Israel, Palestine, and everything related

[strauchnyy]

Also, the key point here is that no matter what you, me or any other armchair commentator thinks... Israel is here to stay. Any step forward towards peace, starts with recognising this, and recognising Israel's right to exist.

If you (or hamas don't) the cycle of violence continues.

 

[The Coup]

You say peace is dependent on Israel's actions. The truth is actually a flip of 180 degrees. It is ENTIRELY dependent on Hamas and the Palestinians. Hamas don't recognise Israel's rights to exist. Every single problem starts at this point. How can there be any solution if one side does not recognise the other's right to exist.

I met an Israeli last night, we inevitably got stuck into the mid/east conflict, and I asked him - why don't you just go in there and go after every single hamas terrorist and topple their whole regime? I was slightly surprised with his answer.. he looked at me, and said - because that would cost Israel over 500 lives, and we value the lives of those 18-21 year olds too much to go into war with the terrorists'. On the other side, you have palestinians naming streets after suicide bombers, kids shows with kids characters demonizing jews and instructing them to be martyrs... That is the difference in their mentality.

It all goes back to Hamas/Pals want Israelis dead, Israelis want to live.

I believe in a 2 state solution, and majority of Israelis do too. Its just that the palestinians don't. That is the problem.

Its the nature of a good long term resistance campaign: outbreed the oppressors so that every one of their lives is worth more than ten of yours. Eventually reach a tipping point.

Hamas is representative of the Palestinian people for better or worse. If you want to defeat Hamas you first need to make them unrepresentative of the Palestinian people. A group like Hamas can only exist in extreme poverty and under extreme hardship. Increase their quality of life and they will get rid of Hamas for you.

 

[Lester Burnham]

Also, the key point here is that no matter what you, me or any other armchair commentator thinks... Israel is here to stay. Any step forward towards peace, starts with recognising this, and recognising Israel's right to exist.

If you (or hamas don't) the cycle of violence continues.

Israel also needs to recognise Palestine's right to exist. Likud does not.

Ideally, Israel would become a secular state that has equal rights for all its citizens but for a state founded by Zionists that has gone even further towards Jewish nationalism this is an unrealistic option.

 

[Roylion]

The one thing you can never answer is why do you think there isHamas , in the first place.

Well.. Hamas was founded in 1987 as an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood. Hamas was founded to establish an Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

What it means is occupied territory can be taken up as long as your an Israeli not a Palestinian, yes go on, tell me all people in the region can live where they like. For heavens sake , rubbish.Tell me that Israel is such a free place whjere the governments made up of every type there possibly can be.

Have you been to Israel? I was there eight months ago, my second visit. I spent the majority of my time in Jerusalem, although I did visit the West Bank, the Golan Heights, the Dead Sea area, Tel Aviv and Galilee. During my time there I spoke to many Israelis and also quite a few Arab citizens. I even met a Palestinian Arab whose family lived in Melbourne and who was visiting because he also had a business in one of the marketplaces in Jerusalem.

It may interest you to know that about 20% of Israel's population is Palestinian Arab. That number is rising. Many Israelis I spoke to support a two state solution. What was surprising is quite a few Palestinian Arabs I spoke to (please note - not all) do not support an Palestinian state and if one was established in the West Bank they would not move there. They preferred living in a democratic country and definitely did not agree with Hamas' ideal of establishing an Islamic state as part of Palestine.

About 10% of Israel's parliamentary members are Arab.

Forget religious arguments, forget about Hamas and its doctrine on Israel and Islam , I don't give a s**t, they are down trodden and if Indonesia invaded my state and pushed me into the desert to live in a small space like a piece of crap ,

Arab Palestinians are not as downtrodden in Israel as some make out. Yeah, sure there are some poor Arab residents of Israel and they tend to live in enclaves in areas such as East Jerusalem. There are also at times abuses of rights and without doubt there is some economic inequality between Arabs and Jews.

However from my own observations, I tend to agree with Ishmael Khaldi's statement that:

"Like America, Israeli society is far from perfect, but let us deal honestly. By any yardstick you choose – educational opportunity, economic development, women and gay's rights, freedom of speech and assembly, legislative representation – Israel's minorities fare far better than any other country in the Middle East." He also said that he lived in one of the most culturally diversified societies and that Israel was the only true democracy in the Middle East.

