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Discussion in 'Football Australia' started by Dirty Bird, Mar 1, 2012.
...Will Brisbane rename themselves the Queensland Roar again?
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I guess they could, but I don't think they will.
They won the Championship as Brisbane Roar and that name for them has much more recognition.
So what was the point of those two teams? Millions wasted down the drain. The A-League needs to stop propping up teams everywhere without any research, planning and development otherwise this will continue to happen. At least they didn't rush in the new western Sydney team, but the only thing stopping western Sydney from having a soccer team was insufficient A-League funds, otherwise they probably would also die out. Who's next? Melbourne Heart?
Wouldnt shock me if the FFA fast track a West Sydney team (my nickname would be - Debarcle). Biggest mistake they can make would be to add another team at such short notice.
Why would it be worse than the situation now?
A West Sydney team will be the 10th team, guaranteed. The only question mark is whether it will be ready for next season, or have to wait out one season before been able to join (meaning 9 teams for season 8).
But as long as the decision has been made before the TV negotiations hot up, that won't be a huge burden.
If the FFA go into negotiations with only 9 teams on the horizon, that would be an unimitigated disaster.
I find it kind of strange they persevered with the original eight teams making losses in the first five or so seasons but then only gave NQF two years and then gave them the boot.
I think both of them were just poor management. There's no other way to say why they failed. Both had solid populations with a potential market. It wasn't executed properly.
I reckon there's a chance they'll bring back GCU in some format (new owner perhaps) but they'll most likely fastrack West Sydney which is a REALLY bad move.
Keep GCU, FFA to run it for one year and look for a backer. Good kids and team, just get them community involved and lift the damn cap. Huge region of potential football fans. Cant give up on it because of one idiot.
Add Canberra FFS. They have already 3,000 members ready to go without starting a club. Will be the only sport they mainly have, have facilities and backers. Nations capital. Get them in.
Get your Western Sydney in too if you must then Lowy. Just make sure it is set up right and not run by an idiot.
There, 12 team comp. Keeping Gold Coast, adding Canberra and Western Sydney.
Next phase, reintroduce Townsville (not North Queensland) and Tasmania (Call them Hobart or wherever it will be based).
14 teams, build on that. Develop that. Nurture that. It will be enough for years.
Adelaide, Brisbane, Canberra, Central Coast, Gold Coast, Melbourne Heart, Melbourne Victory, Newcastle, Perth, Sydney, Tasmania, Townsville, Wellington and Western Sydney. That covers most of Australia. Come at me TV rights deal. Come at me sponsors.
No relegation system, but introduce an FFA Cup from all comps around Australia. Have a knock out comp in each state including the A League teams from that state, then advanced to the next round introducing first and second place from each state. That will re generate interest in the lower levels knowing teams will get there chance in the sun and go against the Big Boys. Participation will grow, sponsors from everywhere will get behind the lower teams. Fox Sport will show all the games.
The A League has issues, but can be improved. Do it smart and it could be a beast.
Really? Two of the three expansion teams have been given the boot and you want to add FOUR more on top of the 10?
Thing about Canberra having a team, back in the NSL, they had the Canberra Cosmos FC. They didn't last long.
What's changed in the nations capital that makes them a sustainable location to have an A-League club?
They, the FFA, gave North Queensland Fury more than two seasons.
The owners of North Queensland gave the club two seasons. When the honeymoon was over, they realised the hardships involved. Owning, running, having a competent football club is hard. When this became evident, they jumped ship. The FFA could not afford, nor did they want, to prop up the side. There was an ultimatum, as I'm sure you know. Unfortunately, the cash goal wasn't met. The rest is history.
I believe the FFA saw Gold Coast United as permanent. At least, back when NQF died. They had a cashed up owner with a club playing well. The on-field issues could be addressed later –*but they never were.
And to be honest, I never had a problem with Clive then. He paid money for some good footballers, brought home a consistent Socceroo, brought them finals success. All this belief that is boasting (about going unbeaten) and it's effect in killing crowds is nonsense. Who thinks "oh, this owner's arrogant. I'm not going to watch my club because the owner's confident!". The market was fickle. Palmer responded decently. He's a businessman. That crowd cap was just saving money. His later, more recent, antics are abhorrent, I accept that. But who could really see a dummy spit this huge coming?
Look, the original problem with GCU wasn't Clive. It was always the fickle market of the town. Nobody cared about the club. They were averaging poor crowds within their first few competitive games. This was before a crowd cap, before Clive acting insane. You're deluded if you believe that GCU could continue. In any capacity, the club is flawed, as is the market. It won't happen. I'd hate to see the FFA lose more money on something that cannot be revived.
Lowy doesn't really want a Western Sydney. He owns parts of Sydney. He basically has that city in his mind, and that club (SFC) in mind. To lose potential money, support, and sponsorship to WS wouldn't be within his interests. You don't seem to realise this. So, I kind of find it hard to take what you say seriously.
I cannot see the A-League sustaining 14 clubs within the next 10 years. Twelve at the ultimate most.
Nothing's changed. You're exactly right. The viability of Canberra has been ruled out by those in charge. Look at the Brumbies and Raiders. Two clubs who are firmly established in the market. And neither is setting the world alight through their crowds nor financial strength. A brand new club in a brand new sport won't do well.
