Would you ever risk your life for your liberties?

[Smiling Buddha]

You probably won't read about it in your 'news'papers or see any segments about it on your nightly 'news' telecast but yesterday was an historic day for the citizens of the United States. Do you think that the following photos suggest this might well be a newsworthy incident?

The tl;dr here is that a rancher in Nevada named Cliven Bundy has refused to pay grazing taxes to the federal government, as he does not accept that they have legitimate claim to the public land he grazes cattle on. After years of taking him to court over the matter, a federal agency called the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) decided to start stealing his cattle. Thanks to the internet, he got the word out, and people rallied to his support after seeing footage of law enforcement officers tazing his son. Soon the whole thing went viral in the non-MSM and armed citizens descended upon the ranch to provide moral and armed support to the rancher, in order to prevent a Waco-style massacre. The feds then created '1st Amendment zones' (which the entire country is supposed to be, but I digress) and allegedly cut off communication towers in an attempt to black the incident out. The BLM threatened to shoot the protestors and the following video shows what happened when this threat was tested.



This incident is far from over. The feds' retreat is likely a tactical one. An authoritarian government cannot be seen to be weak; they'll be back. However, some are trumpeting this as the beginning of something huge and it is not hard to see why. THE FEDS BACKED THE * DOWN when faced with an armed citizenry who were willing to fight not just for their own rights but for what they see as the constitutional rights of their fellow citizens. This is a big deal not just for the US but any country with close ties to her - like Australia, for instance.

I recommend you do your own research into this incident. Note that reading/watching MSM accounts does not qualify as research, unless it is done merely in attempt to understand the propaganda TPTB are feeding to the blunt-minded masses.

Which leads me to my question: Could you ever see yourself risking your life to defend principles such as liberty? Or perhaps you think that those who take up arms against tyrannical government are fruitloops who ought to be shot? Something in between? All views welcome as long as they are respectful of other posters.

Over to you, bigfooty.

 

[LukasTheGreat]

Good to see. We need to atleast make the government aware that they can't just do what they please.

 

[Footypie32]

Will be interesting to see what long term effect this will have on their gun laws. Surely the US government won't want a repeat of this situation.

People should never ever be shot or threatened at gun-point over taxes.

 

[Gough]

As an Australian what liberites am I guaranteed?
I'm almost ready to write-off America, things are getting crazier and crazier over there, I'd like to see Australia the Non-Aligned Movement.

 

[JD11]

what liberties does a dead man have?

 

[JuddsABlue]

Which leads me to my question: Could you ever see yourself risking your life to defend principles such as liberty? Or perhaps you think that those who take up arms against tyrannical government are fruitloops who ought to be shot? Something in between? All views welcome as long as they are respectful of other posters.

Over to you, bigfooty.

You've come to the wrong place if you want to get accurate answers on this question

An internet forum where anybody can be anbody they want are hardly going to say "No, I'd lie down in the face of my government"
You'll only get an accurate answer to this question in a real life scenario, which I assume you would already know, so my question to you is, what are you actually trying to get at here? You are well aware your question is pointless and the debate that will follow will be mostly fantasy.

 

[JuddsABlue]

In an attempt to answer your question truthfuly, I'll start by quoting this

what liberties does a dead man have?

Would I 'risk' my life? Well it depends on the actual risk. I wouldnt 'risk' surviving a gunshot wound, but I would risk putting myself in a situation where I trust the authourities not to shoot me

Sharks didnt evolve by crawling onto land and eating lions, and I wont evolve by taking a peace sign to a gun fight.

In short, we shouldnt have to risk our lives to defend our liberties. There are other, non voilent avenues in this country to make our voices heard.

If I were in a country where my life would be at risk for protesting against something then I would most likely denounce my citizenship and leave that country

 

[BALKAN]

So he wants to graze his cattle on public land without paying a permit that everyone else has to pay?
You don't own land just because you say so, without having any proof.

This story just tells me that Yanks are happy to get their guns out for anything.

 

[Messenger]

So he wants to graze his cattle on public land without paying a permit that everyone else has to pay?
You don't own land just because you say so, without having any proof.

This story just tells me that Yanks are happy to get their guns out for anything.

This was on FOX. Bundy's assertion is that the land is owned by the county. This is a States rights issue.

 

[Roobs321]

When parking inspectors have the license to kill, and the deceased are charged for said killing, then maybe.

 

[Long Live HFC]

You probably won't read about it in your 'news'papers or see any segments about it on your nightly 'news' telecast

i heard of it first in the murdoch press.