Khaldi is an Arab Muslim and one of the first high ranking Muslims in Israel's foreign service.

In 2009, the Israeli Arab Journalist Khaled Abu Toameh said that, while there are serious problems facing the Arab sector in Israel, but... "if I were given the choice, I would rather live in Israel as a second class citizen than as a first class citizen in Cairo, Gaza, Amman or Ramallah."

Israels invasion of Palestine created Hamas.

Israel wasn't created until 1948. They defeated Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and Iraq in 1948 and Egypt again in 1956 (where Israel occupied the Egyptian Gaza Strip). In 1967 Israel defeated Egypt, Syria and Jordan (when Jordan's territory on the west bank of the Jordan River was occupied and Syria's Golan Heights was also occupied) and Egypt and Syria in 1974.

Jordan annexed the West Bank in 1950 and granted all Palestinian Arabs in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, Jordanian citizenship. Jordan lost the West Bank in 1967, but still claimed the territory until 1988 as Jordanian territory and its occupants as Jordanian citizens. In 1988 Jordan ended West Bank representation in the Jordanian Parliament, and severed all administrative and legal ties with the West Bank. That also involved stripping West Bank Palestinians of Jordanian citizenship. The PLO then assumed responsibility as the Provisional Government of Palestine and an independent state of Palestine with Jerusalem as it's capital, (israel also claims Jerusalem as its capital) was declared by the PLO in November 1988.

 

[The Coup]

I think those of us on the Palestinian side of this conflict need to remember and be cautious of not demonising Jews in the process.

I've got Jewish mates (hard to grow up in Melbourne without knowing a few) who are dual citizens of Israel. They didn't serve in the military cause they don't believe in it, they want a Palestinian state, they don't like the apartheid politics and any news coming out of Gaza severely depresses them. These are people that spend time in Israel regularly and have family there. Overall they dislike orthodox Jews much more than they dislike Muslims or Arabs.

But the thing is, I have other mates who will think nothing to drop a 'bloody Jews' into their criticism of Israel (in private of course) which I find ludicrous. If there's one way to ush the secular and reformist Jews away from the Palestinian cause, it's to group all Jews together and make dehumanising comments about them. Jewish people as a whole tend to have a bit of an acquired defense mechanism honed through thousands of years of persecution, and they tend to stick together when the Gentiles start raising the pitchforks.

If you believe in the right of all people in the region to have self determination, its important not to use the Palestinian cause as an excuse to go Jew bashing - because even if you don't care about offending Jews, you're hurting the Palestinians a lot by making it a race issue rather than a human rights issue.

 

[JoondalupJ]

LOL

ahhh yes.. 'defending' .. the typical terrorist apologist rhetoric.

So you classify defending as intentionally firing rockets at civilians, kidnapping innocent children, building tunnels to infiltrate civilian locations to commit murder and suicide bombing cafes.

Not quite sure how this 'defends' the Palestinians... especially when we all know that Israel IS going to respond with air strikes.

Not sure what you're smoking but I want some!



Sure.. America's actions can piss people off but to blame that (and Israel) as the sole reason why the area is so f*cked up is just about the dumbest tripe i've ever heard.

The left are hilarious.

The idea that the formation of Israel is the sole reason why you have religious crazed nutjobs beheading people around the world is just about as insane as it gets

Also, the key point here is that no matter what you, me or any other armchair commentator thinks... Israel is here to stay. Any step forward towards peace, starts with recognising this, and recognising Israel's right to exist.

If you (or hamas don't) the cycle of violence continues.

Let me start by saying i disagree with Israel's settlement expansion in the West Bank. Because I believe in a 2 state solution (even though the Palestinians don't. No, their thirst for blood and their charter calls for the death of all Jews, Christians and Israelis, and basically all non muslims. Same as IS).

But you seem to lack the important historic events that the surrounding Arab countries all ganged up and invaded Israel several occasions TO WIPE THEM OFF THE MAP, and LOST. Then cry about lost land.

