1. SPT brings you the latest in amateur sports tracking device. Check your speed, distance and heart rate through games.

    Use the coupon code “BIGFOOTY” for a $15.00 discount - while stock lasts

  2. Congratulations to referee and wpotter for tipping 8/9 and 11 points off the tie-breaker margin. FREE Platinum BFSC for you!

    Get your tips in!

With NQ and GC out...

Discussion in 'Football Australia' started by Dirty Bird, Mar 1, 2012.

Put it out there
  1. Dirty Bird

    Dirty Bird Pokémon Master

    Adelaide
    Other teams:
    #WeAreSouthAustralia
    Joined:
    Aug 10
    Posts:
    16,850
    Location:
    Atlanta
    ...Will Brisbane rename themselves the Queensland Roar again?

    (Log in to remove this ad.)

  2. Tigerdrive

    Tigerdrive Team Captain

    Richmond
    Other teams:
    Melbourne Victory
    Joined:
    Oct 04
    Posts:
    1,471
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I guess they could, but I don't think they will.

    They won the Championship as Brisbane Roar and that name for them has much more recognition.
  3. Stewies Power

    Stewies Power Team Captain

    Port Adelaide
    Other teams:
    Aus Cricket Team & F1 Ricciardo
    Joined:
    Sep 11
    Posts:
    3,238
    Location:
    Adelaide
    So what was the point of those two teams? Millions wasted down the drain. The A-League needs to stop propping up teams everywhere without any research, planning and development otherwise this will continue to happen. At least they didn't rush in the new western Sydney team, but the only thing stopping western Sydney from having a soccer team was insufficient A-League funds, otherwise they probably would also die out. Who's next? Melbourne Heart?
  4. AJ_2000

    AJ_2000 Team Captain

    Essendon
    Other teams:
    Socceroos, Man Utd
    Joined:
    Mar 07
    Posts:
    883
    Location:
    Right Here.... Right Now.
    Wouldnt shock me if the FFA fast track a West Sydney team (my nickname would be - Debarcle). Biggest mistake they can make would be to add another team at such short notice.
  5. ErnieSigley

    ErnieSigley All Australian

    Western Bulldogs
    Other teams:
    Joined:
    Feb 05
    Posts:
    7,067
    Location:
    Australia
    Why would it be worse than the situation now?
  6. Barkly St End

    Barkly St End Club Legend

    Western Bulldogs
    Other teams:
    Seagulls, Kookaburras
    Joined:
    Dec 09
    Posts:
    9,960
    Location:
    Barkly St
    A West Sydney team will be the 10th team, guaranteed. The only question mark is whether it will be ready for next season, or have to wait out one season before been able to join (meaning 9 teams for season 8).

    But as long as the decision has been made before the TV negotiations hot up, that won't be a huge burden.

    If the FFA go into negotiations with only 9 teams on the horizon, that would be an unimitigated disaster.
  7. Normy132

    Normy132 Senior List

    Collingwood
    Other teams:
    Joined:
    Sep 10
    Posts:
    1,533
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I find it kind of strange they persevered with the original eight teams making losses in the first five or so seasons but then only gave NQF two years and then gave them the boot.

    I think both of them were just poor management. There's no other way to say why they failed. Both had solid populations with a potential market. It wasn't executed properly.

    I reckon there's a chance they'll bring back GCU in some format (new owner perhaps) but they'll most likely fastrack West Sydney which is a REALLY bad move.
  8. Tigerbob

    Tigerbob Club Legend

    Richmond
    Other teams:
    Storm, Bushies
    Joined:
    May 01
    Posts:
    4,553
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria
    Keep GCU, FFA to run it for one year and look for a backer. Good kids and team, just get them community involved and lift the damn cap. Huge region of potential football fans. Cant give up on it because of one idiot.

    Add Canberra FFS. They have already 3,000 members ready to go without starting a club. Will be the only sport they mainly have, have facilities and backers. Nations capital. Get them in.

    Get your Western Sydney in too if you must then Lowy. Just make sure it is set up right and not run by an idiot.

