Who will defend this government?

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Not to mention the live export ban, an even more idiotic attack on an industry which has been vital to Australia for 200 years.
it turn out to be right to ban the live export , unlike this incompetent government who reversed it
 

mottrain

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The worst government in Australia's political history is clearly the current one.

Let's screw the nation for ideological reasons.

2 more years of backwardsness then bye bye Phony Tony.
What were some of Labor's policies last time???
 

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What were some of Labor's policies last time???

Carbon Tax and Renewable Energy. Positive long term moves for the future and moving to a emissions trading scheme.

Mining Tax to ensure the rich tax dodgers pay their fair share of tax, which the rich tax dodgers have never done.

Gonski on education.

I could easily go on.

Unlike the joke that is the $7 GP Tax and so on.
 

mottrain

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Carbon Tax and Renewable Energy. Positive long term moves for the future and moving to a emissions trading scheme.

Mining Tax to ensure the rich tax dodgers pay their fair share of tax, which the rich tax dodgers have never done.

Gonski on education.

I could easily go on.

Unlike the joke that is the $7 GP Tax and so on.
Carbon Tax - Totally a joke. Could've had emissions trading earlier on but chose not to terribly.

Mining Tax - Total Failure. Why implement a costly tax that lost money and also doomed itself from the outset.

Gonski - A set of reforms that were partially disproven to work or to be beneficial and above all the ones that Labor wanted to implement weren't even funded.

The GP Tax - This is being complained about after ironically the party complaining was the one who was at the forefront of bringing copayment charges into Medicare in the first place.
 

Northalives

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You sure about that?
I'm so sorry. I've just gone and had a look at the final AEC figures, (the figures I used were from my own archive sourced about a week after the federal election) and it turns out that Medieval Tones and his mob of extremists actually had a massive 1.56% swing to them, as opposed to the 1.47% I quoted , the ALP had a 4.61% swing against them(4.47% my quote) and the other extremist party, Family First, a .84% swing away(I said .87%).

Just a quick recalculation then and we find that it was 156 out of every 10,000 people that changed their vote in favour of Medieval Tony and his Abbots.

Tones found another 9 out of 10,000 people. My humblest apologies. These must of been the ones who took off early to spend some time in the casinos at Monte Carlo before heading off to St.Moritz for a spot of skiing.
 
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Carbon Tax - Totally a joke. Could've had emissions trading earlier on but chose not to terribly.

Mining Tax - Total Failure. Why implement a costly tax that lost money and also doomed itself from the outset.

Gonski - A set of reforms that were partially disproven to work or to be beneficial and above all the ones that Labor wanted to implement weren't even funded.

The GP Tax - This is being complained about after ironically the party complaining was the one who was at the forefront of bringing copayment charges into Medicare in the first place.
Carbon Tax - stupid compromise from the planned emissions trading scheme that was planned and would of worked a lot better. Compromised policies fail.

Mining Tax - again another stupid compromise on the original Mineral Resources Tax which also would of worked. Again proving compromised policy = failed policy.

Gonski - really never got my head around this, was messy and clumsy. Had some very good parts to it, but they were all tied in with a bunch of crap. Much better to go back and rework it into something practical. That said Vocational Education needs a massive funding boost.

GP Tax - whilst co-payments were brought in by an ALP government they were never made compulsory for all doctors, hence bulk billing centres.

Abbott's positive policies so far
1. ..........................


This government has quickly taken the cake as the single worst government in australia's history. There is no leadership, their is no blueprint for the future, there is no policy, instead we have slash and burn at the expense of lower and middle income earners whilst protecting the higher income earners who vote Liberal. The superannuation changes are just the latest in a long line of terrible policies that will make this a one term government.

Tony Abbott is worse than Kevin Rudd (I actually can't believe I typed that but I can't find anything to help convinence me otherwise)
 
I saw Cormann this morning claiming that the super changes will mean that employers will be able to pay their staff more. Now it's a commonly accepted view that people's inherent selfishness is one of the reasons that communism failed, in what fantasy land does Cormann live in where employers, given this chance to trouser a few extra quid will magnanimously choose to share this piece of good fortune with their workers.
 