THEN Israel hand back land (for instance) to Egypt for peace -> evidencing that Israel WILL give land for peace. Too bad the Palestinians/Hamas don't want it.

Let's just reaffirm the important foundation of the situation again shall we champ.

Hamas want Israel (and all non muslims) dead. period. NOT peace with Israel.



Lulz again. This is my favourite part of your post.

So basically we can imply that you support Hamas (but are against IS for some reason? anyway..) which means you support what they are doing. Which is basically summed up with:

step 1 - Commit act of terrorism against civilian population.
step 2 - hide amongst own civilian population and wait for Israeli response
step 3 - Make sure cameras are rolling (but not when when Hamas fire rockets, if that happens threaten journalists with violence)
step 4- ensure as many women and children are amongst the weapons stash to ensure maximum casualties (which shouldnt matter because we all know how much they love martydom).
step 5 - Declare Israel/US and the west (hey that's us!) the aggressors
step 6 - dance in the blood of their own people, and watch as ignorant idiots around the world (you for example) critisize Israel whilst they are given more aid (from Israel and the world) to turn into further terrorist resources (terror tunnels)
step 7 - repeat (whilst brainwashing children to become future 'martyrs') and celebrate in the streets by handing out candy when a terrorist is successful in killing the Israelis (eg the 3 teenagers a few months ago) or west (after 9/11)

Oh and they like to shoot any protesters who oppose them:

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/2...ving-gazans-a-day-after-executing-protesters/

You support this filth. Unbelievable.

You criticize Israel, fair enough.. critisize them for individual things they have done wrong. I don't care. But if you support a terrorist organisation thats number 1 priority is the extermination of every non-muslim, then you are beyond help.



Israel come to the party? what like when they offered something like 96% of land Arafat demanded and rejected? or how they let go 100s of prisoners (many of whom had orchastrated suicide bombings) in return for Gilad Shalit. Or do you mean more recently.. like how Hamas BROKE EVERY CEASEFIRE in the recent conflict.

How would you go about negotiating with a terrorist organisation whose sole purpose is to kill you and wipe you off the map (go read their charter).

It's cute how you think Hamas want their state, like they would co-exist with Israel (and their Neighbours). Not even Egypt will support them.

Maybe some Palestinians in gaza want their state, but their leaders don't. that's a fact.



What are you talking about. There are arabs and non-jews living all over Israel.


Also, you seem to have forgotten the last time Israel gave up land to the Palestinians (WHICH IS THE FIRST TIME ANYONE HAS GIVEN LAND TO PALESTINIANS, EVER), they elected a terrorist organisation, spent just about all their resources building a terrorist base (8000 tonnes of cement into terror tunnels) at the expense of their people, and shot 18,000 rockets aimed at Israeli civilians.

Yes -these are the good guys Israel should give more land to.

Your plan to give Palestinians more land works if Palestinians want peace. But they (by the leaders they elect) do not.



Hamas = IS = Taliban = Boko Haram.

They are all reigious crazed terrorists fighting the secular and anyone who is not muslim.

For all the tripe you've served up in your post, I actually agree with your line "radical Islam will fight the West for 100 hundred years". Maybe there is a small amount of sense in you...



Yes probably.

And it is Israel on the front door step trying to deal with these types of radicals on a DAILY basis.

If the West and IS go into all out war.. who do you think is going to be on our side? Israel or Hamas? hmmmm



lol wut?

So when Hamas radicalised terrorist fires a rocket from civilian house (with the intention of causing murder of other civilians), then does it again and again, then hides his stash in the house (consequently making it a milatary target according to international law) and tells civilians to stay in the house to protect the weapons stash after Israeli warnings (texts, leaflets) to leave, and the house gets blown up (as it should to stop rocket fire and to protect its OWN civilian population) Israel are the terrorists? What the actual f*ck are you on about?

I suppose you think Israel should just let rockets hit their country? Let the radicalised muslim terrorist threat grow on their doorstep?



I agree that this is what SHOULD happen. But you're assuming that Hamas/Palestinians are a peaceful loving group that want to live side by side with Israel.

They rejected Israel in 1948, and Hamas's charter STILL rejects them, and calls for the death. It actually calls for them to be wiped out.

