Why the pies will NOT win the flag this year

Discussion in 'AFL - The Australian Football League' started by Weekly_spray, Mar 14, 2012.

Put it out there
  1. Weekly_spray

    Weekly_spray Rookie

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    It must be acknowledged that I am a Collingwood member and i have been a loyal fan for my whole life. I am not anti - Collingwood person who criticises and epitomise everything they do. My four main points that will reiterate my argument are
    • Leadership
    • Pre Season
    • Coaching
    • Nab Cup

    It must be recognised that Collingwood has great depth throughout there team. 6 All Australians who all rightfully deserved there spot. The best contested mark in the competition, Travis Cloke. Brownlow Medal winner, Dane Swan and club best and fairest, Scott Pendlebury. All these players are easily inside the best 20 in the competition, possibly best 10. But I am not here to asses the teams strengths.

    Nick Maxwell is undoubtedly the worst playing captain in terms of football skills. As Harry O’Brien exclaimed about Maxwell's influence "It's like having a coach on the field". It is without a doubt that his leadership skills are terrific but it is confusing how a player with his skill is in our top 22. With a constant changing of captains between clubs, we see that there is now an "actions speak louder than words" type of captaincy. I refer to the captains who consistently perform week in, week out, to win games for there teams. Players such as Judd and Ablett most notably. Whilst at North Melbourne, we see that Brent Harvey steps down in order to make way for a young and developing player, Andrew Swallow. Most notably, Mark Neeld has already implemented changes at the club, Brad Green had one of his worst seasons in his career. He was the captain and would of struggled to make there best 22 if he wasn't. What does that say about the club, if there own captain, struggled to play in their respective side. Captains should show leadership skills in times of adversity but should also be able to perform consistently. They should run out in a game being confident that they can have a significant and positive impact. I believe that Maxwell fails to show his impact in a game through his actions. To me, Pendlebury would be a preferred captain. Already rewarded with Vice Captain, he seems to be a major role model to new and upcoming players at the club and also consistently perform in nearly every game he plays.

    Collingwood have not had the smoothest of Pre Seasons. With the loss of Leon Davis, run of off half back and high kicking efficiency when taking kick outs and also Leigh Brown, great utility (Ruck/ Forward). It will be shown throughout the year the skill the team lost. Players who have basically lost the chance to play of a major part of the year in the side through injury are Andrew Krakouer, lively forward and Brent Macaffer, showed glimpses of excellence in 2010 season, ravaged by injury ever since. Also many players were not able to complete a full pre season most notably, Ben Johnson and Alan Didak. All these players were regarded to be in the top 22 but for one reason or another will not get the advantage of having a full pre season and will be greatly disadvantaged.

    The greatest fear I have for the club, is how the team will adapt to the new coaching staff. Over the summer we have lost Mark Neeld (Melbourne), Scott Watters (St. Kilda) and most significantly Mick Malthouse. It was the worst of luck for Malthouse, as a previously signed contract forced him to exit his ongoing reign as coach. After the past two seasons of finishing first, playing in three grand finals, winning one, drawing one and losing one, he left at the peak of his career. But as the contract was already in full flight and Buckley eager to fulfil his role as coach, it was all too late and extremely unfortunate. It was when Buckley arrived, opportunities arrived for other assistant coaches to advance to a more senior role as coaching staff disintegrated, new staff came in. Buckley came in with fresh ideas and a plan to slightly alter the clubs tactics and strategies. Our game plan had been exploited by Geelong as seen through our loss in the latter stage of the season (90 odd points) and in the grand final. Or game plan is old and highly knowledgeable, wide and around the boundary. What frightens me the most is Mark Neeld’s transfer to the Melbourne football club. He was our midfield coach and as he cultivated our star players, Pendlebury, Swan and Thomas, he essentially made our midfield into the powerhouse it is today. What can he do with the likes of players from the Melbourne football club and what will he do with them. It will be exciting times for the Melbourne football club over the next couple of years. Honestly, I am not confident with Buckley’s coaching and am extremely anxious on how our team will perform in the season. How will he change our team in terms of our previous coach? How will he alter the game plan? How will he develop our younger players, essentially our future? Is he liked around the club or are players angered that he took Mick’s job? This questions will be answered over time and throughout the 2012 premiership season