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I saw Cormann this morning claiming that the super changes will mean that employers will be able to pay their staff more. Now it's a commonly accepted view that people's inherent selfishness is one of the reasons that communism failed, in what fantasy land does Cormann live in where employers, given this chance to trouser a few extra quid will magnanimously choose to share this piece of good fortune with their workers.



Cormann is just focused on selling their policies. Abbott was the full of the same robotic regurgitation of crap on the ABC last night. If they get a challenging question its, 'the people voted this in' shyte. Their is no explanation. They only get tangled up in their own spin when the try to explain or justify anything.

The fact that lower socio-economic groups are worse off is not something they care about nor are the slightest bit interested in. They are the Tea Party incarnate.
Just face the fact that they lied before the election, they are ideologically driven, the next election is where people will judge things. If enough people care, then things will change, a little.
God knows what the economy will look like & what job opportunities will exist by then.
 

Showbags

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Not to mention the live export ban, an even more idiotic attack on an industry which has been vital to Australia for 200 years.

"Not to mention the attack on human slavery, an even more idiotic attack on an industry which has been vital to Australia for 200 years"

-19th century slave masters and right wing conservative thought process

If it is an immoral industry engaged in cruel practices it doesn't deserve to be in operation. Even if it is vital to the economy or not this doesn't give the industry cart blanche to do whatever they wish.

I applaud the previous government for having the guts to do what needed to be done and to shine a spotlight on the cruel practices of this industry.

For all the previous government's problems, they did have a progressive vision for the country and did attempt to implement some very good policy ideas that would have been of great benefit to this country. But yes there was some major problems in the implementation of these policies.

This current mob have zero policies that will be positive for Australia. They are running the country like their own private business where profit/surplus is put above everything else. A government is not there to make a profit. It is there to regulate the free market and ensure that capital is allocated into socially beneficial programs where the private sector fails to do this.

They also have much greater capacity to borrow money than the private sector do (as their borrowing costs are a lot lower than the general public). This is very much so for Australia where we currently are rated AAA by all 3 major ratings agencies (the previous Labor government are the only government in Australian history to achieve this) which means that we currently access funds much cheaper than other countries.

What this current government is doing is undergoing a process of moving the debt burden from the government to households (all to score cheap political points, and to be able to say "we brought down a surplus"). Households do not have the ability to access the type of cheap funding that the federal government can and the shifting of the debt burden to them is just incredibly short sighted and stupid policy.

The problem with the budget is a revenue one. Which just makes no sense why this useless government of kleptocrats would remove 2 revenue measures put in place by Labor: the Mining Tax and the Carbon Tax. On one hand they say it's hurting big mining companies and then on the other they say its raising no revenue..............which one is it then? If they are raising no revenue then why not give both these policies some legs instead of getting rid of them entirely?

The changes to education proposed are the biggest giveaway about what this government's agenda is. They hate socialist policy in all its forms and cream their pants at the income inequality and lack of access to education and health that the United States currently possess.
 

medusala

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Mining Tax - again another stupid compromise on the original Mineral Resources Tax which also would of worked. Again proving compromised policy = failed policy.

Why do you think it would have worked? Yesterday a bank forecast an iron ore price of $75. At that price its likely only BHP and Rio would make money. Given that everyone else would be losing money and as below get reimbursed (Twiggy would be one happy camper one assumes) one wonders the likelihood of the "tax" actually costing taxpayers money. The original estimate for revenue collection was absurd because Treasury was too lazy to get the state numbers for royalties and put in extraordinarily optimistic price assumptions for iron ore based on the best terms of trade for 100 years. Imagine Australian taxpayers subsidising cheap Chinese iron ore via Fortescue.

It just showed how deluded and ignorant of the real world Treasury was (ie Henry saying even at 90% rate investment wouldn't be affected) and how deeply out of his depth Swannie was.