I suppose if you have some ISIS extremist trying to kill you, you would then give them a gun and let them in your house? This is your logic.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the solution must start with the Palestinians denouncing Hamas and terrorism altogether. Only then, there can be a 2 state solution similar to that of the 67 borders.



Agree, that using religion as a justification to kill is wrong. But only your mates are the ones doing it! Hamas want every non-muslim dead! that's probably you included.

Israel are not killing or trying to kill every single non jew...

Overall - I fully expect you to come back at me with typical leftist rehotric without any supporting evidence (big evil israel commiting genocide! Apratheid! Genocide! kill! blood!) to some how justify Israel are 100% evil and the poor Hamas are just 'defending' themselves. But I don't care. I think you are beyond sensible debate.

So good luck to you!

What you've said is exactly why I answer back , you say the same stuff. I'm not a lefty man. I know right from wrong though .

There is more to Israel than just coming back to so called home. There is something else. Have a think on that . Also Israel have used terrorism in the same way except they kill more people.
One thing I would say , I wouldn't mind Israel sending their army into Syria and Iraq and slaughter ISIS, that would be great, they probably could because they are experts at killing.
As far as whose side I'd have them on , well it'd be ours of course I'm not traitor or whatever you think to our western ways , but that is NOTHING to do with what the state of Israel has created in the middle east , death and misery and murder and unhappiness and the deaths of people from other nations all over the world. It is unfair it is wrong and they should have done it differently 70 years ago. You can't see the inside picture of the argument, it was wrong when it happened and its still wrong , and they expand and occupy onward and onward, STILL! ANY CHANCE YOU MAY SEE MY POINT . mAYBE NOT?

You say peace is dependent on Israel's actions. The truth is actually a flip of 180 degrees. It is ENTIRELY dependent on Hamas and the Palestinians. Hamas don't recognise Israel's rights to exist. Every single problem starts at this point. How can there be any solution if one side does not recognise the other's right to exist.

I met an Israeli last night, we inevitably got stuck into the mid/east conflict, and I asked him - why don't you just go in there and go after every single hamas terrorist and topple their whole regime? I was slightly surprised with his answer.. he looked at me, and said - because that would cost Israel over 500 lives, and we value the lives of those 18-21 year olds too much to go into war with the terrorists'. On the other side, you have palestinians naming streets after suicide bombers, kids shows with kids characters demonizing jews and instructing them to be martyrs... That is the difference in their mentality.

It all goes back to Hamas/Pals want Israelis dead, Israelis want to live.

I believe in a 2 state solution, and majority of Israelis do too. Its just that the palestinians don't. That is the problem.

Well.. Hamas was founded in 1987 as an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood. Hamas was founded to establish an Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.



Have you been to Israel? I was there eight months ago, my second visit. I spent the majority of my time in Jerusalem, although I did visit the West Bank, the Golan Heights, the Dead Sea area, Tel Aviv and Galilee. During my time there I spoke to many Israelis and also quite a few Arab citizens. I even met a Palestinian Arab whose family lived in Melbourne and who was visiting because he also had a business in one of the marketplaces in Jerusalem.

It may interest you to know that about 20% of Israel's population is Palestinian Arab. That number is rising. Many Israelis I spoke to support a two state solution. What was surprising is quite a few Palestinian Arabs I spoke to (please note - not all) do not support an Palestinian state and if one was established in the West Bank they would not move there. They preferred living in a democratic country and definitely did not agree with Hamas' ideal of establishing an Islamic state as part of Palestine.

About 10% of Israel's parliamentary members are Arab.



Arab Palestinians are not as downtrodden in Israel as some make out. Yeah, sure there are some poor Arab residents of Israel and they tend to live in enclaves in areas such as East Jerusalem. There are also at times abuses of rights and without doubt there is some economic inequality between Arabs and Jews.

However from my own observations, I tend to agree with Ishmael Khaldi's statement that:

"Like America, Israeli society is far from perfect, but let us deal honestly. By any yardstick you choose – educational opportunity, economic development, women and gay's rights, freedom of speech and assembly, legislative representation – Israel's minorities fare far better than any other country in the Middle East." He also said that he lived in one of the most culturally diversified societies and that Israel was the only true democracy in the Middle East.

