Israel, Palestine, and everything related

[telsor]

Germans claimed that in 41, despite all the evidence in the world, you won't believe them. But you believe everything Isreal says, even though they told the UN security council it was attacked first.

I don't expect you to understand this, Its more about showing others the lunacy fundamentalism creates, when fundamentalists try to talk about history.

You seem to believe anything anything anyone against Israel says, despite logic, reason and corroborating evidence.

 

[blackcat]

You seem to believe anything anything anyone against Israel says, despite logic, reason and corroborating evidence.

I think the relations during Kennedy's time were parlous, and had more to do with the arab bloc being with the Soviets. LBJ might have pushed the yanks further to the Israeli orbit beyond just enemy of enemy friend. But they did do the Liberty gunboat in 67 with McNamara as defense minister (I think) and LBJ in office. So, I cant see them being that tight. And the Egyptians would not have been reconciled to getting their arse handed to them would they, so they woulda been partial to conspiracy to explain it and keep their populace in arrest.

 

[telsor]

I think the relations during Kennedy's time were parlous, and had more to do with the arab bloc being with the Soviets. LBJ might have pushed the yanks further to the Israeli orbit beyond just enemy or enemy friend. But they did do the Liberty gunboat in 67 with McNamara as defense minister (I think) and LBJ in office. So, I cant see them being that tight. And the Egyptians would not have been reconciled to getting their arse handed to them would they, so they woulda been partial to conspiracy to explain it or keep their populace in arrest.

Not to mention that for the US/UK/whoever to have given the kind of support suggested, it means that for almost 50 years, the tens of thousands of people who would have needed to be involved have all kept silent about it, which seems 'highly improbable'.

 

[blackcat]

Not to mention that for the US/UK/whoever to have given the kind of support suggested, it means that for almost 50 years, the tens of thousands of people who would have needed to be involved have all kept silent about it, which seems 'highly improbable'.

if its an intelligence agency, i reckon it could stay under wraps. If the internet was around in the 70s, a chance it could come out, but I think when the uniform in the intelligence arms, like CIA etc, swear allegiance, they never really leave the service.

Alot of this stuff, is gatekept by the gatekeepers in the press. When the Israelis became a fully fledged Western member, and a partner, atleast to UK/US/Australia, sometime in 70s, then this was not gonna get opening in the papers of record. When I said "this", I mean, a <hypothetical this>, so does not have to be ME/Israel/Arab/Persians... Would be tough to get something up imo, in the press. thru the gatekeepers of current affairs.

now, with the web, would say it would have a better chance getting out in the ensuing decades. But the operational servicemen, spooks or intelligence side or armed servicemen, would be long time retired, and not that exposed to the web.

One guy to look at tho, if Chomsky had mail on this, he would have put it out if he had reputable source. Hersh, yeah nah, not sure if he would bother, he just gets his hands on the temporal and really digs in for 5000words or more, cant see him being able to get the material. But Chomsky definitely would have put it out there. If someone can tell me Chomsky has noted this, then I will be inclined to believe. Atm, not skeptical, but not not skeptical. I cant be bothered to be honest.

 

[telsor]

if its an intelligence agency, i reckon it could stay under wraps. If the internet was around in the 70s, a chance it could come out, but I think when the uniform in the intelligence arms, like CIA etc, swear allegiance, they never really leave the service.

We're talking about substantial military assistance according to the conspiracy theory....carrier battle groups, troops on the ground, etc. That's army and navy, not intel, and considering how quickly the crisis came up, they wouldn't have been hand picked either, it would have been whoever was in the area.

Not to mention the Soviets, who routinely shadowed US carrier groups didn't notice a thing.

One guy to look at tho, if Chomsky had mail on this, he would have put it out if he had reputable source. Hersh, yeah nah, not sure if he would bother, he just gets his hands on the temporal and really digs in for 5000words or more, cant see him being able to get the material. But Chomsky definitely would have put it out there. If someone can tell me Chomsky has noted this, then I will be inclined to believe. Atm, not skeptical, but not not skeptical. I cant be bothered to be honest.

