Will/Have you ever stopped watching?

[Stripple]

A little bit. Moreso that most of it is so preposterous now you can't take it seriously. At all.

To me it operated with a very simple agreement between the promoters (and wrestlers) and fans. We'll go along with it (as fans), and are happy to suspend our disbelief, as long as you don't make it too obvious, you don't insult us, and you give us a reason to invest emotionally in it. Three great examples:

1. Steve Austin v The Rock. We believe Steve Austin is a beer drinking redneck, because, he's a beer drinking redneck. We believe The Rock is a unique athlete who trashtalks, because, he's a unique athlete who trashtalks. Put them together, give them a match/title/reason to fight, we'll watch it. It doesn't need to get any more complex than that.

2. Ric Flair v Terry Funk. Ric Flair beats Steamboat to regain the NWA Title. Terry Funk comes out of the crowd and says - this is really complex - I WANT THE NEXT TITLE SHOT. Simple. Not hard to understand. That leads to a killer feud, sold-out houses, and two of the best PPV Main events you will ever see.

3. Kurt Angle v Chris Benoit. This wasn't even a feud at all per se; they were tag-team partners at the same time. They put them together a couple of times (starting back at WM17), and not surprisingly they clicked. By Royal Rumble 2003 you didn't need a convoluted story, or a diva, or Vince Russo insanity, it was an even simpler premise: two great athletes who you wanted to see fight, because you were curious who would win. That's it. That's all you needed to know to follow it. When they locked up at the Rumble, they had to follow a botchfest between Scott Steiner and Triple H (no surprise there). The crowd booed it out of the building. But 30 minutes later they gave both these guys a standing ovation.

But what do we get now? We get told endlessly that they are 'performers'. The matches make zero sense. The angle makes zero sense. The promos are scripted and horrible. Everyone looks and talks the same. Then people wonder why less people follow it now than at any other time in history. Not hard to see why.

Keep the premise simple, keep the product simple. As you say about the UFC, it's pro-wrestling with legitimate fighting. They're doing it much, much better.

Feel for you man and totally agree. When I was a kid your willing to go a lot further, but the variety aspect of the Vince McMahon product is too much of a focus.

Would definitely recommend NXT if you haven't checked it out much better story telling. There is some hit and miss stuff because they are learning but it feels much more real. The Zayn Neville build a prime example.that was like nearly a year build up to the final blow off match at r evolution which was incredible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Damon_3388]

Obviously what people like to see and how they think wrestling should be is their own opinion, but I strongly encourage everyone here (especially those feeling a bit cynical/jaded about wrestling lately) to watch Kayfabe Commentaries: Guest Booker - Al Snow 'The Attitude Era'. It's available for DVD purchase or on-demand viewing through that link (I personally found it via other means). Dates back to 2011, around the time Kane was World Heavyweight Champion on SmackDown, and discusses some points of what made WWE's 'Attitude Era' so successful, but the messages and the takeaways are applicable to any period and style of wrestling.

I'm not saying Snow is categorically "right", or his way is the way things "should" be, but depending on your perspective, your experience in watching wrestling, or just what you know, it's a great reminder, refresher, insight or lightbulb moment into the business, and how things work, and what's important from a booking perspective with the product we're being shown. Just a great, honest, real discussion on the business of professional wrestling.

 

[The Casey Cat]

So, to answer the original question, yep I've stopped. And I don't see myself going back.

Have you got a hold of Wrestlekingdom 9 from this year (JR on commentary) or any of the recently aired AXS specials for the US? Have been pretty well done and shows there is one major promotion out there getting it right.

 

[Damon_3388]

Have you got a hold of Wrestlekingdom 9 from this year (JR on commentary) or any of the recently aired AXS specials for the US? Have been pretty well done and shows there is one major promotion out there getting it right.

The first half of the show was pretty dull TBH, considering the talent involved. The latter matches were good, but not the 4 1/2 star-plus wankfests that Da Meltz made them out to be.

One major thing bothered me watching the whole show too - As much as J.R. and Striker pump everyone up, not understanding Japanese and not having seen any of the build, why am I meant to care about the matches and the outcomes? Sure, I can appreciate good technical execution as much as the next guy, and Nakamura would probably be exciting to watch if he were sitting there sipping on a cup of coffee, but without some sort of emotional investment or reason to care, you're taking away a big part of the entire point of being "drawn" to watching wrestling.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Sure, I can appreciate good technical execution as much as the next guy, and Nakamura would probably be exciting to watch if he were sitting there sipping on a cup of coffee, but without some sort of emotional investment or reason to care, you're taking away a big part of the entire point of being "drawn" to watching wrestling.

The matches themselves (which in this case included terrific psychology) and story telling within them make you care. They were gripping contests that seemed important to win because of the performances. As opposed to the nonsensical, over produced, rushed shite the WWE and giving a lot of the time recently where winning a match is rarely of any importance any more.