    There, 12 team comp. Keeping Gold Coast, adding Canberra and Western Sydney.

    Next phase, reintroduce Townsville (not North Queensland) and Tasmania (Call them Hobart or wherever it will be based).

    14 teams, build on that. Develop that. Nurture that. It will be enough for years.

    Adelaide, Brisbane, Canberra, Central Coast, Gold Coast, Melbourne Heart, Melbourne Victory, Newcastle, Perth, Sydney, Tasmania, Townsville, Wellington and Western Sydney. That covers most of Australia. Come at me TV rights deal. Come at me sponsors.

    No relegation system, but introduce an FFA Cup from all comps around Australia. Have a knock out comp in each state including the A League teams from that state, then advanced to the next round introducing first and second place from each state. That will re generate interest in the lower levels knowing teams will get there chance in the sun and go against the Big Boys. Participation will grow, sponsors from everywhere will get behind the lower teams. Fox Sport will show all the games.

    The A League has issues, but can be improved. Do it smart and it could be a beast.
  9. Normy132

    Normy132 Senior List

    Collingwood
    Other teams:
    Joined:
    Sep 10
    Posts:
    1,533
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Really? Two of the three expansion teams have been given the boot and you want to add FOUR more on top of the 10?
  10. holy diver

    holy diver ΑΩ

    Fremantle
    Other teams:
    Joined:
    Jan 12
    Posts:
    4,370
    Location:
    presidential palace
    Thing about Canberra having a team, back in the NSL, they had the Canberra Cosmos FC. They didn't last long.
    What's changed in the nations capital that makes them a sustainable location to have an A-League club?
  11. Silent Alarm

    Silent Alarm Is your bed made? Is your sweater on?

    Fremantle
    Other teams:
    Arsenal
    Joined:
    Jul 10
    Posts:
    10,648
    Location:
    Melbourne via WA
    They, the FFA, gave North Queensland Fury more than two seasons.

    The owners of North Queensland gave the club two seasons. When the honeymoon was over, they realised the hardships involved. Owning, running, having a competent football club is hard. When this became evident, they jumped ship. The FFA could not afford, nor did they want, to prop up the side. There was an ultimatum, as I'm sure you know. Unfortunately, the cash goal wasn't met. The rest is history.

    I believe the FFA saw Gold Coast United as permanent. At least, back when NQF died. They had a cashed up owner with a club playing well. The on-field issues could be addressed later –*but they never were.

    And to be honest, I never had a problem with Clive then. He paid money for some good footballers, brought home a consistent Socceroo, brought them finals success. All this belief that is boasting (about going unbeaten) and it's effect in killing crowds is nonsense. Who thinks "oh, this owner's arrogant. I'm not going to watch my club because the owner's confident!". The market was fickle. Palmer responded decently. He's a businessman. That crowd cap was just saving money. His later, more recent, antics are abhorrent, I accept that. But who could really see a dummy spit this huge coming?

    Look, the original problem with GCU wasn't Clive. It was always the fickle market of the town. Nobody cared about the club. They were averaging poor crowds within their first few competitive games. This was before a crowd cap, before Clive acting insane. You're deluded if you believe that GCU could continue. In any capacity, the club is flawed, as is the market. It won't happen. I'd hate to see the FFA lose more money on something that cannot be revived.

    Lowy doesn't really want a Western Sydney. He owns parts of Sydney. He basically has that city in his mind, and that club (SFC) in mind. To lose potential money, support, and sponsorship to WS wouldn't be within his interests. You don't seem to realise this. So, I kind of find it hard to take what you say seriously.

    I cannot see the A-League sustaining 14 clubs within the next 10 years. Twelve at the ultimate most.

    Nothing's changed. You're exactly right. The viability of Canberra has been ruled out by those in charge. Look at the Brumbies and Raiders. Two clubs who are firmly established in the market. And neither is setting the world alight through their crowds nor financial strength. A brand new club in a brand new sport won't do well.

    (Log in to remove this ad.)