One of the worst public policy decisions made by an Australian government in the last 30 years.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-06-03/truth-lies-and-minerals-tax-the-rspt-debate/853264

Technically, it works like this.
  • The Government will provide companies with a tax credit for 40 per cent of the project costs or project losses. That, in theory, gives the company a "risk free" investment and, in effect, gives the Government a de facto 40 per cent interest in every resources venture

This is very much so for Australia where we currently are rated AAA by all 3 major ratings agencies (the previous Labor government are the only government in Australian history to achieve this) which means that we currently access funds much cheaper than other countries..

Fitch coverage started when? Oz 10 year bond rate is where compared to Gilts and Treasuries? Where do you get the above information from? Fairfax?

The problem with the budget is a revenue one. Which just makes no sense why this useless government of kleptocrats would remove 2 revenue measures put in place by Labor: the Mining Tax and the Carbon Tax. On one hand they say it's hurting big mining companies and then on the other they say its raising no revenue..............which one is it then? If they are raising no revenue then why not give both these policies some legs instead of getting rid of them entirely?

It can be both simultaneously. It is called compliance cost.
 
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Xsess

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Prime Minister Abbott and the Coalition to have made five promises to me prior to the election.

1) Stop the boats.
2) Abolish the carbon tax.
3) Abolish the Mining Tax.
4) Get the budget back under control.
5) Return responsible, adult government.

By my reckoning, in their first year they have achieved 1,2,3 and 5. They have made a start on 4 and are being impeded from doing more by the ALP which has entirely lost the plot.
I know it’s difficult to proven wrong over and over and over and over again. I know it hurts to see Mr Abbott and the Coalition doing exactly what they said they would do, despite the lunatic antics of the ALP Opposition. But why can’t people just admit they are wrong? This is a good government that is getting the country back on track. It has made several mistakes, some of them gob-smackingly stupid. Nothing like the scale of the previous ship of fools.
 

Showbags

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Why do you think it would have worked? Yesterday a bank forecast an iron ore price of $75. At that price its likely only BHP and Rio would make money. Given that everyone else would be losing money and as below get reimbursed (Twiggy would be one happy camper one assumes) one wonders the likelihood of the "tax" actually costing taxpayers money. The original estimate for revenue collection was absurd because Treasury was too lazy to get the state numbers for royalties and put in extraordinarily optimistic price assumptions for iron ore based on the best terms of trade for 100 years. Imagine Australian taxpayers subsidising cheap Chinese iron ore via Fortescue.

It just showed how deluded and ignorant of the real world Treasury was (ie Henry saying even at 90% rate investment wouldn't be affected) and how deeply out of his depth Swannie was.

One of the worst public policy decisions made by an Australian government in the last 30 years.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-06-03/truth-lies-and-minerals-tax-the-rspt-debate/853264

Technically, it works like this.
  • The Government will provide companies with a tax credit for 40 per cent of the project costs or project losses. That, in theory, gives the company a "risk free" investment and, in effect, gives the Government a de facto 40 per cent interest in every resources venture



Fitch coverage started when? Oz 10 year bond rate is where compared to Gilts and Treasuries? Where do you get the above information from? Fairfax?



It can be both simultaneously. It is called compliance cost.

The current 10 year bond rate is very low compared to a few years ago. We have much better ability to access cheap funding than a lot of other countries (not all admittedly).

The government has much better ability to take on debt than the private sector does. They pay a much lower rate on their bonds (which are not compounded daily like the average household and business debt does).

Do you think it is a good idea to shift the burden of debt across to the private sector (which is in debt up to their eyeballs) who don't have the same ability to raise revenue by increasing taxation at anytime they see fit? And do you see what they are currently doing as a step toward that eventuation?
 

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poller

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Prime Minister Abbott and the Coalition to have made five promises to me prior to the election.

1) Stop the boats.
2) Abolish the carbon tax.
3) Abolish the Mining Tax.
4) Get the budget back under control.
5) Return responsible, adult government.