 

[Damon_3388]

The matches themselves (which in this case included terrific psychology) and story telling within them make you care. They were gripping contests that seemed important to win because of the performances. As opposed to the nonsensical, over produced, rushed shite the WWE and giving a lot of the time recently where winning a match is rarely of any importance any more.

Yeah, but what is the psychology of the specific match based on, and what is the story they're trying to tell? It's not really immediately apparent, without formulating your own narrative and reasoning for certain things being done and things going the way they do.

To know more about and have some sort of an investment in the story of a match, and have a reason to care whether someone wins and loses, you do need some kind of back-story, otherwise it's largely just two people simulating a fight in front of an audience.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Yeah, but what is the psychology of the specific match based on, and what is the story they're trying to tell?

Story they're telling seems to be they really want to win. They want the honor of having their hands raised at the end of a very hard fought match. Is told well within the matches and also after in the devastation by some of the losers.

To know more about and have some sort of an investment in the story of a match, and have a reason to care whether someone wins and loses, you do need some kind of back-story, otherwise it's largely just two people simulating a fight in front of an audience.

Won't deny some back ground may help or be necessary for some but it's not vital when the matches are performed so well. I had no background for any of the matches and had NEVER watched any NJPW besides a bit of Collison in Korea '95 just to see what an event in front of 150,000 people looked/sounded like. Despite that (and the at times painful behaviour of whoever it was calling with JR) I loved it and had no problem caring for each match and it's the most I've enjoyed a wrestling event start to finish for a very long time. Were actually some way exciting as a lot of the matches seemed they could go either way.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

I was a regular to semi-regular WWE viewer from 1999-2005. Only watched it a handful of times between 2006 and 2009 otherwise it was completely off my radar. Got back into it for a few months in 2009, TNA as well, then stopped, then in 2010 I watched TNA regularly and WWE from about October onwards. Been watching WWE regularly since but ditched SmackDown when the brand split ended.

Would I stop watching? It could happen again sure but at the moment recording Raw and fast forwarding the s**t (and there can be a lot of it) is pretty easy so I don't feel a need to quit.

 

[Adzam]

I remember watching bits here and there as a kid. Would have been early 90s. I remember undertaker, Yokozuna, doink and my favourite warrior at the time. My older brother was more into it.
Then when I got older I remember seeing it in the TV guide on really late at night so decided to record it. It was the start of the brawl for all and I became pretty obsessed after that. Went off it again a few years after the attitude era wrapped up.

Just started wwe network and watching old raws but realised some of the later years don't have all episodes

 

[TheGreatBambino]

Rumble to Mania is always the season to get back into wrestling.

 

[Millky95]

From memory I watched so much WCW growing up. I fell out of WWE for a while before coming back for TNA for the Main Event Mafia but stayed for AJ Styles and the Motor City Machine Guns. When they all left and all that was left in TNA for me was Joe and Beer Money (despite being split up) there was a lot of crap so stopped watching.

I usually follow WWE from the Rumble to Mania. Never really got into Bryan so WWE is still missing like, 3 guys to keep me watching more. Sting is awesome though

 

[Demonic Ascent]

The first half of the show was pretty dull TBH, considering the talent involved. The latter matches were good, but not the 4 1/2 star-plus wankfests that Da Meltz made them out to be.

One major thing bothered me watching the whole show too - As much as J.R. and Striker pump everyone up, not understanding Japanese and not having seen any of the build, why am I meant to care about the matches and the outcomes? Sure, I can appreciate good technical execution as much as the next guy, and Nakamura would probably be exciting to watch if he were sitting there sipping on a cup of coffee, but without some sort of emotional investment or reason to care, you're taking away a big part of the entire point of being "drawn" to watching wrestling.

I watched most of it today (just finished the Nakamura/Ibushi match before had to head off) and my thoughts were exactly the same. The first match was good but so much stuff going on was impossible to keep track so just zoned out and watched the spots.

I thought JR did a poor job on commentary, didn't seem to have much oomph and the crowd seemed kinda quiet too (though they did say this was typical for Japanese crowds).

The main issue though was there was no build before any of the matches, no packages to show why the match was taking place or any background at all, it was just continuous one match on to the next. I know they present it more as a "sport" than entertainment but some background for international viewers would go a long way.

 

[PoppedCorn]

I slowly stopped watching after the invasion stuff and the years it was just ten cena orton Orton.
Basically I haven't watched everything for a week solid in prob 8 to 10 years?
I watch mania every year and prob the rumble
Didn't watch this years rumble tho as it was too obvious of the outcome.