The tl;dr here is that a rancher in Nevada named Cliven Bundy has refused to pay grazing taxes to the federal government, as he does not accept that they have legitimate claim to the public land he grazes cattle on.

so really, people should be able to raise arms because they "don't accept" something? note that the courts have ruled against him, so are you saying that if you don't like what the court says, arming yourself is a legitimate alternative?

After years of taking him to court over the matter, a federal agency called the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) decided to start stealing his cattle.

you mean after years of violations of court orders, the BLM have confiscated the cattle in question.

law enforcement officers tazing his son.

good.

Soon the whole thing went viral in the non-MSM and armed citizens descended upon the ranch to provide moral and armed support to the rancher, in order to prevent a Waco-style massacre.

when everyone in reality knows that such actions can actually increase the chances of a "WACO-style massacare". but anyway...

An authoritarian government cannot be seen to be weak;

so "authoritarian" they took 2 decades and multiple court actions prior to this. what would YOU expect/desire the next action to be?

However, some are trumpeting this as the beginning of something huge and it is not hard to see why.

angry racist bogans with guns everywhere will be ready to go?

THE FEDS BACKED THE **** DOWN when faced with an armed citizenry who were willing to fight not just for their own rights but for what they see as the constitutional rights of their fellow citizens. This is a big deal not just for the US but any country with close ties to her - like Australia, for instance.

they backed down because nobody wants to make the call to shoot a bunch of idiots. which "constitutional rights" are they defending btw? the rights not to pay taxes? the rights to ignore court rulings? the rights of ignorant bogan *s to arm themselves to the teeth to get their own way?

I recommend you do your own research into this incident. Note that reading/watching MSM accounts does not qualify as research, unless it is done merely in attempt to understand the propaganda TPTB are feeding to the blunt-minded masses.

which piece of information have you provided in this post that i couldn't find in the "MSM" exactly?

 

[clogged]

Nah, probably not. Quite like living.

I do like how the text after the tl;dr is longer than the text preceding it.

 

[bkozican]

so really, people should be able to raise arms because they "don't accept" something? note that the courts have ruled against him, so are you saying that if you don't like what the court says, arming yourself is a legitimate alternative?

you mean after years of violations of court orders, the BLM have confiscated the cattle in question.

when everyone in reality knows that such actions can actually increase the chances of a "WACO-style massacare". but anyway...

so "authoritarian" they took 2 decades and multiple court actions prior to this. what would YOU expect/desire the next action to be?

angry racist bogans with guns everywhere will be ready to go?

they backed down because nobody wants to make the call to shoot a bunch of idiots. which "constitutional rights" are they defending btw? the rights not to pay taxes? the rights to ignore court rulings? the rights of ignorant bogan ****s to arm themselves to the teeth to get their own way?

which piece of information have you provided in this post that i couldn't find in the "MSM" exactly?

so really, people should be able to raise arms because they "don't accept" something? note that the courts have ruled against him, so are you saying that if you don't like what the court says, arming yourself is a legitimate alternative?

So your saying the government can just walk onto any said land and just say "well we own that, you have to pay taxes to operate on it"
Yea ok mate, Great logic on that one.

when everyone in reality knows that such actions can actually increase the chances of a "WACO-style massacare". but anyway...

I dont see any other way. He has tried the court system and this was the outcome

they backed down because nobody wants to make the call to shoot a bunch of idiots. which "constitutional rights" are they defending btw? the rights not to pay taxes? the rights to ignore court rulings? the rights of ignorant bogan ****s to arm themselves to the teeth to get their own way?

Do you think it has stopped the US police force before. I would say NOPE, the only reason these guys backed down was because the world was watching. It says in the report that they blacked out communication. If there was no video and the cops started shooting.....Who would you believe ? Dont answer that actually I already know your answer

 

[Long Live HFC]

So your saying the government can just walk onto any said land and just say "well we own that, you have to pay taxes to operate on it"
Yea ok mate, Great logic on that one.

bundy is required to pay grazing fees to BLM just like every other grazer in the country that uses BLM land. it has been this way since 1936 when the act was passed. the rights are leased and if you don't pay you lose your lease. the lease expired in 1998 and the lease was bought by clark county. they did so and then deliberately didn't graze cattle on it because it was part of a conservation plan (it protected desert tortoise habitat apparently).

but billy bob and his gun-toting mates didn't want to abide by rules that everyone else has to follow. they're not being ignorant selfish *s, they're "fighting for our liberties, man!".