Khaldi is an Arab Muslim and one of the first high ranking Muslims in Israel's foreign service.

In 2009, the Israeli Arab Journalist Khaled Abu Toameh said that, while there are serious problems facing the Arab sector in Israel, but... "if I were given the choice, I would rather live in Israel as a second class citizen than as a first class citizen in Cairo, Gaza, Amman or Ramallah."



Israel wasn't created until 1948. They defeated Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and Iraq in 1948 and Egypt again in 1956 (where Israel occupied the Egyptian Gaza Strip). In 1967 Israel defeated Egypt, Syria and Jordan (when Jordan's territory on the west bank of the Jordan River was occupied and Syria's Golan Heights was also occupied) and Egypt and Syria in 1974.

Jordan annexed the West Bank in 1950 and granted all Palestinian Arabs in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, Jordanian citizenship. Jordan lost the West Bank in 1967, but still claimed the territory until 1988 as Jordanian territory and its occupants as Jordanian citizens. In 1988 Jordan ended West Bank representation in the Jordanian Parliament, and severed all administrative and legal ties with the West Bank. That also involved stripping West Bank Palestinians of Jordanian citizenship. The PLO then assumed responsibility as the Provisional Government of Palestine and an independent state of Palestine with Jerusalem as it's capital, (israel also claims Jerusalem as its capital) was declared by the PLO in November 1988.

You seem to miss the point every time, you fail to see my basic argument. Each time you comment on what Israel is and what Hamas is or does and what Jordan did or didn't do , who Isis are like or unlike , you just miss a whole big picture and in doing so you fail totally to see what I am saying. As a neutral totally uninvolved person in this conflict in the whole of the middle east logic hits you between the eyes.
I have never said any Islamic terrorism is good , what I've said is why do we have iot at all. What do they fear and hate to make them who or where ever they are do what they do , and in the name of a billion different thoughts and beliefs. Who can condone killing civilians , no body , not even Muslims though some of them do it inthe name of their religion, some Jews go to the middle east to settle in the name of theior religion and consequently bomb civilians by the dozen after some Muslim fighters fire rockets. Mind you the result on Gaza is a thousand times more devastatiing.

So other Muslim conflicts are there? Tough , that's their mix of tribes and nations and they have done it forever. I am not talking about anything along those lines.
I'll say this again , try not to throw your own inner ideas at it. Just listen to what I say once more and see if you can get my point , which by the way is not to argue with you about things we safely here in Australia can carry on about.

Here goes. Israel , was /is a nation founded on the right to return. These people had no right to return , those lands were not theirs for 2 thousand years.
It is not theirs now, morally and in my mind legally. Then again probably the Apaches (PALESTINIANS) could be still fighting for land???? See?

America took over the native lands saying we're here we are taking it.The Zionists said we are coming back to get what is ours , well it was not theirs for centuries and they came under false pretences because the rest of the world had to do something about the Jews and their needing a new home ,
well here's the rub, I reckon there is more to Israel and its massive American backing , than just " god gave this land to me".

It could be a mini America in the ME? It could be that there is a massive mining mineral possibility , on the coast Gaza??? Mini America is a powerful friendly base in or near all Americas oil feilds?

Why American and Australian Jews go back to live there in that danger?????? Its got me? Well it suggests that many are there because of their religion. So that is still an ARGUMENT, it is not their land, and they have invaded and stolen and attacked and expanded there , and even onto the Golan heights that is not their land!
Now I could go on forever , but here is the simple point. If I've confused you.
Israel was a creation that was morally and legally unfair and WRONG. The people that suffered were and are infuriated , some to the point of terrorism.
And since its formation the ME and many other parts of the world have suffered from terrorism and death so beyond the original problem that its almost lost as to who is right wrong or otherwise. That's why, we, taking sides is bullshit. WE DON'T KNOW WHOSE SIDE TO BE ON EXCEPT BIG BROTHER AMERICA SAYS WE ARE ALLIES, YOU COME FOR THE RIDE, WHICH WE HAVE.