    I know it is only NAB cup, but I already have learned some major insights into the future of our club. Already losing to the Melbourne football club by 10 point’s and Adelaide by 77 points, there was an obvious reminder of how are youngsters face up against other clubs. Not a fully depleted team played against Melbourne two weeks ago and showed very little encouraging signs of where the clubs future was headed. Neeld was obviously familiar with the game plan and on separate occasions was able to turn the game on it’s head by showing strong signs of run through the middle with the likes of an extremely young and talented midfield. In the both games, I have analysed the young players who according to Rodney Eade are “able to fit right comfortably in the best 22”. Lachlan Keeffe, who know plays a defensive role, was ripped to shreds in both games. Playing a similar role to Ben Reid, he played miserably throughout both games and could not play competitively with one on one situations. His stature could not aid him in these battles. Another player, Ben Sinclair, who had not been shown encouraging signs during his games for the club. Yes he is still is very young and requires experience but I will still never remove the memory of him playing against Geelong when the club lost by just over 90 points. It was basically a grade three against a bunch of grown men. He did not look ready for the AFL and from his recent games still does not look ready to play. It will be extremely interesting looking at his role at the club when he does come into our side. Another sign of our need for Brown , was Dawes in the ruck, not winning a single hitout, Buckley seemed to want Dawes to act as a utility. Dawes failed to show any positive signs as he failed to kick goals and collect possession whilst up forward. I honestly hope it is a string of bad games not a complete form slump.


    This is the current 2012 playing squad

    ▪ 1 Alex Fasolo
    ▪ 2 Chris Tarrant (vet)
    ▪ 3 Andrew Krakouer
    ▪ 4 Alan Didak
    ▪ 5 Nick Maxwell (c)
    ▪ 6 Tyson Goldsack
    ▪ 8 Harry O'Brien
    ▪ 9 Martin Clarke
    ▪ 10 Scott Pendlebury (vc)
    ▪ 11 Jarryd Blair
    ▪ 12 Luke Ball
    ▪ 13 Dale Thomas
    ▪ 14 Luke Rounds
    ▪ 15 Jarrod Witts
    ▪ 16 Nathan Brown
    ▪ 17 Dayne Beams
    ▪ 18 Darren Jolly
    ▪ 19 Cameron Wood
    ▪ 20 Ben Reid
    ▪ 21 Sharrod Wellingham
    ▪ 22 Steele Sidebottom
    ▪ 23 Lachlan Keeffe
    ▪ 24 Josh Thomas
    ▪ 25 Tom Young
    ▪ 26 Ben Johnson (vet)
    ▪ 27 Simon Buckley
    ▪ 28 Ben Sinclair
    ▪ 29 John Ceglar
    ▪ 30 Brent Macaffer
    ▪ 31 Chris Dawes
    ▪ 32 Travis Cloke
    ▪ 33 Jackson Paine
    ▪ 34 Alan Toovey
    ▪ 35 Jamie Elliott
    ▪ 36 Dane Swan
    ▪ 37 Kirk Ugle
    ▪ 38 Peter Yagmoor
    ▪ 39 Heath Shaw
    ▪ 40 Paul Seedsman
    ▪ 44 Corey Gault

    It is these previous points, In which i am anxious and do not believe that the club can win ultimate glory in 2012. Geelong or Hawthorn to me seem like more serious contenders for the premiership. If you think otherwise, or agree with my article, please feel free to add your opinion. Everybody is entitled to an opinion and so am I, as not everything I say will be agreed upon. If you wish to contact me and have any further queries, my email is joseph_empire@hotmail.com or send me a message over BigFooty. My name is Joseph Xuereb and this is my Weekly Spray.

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  2. Adelaide Hawk

    Adelaide Hawk Norm Smith Medallist

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    Well, that's it for Collingwood then. Any other clubs we want to write off before a ball has been kicked?
  3. MarcusP2

    MarcusP2 Team Captain

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    I'd be willing to write off GWS.
  4. Lockyer24

    Lockyer24 Premium Platinum

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    I think you are wrong.