Like a lot of conspiracy theories, when looked at skeptically, it just has too many holes to hold up.

 

[little graham]

Not to mention the Soviets, who routinely shadowed US carrier groups didn't notice a thing.


.

Its funny you mention that, because the attack on the liberty was called off because the Russians flew over. Until then the strike teams on the american carriers were preparing to hit Cairo and ignoring the Libertys calls for assistance. According to the official story Isreal didn't have any planes to carry out the attack on the Liberty.They were to busy with their alleged involvement attacking the Egyptian air force.

They told the UN they were fending off an attack from the Egyptians.Yet they paid 3 lots of compo to the US sailors and their families.

You got to be an absolute nutter to continue spreading the propaganda you are.

 

[little graham]

You seem to believe anything anything anyone against Israel says, despite logic, reason and corroborating evidence.

For me not to believe that you're not being a typical coward playing the race card because you've been caught out posting propaganda, please point me to where I shown this tendency you're accusing me of.

 

[blackcat]

Its funny you mention that, because the attack on the liberty was called off because the Russians flew over. Until then the strike teams on the american carriers were preparing to hit Cairo and ignoring the Libertys calls for assistance. According to the official story Isreal didn't have any planes to carry out the attack on the Liberty.They were to busy with their alleged involvement attacking the Egyptian air force.

They told the UN they were fending off an attack from the Egyptians.Yet they paid 3 lots of compo to the US sailors and their families.

You got to be an absolute nutter to continue spreading the propaganda you are.

nah, the israelis got out of dodge when the liberty sent the sos and had fighters scrambled and they took off, and macnamara and lbj spoke to the head of the navy and told them to get back and not engage the israeli fighters. it was not migs, it was american fighters who never got close to engage. atleast, that is what my understanding is. then the rump of liberty managed to limpfloat back to a mediterranean port where the navy was and the israels before they liberty got out the mayday where putting napalm on the deck and had subrmarines to the surface which machine gunning lifeboats from liberty which is a warcrime.

now my info may be wrong

 

[little graham]

nah, the israelis got out of dodge when the liberty sent the sos and had fighters scrambled and they took off, and macnamara and lbj spoke to the head of the navy and told them to get back and not engage the israeli fighters. it was not migs, it was american fighters who never got close to engage. atleast, that is what my understanding is. then the rump of liberty managed to limpfloat back to a mediterranean port where the navy was and the israels before they liberty got out the mayday where putting napalm on the deck and had subrmarines to the surface which machine gunning lifeboats from liberty which is a warcrime.

now my info may be wrong

There was doco that get kept getting pulled of youtube. It interviewed sailors on the liberty and the carrier implicated in the earlier surprise attack on the Egyptians. They swear the liberty was told that noone is coming to help you. Apparantly there was hell being raised in the fleet because word came from the top, let them fight for themselves. Now the liberty was into electronic warfare, needed escorts. Didn't have the capability to defend itself. The attack lasted a few hours, was well coordinated. The first attacks were on the ships communications. Those on the liberty swear they were not mistaken, Isrealis had always known of their position since their deployment. After all they were in the area to listen in on Russian communications.

Some say it was false flag to draw in the Americans, others part of the cover story for the premeditated attack on the Egyptians.

What we do know is the Isrealis had no regard for the UN with the pathological lying to the UN security council. They can not be trusted, especially if part of any defence or policy constitutes of questioning the character of their enemy.

 

[little graham]

PENNANT Hills Golf Club in Sydney is an unusual place for an epiphany on the changes in Israel. Still, it was there I met a Christian volunteer who went to the occupied territories to escort Palestinian children to school, to protect them from verbal and physical -violence by Israeli settlers.

Violence against Arab kids? Christian volunteers to protect them? From Jewish settlers?

http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2014...now-a-friend-of-palestine-rather-than-israel/

Not sure why MSM would not report this..