Unfortunately it may take a private backer, like a Tony Sage. We have seen what happens though when you get the wrong backer. The Canberra Utd womens team is rather successful. Perhaps that club can in time, with a lot of financial help, good management and support from the A-League hierarchy enter a mens team into the A-League.
Could New Zealand support another A-League team? Seems unlikely but it may be another option. Everyone knows they are rugby mad but surely they have a decent national grass roots soccer set up?
New Zealand have a pretty strong Soccer following, it would probably be wise to have another team in NZ
NZ Knights failed, and they were based in Auckland. Any future NZ team needs a tonne of research behind it.
Besides, AFC have been on our back from having Phoenix in the Legue as it is ('cos they're not part of AFC). Until NZ make the jump over to Asia, it's a problem thats not going to go away.
If NZ moves to Asia, the OFC will be absolute s***.
I wouldn't be surprised if NZ and a few others got absorbed into Asia, the rest went to North America and they got rid of the OFC. It would just make the whole thing a lot simpler.
It would benefit NZ Football to be in the Asia Confederation. More games against quality opponents. Time for them to get on board as well. Perhaps the whole of Oceania needs to be absorbed into the AFC. The AFC is so big it could be halved into two divisions or perhaps a West Asian and East Asian Confederation. Just a thought.
Maybe a West Adelaide team?
Adelaide can't have two teams. Perth can't have two teams. Sydney can barely have two teams and Brisbane can't have two teams. If they expand past 10.. it will be ridiculous. They never should have expanded past the 8 so fast when some clubs were still struggling. Putting a 2nd "Melbourne" team in was one of the worst decisions, in terms of calling it Melbourne and having it based in Melbourne. Victory had almost the entire Football supporter base behind it and that meant the Heart were always going to struggle to get numbers across and still do struggle.
Gold Coast could've been ok, a side that got 7-8k averages but Clive did a few no no's when bringing in a new side.
-Slagging off the no. 1 team in the area (Titans)
-Saying his side will "take over" the other codes
-Having the most expensive seats on average out of any other a-league side
-Introducing a crowd cap which went down real well with potential supporters after just 3 home games
-Having far too expensive seats for the clubs first game against Fulham. Because of the price only 11k turned up (still ok) but Clive should've taken his losses and tried to sell out Skilled Park with cheaper seats. If they got 20k that night many more wouldve come back because they bet the EPL side 2-1 that night too.
-Taking away a friendly that was supposed to be at in Lismore (i think) on the far north NSW border. Supposedly there is a big catchment of junior players in the region which is about a hour or so from Gold Coast and he immediately rubbed across these locals in the wrong way.
All these are very valid reasons why fans felt alienated by Gold Coast United in the early stages of its inception.
I agree that almost all cities cannot support two teams.
Melbourne is an amazing city for sport. It's unlike many others. How many cities in the world have so many sports consistently attended? There's a huge amount of AFL clubs, relatively speaking, and the support is very strong for all of them. A city like London or New York, with bigger populations, has no sports culture of the kind. I think Melbourne Heart should exist. But they need to market their club somehow. Victory are established. But the Heart aren't. I'd like to see them as the club for inner city, younger, more "fashionable" supporters. Whereas the Victory could attract fans from all over the state (and into Canberra and Tasmania, they could, and should, and probably are, a bit like Collingwood).
Brisbane cannot sustain two clubs. But, Queensland can. I don't think North Queenslanders will be active fans of the Roar. However, if the Fury were more lucky in investment, it could've worked. To give them a connection to the sport could have resulted in a decent investment. I mean, how many Gosford people would be fans of Sydney? I don't think many. To ingrain the Fury into the psyche and culture of Townsville could have resulted in success. Not Victory-size crowds; more so a reasonable consistency of 8-9k. Totally sustainable and totally acceptable.
Sydney is, apparently, 'two cities'. Even then, many seem to think Sydney is strong in its boundaries, and is actually in four or five sections. Nonetheless, a kid in Penrith won't go to a Sydney game. But a kid in Penrith will go to a game in Paramatta. It is the bogan capital of Australia. From what people have said, the socio-economics indicate that a trip to Sydney City isn't possible for most. Make it a 20 minute train trip away, and I'm sure they'll have a club no worse than say... the Roar.
Sydney FC is very weird though. The cross section of their citizens indicates that they attend events – like Auckland. It'll be a long time until they get 25,000 averages.
I'll post about my concerns in the West Sydney in 2012 thread.
If FIFA were headed by someone respectable (I know, what a dream) it would have occurred already. It's a pointless tier. It's basically on tier with the VIVA World Cup...
New Zealand could also stagnate without quality opponents. The opportunities that would open through Asian football are obvious.
Could NZ have an AFC Champions League spot? As I understand, you need 10 clubs in your league. But do you have to be fully pro?
If I had it my way Id stick to 10 teams for next season and see what how much money the A-league can get in their next tv rights deal after the 2012-13 season.
That would make the most sense. The A-League would like to promote stability when negotiating the next TV rights deal. There has been a lot of hemorrhaging from the failed expansion teams. The A-League needs to get it's house into order before even considering expansion.