If the Jewish problem was solved in a different way and if they could have made home somewhere else..... and it was offered in different parts of the world . Well I would think that the ME nightmare we hear about every day maybe a speck in terms of how massive it is now.

Israel , not Judaism, Zionists not Judaism , has caused the world to be ten times stuffed up as it would be , if say the Israelis formed a state inside , well say WA? GO AHEAD RUBBISH ME , I'M FINISHED ON THIS , I 'D JUST LIKE TO SEE PEOPLE STOP KILLING EACH OTHER.

 

[Stewies Power]

Muslim terrorist organisation Hamas has finally admitted to what all rational thinking people already knew - they used schools and hospitals in the Gaza strip as human shields. It's disgusting how much crap Israel copped from the Left over this, when Hamas were largely to blame for the deaths of their own citizens by a) storing armoury in public areas and b) for keeping them in the line of fire by telling them to ignore Israeli warnings to evacuate building that would be destroyed. Hamas value their armoury over their citizens, it's now official.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-admits-says-mistake.html?ito=social-facebook

 

[The Coup]

Even if soldiers are hiding in schools and hospitals, I don't think its right to bomb them.

Do you disagree?

Please don't bullshit about Israeli warnings. Israeli's have been caught on camera sniping children, repeatedly. I can post the videos if you want.

Israel will not give a warning to a potential bombing target. Why? Because what kind of idiot tells the target its about to get bombed?

 

[Stewies Power]

Even if soldiers are hiding in schools and hospitals, I don't think its right to bomb them.

Do you disagree?

Please don't bullshit about Israeli warnings. Israeli's have been caught on camera sniping children, repeatedly. I can post the videos if you want.

Israel will not give a warning to a potential bombing target. Why? Because what kind of idiot tells the target its about to get bombed?

They do send out warnings as there's no way Hamas could clear all their armoury in time and Israel would prefer if there were no civilian casualties. If Hamas want to play tough, Israel will play tough back, or they will lose. Free Palestine... from Hamas.

 

[The Coup]

Nope sorry, doesn't happen man.

Makes zero sense tactically, the Jews are some of the best killers and soldiers going, there is no way in ******* hell they warn Hamas leadership of potential bombs. You are staggeringly naive if you think that happens or ever will happen. The IDF are based off the SS man, they do not * around with warnings. They kill the s**t out of everything and then ask questions. It is nothing like the IRA calling in bomb threats, Israeli's shoot children for sport, collateral damage is simply not a concern.

 

[Play by Numbers]

Dare I say a commendable and courageous effort. Amongst the reasons they have detailed are mass surveillance, targeting and persecution of Palestinians over non security issues, vendettas to serve the interests of Israeli politicians, blackmail and extortion, use of violence, denial of access to medical treatments for innocent civilians to create collaborators. Very brave people to call attention to the wholesale denial of basic human rights, by their unit of the IDF.

Sickening, is the first word that jumps to mind, followed by barbaric.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-13/israeli-soldiers-refuse-to-spy-on-palestinians/5741492

Israeli soldiers from elite wire-tapping unit refuse to use 'extortion', 'blackmail' on Palestinians

Israel's intelligence corps has been rocked by a major internal protest over the treatment of Palestinians.

More than 40 former soldiers and current army reservists have signed a letter refusing future service in the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) military intelligence wing, known as Unit 8200.

Unit 8200 is often compared to the United States National Security Agency. It uses sophisticated technology to monitor the lives of Palestinians, gathering information which is then used by Israel's military. It also carries out surveillance overseas.

But the group of soldiers who served in the unit has spoken out about the methods used and the toll they take on innocent civilians in the occupied Palestinian territories.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-13/israeli-soldiers-refuse-to-spy-on-palestinians/5741492

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/12/israel-unit-8200-refuseniks-transcript-interview

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29179655

Already if you peruse Israeli news sources, commentors are calling for their death, or incarceration, labeling them traitors. In my opinion these people are heroes, who have risked their own safety, reputation and future in an effort to put themselves above the conflict, sue for peace and show people what is truly happening.

