Why aren't Shorten and the ALP doing better now?

[Tulip]

Pleasant and affable doesn't cut it in the adversarial environment that is politics. Particularly when you have a PM who is a pathological liar and who will plumb the depths to retain office. Labor needs a Keating like political street fighter in the Parliament and someone in the administration who will make the calls on the Liarberals lies and deceit which are commonly put out there via advertising and public relations.

I reckon you covered the fact that Liberals are liars when you said that they lied.

Tony Abbott was as good a street fighter as any have ever been in opposition, and look at the mess he is now.

Whilst Labor needs someone with a bit of personality, a far bigger priority is finding someone who actually knows what the party stands for and is willing to tell us.

I voted Coalition last Federal election, but my vote is very much up in the air this time around.

Loathe this current government as we all do, however, the one thing that can be said for them is that they know what their priority is - getting the economy to surplus. The way they are getting there is controversial, but it almost becomes acceptable to the masses when you have the dour faced wet rag standing opposite Abbott and drawling "we're very concerned with the cuts to X, Y, Z".

Unless Labor had a scheme in place to keep Abbott in for the election - though do their leaders strike you as intelligent enough to construct one - they have been derelict in their duty to properly scrutinise the government. Pedestrian TV, Junkee and the ABC can't be the only ones doing it - especially when you consider how silly these publications - regrettably in the case of the latter - have become.

I really don't want to vote for the Liberals again, and if Labor doesn't get its act together I'll probably go with a minority group like the one led by Fiona Patten. Having said that, though, I'm a bit miffed by the idea that Labor's grand plan is taxing superannuation whilst knocking back reductions to things like foreign aid. The money has to be saved somewhere, and it makes me uncomfortable to think that years worth of saving from members of the community with some economic sense may be removed from them because they've yet to spend it. Especially when you consider that you can't put a time frame on an individuals life, and that people need their savings and deserve their savings to help validate their life's work and allow them to live comfortably as they age should they have the means to do it.

Its lazy politics, and its s**t politics. Almost as s**t as deregulation.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

This bloke puts me to sleep. Watching the guy as opposition leader, when you're meant to be a bit dogged and have some creative license like Rudd/Abbott both did well, is just sad.

The sooner Tanya, or anyone really, takes over - the better for the party.

Agree. Bill Shorten has ZERO personality. He might be the most fantastic ideas man on earth and I know that basing your choice of politics based on personality rather than policy is fraught with danger, but as a frontman he absolutely stinks.

There seems to be nothing to him at all. Him and Tone are both like Thunderbird puppets doing the marionette shuffle while we the voters look on in puzzlement.

 

[noddy]

Sadly i agree with the above two posters in that Bill is falling well short of the mark in his presentation & personality, as Maggie said at least we still have Abbott as PM so who knows the next election could see the ALP fall over the line due largely to our boy Tones.

Maybe Bill will come to realize that he himself is just not up to the job as leader & resign for the good of the country but that then leads to finding someone better.

 

[madmug]

People agree that we need to tighten up on budget expenditure. Its how we do it which is the argument.

The word 'fairness' has been overused & torn to shreds.

I think a telling comment is the fact that Tone wont touch super deductions at the top end, even though deductions for the 'rich' will soon cost the budget more than the aged care pension itself.

'Fairness', go figure!

 

[Qsaint]

Sadly i agree with the above two posters in that Bill is falling well short of the mark in his presentation & personality, as Maggie said at least we still have Abbott as PM so who knows the next election could see the ALP fall over the line due largely to our boy Tones.

Maybe Bill will come to realize that he himself is just not up to the job as leader & resign for the good of the country but that then leads to finding someone better.

Dont think so I see the alp wants to bring back a full carbon trading scheme, when no one else has one on the planet

What I can see happening is a bit like the British election. The alp will get a big swing because of Tones that is probably right, but it will be mainly in the seats they already have, those less well off. The Green policy might hold albenese and pibersek etc but even they fell to the greens it doesnt matter because they would mostly vote block with the ALP anyway.

But Tones will hold on to middle class swing seats because bill the knife will frighten them away, he does not appeal to 'working families' and is too associated with the massive cluster F that was the Gillard/Rudd PM ship

 

[ralphmalph]

I'm a bit miffed by the idea that Labor's grand plan is taxing superannuation whilst knocking back reductions to things like foreign aid. The money has to be saved somewhere, and it makes me uncomfortable to think that years worth of saving from members of the community with some economic sense may be removed from them because they've yet to spend it. Especially when you consider that you can't put a time frame on an individuals life, and that people need their savings and deserve their savings to help validate their life's work and allow them to live comfortably as they age should they have the means to do it.

Its lazy politics, and its s**t politics. Almost as s**t as deregulation.

The policy as far as I can tell, will affect people who are in the pension phase of super ie drawing down on it, currently taking that income tax free, with no upper limit. As I understand it, earnings on the capital in the fund are tax free too, with no upper limit.

