skill errors Dawson offers.

I concede that Dawson is a half-decent negator but I think what he costs us offensively outweighs what he offers us defensively. We were a different team at the start of last year when Dawson wasn't playing. I believe this can at least partly be attributed to his absence. I would like to see Johnson, Alex Pearce and Ibbotson manning the opposition talls, with Dawson a capable back up when any of these players are injured or need a rest. This is not dissimilar to the Eagles backline set up which worked wonders for them last year, allowing them to rebound more effectively. In line with the thread topic, I believe Alex Pearce will crack the best 22 in 2016 [if he wasn't already considered so].

I hope that Ross and the selection committee share my opinion but I honestly believe Dawson will play round 1. Clearly they aren't happy with his decision making and distribution and he is under instruction to improve this at training. If he doesn't learn how to execute simple skills I believe he will be squeezed out pretty quickly.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Let's get back to cracking into best 22

Blakely is almost a certainty

Weller might get a few games too

 

[meima]

Let's get back to cracking into best 22

Blakely is almost a certainty

Weller might get a few games too

Don't spoil it JMT, first hurley, then Mora . Don't want anything happen before round 1.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Don't spoil it JMT, first hurley, then Mora . Don't want anything happen before round 1.

End thread/

 

[Unique Name]

Let's get back to cracking into best 22

Blakely is almost a certainty

Weller might get a few games too

Who goes out from what you've seen so far at training?

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

Three goals is actually a highish output against our defence and in the modern game. What i'm saying is that although Dawson is a serviceable lock down defender, i think that his almost negative impact on our attacking side outweighs his defensive abilities.

In the Swans QF game Tippet kicked 3 as I understand but at least 1 if not 2 goals were scored when Tippett was rucking and Dawss wasn't on him at the time as he drifted forward in his rucking role.

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

Three goals is actually a highish output against our defence and in the modern game. What i'm saying is that although Dawson is a serviceable lock down defender, i think that his almost negative impact on our attacking side outweighs his defensive abilities.

If we consider your logic about Dawson's so called negative impact on our attacking side outweighs his defensive abilities then why has RTB and the Match Committee selected him for 69 games for the Dockers and he has played 146 AFL games overall.

 

[Yeti]

If we consider your logic about Dawson's so called negative impact on our attacking side outweighs his defensive abilities then why has RTB and the Match Committee selected him for 69 games for the Dockers and he has played 146 AFL games overall.

He has compromising photos of RTB?

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Who goes out from what you've seen so far at training?

That's a tough question. Possibly deBoer

 

[Unique Name]

That's a tough question. Possibly deBoer

I already had De Boer out for Bennell. Unless Bennell is injured I think he will be lining up round 1. His time on ground might be managed more than others and he'll spend most of his time forward but I think he'll be playing.

I think Blakely will have to fight Subes for a spot in the team.

 

[theGav56]

Fair point but yeah, it would be something id like to ask him because our ugly/not so attacking football is the major question mark that all the experts ask about our football side. So maybe not having a player who literally refuses to kick the ball and handball to players who are in far worse positions than him may be one of the steps needed to become more attacking

Why do you assume Dawson "refuses" to kick the football? I have always assumed that Dawson is following the coaches instructions in order to get the ball into the hands of the players with the best skills to make the play. I really would be shocked if you think Lyon would keep selecting a player who refuses to do anything that is part of his very clear game plan.

Interestingly, Lyon seems to have hinted that he is going to tinker with that and get Dawson kicking more.

 

[freodocker5]

If we consider your logic about Dawson's so called negative impact on our attacking side outweighs his defensive abilities then why has RTB and the Match Committee selected him for 69 games for the Dockers and he has played 146 AFL games overall.

Because he has a been a solid player in the past but he is now 29 and turning 30 before the season starts and I think a fit Alex Pearce will overtake him this year. Dawson will obviously be there in R1 but I just think that come seasons end AP could easily overtake him (I hope he does)

 

[meima]

Because he has a been a solid player in the past but he is now 29 and turning 30 before the season starts and I think a fit Alex Pearce will overtake him this year. Dawson will obviously be there in R1 but I just think that come seasons end AP could easily overtake him (I hope he does)

AP is injured in Rehab stop dreaming, if freo want to look after him for long term , it is better to manage his injury now. If end of season overtaken Dawson then talk about it in 2017.

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

Because he has a been a solid player in the past but he is now 29 and turning 30 before the season starts and I think a fit Alex Pearce will overtake him this year. Dawson will obviously be there in R1 but I just think that come seasons end AP could easily overtake him (I hope he does)

Come down to Training and watch how spritely Dawson is. He was out most of last year so his body didn't take the usual pounding and that is a bonus for a guy at his age. I see him being out as a bonus for him bodywise as he would have freshened up for this year.