Also a powerful reminder why we should resist the growing security state and speak out against the governments proposed anti-terror law changes. The argument "if you do nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear" has again been strongly refuted.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Muslim terrorist organisation Hamas has finally admitted to what all rational thinking people already knew - they used schools and hospitals in the Gaza strip as human shields. It's disgusting how much crap Israel copped from the Left over this, when Hamas were largely to blame for the deaths of their own citizens by a) storing armoury in public areas and b) for keeping them in the line of fire by telling them to ignore Israeli warnings to evacuate building that would be destroyed. Hamas value their armoury over their citizens, it's now official.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-admits-says-mistake.html?ito=social-facebook

Hamas wouldn't exist if not for Israel. Simple.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Even if soldiers are hiding in schools and hospitals, I don't think its right to bomb them.

Do you disagree?

Please don't bullshit about Israeli warnings. Israeli's have been caught on camera sniping children, repeatedly. I can post the videos if you want.

Israel will not give a warning to a potential bombing target. Why? Because what kind of idiot tells the target its about to get bombed?

This bomb warning stuff is bulldust, I mean if your bombing Hamas then why warn them , if they are hiding in civilian buildings that's where you'd bomb them hey? Where else in that small deadly little area of Gaza would they be , they live there don't they , and die there it seems along with their own relatives from Israeli mass bombing. Warning is about propaganda , when you slaughter people with massive over powering military might you don't give a s**t about who dies but you make it look like you care, crap!
Now that is a war crime by Israel.

Someone now needs to declare what would be called total war , on ISIS. Like the Romans , you kill everyone. That's total war.

 

[The Coup]

To declare "total war" on ISIS you'd have to also declare war on Saudi Arabia and their allies, are you really advocating Australia go into a war against America?

 

[mottrain]

To declare "total war" on ISIS you'd have to also declare war on Saudi Arabia and their allies, are you really advocating Australia go into a war against America?

No silly theory.

 

[Stewies Power]

Nope sorry, doesn't happen man.

Makes zero sense tactically, the Jews are some of the best killers and soldiers going, there is no way in ******* hell they warn Hamas leadership of potential bombs. You are staggeringly naive if you think that happens or ever will happen. The IDF are based off the SS man, they do not **** around with warnings. They kill the s**t out of everything and then ask questions. It is nothing like the IRA calling in bomb threats, Israeli's shoot children for sport, collateral damage is simply not a concern.

Warning shots are fired telling citizens to get out of buildings where the Hamas Muslim terrorists are storing armoury. Hamas tell their citizens to ignore these warning shots so that they will remain in the building and get killed once Israel fire, which sucks in the Left and creates bad press for Israel in the PR war.
http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news...n-the-roof-how-does-israel-warn-of-airstrikes

 

[The Coup]

Are you serious?

You think Hamas would have popular and democratic support in Gaza whilst using the people they represent as human shields?

How do the Israeli soldiers shooting children factor into this plot to win over the leftists (who are clearly all powerful in your theory despite the absence of a single left wing government in all of the western world).

 

[The Coup]

No silly theory.

Total war is silly? I agree, it's insane.

 

[JoondalupJ]

To declare "total war" on ISIS you'd have to also declare war on Saudi Arabia and their allies, are you really advocating Australia go into a war against America?

Well , no I didn't mean that , I mean that total war in that sense I think ISIS and all terrorists should be hunted down over whatever time and killed , simple as that, ISIS sound terribly extreme to me , some of Hamas are too I guess, but they are trying to get a safe homeland , whether their doctrine is to destroy Israel... they can't..., so both need to come to the party. Stop fighting.

But ISIS, Al Qaeda whoever side they are on all murderers should be taken out.

If America were the Romans which they aren't , though my meaning of total war would have them kill every ISIS fighter on the Earth. Possible or not , they have to go that way using technology and go on hunting , as our friend said before , for a 100 years, if it takes that long.
Because these people are world destroyers, they'll have to kill us all , all 7 billion of us to get their ancient ideas working everywhere.
Most people like freedom and safety and enjoying what ever life is , cause I don't know for sure , I'm sure fanatical Muslims don't either ,BUT, there just may be nothing after this. Problem with fanatics, they live in fantasy land , in paradise , when probably there isn't one. But I am one of those who don't know.