  12. holy diver

    holy diver ΑΩ

    Fremantle
    Other teams:
    Joined:
    Jan 12
    Posts:
    4,370
    Location:
    presidential palace

    Unfortunately it may take a private backer, like a Tony Sage. We have seen what happens though when you get the wrong backer. The Canberra Utd womens team is rather successful. Perhaps that club can in time, with a lot of financial help, good management and support from the A-League hierarchy enter a mens team into the A-League.

    Could New Zealand support another A-League team? Seems unlikely but it may be another option. Everyone knows they are rugby mad but surely they have a decent national grass roots soccer set up?
  13. Puddy

    Puddy Team Captain

    Port Adelaide
    Other teams:
    Ade.Utd.SOCCER club
    Joined:
    Apr 08
    Posts:
    2,387
    Location:
    Adelaide
    New Zealand have a pretty strong Soccer following, it would probably be wise to have another team in NZ
  14. mojito

    mojito misfortune comes in threes...

    Adelaide
    Other teams:
    Adel. Utd, Manc. Utd, Molde FK
    Joined:
    Feb 10
    Posts:
    4,907
    Location:
    Adelaide
    NZ Knights failed, and they were based in Auckland. Any future NZ team needs a tonne of research behind it.

    Besides, AFC have been on our back from having Phoenix in the Legue as it is ('cos they're not part of AFC). Until NZ make the jump over to Asia, it's a problem thats not going to go away.
  15. coolknot

    coolknot Debutant

    Western Bulldogs
    Other teams:
    Liverpool, Melbourne Heart, Boston
    Joined:
    Nov 09
    Posts:
    1,202
    Location:
    Melbourne
    If NZ moves to Asia, the OFC will be absolute s***.
  16. Normy132

    Normy132 Senior List

    Collingwood
    Other teams:
    Joined:
    Sep 10
    Posts:
    1,533
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I wouldn't be surprised if NZ and a few others got absorbed into Asia, the rest went to North America and they got rid of the OFC. It would just make the whole thing a lot simpler.
  17. holy diver

    holy diver ΑΩ

    Fremantle
    Other teams:
    Joined:
    Jan 12
    Posts:
    4,370
    Location:
    presidential palace
    It would benefit NZ Football to be in the Asia Confederation. More games against quality opponents. Time for them to get on board as well. Perhaps the whole of Oceania needs to be absorbed into the AFC. The AFC is so big it could be halved into two divisions or perhaps a West Asian and East Asian Confederation. Just a thought.
  18. Puddy

    Puddy Team Captain

    Port Adelaide
    Other teams:
    Ade.Utd.SOCCER club
    Joined:
    Apr 08
    Posts:
    2,387
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Maybe a West Adelaide team?
  19. Bradesmaen

    Bradesmaen Club Legend

    Fremantle
    Other teams:
    SJ Sharks/Everton/NY Jets
    Joined:
    Apr 07
    Posts:
    18,896
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Adelaide can't have two teams. Perth can't have two teams. Sydney can barely have two teams and Brisbane can't have two teams. If they expand past 10.. it will be ridiculous. They never should have expanded past the 8 so fast when some clubs were still struggling. Putting a 2nd "Melbourne" team in was one of the worst decisions, in terms of calling it Melbourne and having it based in Melbourne. Victory had almost the entire Football supporter base behind it and that meant the Heart were always going to struggle to get numbers across and still do struggle.
  20. Punt Road Feral

    Punt Road Feral Team Captain

    Richmond
    Other teams:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Joined:
    Aug 07
    Posts:
    1,794
    Location:
    In the backline
    Gold Coast could've been ok, a side that got 7-8k averages but Clive did a few no no's when bringing in a new side.