AP hasn't got the experience to take over from Dawson as he has only played 13 games or thereabouts to date so Dawss will be around for loner than you think.

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

Why do you assume Dawson "refuses" to kick the football? I have always assumed that Dawson is following the coaches instructions in order to get the ball into the hands of the players with the best skills to make the play. I really would be shocked if you think Lyon would keep selecting a player who refuses to do anything that is part of his very clear game plan.

Interestingly, Lyon seems to have hinted that he is going to tinker with that and get Dawson kicking more.

Dawson is kicking more in pre-season so that should translate to doing that come the commencement of the season.

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

He has compromising photos of RTB?

Yeti So you have copies? Lucky you if that's your thing? ha ha ha

 

[jedi mind tricks]

I already had De Boer out for Bennell. Unless Bennell is injured I think he will be lining up round 1. His time on ground might be managed more than others and he'll spend most of his time forward but I think he'll be playing.

I think Blakely will have to fight Subes for a spot in the team.

Yes that's pretty much what I think too. I think Freo will be stronger this season due to Bennel and the younger guys posibly overtaking a few players.

 

[salim malik]

Sorry mate but this is absolute rubbish. Johnson is an amazing one-on-one defender. The problem is he is so good at rebounding that we want him to do that as well - with McPharlin gone we may not be able to use him the same way this season. I suspect the reason why we are looking at guys like Hill and Mora to play from the backline more is so they can rebound instead and let Johnson play one-on-one more. To give it some perspective, in 2014, Johnson only lost 5 of his 32 defensive one-one-on contests - making him a top 6 KPD that year. He also conceded only 12 goals in 18 games including keeping J.Kennedy, Westhoff and Tom Lynch all goalless for 40 minutes. All that whilst also being the #1 interceptor.

I know you hate stats but they are pretty clear in this case that Johnson is our best KPD. Zac is our next in line as a negating forward and he is tremendous at spoiling leads. The other guys aren't there yet but am confident A.Pearce and Collins will close the gap this year.

Johnson is a great defender when he has Zac blocking for him.

 

[salim malik]

Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't make them a simpleton. This board is a place for opinions. salim malik preaches this ethos but he agrees with you in this instance so suddenly this sort of behaviour is condoned.

I disagree that Dawson is our number 1 KPD. Like wayToGo_ I believe that Johnson is clearly a better KPD. He can stop an opponent and make good decisions with the ball in hand. We obviously prefer to play him as a rebounder because he has a far better skill-set than Dawson. I also believe that AP will prove to be a much better KPD than Dawson this year. He can negate without the poor skill errors Dawson offers.

I concede that Dawson is a half-decent negator but I think what he costs us offensively outweighs what he offers us defensively. We were a different team at the start of last year when Dawson wasn't playing. I believe this can at least partly be attributed to his absence. I would like to see Johnson, Alex Pearce and Ibbotson manning the opposition talls, with Dawson a capable back up when any of these players are injured or need a rest. This is not dissimilar to the Eagles backline set up which worked wonders for them last year, allowing them to rebound more effectively. In line with the thread topic, I believe Alex Pearce will crack the best 22 in 2016 [if he wasn't already considered so].

I hope that Ross and the selection committee share my opinion but I honestly believe Dawson will play round 1. Clearly they aren't happy with his decision making and distribution and he is under instruction to improve this at training. If he doesn't learn how to execute simple skills I believe he will be squeezed out pretty quickly.

Why bring my name into this ,where did I agree or like mighty dockers post.

 

[salim malik]

Its a Captain obvious statement I know but the two Zacs have one thing in common,they are the polarising kings at the club.
If you all hadn't noticed I'm firmly on the two Zacs side. They are necessary to us having a big season.
This is my opinion so those on the other side of the fence come at me.
PS ,useless stats will not change my mind.

 

[blue shark]

Because he has a been a solid player in the past but he is now 29 and turning 30 before the season starts and I think a fit Alex Pearce will overtake him this year. Dawson will obviously be there in R1 but I just think that come seasons end AP could easily overtake him (I hope he does)

The players that play FB, CHB, are not picked for their run and carry, more a negating role. Others in the backline I
would be looking at. These are the players needed to break the line, elite disposal.
Dawson does his role, taking on players with height,strength, to bring the ball to ground, punch over the line.
I would say our game plan, coaching, failed last year to address a weakness that was exposed by the opposition
the longer the season went. Our conservative style, injuries, loss of form, finally caught up with us.

 

[meima]

Its a Captain obvious statement I know but the two Zacs have one thing in common,they are the polarising kings at the club.
If you all hadn't noticed I'm firmly on the two Zacs side. They are necessary to us having a big season.
This is my opinion so those on the other side of the fence come at me.
PS ,useless stats will not change my mind.

Salim if you still feel sad about Mora, there is a shoulder ( danny) to cry on.