Why are we turning on our own after one loss????

Jun 23, 2011
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I hate all the talk about "Winning when it matters" because it means when Geelong beat us in an elimination final, we will cop it for years.
 

checkraiseulite

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Jul 23, 2010
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Dangerfield would improve our side that much is obvious. He's young,fast, he can kick goals and he stands up when he's needed. He's better than everyone of our players other than Sam Mitchell, and he's probably more damaging as a "game breaker".

It's very possible that if Adelaide have an ordinary season he'll end up in melbourne. He's from the geelong area, and he'd most likely go to a club that he believes has a reasonable chance of success. Both teams would appear to have room in their cap to accommodate his salary. Geelong are a a lot more dangerous a proposition if you include dangerfield in their side.

We should be moving heaven and earth to get dangerfield to hawthorn. To improve our side and to prevent him from ending up at the cats.
 

Taskmaster

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Its not a matter of us turning on our own, its a matter of our players standing up when it counts. Yes I agree its only a H&A game, but its how we play against this mob every f..ken time we play them. Yep I know its a marathon and yes its going to happen, but why is it, our A graders turn into 5 year old girls when they play Geel??

The simple fact is we got beaten by a s**t game plan. Every time Geel got the bloody thing they would bomb it and we thought we would do the same. The difference = they actually marked won the contest, something we were not. We have this great ability to make duds like Hawkins and Rivers look like f..ken superstars.

In the end, yep they beat us, but I never feel confident against Geel and I hope we dont get them in a final this year. Why?? Because they are a group of players who will take last years PF final personally and do something about it and the sad fact of the matter is, we will let them...!!!!
 
Aug 16, 2009
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Let's all just stick our heads in the sand and pretend that it never happened.

Yes, it is one loss but the way we got beaten is what is most alarming. And the fact that we are not learning from previous mistakes against this mob is also concerning.

But yeah, nah it never happened.:rolleyes:
Hi Clarko :)

Hawks v Cats = Groundhog Day :drunk:
 

checkraiseulite

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No - games like in September are.

Losses like yesterday's will affect the mindset of our players. To think we don't have mental issues when playing geelong is to have your head in the sand.

Fact is we have a far better list and we should be handling the comfortably, but we keep beating ourselves.

The sooner we address that it's a problem and do something about it the better.
 

badgrill

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Losses like yesterday's will affect the mindset of our players. To think we don't have mental issues when playing geelong is to have your head in the sand.

Fact is we have a far better list and we should be handling the comfortably, but we keep beating ourselves.

The sooner we address that it's a problem and do something about it the better.
Do we have a far better list than the Cats, though? I'd question that (but is just my opinion).

My point was that maybe some players lift when there's more on the line (like in Finals for example). Not to say we don't have mental issues as well, but I think we all need to give Geelong (and Scott) some credit here - they haven't finished where they have consistently over the past 7 or 8 years by having an average list.
 

checkraiseulite

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They are essentially rebuilding at the moment but holding good form. So we have to pay credit to them there. They also find an extra gear against us while we go to water.

They are a far different team than they were in 08-11 when they had a better list than us.

From 2012-present I think we have a comfortably better list.
 
To use an analogy: there's only so much you can write about a wedding; there's heaps you can write about a marriage break-up.

For me, though, we're one of the leading clubs, the reigning premier no less, so when you're defeated it's instructive.

Then, of course, there's the whole other layer about our recent record vs the Cats. And whether we don't learn. Or their will gets them over the line every time. Or that tactically they're like a virus: always morphing and challenging the 'defences' we've built-up in new ways each time so they can fight the battle on the terms they want.

Hysteria aside, this type of loss for teams in our position, should make us stronger. The cynic would argue, however, that the wins also make the Cats stronger. In this case, recent history backs up this contention.
 
Apr 1, 2010
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Good thread. It's 1 game and we are flying at 4-1!

Sick of losing to them and many of our main guys playing poorly again but we are 4 and 1. There is a lot to play out.

1 positive of this loss is hopefully the smug arrogance sometimes seen on this board can die down a bit. We had a wake up call for the team yesterday and our supporters.

The arrogance I get annoyed at but when we lose and we turn into Richmond supporters and turn against our club. It's pissweak. I have issues with 4 of our senior players in the Geelong games but singling them out and writing them off as players is just crap.

Long way to go throughout this season and the team got a good reality check. They will hopefully figure out some things for the next time we face them. Onwards to Richmond.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
 
I don't know if we would have with Lake. Maybe Hawkins kicks 2 less goals and we go down by 1 goal. No point talking about what ifs, that belongs to Geelong supporters who still talk about the 2008 Grand Final and the 2013 Prelim.
Pretty much all his goals came from his ability to over power Cheney. We might still have lost as it changes the game completely but my point is that had Lake played Hawkins doesn't walk away with 5 goals from 8 scoring shots (most from in front), 10 marks and 2 or 3 Brownlow votes.

