Who will make up our 'spine' for the next 5 years?

[Seedsfan]

While it is true some men continue to achieve height up to 20 yo most have finished by 18 and some well before that. Marsh is a pretty mature looking kid with an adult like body. I would be doubtful his height will increase from here.

Even if he doesn't grow he is still tall enough to hold down a KP. He is still a skinny kid who will need to bulk up before he is ready to play AFL

 

[Seedsfan]

Well that's your view and you're entitled to it. I'll stick with mine. Watts is 196 and not a KPPs jock strap, Everitt is 194 and another of the same ilk. See Marsh being more the Watts type 3rd tall player than a Roughead type.

Jury is still out on whether Marsh will even get a senior game yet alone be a gun, hopefully your right. I'll wait and see how he goes in 2015 before I get too carried away.

How much of him have you seen in the VFL? I went to a lot of games his year and he will be a gun.

 

[Apex36]

How much of him have you seen in the VFL? I went to a lot of games his year and he will be a gun.

Agree with this. He is one of those players that will do something that makes you sit up and say "wow" a couple of times a game.

Still raw, but his improvement from game 1 to the end of the season was phenomenal. The kid will end up being a bigger steal than Langdon imo.

 

[Mukesh]

Your position in the AA team doesn't reflect where you played during the H&A series, there is countless evidence for this.

Do you think Lonergan or Scarlett took the full forward when Taylor was at CHB?

I don't know the answer to your question but... who used to play on Cloke may help clarify..

 

[Seedsfan]

Agree with this. He is one of those players that will do something that makes you sit up and say "wow" a couple of times a game.

Still raw, but his improvement from game 1 to the end of the season was phenomenal. The kid will end up being a bigger steal than Langdon imo.

Exactly right I went to all the early VFL games this year missed a handful in the middle and went to nearly all neat the end. When I can back after not being in a while I did not believe how much better everything in Marsh's game looked his kicking and you could see his marking his confidence had skyrocketed he wasn't afraid to take the game on and back his pace when he got the ball anymore. His kicking needs some work still and he will be the first to admit that but if his kicking improves next year like he did this year that will no longer be an issue for him

 

[MeisterBot]

Geelong's defensive key position players were amazing during their run. Their key position forwards not as much, but in that era, Geelong's KPDs were Egan (before injury), Lonergan, Taylor and Scarlett.

Lonergan is probably the weak link in that group but that's like saying an injury free Brown who could play 2010 GF level games on a semi-regular basis is a weak link.

I can't believe we're underselling their defence here.

As for us, I see Marsh, Keeffe and Brown being the key players down back. There's also Frost, but I honestly think that unless Brown breaks down (which isn't out of the question at all), Marsh will go past Frost pretty quickly. Keeffe is a very quick and agile 200+cm defender with good kicking skills and potential leadership ability. So he will be given plenty of opportunities.

What interests me is how we will see Reid and Moore being used. I really believe Witts will become a very good ruck/forward, and Cloke is quite durable. With Moore now on the list, it gives more flexibility for Reid to be moved around as a swingman once Moore starts getting games, or it allows us to keep our structure and experiment with Moore as a mid/forward. We all know his pace and ground level ability is fantastic for his height and size. Buckley strikes me as a coach who likes to experiment with player positions and we've seen Roughead at Hawthorn do this occasionally to great success.

So maybe something to think about.

 

[mike123]

Geelong's defensive key position players were amazing during their run. Their key position forwards not as much, but in that era, Geelong's KPDs were Egan (before injury), Lonergan, Taylor and Scarlett.

Lonergan is probably the weak link in that group but that's like saying an injury free Brown who could play 2010 GF level games on a semi-regular basis is a weak link.

I can't believe we're underselling their defence here.

As for us, I see Marsh, Keeffe and Brown being the key players down back. There's also Frost, but I honestly think that unless Brown breaks down (which isn't out of the question at all), Marsh will go past Frost pretty quickly. Keeffe is a very quick and agile 200+cm defender with good kicking skills and potential leadership ability. So he will be given plenty of opportunities.

What interests me is how we will see Reid and Moore being used. I really believe Witts will become a very good ruck/forward, and Cloke is quite durable. With Moore now on the list, it gives more flexibility for Reid to be moved around as a swingman once Moore starts getting games, or it allows us to keep our structure and experiment with Moore as a mid/forward. We all know his pace and ground level ability is fantastic for his height and size. Buckley strikes me as a coach who likes to experiment with player positions and we've seen Roughead at Hawthorn do this occasionally to great success.

So maybe something to think about.

I wouldn't consider Lonergan or Brown a weak link.

 

[Prestige Presti]

Marsh has leadership written all over him, I remember when he went down injured as he was getting carried off he was yelling orders to his team mates despite being in a world of pain, that team first mentality is priceless.

Marsh should be looking at Michael Hurley as a blueprint, about the same height and weight and the same line breaking speed and attributes, although even then Marsh looks faster, Hurley looked a lot more settled in defense this year when not getting buggered around by Hird, although he does have that flexibility, and Bucks sure loves his flexibility.