    -Slagging off the no. 1 team in the area (Titans)
    -Saying his side will "take over" the other codes
    -Having the most expensive seats on average out of any other a-league side
    -Introducing a crowd cap which went down real well with potential supporters after just 3 home games
    -Having far too expensive seats for the clubs first game against Fulham. Because of the price only 11k turned up (still ok) but Clive should've taken his losses and tried to sell out Skilled Park with cheaper seats. If they got 20k that night many more wouldve come back because they bet the EPL side 2-1 that night too.
    -Taking away a friendly that was supposed to be at in Lismore (i think) on the far north NSW border. Supposedly there is a big catchment of junior players in the region which is about a hour or so from Gold Coast and he immediately rubbed across these locals in the wrong way.

    All these are very valid reasons why fans felt alienated by Gold Coast United in the early stages of its inception.
  21. Silent Alarm

    Silent Alarm Is your bed made? Is your sweater on?

    Fremantle
    Other teams:
    Arsenal
    Joined:
    Jul 10
    Posts:
    10,648
    Location:
    Melbourne via WA
    I agree that almost all cities cannot support two teams.

    Melbourne is an amazing city for sport. It's unlike many others. How many cities in the world have so many sports consistently attended? There's a huge amount of AFL clubs, relatively speaking, and the support is very strong for all of them. A city like London or New York, with bigger populations, has no sports culture of the kind. I think Melbourne Heart should exist. But they need to market their club somehow. Victory are established. But the Heart aren't. I'd like to see them as the club for inner city, younger, more "fashionable" supporters. Whereas the Victory could attract fans from all over the state (and into Canberra and Tasmania, they could, and should, and probably are, a bit like Collingwood).

    Brisbane cannot sustain two clubs. But, Queensland can. I don't think North Queenslanders will be active fans of the Roar. However, if the Fury were more lucky in investment, it could've worked. To give them a connection to the sport could have resulted in a decent investment. I mean, how many Gosford people would be fans of Sydney? I don't think many. To ingrain the Fury into the psyche and culture of Townsville could have resulted in success. Not Victory-size crowds; more so a reasonable consistency of 8-9k. Totally sustainable and totally acceptable.

    Sydney is, apparently, 'two cities'. Even then, many seem to think Sydney is strong in its boundaries, and is actually in four or five sections. Nonetheless, a kid in Penrith won't go to a Sydney game. But a kid in Penrith will go to a game in Paramatta. It is the bogan capital of Australia. From what people have said, the socio-economics indicate that a trip to Sydney City isn't possible for most. Make it a 20 minute train trip away, and I'm sure they'll have a club no worse than say... the Roar.

    Sydney FC is very weird though. The cross section of their citizens indicates that they attend events – like Auckland. It'll be a long time until they get 25,000 averages.
  22. AJ_2000

    AJ_2000 Team Captain

    Essendon
    Other teams:
    Socceroos, Man Utd
    Joined:
    Mar 07
    Posts:
    883
    Location:
    Right Here.... Right Now.
    I'll post about my concerns in the West Sydney in 2012 thread.
  23. Silent Alarm

    Silent Alarm Is your bed made? Is your sweater on?

    Fremantle
    Other teams:
    Arsenal
    Joined:
    Jul 10
    Posts:
    10,648
    Location:
    Melbourne via WA
    If FIFA were headed by someone respectable (I know, what a dream) it would have occurred already. It's a pointless tier. It's basically on tier with the VIVA World Cup...

    New Zealand could also stagnate without quality opponents. The opportunities that would open through Asian football are obvious.

    Could NZ have an AFC Champions League spot? As I understand, you need 10 clubs in your league. But do you have to be fully pro?
  24. Freomaniac

    Freomaniac All Australian

    Fremantle
    Other teams:
    Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
    Joined:
    May 07
    Posts:
    6,994
    Location:
    Parts Unknown


    If I had it my way Id stick to 10 teams for next season and see what how much money the A-league can get in their next tv rights deal after the 2012-13 season.
  25. holy diver

    holy diver ΑΩ

    Fremantle
    Other teams:
    Joined:
    Jan 12
    Posts:
    4,370
    Location:
    presidential palace
    That would make the most sense. The A-League would like to promote stability when negotiating the next TV rights deal. There has been a lot of hemorrhaging from the failed expansion teams. The A-League needs to get it's house into order before even considering expansion.