    Season 2012 is about having our best 25 available fit and firing in September. Not round 1 or even round 10.

    This preseason has already been as experimental for us as I've ever seen.

    The league is very weak and just finishing top 8 will be a breeze.

    Our regular season won't be the stuff of champions, probably a 16-6 type deal which might get us Top 4. Our early few rounds might be a bit rocky.

    But the patient Pie fans will know what is coming in the latter part of the year.
    We have too much talent to not be amongst it, and who knows we might find another 2 kids to fill out our team by 3/4 way through the year aka Fasolo, Blair etc
    PS Your call on Maxwell will be your biggest gaff - putting aside his unbelievably good leadership skills you'll soon see why coaches love 1%s and unselfish acts, it already saved our arse in one decider and many games lets see what a player who is fit again can give us
  5. Weekly_spray

    Weekly_spray Rookie

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    Im not writing the club off completely, in my opinion i just don't think Collingwood will win the premiership considering there circumstances
  6. Taco

    Taco Suspended

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    I'll go out on a limb and put a line through Port. Oh and Geelong, that seems to be the 'it' thing over the last 3-4 years.
  7. Weekly_spray

    Weekly_spray Rookie

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    "Our regular season won't be the stuff of champions, probably a 16-6 type deal which might get us Top 4. Our early few rounds might be a bit rocky."

    Great point, i think round one will be a great indicator of perhaps what is to come
  8. Defacto

    Defacto Premium Gold

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    You also lost hudgton to the saints. His work with the defenders cannot be under estimated
  9. Peter J

    Peter J Club Legend

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    Cant believe slagging off Maxwell....a favourite player of mine. Wasnt he AA recently?

    To my dying day I will be haunted by the nightmare of the 09 semi final. Tippett kicks what should have been the winning goal. Next centre bounce Maxwell takes it upon himself to go into the square and of course wins the clearance with a stinking mongrel punt down to Jack Anthony. Sorry but you just cant teach that. Guy stands alone on his ability to influence games...let alone his on field leadership.

    Pies will be around the mark again this year:(
  10. deathevocation

    deathevocation Beer. Football. Metal.

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    Well, with that comment I'm calling it a night.
  11. RedmanWasHere

    RedmanWasHere All Australian

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    Maxy should never've been appointed captain.

    Always maintained it should've been Pendlebury.

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  12. Two Eyes

    Two Eyes Team Captain

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    I can still see it like it happened right in front of me!
  13. Pie in the Sky

    Pie in the Sky Team Captain

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    Pendlebury was too young at the time.

    And Maxwell led us to a premiership, playing an important role down back and giving us excellent leadership. Don't think it was the wrong call at all.
  14. Alkanphel

    Alkanphel All Australian

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    Last year Geelong lost Ablett and Head Coach plus Brendon Mcartney and iirc our top fitness coach and still won..

    This year we lost Mooney, Ling, Ottens and Milburn. We have injuries too in Varcoe, Simpson, Vardy, Wojo? and Menzel. (may have missed one or two)

    Have a ruck that is untried at AFL Level, and yes while this team is younger then last year.. Scarlett, Enright, Corey and Chappy are in there last couple of years if not this year...

    But having said that, cats supporters aren't complaing. We still have a good list that is capable of going all the way.. Just like Pies.

    Collingwood could easily do a Geelong of 09 now with the pain of 11.. You never know.
  15. Peter J

    Peter J Club Legend

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    Hmm..that may read as being a tad overcooked. Intention was not that he stands alone in the whole competition for influencing games, simply that his play and influence stands alone in terms of his selection as a player for the Pies without considering his added value as a leader.:eek:
  16. Professor Knowall

    Professor Knowall Team Captain

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    I can think of a number of reasons why the pies MAY NOT win the flag this year. I can also think of a number of reasons why the pies MAY win the flag this year.