 

[blackcat]

There was doco that get kept getting pulled of youtube. It interviewed sailors on the liberty and the carrier implicated in the earlier surprise attack on the Egyptians. They swear the liberty was told that noone is coming to help you. Apparantly there was hell being raised in the fleet because word came from the top, let them fight for themselves. Now the liberty was into electronic warfare, needed escorts. Didn't have the capability to defend itself. The attack lasted a few hours, was well coordinated. The first attacks were on the ships communications. Those on the liberty swear they were not mistaken, Isrealis had always known of their position since their deployment. After all they were in the area to listen in on Russian communications.

Some say it was false flag to draw in the Americans, others part of the cover story for the premeditated attack on the Egyptians.

this is my understanding. think that the video you could still find on Vimeo or somewhere else. And ScottHorton on www.scotthorton.org always interviews Ray McGovern and sometimes its about USSLiberty on anniversaries

What we do know is the Isrealis had no regard for the UN with the pathological lying to the UN security council. They can not be trusted, especially if part of any defence or policy constitutes of questioning the character of their enemy.

but this is not exclusive to them. everyone at that level, will lie. It is America and Canberra and Blair and Alistair Campbell. The Israelis lie, sure, the Hawthorn cat, Mark Regev, he lies ofcourse, but that is a product of his position.

 

[blackcat]

http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2014...now-a-friend-of-palestine-rather-than-israel/

Not sure why MSM would not report this..

the material is out there if free individuals, wish to find it. But the golfers, they cant be said to be rigorous with their ethical positions they see in their mirror, because they dont appreciate the damage the West, the Americans and the Australians wreaked in the ME. It aint merely a few hundred thousand settlers in a colonial project in the West Bank, or Ben Gurions cleansing in 48. The history gos for alot longer. And those golfers dont appreciate, they were on the winning side of history and have materially benefited from this international conflict.

 

[little graham]

but this is not exclusive to them. everyone at that level, will lie. It is America and Canberra and Blair and Alistair Campbell. The Israelis lie, sure, the Hawthorn cat, Mark Regev, he lies ofcourse, but that is a product of his position.

I agree fully. But where does the lying stop and the truth begin?

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

The Israelis lie, sure, the Hawthorn cat, Mark Regev, he lies ofcourse, but that is a product of his position.

Regev's a Hawthorn man? I KNEW IT! Says everything about that club and its self-entitled supporters

 

[little graham]

the material is out there if free individuals, wish to find it. But the golfers, they cant be said to be rigorous with their ethical positions they see in their mirror, because they dont appreciate the damage the West, the Americans and the Australians wreaked in the ME. It aint merely a few hundred thousand settlers in a colonial project in the West Bank, or Ben Gurions cleansing in 48. The history gos for alot longer. And those golfers dont appreciate, they were on the winning side of history and have materially benefited from this international conflict.

Its only natural with their history, that someone on the receiving end could be found to proclaim Israel should be destroyed. Yet so many atrocities are explained away as result of this mentailty. Its been twisted to be used to murder Iranian kids threw sanctions (act of war under UN law) the same people who believe this s**t find it completely normal for Abbott to physically threaten Putin (shirtfront )or McCain to say the whole middle east should be nuked.

When you point this out, you get called racist. HA!

 

[blackcat]

Regev's a Hawthorn man? I KNEW IT! Says everything about that club and its self-entitled supporters

dont know who he barracks for, but he was from eastern suburbs in melbourne. and i think his family owns a signigicant modernist architecture house in hawthorn/kew, round the kew yarra junction hills i think. was by one of australias architects of repute in that modernist era. i think his surname was freiburg before he changed to his kibbutzim name when he made aliyah

 

[blackcat]

Its only natural with their history, that someone on the receiving end could be found to proclaim Israel should be destroyed. Yet so many atrocities are explained away as result of this mentailty. Its been twisted to be used to murder Iranian kids threw sanctions (act of war under UN law) the same people who believe this s**t find it completely normal for Abbott to physically threaten Putin (shirtfront )or McCain to say the whole middle east should be nuked.

When you point this out, you get called racist. HA!

that was Hilary Hormone Replacement Clinton, HRC, saying they would annihilate IRan

 

[little graham]

that was Hilary Hormone Replacement Clinton, HRC, saying they would annihilate IRan

Ive seen it said everytime Isreal have been attacking Lebanon and Palestine the last two decades, as an excuse to refuse to negotiate.