So blind belief that turns some people into mass, head chopping murdering scum is some thing that needs stopping, and if these critters can't help themselves, then TOTAL THEM!!! Like Mossad did to the terrorists who slaughtered innocent athletes, not much different to bombing the daylights out of Gaza now.
But hunt them down and take their lives from them all. Thats sort of what I meant.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Well , no I didn't mean that , I mean that total war in that sense I think ISIS and all terrorists should be hunted down over whatever time and killed , simple as that, ISIS sound terribly extreme to me , some of Hamas are too I guess, but they are trying to get a safe homeland , whether their doctrine is to destroy Israel... they can't..., so both need to come to the party. Stop fighting.

But ISIS, Al Qaeda whoever side they are on all murderers should be taken out.

If America were the Romans which they aren't , though my meaning of total war would have them kill every ISIS fighter on the Earth. Possible or not , they have to go that way using technology and go on hunting , as our friend said before , for a 100 years, if it takes that long.
Because these people are world destroyers, they'll have to kill us all , all 7 billion of us to get their ancient ideas working everywhere.
Most people like freedom and safety and enjoying what ever life is , cause I don't know for sure , I'm sure fanatical Muslims don't either ,BUT, there just may be nothing after this. Problem with fanatics, they live in fantasy land , in paradise , when probably there isn't one. But I am one of those who don't know.

So blind belief that turns some people into mass, head chopping murdering scum is some thing that needs stopping, and if these critters can't help themselves, then TOTAL THEM!!! Like Mossad did to the terrorists who slaughtered innocent athletes, not much different to bombing the daylights out of Gaza now.
But hunt them down and take their lives from them all. Thats sort of what I meant.

PS I understand the Sunni connection , which complicates the whole thing , but they need to arrange it.

 

[The Coup]

What about the financiers though, the ones who have spent 100 billion dollars promoting Wahabbi terrorism?

Kill them too yeah?

 

[JoondalupJ]

What about the financiers though, the ones who have spent 100 billion dollars promoting Wahabbi terrorism?

Kill them too yeah?

I give up , guess we just let Isis cut heads off and sit back and do zilch. There is a million problems probably won't be solved at all, let alone in a hundred years, there are enemies of enemies who are friends of friends and enemies of friends and s**t , big footy won't solve it. So the 21st century will probably make the 20th century look like a play ground.
I thought we had modernised the world , I guess we haven't . So I have nothing more to add , still Israel should have been worked out better.
And of course our allies now, the Japanese, well they chopped a few heads of hey? So what's new.

 

[The Coup]

Nihilism is one of the most fun positions to take on this s**t really. That says a lot.

 

[strauchnyy]

Nope sorry, doesn't happen man.

Makes zero sense tactically, the Jews are some of the best killers and soldiers going, there is no way in ******* hell they warn Hamas leadership of potential bombs. You are staggeringly naive if you think that happens or ever will happen. The IDF are based off the SS man, they do not **** around with warnings. They kill the s**t out of everything and then ask questions. It is nothing like the IRA calling in bomb threats, Israeli's shoot children for sport, collateral damage is simply not a concern.

No. Israel DOES send out warnings to the civilians that are living in houses that store weapons. Fact.

You are obviously confused. Of course they don't warn specific Hamas terrorist targets. But they so warn civilians (phones, msgs, leaflets etc - this is common knowledge) to flee the target.

To say otherwise, means you either don't know what's going on.. Or you're living on another planet.

This tactic (warning civilians) can back fire, sure.. For example there was an occasion where a Hamas leader caught wind a d immediately gathered civilians and had them all stand on the roof to protect the weapons. This DID force Israel not to bomb the target.

You then have Hamas go as far as instructing their population to act as human shields:



Yes, Israel warns civilians to flee weapon stashed areas, even if it can backfire... Because they try to minimise civilian casualties. But it is impossible for there to be no casualties, especially when their own leaders tell them to act as human shields. Disgusting.

 

[strauchnyy]

Are you serious?

You think Hamas would have popular and democratic support in Gaza whilst using the people they represent as human shields?

Good old 'democratic' Hamas shoot or publicly execute all who oppose them.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/2...ving-gazans-a-day-after-executing-protesters/