    The OP has not provided one good (or even bad) reason why the pies WILL NOT win the flag this year. Nor can he (or anyone else), at this stage.
  17. The Fact

    The Fact Team Captain

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    Why would people email you and how can you just write off the pies because of some pre season games??? The cats lost to richmond!!! are they gone to
  18. hayes

    hayes Premium Gold

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    I didn't read half of what you said because that post was way too long, but to base anything off NAB Cup games is ridiculous. In 2009 St Kilda played their last preseason game and lost by 80+ points to Port Adelaide. Read it again; Port Adelaide and we started off the season 19-0 and made the Grand Final. Pretty sure Carlton won the wooden spoon one year they won the NAB Cup so you can forget about making predictions from practice matches.

    I'm with you on Maxwell though. There's no way he'd be getting a game if he wasn't captain. Has no skills to speak of and is terrible in a one on one, but apart from that they have as good a chance as any to win it all this year.
  19. Weekly_spray

    Weekly_spray Rookie

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    Thank you, I just cannot see why others would agree that Pendlebury would fit as a better captain. His leadership skills are already excellent as proven by getting the role of Vice - Captain and he is one of the best, if not the best player at Collingwood!
  20. millsy29gopies

    millsy29gopies Mr Brightside

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    I'll bookmark this and get back to it in September and prove you wrong.
    Weekly_spray likes this.
  21. Weekly_spray

    Weekly_spray Rookie

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    I haven't made my predictions solely on NAB cup. Also in the game agains Geelong VS Richmond, Geelong went into the match without nine premiership players: Jimmy Bartel, Corey Enright, Joel Selwood, Andrew Mackie, Travis Varcoe, David Wojcinski, Harry Taylor, Mathew Stokes and Josh Hunt. Completely different amount compared to the game against Melbourne and Adelaide
  22. Gone Critical

    Gone Critical Spec Moderator

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    I suppose missing Shaw, Thomas, Welliingham, Didak, Wood, Tarrant , Brown, Beams Goldsack, Ball, Johnston 10 premiership players means Collingwood were virtually full strength against Adelaide
  23. Gone Critical

    Gone Critical Spec Moderator

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    I agree, worst decision Collingwood ever made

    Do you realise since he took over the captaincy he has only led the club to one flag. He has only been AA once, the pathetic best he could manage in the B&F is 2nd (and only 1 other top 10 finishes), he has only won the best finals player twice in those 3 seasons as Captain

    It seems he has been Captain forever , 3 years, yet has failed in anyway to prove his worth as an individual player. Before anyone tries to make excuses and say that one of those seasons 2011 was significantly influenced by injury I say that shows Maxy is a wimp

    Lastly the fact that Maxwell had never been dropped from the senior team at Collingwood prior to becoming captain only confirms my belief he is only picked these days because he is the captain

    Making Maxy captain, yeah that was a real howler
  24. ipswichpies

    ipswichpies Team Captain

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    The op pointed out 4 valid reasons why the Pies may not win this year and they are feasible no doubt,what about the other side of the coin ie some reasons as to why they may well win it.

    In 2010 we looked very shaky in the early part of the season as did the Cats last season but we both came home alright,you may be a Collingwood fan and member but you are not a very loyal one.:thumbsdown:
  25. Shpeshal Ed

    Shpeshal Ed Moderator

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    While I don't think we'll win the flag this year a few things about your OP:

    - Learn GRAMMAR. It's 'their' not 'there' in the context you're using. God that's annoying.

    - Be interested to see how you would have posted after 09. We lost Brad Scott to the Kangas, and Brad Scott was our midfield coach. We've gone on to win the flag since, and North has done......what?

    - 09 Prelim we got SMASHED by the Cats and looked as far away from a flag as you could possibly be. Next year, we bot beaten in the first round of the NAB Cup by the Saints and things looked even worse. Then we won a flag. Against the Saints no less.

    - An inexperienced Geelong just lost to Richmond at Skilled. They also lost an important assistant to Adelaide, who are looking good (in the pre-season). So then Geelong has no chance either? They lost Ottens and Ling, 2 keys players during their era of dominance. Are they finished?

    Like I said, while I technically agree we most likely won't win the flag this year, your reasoning and lack of a 'flip-side' argument makes you look like you have no idea and are just spouting the same shit others do.