The policy would impose a 15% tax on income over $75k. The example they use is someone with $1.8M in super earning 5% on that, hence receiving $90k income.

They would pay 15% on the $15k while still getting $75k tax free leaving a total after tax of $87,750.

But if they don't take more than $75k, as I understand it, they don't pay any tax at all on their super.

And you reckon that makes you uncomfortable?

 

[AM]

I reckon you covered the fact that Liberals are liars when you said that they lied.

Tony Abbott was as good a street fighter as any have ever been in opposition, and look at the mess he is now.

Whilst Labor needs someone with a bit of personality, a far bigger priority is finding someone who actually knows what the party stands for and is willing to tell us.

I voted Coalition last Federal election, but my vote is very much up in the air this time around.

Loathe this current government as we all do, however, the one thing that can be said for them is that they know what their priority is - getting the economy to surplus. The way they are getting there is controversial, but it almost becomes acceptable to the masses when you have the dour faced wet rag standing opposite Abbott and drawling "we're very concerned with the cuts to X, Y, Z".

Unless Labor had a scheme in place to keep Abbott in for the election - though do their leaders strike you as intelligent enough to construct one - they have been derelict in their duty to properly scrutinise the government. Pedestrian TV, Junkee and the ABC can't be the only ones doing it - especially when you consider how silly these publications - regrettably in the case of the latter - have become.

I really don't want to vote for the Liberals again, and if Labor doesn't get its act together I'll probably go with a minority group like the one led by Fiona Patten. Having said that, though, I'm a bit miffed by the idea that Labor's grand plan is taxing superannuation whilst knocking back reductions to things like foreign aid. The money has to be saved somewhere, and it makes me uncomfortable to think that years worth of saving from members of the community with some economic sense may be removed from them because they've yet to spend it. Especially when you consider that you can't put a time frame on an individuals life, and that people need their savings and deserve their savings to help validate their life's work and allow them to live comfortably as they age should they have the means to do it.

Its lazy politics, and its s**t politics. Almost as s**t as deregulation.

Good read.

That said, for a government whose priority is to return to surplus they'd get an 'F'. Not only have they already blown out debt there is barely an economic commentator who has said other than this budget will do little to redress the matter. Even Nikki Savva, Costello's PR person, who is as right wing as they come. Of course our debt to GDP ratio has always been manageable. Debt crisis was another furphy visited on the populace.

What is working in the great deceivers favour at present is the terrorism issue and the skillful way he's playing it. It's diverting attention from other significant issues.

I certainly wouldn't write off the Libs as Labor is way less skillful and less vigorous at political campaigning. Labor has the capacity to shoot themselves in the foot. Even more importantly the average voter either has the political attention span of a gnat, is entirely ambivalent, or is just plain dumb. All three in many cases.

 

[Subprime]

The policy as far as I can tell, will affect people who are in the pension phase of super ie drawing down on it, currently taking that income tax free, with no upper limit. As I understand it, earnings on the capital in the fund are tax free too, with no upper limit.

The policy would impose a 15% tax on income over $75k. The example they use is someone with $1.8M in super earning 5% on that, hence receiving $90k income.

They would pay 15% on the $15k while still getting $75k tax free leaving a total after tax of $87,750.

But if they don't take more than $75k, as I understand it, they don't pay any tax at all on their super.

And you reckon that makes you uncomfortable?

At the moment inflation is benign and for a lot of people 5% on $1.8m seems a long way off. However inflation and returns required may increase substantially so that the comfort level disappears fairly quickly. When bracket creep is considered as well as the real return it just gets worse.

These are long term investments so making assumptions that stretch out 40, 50 or 60 years or more based on today's benign inflation is not something that comforts me.

 

[Todman]

Agree. Bill Shorten has ZERO personality. He might be the most fantastic ideas man on earth and I know that basing your choice of politics based on personality rather than policy is fraught with danger, but as a frontman he absolutely stinks.

There seems to be nothing to him at all. Him and Tone are both like Thunderbird puppets doing the marionette shuffle while we the voters look on in puzzlement.

The difference is conservatives know what Tony should stand for whereas progressives don't know what bill stands for.

 

[Xsess]

Abbott will win with his leg in the air next election. Shorten hasn't differentiated himself one iota from the Rudd Gillard disaster. He is the promise of open borders, despotic union influence and corruption, a return of the wealth redistribution scheme previously known as the carbon tax... and ultimately economic armageddon.

 

[Todman]

Unless Labor had a scheme in place to keep Abbott in for the election - though do their leaders strike you as intelligent enough to construct one - they have been derelict in their duty to properly scrutinise the government. Pedestrian TV, Junkee and the ABC can't be the only ones doing it - especially when you consider how silly these publications - regrettably in the case of the latter - have become.

Quite a few of us now believe that Bill is terminal and the Government probably believes it as well. Unlike the Rudd Government that couldn't resist the knock out blow to Nelson and Turnbull the coalition will allow him to stay in place.