Simple fact is that we have lost what, 12 out of our last 13 games against Geelong and were very lucky that last years PF wasn't a loss too, so therefore holding on to that win is your prerogative
Fact is that they have our measure and all the " we win when it matters " crap is just that, pure bullshit
It doesn't mean we are eating our own at all, but if you are content on last night then that's up to you
Lake would not have made much difference at all, honestly we were very lucky to be so close
You can't have it both ways mate. Either we're allowed to look to the past to show that these games are always close tussles but we have won the 2 most important games out of the lot of them, OR we're only looking at this season in isolation and we're 4-1 to start the season playing without our 1st choice full back (Lake), experienced clearance player (Sewell) and replacement power forward (Schoenmakers). That is the simple fact.
 

MrFujiMoto

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Let's all just stick our heads in the sand and pretend that it never happened.

Yes, it is one loss but the way we got beaten is what is most alarming. And the fact that we are not learning from previous mistakes against this mob is also concerning.

But yeah, nah it never happened.:rolleyes:

Robust discussion around what we do yes, eat our own, not on. Premiers are not made in April. I think Clarko has the plan to beat Geelong but the players are not willing or able to implement it for long enough. We played it for a half or just over int he PF and won. We played it for about 20 minutes yesterday, played absolute shite for the rest of the match and still drew ahead int he last. We are alright, few things need sorting but that is why it is good to have this happen early on. Especially since we have the early wins. Early wins allow you to adjust and experiment without the pressure of NEEDING to win every week from here on out ala 2011 and 2012.

We need to win this week and next. If we don't then we are in trouble with the way we can manage players and game plans. If we end up losing both or one of those we start to lose flexibility with how we attack games as wins become too important.
 
The problem is that people started believing we're head and shoulders above everyone, and should therefore never lose.

Some nuff-nuffs (both here and in the media) were talking about "Will Hawthorn be undefeated?". After 3 games, FFS!

Personally, I believe the same thing I believed yesterday;
- we are one of the teams that could win it,
- there are other teams that could win,
- any one of these teams could beat any other on the day, it still comes down to performance on the day
- the home and away season is one season
- the finals season is another season
- if you make the Grand Final, everything that has gone before means nothing

Now, had we not beaten Geelong last year, I almost certainly would be with those gnashing teeth and wailing.

But, as we have already proved, conclusively, last year, that home and away wins mean nothing come finals, I really don't see why there should angst from any who have followed Hawthorn for more than 6 months. (Anyone who wants to say "We just got lucky" can go and get ****ed, seriously)

Our goal remains the same, top 4, and top 2 preferably. Yesterday is a setback in that it is 4 less premiership points in the bank.

When we start losing more than one every five, I'll happily joins the torch-brandishers.
 
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The problem is that people started believing we're head and shoulders above everyone, and should therefore never lose.

Some nuff-nuffs (both here and in the media) were talking about "Will Hawthorn be undefeated?". After 3 games, FFS!

Personally, I believe the same thing I believed yesterday;
- we are one of the teams that could win it,
- there are other teams that could win,
- any one of these teams could beat any other on the day, it still comes down to performance on the day
- the home and away season is one season
- the finals season is another season
- if you make the Grand Final, everything that has gone before means nothing

Now, had we not beaten Geelong last year, I almost certainly would be with those gnashing teeth and wailing.

But, as we have already proved, conclusively, last year, that home and away wins mean nothing come finals, I really don't see why there should angst from any who have followed Hawthorn for more than 6 months. (Anyone who wants to say "We just got lucky" can go and get ******, seriously)

Our goal remains the same, top 4, and top 2 preferably.

When we start losing more than one every five, I'll happily joins the torch-brandishers.

Agreed all you can say at the moment is hawks and cats look slightly better and can cover injury better than the others
 
Let's all just stick our heads in the sand and pretend that it never happened.

Yes, it is one loss but the way we got beaten is what is most alarming. And the fact that we are not learning from previous mistakes against this mob is also concerning.

But yeah, nah it never happened.:rolleyes:


Keep on complaining, CK, Because all your dreams will come true!

I wasn't happy with the loss, but the team was "off" yesterday. We played poorly all day, but it was only in the last 8 minutes where they killed us off.
We've got loads of improvement.

I also think we need Jeff Kennett's advice, it's his type of situation:
1. Drop Clarko to Box Hill for 2 weeks
2. Promote the Box Hill Coach (Mr Whatshisname) and let him take over
3. Blame someone else (the politician's creed).

Or we could get with club and prepare for next weeks game.

;)
 
Port Adelaide will beat them next week and if we beat Richmond by enough then we're a good chance of reclaiming top spot.