.
All have been broken and lies exposes

1- Boats continue to come - Hence the terrorist propaganda
2- Abbott promised minor parties and independents would not run the government he lied
3-Abbott promised minor parties and independents would not run the government he lied
4- There was never a budget emergency , hence this incompetent government in less than 12 months spent, borrowed and wasted more than labor
5- More lies there is no Adult government ,
 
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Like Morgoth et al? Probably all off making moolah on the basis that if the electorate is stupid enough to vote back in the return of the people smuggler boats, the NBN and a further major debt and deficit blow out - plus everything else, then good luck to them.

I know I wouldn't be posting here still except that I've made my moolah and with time on hands -thanks to Paul Keating, Peter Costello, Kevin Rudd and Stephen Conroy. I'm actually surprised at the number of coalition posters who are bothering to post here at all - same old dreary spin from the True Believers we've had for 6 whole years of government. Should be left to talk to each other.

Please, please go with this thought and stop posting forever.
 
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One way is just enough. Easily better than the last govt simply due to mining and carbon taxes which were an idiotic attack on Australia's most vital industry.

Facts you say, all I perceive is fingers in the ear and economic misology. The last govt wasn't as bad as Whitlam but it comes second post war. Easily.

Out of curiosity, do you also disagree with the multi-billion dollar subsidies which governments provide to these industries?
 

medusala

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Do you think it is a good idea to shift the burden of debt across to the private sector (which is in debt up to their eyeballs) who don't have the same ability to raise revenue by increasing taxation at anytime they see fit?

Yes I do. The private sector is a far better allocator of capital. If someone cant pay back a loan, then so what? Its a bad debt. The government however, will increase taxes, print money etc. See Europe for how that all ends up. Not to mention Japan.

Maybe I am misinterpreting your post but I get the impression you think raising taxes is a good idea.

Out of curiosity, do you also disagree with the multi-billion dollar subsidies which governments provide to these industries?

Which subsidies are they? Could you please enlighten us?
 

Ratts of Tobruk

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Not to mention the live export ban, an even more idiotic attack on an industry which has been vital to Australia for 200 years.
At least this comment had some merit than Medusala's. The carbon tax and mining taxes attacked the mining industry about as much as Carlton attacked Port Adelaide in Round 21.
Prime Minister Abbott and the Coalition to have made five promises to me prior to the election...
Gee, Xsess, if only you told the rest of Australia about the five 'really, really real, core, signed-in-blood and not dead, buried and cremated' promises of the Liberals.

We were all busy thinking we had to listen to what the Liberals were actually saying, when you had the dinky di 'signature' policies all along! #facepalm
 
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Ratts of Tobruk

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Carbon Tax - stupid compromise from the planned emissions trading scheme that was planned and would of worked a lot better. Compromised policies fail.
Bollocks. IIRC Rudd's one was far more comprimised in the amount of compensation it gave out. Gillard's was a comprimise with the Greens, that was then comprimised back into a more globally-connected view when the price was linked in with Europe. I'm not sure what you think an uncomprimised version would've looked like, but all policy is a comprimise and there is often very little wrong with that.
Mining Tax - again another stupid compromise on the original Mineral Resources Tax which also would of worked. Again proving compromised policy = failed policy.
People on BF claim the first one was a mess and the second one better. The second one was famously brought about after negotiations with only the big 3 miners. Frankly I don't trust the mining community to give a fair assessment of the potential effects of the tax. The fact it is routinely called an 'industry killer' as well as 'completely ineffective' suggests that this idea never got fair treatment once the miners mobilised their millions to fight it/spread misinformation.
Gonski - really never got my head around this, was messy and clumsy. Had some very good parts to it, but they were all tied in with a bunch of crap. Much better to go back and rework it into something practical. That said Vocational Education needs a massive funding boost.
If you didn't get your head around it, then it explains why you think it was dodgy. From what I saw it was all very sensible, while being very expensive. But education pays for itself, as the economy improves with better educated contributors.
Tony Abbott is worse than Kevin Rudd (I actually can't believe I typed that but I can't find anything to help convinence me otherwise)
On Insiders they were talking about how they thought the Sunrise effect made Rudd's ego even worse as he thought his TV popularity meant he knew better than everyone else. His management style was his biggest downfall, but I think of him as largely an extension of Howard's time. Howard was wasting lots of money at the end of his tenure, and more concerned about media relations than policy.
Please, please go with this thought and stop posting forever.
It would be nice, but it isn't such a bad thing to have such an obvious example of Murdoch chutzpah on hand. Anyone who has been on here longer than a year knows Coalition posters dominated the boards for a long time, yet GJ types here that it's all lefties... Spinderella.
 