Remember every elected Palestinian gov has been accused of whats actually being done to them. Is ignored because of MSM media pushing the hearsay and innuendo on us.

 

[medusala]

I think the micro state is a wonder with what they produced out of a rump, and they will be a manifold success over the next century, but I wont plead their innocence over crimes. 99% of myths and soundgrabs we hear are BS, they dont need them, you just need to demonstrate the Nobel Prize league tables as an overwhelming mandate for genius. And medusala I use that in the Bojo and KP terminology.

Holy Toledo BC. Putting Obama and EU in same league as KP, Bojo!!

Opposite ends of fat tails.

 

[Tulip]

Four more killed in a terrorist attack at a synagogue. Callous and insensitive in America or anywhere in the rest of the ME, 'standard' in Israel.

 

[Geelong_Bisons_#36]

Four more killed in a terrorist attack at a synagogue. Callous and insensitive in America or anywhere in the rest of the ME, 'standard' in Israel.

So 4 Israeli deaths today..... How many innocent Palestinians??
You'll have to dig a bit harder to find that out cause it won't be reported in MSM.

 

[blackcat]

Four more killed in a terrorist attack at a synagogue. Callous and insensitive in America or anywhere in the rest of the ME, 'standard' in Israel.

can you please qualfy the callous and insensitive sentence cos it could be read depending on bias of the interpreter, and their bigotry. the Four killed at a Sgogue = terrorism/crime/beyond pale/beyond need for a qualifier.

'tho, a devil's advocate would be, i have a feed from electronic intifada among the sites that say the crimes and terrorism against Israels, and EIGHT children have died in the last month at hands of IDF, and we dont hear about that, or will read it in the AusJewishNews. I think I have them on my twitter feed too. not 100% sure. But we have not heard about those 8 deaths. Each life is a world unto themself, and it should not be a scorecard should it. But if we only hear one side, we aint hearing the full story.

And I completely unnerstand why we only hear one side, because we are with Israel with a dog in the fight. But it aint the comprehensive picture is it. The guy who lives under my apartment is Israeli! Well, Australian. But formerly from Israel, and I know a few folkks with family in Israel or descended from Israeli grandparents and parents.

 

[blackcat]

So 4 Israeli deaths today..... How many innocent Palestinians??
You'll have to dig a bit harder to find that out cause it won't be reported in MSM.

But why? we stand toe to toe with Netanyahu, and you have to aggitate and be activist for a more even handed foreign policy, or you can accept the realism that we have always stood side be side with the yanks and the brits and the israelis in the ME. And IS is a fair example why.

 

[telsor]

For me not to believe that you're not being a typical coward playing the race card because you've been caught out posting propaganda, please point me to where I shown this tendency you're accusing me of.

You want me to quote every post you've made in this thread, plus others elsewhere?


As for the race card...Arabs and Jews are the same semetic 'race'. They have different religions and cultures, but racially they're practically the same.

 

[strauchnyy]

So 4 Israeli deaths today..... How many innocent Palestinians??
You'll have to dig a bit harder to find that out cause it won't be reported in MSM.

Wow, your true colours are revealed for all to see.

2 barbaric animals break into a place of worship with knives, guns and axes and kill 6 innocent people for nothing but being a different religion. This is not an accident, this is not an act of self defence, it is not an attack to stop and kill terrorists, it is not to stop rockets.. this is calculated murder on innocent civilians.

And you condone this because the side of the deaths is not the side you 'barrack' for in the conflict.

It doesn't matter who is on the receiving end of this barbaric attack (if Israelis broke into a mosque in east Jerusalem and stabbed 6 Palestinians, or chinese or italians whatever, it'd be just as horrible), it is reprehensible no matter the side. You need to grow up and start condemning these attrocities (which are frequently being) committed by 'your boys' the Palestinians, just as you would be so quick to condemn the Israelis.

As for your constant whining about the Australian MSM, go read the age or the guardian or watch the ABC.. you seem the type of character that would get off on the almost daily Israel bashing articles (that are heavily one sided) that they produce.