Just take a look at the results of Geelong games the week after playing us...

2009
beat Richmond (15th) 105-85
beat Adelaide (5th) 93-91

2010
lost to Freo (6th) 118-125
lost to Adelaide (11th) 63-74

2011
beat North (9th) 127-61
beat Saints (6th) 100-72

2012
lost to North (8th) 114-131
lost to West Coast (5th) 102-97

2013
beat North (10th) 112-108
beat Melbourne (17th) 98-30

...not all horrible or losses but they're usually well down on their regular output.
 

Goodo73

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I think the Geelong supporter I overheard discussing the game with his Hawthorn mate on the train ride home summed it up best "it was good to get the win but I'd much prefer the 2 wins Hawthorn have had over us".
THIS.

In today's Age there's a list of the Hawthorn-Geelong results since the 2008 GF. All except one was won by Geelong; the one, however, was the ONLY do-or-die knockout game in the whole list. Geelong can have the four points. It didn't do them any good last year.
 

flinchfree

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What is all this 'eat our own' BS?
It's a frickin Hawthorn Footy forum, where supporters get to have their own opinions posted so they can vent their frustrations and share their celebrations....Both are entirely OK!

And all this shite about the 'team' losing, is absolute crap.
You know, otherwise there would be no need for 'ins' and 'outs' each week, because individual players would never make the difference, just the jolly good ole team spirit.
Or maybe you think Clarko doesn't let individual players know when they're lagging and letting the team down?

The fact will always remain, great players who buy into a team first mentality will make great teams that win lots of games, and even some of the biggest ones. But not always. Sometimes someone else just takes it away from you because they stand up with their ability when the acid is harshest.
Players not up to it, for whatever reason, are not up to it. Some fail in small and big games alike, some simply have their game taken from them by opposition who are better and want it more.
I'm fairly certain no-one was having a go at Lewis for that one game last night, but a pattern of play confirmed in the harshest lights of AFL football.
I've always thought he was over-rated, but put together enough good games to keep the vultures at bay.
So now the vultures are circling again, and he either pulls his thumb out or slides down the bank that players without great speed or special skills eventually come up hard against.

Father time comes after all with his heavy millstone, and it doesn't matter what the numerical number is - you can get real old real fast depending on how you play the game. Lets hope Hodgey can fight him off as this season goes along.
 
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Ok then, just let me know which big games Jarryd Roughead has played well in?

I love the guy, but he is a sacred cow around here and I am wondering why?
Keep on complaining, CK, Because all your dreams will come true!

I wasn't happy with the loss, but the team was "off" yesterday. We played poorly all day, but it was only in the last 8 minutes where they killed us off.
We've got loads of improvement.

I also think we need Jeff Kennett's advice, it's his type of situation:
1. Drop Clarko to Box Hill for 2 weeks
2. Promote the Box Hill Coach (Mr Whatshisname) and let him take over
3. Blame someone else (the politician's creed).

Or we could get with club and prepare for next weeks game.

;)

No need for the sarcasm mate.:rolleyes:

Roughead's form in big games is a legitimate concern and if you deny that then more fool you. If somebody can give me an example of when he has performed well in a big game then I will retract my statement. He beats up on weaker teams and that is a fact. As I said, I love the guy but at some point he needs to put his hand up and steer the ship. Thus far in his career he has failed to deliver on that front and given that Franklin is now gone it is more important than ever that Roughead assume the mantle as leader of our forward line.
 
Oct 9, 2006
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Robust discussion around what we do yes, eat our own, not on. Premiers are not made in April. I think Clarko has the plan to beat Geelong but the players are not willing or able to implement it for long enough. We played it for a half or just over int he PF and won. We played it for about 20 minutes yesterday, played absolute shite for the rest of the match and still drew ahead int he last. We are alright, few things need sorting but that is why it is good to have this happen early on. Especially since we have the early wins. Early wins allow you to adjust and experiment without the pressure of NEEDING to win every week from here on out ala 2011 and 2012.

We need to win this week and next. If we don't then we are in trouble with the way we can manage players and game plans. If we end up losing both or one of those we start to lose flexibility with how we attack games as wins become too important.


I'm sorry, where have I "eaten my own?"

I have raised a reasonable point about one of our key players and his form in big games. I have also invited anybody that wants to to put forward a counter argument to my point to do so.

So far, I am still waiting for that counter argument.

As for Clarko having a "plan" to beat Geelong, I am sure he does. The problem is that it seems to be the same plan that he has had since 2008 and it has worked once. Once in 13 (and even that game could have easily gone the other way). Perhaps he needs to revisit the plan. What is that saying about doing the same thing repeatedly yet expecting a different result? And what was dished up yesterday was no different to what we have seen against Geelong for the last 6 seasons.
 
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