Hine seems to think his best position is up forward, he keeps improving his kicking and who knows could be another Ben Reid situation where he goes forward later, wouldn't mind seeing how he goes in Goldsacks 3rd tall, pressuring forward role, could add a lot of excitement and Goldy get's to go back into defense adding some experience, while he's looking rock solid as a defender, as he forward he's capable of being an absolute freak, from what I've seen in his highlights anyway.

 

[Robroy22]

Quote from the introduction to Scarlett's book:
"I was born to be a full-back. That may sound weird, and many over the years have told me that I’m crazy to enjoy playing in the toughest position on the field.

But I’ve always been this way."

Apparently he is under the impression that he played as a full back for 15 years.

I'm glad that a random on the Internet is here to tell me he's wrong though.

Glad somebody else picked this up. Scarlett (as much as it irks me to say it) was a great full back. The fact that Geelong had Scarlett, Lonergan and Taylor (and even in some cases Enright and Milburn) to interchange between back line positions was a strength of their great sides. But don't ever think that Scarlett was not part of their spine.
Scarlett, Taylor, Bartel/Sellwood, Ottens, Mooney/Hawkins.....I think these guys might get a game at other clubs...even at Pieland.

 

[noideaatall]

Choose four players? Cloke may be still viable in five years. Moore will be there. 2 from Frost, Keefe or Reid. That, to me, is the backup plan so to speak.

Agree with the trend of the thread - flexibility is the modern key, the ability to match other teams strengths in defense and provide mismatches in attack. While I see a lot of options currently at the pies I'm not yet convinced we have a premiership/dynasty spine. Depends on what happens between now and then.

Frost and Keefe have a long way to go, might not get there. Ditto for Moore, despite the pedigree. Reid and Cloke's bodies may not let them be what we need five years from now.

The Witts/Grundy combo may provide a key forward position but I can see both of them actually being more suited to the number 1 ruck role. Not necessarily a problem though, we should be able to trade one of them out to land a player good enough to be a key forward, or at least a dominant 3rd forward.

Then there is other potential KPP like Marsh or Gault. I think we have the potential to cover the spine into the future, my concern is whether we have the quality. Should cloke rapidly fall off due to age or injury, Reid continue to struggle with injury and Moore flop I can't see a premiership spine. If we are going to bring in another KPP player I hope we focus on a high draft pick or a Bloyd like trade. Project players like Marsh are great but I wouldn't like to see a dozen of them at the pies.

Not convinced the spine will be all important five years from now though. I think the overall quality of the 22 rather than the quality of 5 or 6 key players is what will matter.

 

[TradeDraft]

Wait to see the Draft before I answer This

 

[Markfs]

I wouldn't consider Lonergan or Brown a weak link.

Lonergan has the advantage of actually playing games. Nathan is a very strong player in the clubhouse.

 

[THATSGOLD]

There is some fascinating discussion going on in the 'Pick 5' thread, about drafting talls versus drafting mids this year, and how critical talls are to enhancing our 'spine'. To quote FIGJAM in that discussion, 'great midfields can win premierships, but great spines build dynasties'. I think this is a thread-worthy topic.

Who of our current players will form the basis of our 'spine' for the next 5 years?
Who should we draft this year to enhance it (from our available draft picks, or the rookie draft)?
Who should we/could we target from other teams at the end of season 2015 to make it even better (FAs, or out of contract)?
Or is the spine overrated, and let's concentrate on building up our somewhat depleted midfield?

It will change EVERY single year. No spine will ever be the same year to year due to trading, leaving the club, go home factor, idiot factor, money factor injury factor.
If you can write down the best Collingwood 22 for 2019 you're a genius.

 

[THATSGOLD]

5 years from now:

Forwards:
Moore, Witts/Grundy, Wright (fingers crossed)

Defenders:
Keeffe, Frost, ?

Reid, Brown and Cloke either retired or winding down their careers.

Moore possibly a swingman who can play both ends, or as a defender if Cox makes it as a forward.

Gault won't make it.

No just no.
Won't even be worthy of being right in two years let alone five.

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

Next 5 years? We will win a premiership before that in 2016 or 17. My dream draft scenario is Pickett and Blakely.

Premiership Team:

B: Ben Reid ~ Jack Frost ~ Marley Williams
HB: Tom Langdon ~ Lachlan Keeffe ~ Mathew Scharenberg

C: Jarrod Pickett ~ Taylor Adams ~ Steele Sidebottom

HF: Tim Broomhead ~ Travis Cloke ~ Nathan Freeman
F: Jarrod Witts ~ Darcy Moore ~ Jamie Elliott

R: Brodie Grundy ~ Connor Blakely ~ Scott Pendlebury

I/C: Levi Greenwood ~ Paul Seedsman ~ Ben Kennedy
Sub: Travis Varcoe

Agree 2016 or even next year if we are injury free.
Reid up forward.
I'd prefer Nakia to Blakey, and I don't think Dane Swan is done just yet. Swan in for Kennedy.
I'm not sold on keeffe yet, but we don't have other options at the moment.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Backline: Frost, Lever, Keeffe
Forwards, Moore, Cameron, Cox/Grundy/Witts

 

[Markfs]

2019 backline

Lim Kim Kao
Han Feng Tong

 

[Apex36]

No just no.
Won't even be worthy of being right in two years let alone five.