medusala

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Bollocks. IIRC Rudd's one was far more comprimised in the amount of compensation it gave out.

Ratts do you actually understand the details of both? It wasn't compensation. Do you also realise how much Gillards version raised vs estimates? Of the capital allowances that the big boys could use to offset their tax liabilities?

Frankly I don't trust the mining community to give a fair assessment of the potential effects of the tax..

Treasury estimates were billions out! Ken Henry stated that an RSPT at 90% wouldn't affect investment. Are you telling me you seriously would take the word of Treasury and Swannie over the mining industry?

NB is there any policy(s) of Gillard that you would criticise?
 

Ratts of Tobruk

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Are you telling me you seriously would take the word of Treasury and Swannie over the mining industry?
Yes. Treasury often gets it wrong in forecasting, but that's the point of forecasting. You are guessing at what might happen. Economies are fluid, the dollar floats, the world changes. It's called the free market. You should look it up - you might like it.
NB is there any policy(s) of Gillard that you would criticise?
I have criticised a number of Labor policies on BF. Asylum seekers would be the most prominent if you want to go looking.
 

Showbags

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Seeing as the budgetary issues are mainly revenue based (not to say that the expense side couldn't be cleaned up in areas as well) then yes I do believe that taxation is an area that needs to be reviewed.
But high levels of household debt is something that is a lot more problematic than government debt imo. Seeing as household debt and the money supply are closely correlated, bad debts in the private sector have a huge problematic ripple effect through the rest of the economy if allowed to get out of control as this diminishes the money supply and has a negative effect on growth and the level of investment made by the private sector.

And as you said yourself governments can print money or raise taxes to service their debts. Households can't just wave a magic wand like the government can,and businesses that are highly leveraged are less likely to want to employ people and take on risky ventures.

As you said. The private sector is an efficient allocator of capital. We need to be removing as much of the debt burden from their shoulders to allow them to invest and innovate. Saddling the private sector with huge debts and asking them to pick up the slack is not the way to encourage increased risk taking ventures.

Most people (except the libs ofcourse) believe that Labor's stimulus package, at least the first round, was good economic policy and much more effective at maintaining economic growth than austerity related policies implemented in the UK and Greece (and what this current government are implementing right now here in Aus).
 

medusala

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You really don't know? I would have thought that someone who abhorred taxes on industry would feel the same way about concessions and subsidies, but you don't think they even exist?

Time and time again on here the usual suspects in their Pavlovian manner copy and past nonsense from a certain newspaper listing all the subsidies to the mining industry. Of course it is utter nonsense. Take diesel rebate for instance. Its just a cost input as per GST. That is not a subsidy.

Most people (except the libs ofcourse) believe that Labor's stimulus package, at least the first round, was good economic policy and much more effective at maintaining economic growth than austerity related policies implemented in the UK and Greece (and what this current government are implementing right now here in Aus).

Lol at that. How is the UK doing right now? (and see link below)

Always amusing to see someone attempt to defend the stimulus. "Good economic policy". Yeah and Hirdy is an angel

Another damning indictment of the last govt. Australia ranked 22 in world economic competitiveness . We are ONE place above France. Almost beyond belief. And yet some say we need more taxes. Yes that will do wonders for our competitiveness!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...is-worlds-ninth-most-competitive-country.html
 

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