 

[ralphmalph]

At the moment inflation is benign and for a lot of people 5% on $1.8m seems a long way off. However inflation and returns required may increase substantially so that the comfort level disappears fairly quickly. When bracket creep is considered as well as the real return it just gets worse.

These are long term investments so making assumptions that stretch out 40, 50 or 60 years or more based on today's benign inflation is not something that comforts me.

Currently people with super in the pension phase pay no tax on their super. None, regardless of whether they get $40k or $800k per annum.

The proposed policy would tax the super (in pension phase) at 15% but only if earnings are over $75k.

How is this uncomfortable or unfair? More to the point, why should it be completely tax free? And if you are really concerned about the $75k tax free threshold, it could be indexed at a later date.

 

[ralphmalph]

The difference is conservatives know what Tony should stand for whereas progressives don't know what bill stands for.

Really? Can you tell the rest of Australia what Tony stands for?

Edit - just noticed you refer to what Tony "should" stand for. I have no doubt conservatives think they know what he should stand for but I don't know what he actually stands for.

 

[Present Not Past]

Well you couldn't have got more vanilla than John Howard in 1996 - well he just waited until Keating become so unpopular and just waltzed into the Lodge.

 

[rodney hoo]

Really? Can you tell the rest of Australia what Tony stands for?

Tony stands for Tony & does more backflips than an Olympic diver as long as he can stay in power. That said Shorten does not enthuse any body no matter how hard he try's, he also has not gone after the liberals, they have chopped and changed, wasted money and not a word. Our whole electoral system is beyond its use by date and that is why we have the choice between Abbotts or Shorten.

 

[Maggie5]

He is def a poor speaker and doesn't come across as sincere however, I am more concerned about the policies they release. Hopefully not too ambitious so that they can keep any promises made. Not so concerned about a surplus as long as there is not a blow out.

Not sure who would make a better leader. At various times I have thought - Bowen, then after his blunder Albanese but changed my mind again.

For me I look forward to what the Greens will look like come election time.

If Libs can't get it together soon we will have another government by default.

 

[Gough]

He is def a poor speaker and doesn't come across as sincere however, I am more concerned about the policies they release. Hopefully not too ambitious so that they can keep any promises made. Not so concerned about a surplus as long as there is not a blow out.

Not sure who would make a better leader. At various times I have thought - Bowen, then after his blunder Albanese but changed my mind again.

For me I look forward to what the Greens will look like come election time.

If Libs can't get it together soon we will have another government by default.

Still squibbing it on the environment, and refugee, that will be when we see whether they can win back Green voters.

 

[pazza]

Reckon Shorten is at very short odds at being next PM.

Why?

Because he calls it like it is. He delivers his policies without pomp and ceremony but with a straight bat.

 

[Qsaint]

He is def a poor speaker and doesn't come across as sincere however, I am more concerned about the policies they release. Hopefully not too ambitious so that they can keep any promises made. Not so concerned about a surplus as long as there is not a blow out.

Not sure who would make a better leader. At various times I have thought - Bowen, then after his blunder Albanese but changed my mind again.

For me I look forward to what the Greens will look like come election time.

If Libs can't get it together soon we will have another government by default.

There is the problem is if the go to left to compete with the Greens they will lose the middle

 

[Qsaint]

Reckon Shorten is at very short odds at being next PM.

Why?

Because he calls it like it is. He delivers his policies without pomp and ceremony but with a straight bat.

And this is based on a vibe?

he has never delivered anything, well other than a knife

 

[Qsaint]

Still squibbing it on the environment, and refugee, that will be when we see whether they can win back Green voters.

And you want them to do this, why?

 

[Gough]

There is the problem is if the go to left to compete with the Greens they will lose the middle

It can work, Howard lifted the One Nation playbook, and the nation loved him for it.

 

[Gough]

And you want them to do this, why?

I want to see if they can still lay claim to being the party of choice for progressive Australia.

 

[pazza]

And this is based on a vibe?

he has never delivered anything, well other than a knife

Based on his Budget reply speech and his attitudes on various matters such as domestic violence (which is an important issue not given a lot of credence in Canberra, but, harms more people than even terrorism..to the point where it is described as domestic terrorism) and the vision for the future he outlined in the speech.

He also delivered the NDIS, a fact forgotten by the muppets in the MSM and the incompetent members of the Government from the PM down.

 

[Qsaint]

Based on his Budget reply speech and his attitudes on various matters such as domestic violence (which is an important issue not given a lot of credence in Canberra, but, harms more people than even terrorism..to the point where it is described as domestic terrorism) and the vision for the future he outlined in the speech.

He also delivered the NDIS, a fact forgotten by the muppets in the MSM and the incompetent members of the Government from the PM down.

Come on Pazza the NDIS was never delivered it still isnt funded passed a few pilots