It's speculation champ. Nobody here is likely to be right.

If you put the same amount of energy writing something productive rather than the negative bullshit you're so renowned for, you could be the best poster on this site.

 

[jackcass]

How much of him have you seen in the VFL? I went to a lot of games his year and he will be a gun.

Watched him live on 6 occasions and twice on ABC games. May well turn into a senior player, may not. Got a bit of work to do before he's even considered for a senior H&A game. Just who's spot do you see him taking?

 

[Ingy]

Keeffe and Frost will be in their prime in five years. Brown and Reid will be getting near the end, but still playing hopefully.

Reid spills into the forward line also, Moore will be entering his prime, the two-headed, four armed monster that is Grundy-Witts (Gritts?) will be occupying a tall forward position as well as the ruck. Cloke may not be dead.

Cox and Gault, you never know, you couldn't bank on it but I can't see how you can rule it out. If they had no chance they'd be delisted.

In the category of players over 190cm with KPP capability, we have unearthed Reid, Brown, Keeffe, Witts, Grundy, Frost in the last seven years as legit AFL quality players. All six are 25 or under. GC and GWS would have that many AFL quality key position players under 26. I don't reckon many other teams would though.

So if WE need a tall then how do St Kilda and Melbourne pass on Wright?

With free agency I think the strategy that will emerge will be bank mids with your high picks, speculate on talls with lower picks and grab KPPs with free agency. Or grab half-developed, so-far-disappointing talls and 'fix' them. Look at Hawthorn, which I hate to do, they got Hale and Spangher, Lake, Gibson all on the trade market. They got Rioli, Hill, Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell, Shiels, Smith in the draft.

We got Grundy at 18 because talls were really on the nose for that draft. I personally think there's been an over-correction

 

[Schraderbrau]

We should focus more on winning premierships and less on building dynasty's imo.

Whilst A-grade key position forwards are the rarest commodities as draft prospects they are high risk. Furthermore the way the game has changed in recent seasons has diminished their value substantially. In spite of the heavier kp options likely at 5 this year I really hope we go for an outside mid with at least above average footskills.

Our kp stocks are reasonably good atm, especially in ruck and defence and Moore is coming and that is enough imo.

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

I think a team with about 10 elite superstars and good quality, skilled, fast, tough teammates in support is what gets a team the premiership.

Our superstars in the next 5 will be:
Pendlebury, Elliot, sidebottom freeman, scharenberg, Seedsman, Darcy Moore, Grundy, Adams, and Reid
Add to that our pick5. That's 11 elite superstars. Probably count Marley in that too. Likely broomhead too.
Then count in guys you expect to be a solid backbone like brown, toovey, Langdon, frost, keeffe, marsh, Kennedy, fasolo, witts, Armstrong, greenwood, and you have a really strong team.

What we desperately need are more quality dedicated forwards.
Need to lock Reid and Darcy to forward roles, don't want to see them experimented in the back line.
We got Elliot, fasolo, and then no depth at all. Needs to be fixed badly. Then we will be unstoppable.
I don't think Cloke will last much longer.

 

[Seedsfan]

Watched him live on 6 occasions and twice on ABC games. May well turn into a senior player, may not. Got a bit of work to do before he's even considered for a senior H&A game. Just who's spot do you see him taking?

He has been emergency 4 times and I think was held over once, he has already been considered. He probably has the most upside on our list when he fills out he will be a gun

 

[Tbone McGraw]

I think a team with about 10 elite superstars and good quality, skilled, fast, tough teammates in support is what gets a team the premiership.

Our superstars in the next 5 will be:
Pendlebury, Elliot, sidebottom freeman, scharenberg, Seedsman, Darcy Moore, Grundy, Adams, and Reid
Add to that our pick5. That's 11 elite superstars. Probably count Marley in that too. Likely broomhead too.
Then count in guys you expect to be a solid backbone like brown, toovey, Langdon, frost, keeffe, marsh, Kennedy, fasolo, witts, Armstrong, greenwood, and you have a really strong team.

What we desperately need are more quality dedicated forwards.
Need to lock Reid and Darcy to forward roles, don't want to see them experimented in the back line.
We got Elliot, fasolo, and then no depth at all. Needs to be fixed badly. Then we will be unstoppable.
I don't think Cloke will last much longer.

Cloke will be fine. He is the the best contested mark in the comp, which is an achievement in itself.

He is double teamed every game and gets generally s**t service. He just needs help from the other forwards. Looking at you Jesse White!! Also our service to him needs to improve.

If he was at the Hawks with their service, he would easily be a top 5 player in the game.

A fair run from the umps would help too

 

[iGNITER]

From the current list (w/ Moore)

FB - Frost
CHB - Reid
C - Pendlebury
CHF - Moore
FF - Cloke
R - Witts