Gimme old school
Gimmie territories
Gimmie storylines that are interesting.
Gimmie some actual wrestling.
I've heard Sting has landed in the wwe from someone at work and it peaked the interest for about 1 min.
I'm guessing it'll be sting and triple H at mania and not taker v sting like everyone's been asking for for ten years.
Mind u I've heard taker is pretty stuffed body wise.?

 

[Primetime Pricey]

I was more WCW so once that got destroyed i tried watching WWE mainly for those guys although i followed The Rock and Edge but it just wasnt the same for me.
Watched for a few years but i got tired of how it all went G rated if you know what i mean. Once Edge retired i pretty much stopped watching although i'll tune in for a Royal Rumble or Wrestlemania and the occasional Raw/Smackdown if im not doing anything else.
I probably watch old school wrestling on Youtube more than anything.

 

[PoppedCorn]

Same
I often revisit older stuff on the tube from all eras.
Wwe is just nowhere near where us was ten years ago.

Look at the stuff we are watching now
Compare it to Angle v Benoit in the cage and angles missed moonsault off the top.
Chalk and cheese

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Same
I often revisit older stuff on the tube from all eras.
Wwe is just nowhere near where us was ten years ago.

Look at the stuff we are watching now
Compare it to Angle v Benoit in the cage and angles missed moonsault off the top.
Chalk and cheese

Bad.

Mick Foley getting thrown off the top of the hell in cell against taker i remember that s**t like it was yesterday me and my mate started the "HOLY s**t" chant in the lounge room lolz.

 

[PoppedCorn]

Funny
I've just watched the doco The Spectacular Legacy of the AWA and st valentines day massacre with mick and taker.
Hadn't seen the hell match for a few years and its still as good now as the day it happened IMO

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I watched most of it today (just finished the Nakamura/Ibushi match before had to head off) and my thoughts were exactly the same. The first match was good but so much stuff going on was impossible to keep track so just zoned out and watched the spots.

I thought JR did a poor job on commentary, didn't seem to have much oomph and the crowd seemed kinda quiet too (though they did say this was typical for Japanese crowds).

The main issue though was there was no build before any of the matches, no packages to show why the match was taking place or any background at all, it was just continuous one match on to the next. I know they present it amore as a "sport" than entertainment but some background for international viewers would go a long way.

I watched the last two matches last night (watched the Nakamura match again) and I was warming to it a bit more. However I still think the commentary was lacking and I couldn't get over how quiet the crowd was.

 

[cheesedogg]

Rumble to Mania is always the season to get back into wrestling.

Agreed.

Although given how bad and lazy everything has been for a while now & that so far this has been the worst 'Road to Wrestlemania' I can seriously ever remember, I honestly reckon that if Cena goes over Rusev and even more so the bigger one of Reigns going over Brock (regardless of a Rollins cash in or not) I'm going to be so disillusioned with the product and it's direction (or lack of) as a whole that I'm done with it for a while.

Really feeling I'm at the point I'm only just hanging on and almost forcing myself to keep watching. I think I might just need to have a clean break for a while & maybe have another look in a year or two

 

[GoldenHodge]

I stopped watching from about 2011-2013 (Did watch all the Wrestlemanias in that period live though) and then sporadically watched it in 2014. Now I'm watching every RAW and NXT. Kinda sucks that I missed CM Punk's long WWE championship reign though.

 

[Filthy Sanchez]

Agreed.

Although given how bad and lazy everything has been for a while now & that so far this has been the worst 'Road to Wrestlemania' I can seriously ever remember, I honestly reckon that if Cena goes over Rusev and even more so the bigger one of Reigns going over Brock (regardless of a Rollins cash in or not) I'm going to be so disillusioned with the product and it's direction (or lack of) as a whole that I'm done with it for a while.

Really feeling I'm at the point I'm only just hanging on and almost forcing myself to keep watching. I think I might just need to have a clean break for a while & maybe have another look in a year or two

I completely agree. Honestly without the banter and good discussion on this forum wrestling just wouldn't be fun for me anymore.

 

[cheesedogg]

I completely agree. Honestly without the banter and good discussion on this forum wrestling just wouldn't be fun for me anymore.

Definitely! Can comprehensively say that this board is the best thing about wrestling at the moment. The road to Wrestlemania in the general discussion thread is amazing right now lol.
But seriously I do get more entertainment here on a Tuesday night than from the product itself. Yet I give them $10 a month

 

[chook94]

Money in the Bank 2011 got me back interested and have been on and off ever since. Always start watching from about SS to Mania and then lose interest again. Got the WWE network at the start of summer (uni holidays) and found the whole WCW/WWE monday night wars and the old school wrestling territory days so interesting. Well, really That's the only real value i've seen from the network considering the 3 PPV's this summer TLC RR and FL have been the 3 worst PPV's I've ever seen.

 

[deedog2]

Stopped watching from 04-10...what did I miss?

 

[Maxwell110]

Stopped watching from 04-10...what did I miss?

Nothing really