I dont see any other way. He has tried the court system and this was the outcome

are you even listening to yourself? if a court makes a ruling you disagree with, on what basis do you bring the guns out? who adjudicates such issues exactly? let's say i reckon you owe me $100 but the court says you don't. is it ok to bust out the weapons and make you pay? who or what makes the farmer's actions "right"?

Do you think it has stopped the US police force before.

of course not.

the only reason these guys backed down was because the world was watching.

that's what i said.

It says in the report that they blacked out communication. If there was no video and the cops started shooting.....Who would you believe ? Dont answer that actually I already know your answer

who would i believe about what exactly?

 

[NSWCROW]

I turned on FOX NEWS the other night for my yearly 30 seconds of that crap ( hoping for a merv at Jamie Colby's legs ) , and this was the story they were covering.
Guess i know who old mate voted for last election.

Wonder what a right-leaning government would do ??........................................

 

[LukasTheGreat]

So he wants to graze his cattle on public land without paying a permit that everyone else has to pay?
You don't own land just because you say so, without having any proof.

This story just tells me that Yanks are happy to get their guns out for anything.

Why does the Government own land? How is that even allowed? It's just crazy to even comprehend a government (or anyone) is trying to own 'land'.

Did you know they had to bring put a law stating no one is allowed to own the moon? WTF is wrong with this piece of s**t legal s**t hole of a planet we live in.

HUMANS AREN'T GODS, WE CANT KEEP CLAIMING EVERYTHING.

Rant over, how are you anyway BALKAN?

 

[Gough]

Why does the Government own land? How is that even allowed? It's just crazy to even comprehend a government (or anyone) is trying to own 'land'.

Did you know they had to bring put a law stating no one is allowed to own the moon? WTF is wrong with this piece of s**t legal s**t hole of a planet we live in.

HUMANS AREN'T GODS, WE CANT KEEP CLAIMING EVERYTHING.

Rant over, how are you anyway BALKAN?

You gotta mortgage man?

 

[LukasTheGreat]

You gotta mortgage man?

Negative

 

[Smiling Buddha]

lol @ the desert tortoise angle.

Come on 'long live hfc', if you are going to spread disinformation in every thread that questions growing state power here and abroad, at least stick to the parts of the script that aren't so laughable.

What do you have to say about Senator Harry Reid's connections to Chinese developers who plan to use the land in question for large-scale development? What do you have to say about 'First Amendment Zones' being placed around the protest site? What do you have to say about the 'No Fly Zone' which has been imposed above the area in question?

And please, try to answer without denigrating or marginalising any of the innocent protestors involved or posters in this thread.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I would have chosen "you've lost the plot SB", but I'm not sure if you were ever in possession of it.

It's a hard one though, true that. We're born into a society, and over time it's evolved into the style of organisation it has. Sure as hell isn't perfect... but are we all born with the right to step outside of it whenever the hell any of us please? Might result in anarchy.

Like to think that any widespread injustice causes a proper backlash from the people eventually, as opposed to lone crusades.

As for the constant "oh all your lives are ****ed and you don't even know it!!!" Well that's just egocentric shite borne some some belief that your outlook on the world is right and everybody else's is wrong. Live and let live.

 

[Messenger]

lol @ the desert tortoise angle.

You have cherry picked what he just posted. Are you able to address the legal aspects of this argument?

If someone loses in court, should they have the right to take up arms to dispute that decision?

 

[Gough]

The whole you can't tell me what to do crowd, have become a lot more vocal in the last few years in Australia. I had hoped libertarianism was one of the more fringe isms and would be confined to America, where at least their constitution somewhat legitimises their existance.

 

[TW_Gangee]

Why does the Government own land? How is that even allowed? It's just crazy to even comprehend a government (or anyone) is trying to own 'land'.

Did you know they had to bring put a law stating no one is allowed to own the moon? WTF is wrong with this piece of s**t legal s**t hole of a planet we live in.

HUMANS AREN'T GODS, WE CANT KEEP CLAIMING EVERYTHING.

Rant over, how are you anyway BALKAN?

Jesus dude. Would it be ok for me to come to your house and take a giant dump on your couch? Get a grip.

 

[LukasTheGreat]

Jesus dude. Would it be ok for me to come to your house and take a giant dump on your couch? Get a grip.

So it's okay for humans to legally claim the earth and it's land? What gives us that right?

 

[BALKAN]

So it's okay for humans to legally claim the earth and it's land? What gives us that right?

Yes, because humans invented the whole concept of ownership and legalities.
In the context of the universe and things beyond our knowledge it's probably meaningless, but until something more powerful than us comes along to take it away from us the Earth belongs to us.