Opinion Yes we can win the 2015 flag

[WWSD]

The addition of Clark for Geelong has filled that center half forward/second ruck spot. He's 200cm but surprisingly mobile for a player of that size. I can see the Geelong forward line as the most improved area next year and a player like Shane Kersten will now become that third tall forward and he'll also benifet with the addition of Clark alongside him inside 50.

I've tipped Geelong to again feature deep into September in 2015 and a top four spot is likely with a injury free and fit playing list.

 

[iameviljez]

In all seriousness, given your straight sets capitulation in the finals, how long do you expect the rebuild to take?

(Given that you are probably the 7th best team and on the slide)

I disagree, I thought fifth was about right. Not as good as Port, Sydney, Freo or Hawthorn, but better than North, Essendon and Richmond (despite losing to North in the semifinal).

It could take four-five years, and if it's not that, it'll be ten because after four-five years Hawkins and Selwood will start to slide.

 

[Topper Harley]

In all seriousness, given your straight sets capitulation in the finals, how long do you expect the rebuild to take?

(Given that you are probably the 7th best team and on the slide)

Very thinly veiled troll.

 

[mcwilrob]

Is this a troll thread?

Here is a quick analysis of our list

Rucks - 2 injury prone no1 rucks neither good enough currently to compete with the best, no2 rucks = blicavs who isn't good enough to compete with the best no2 rucks. We basically have the worst ruck list in the comp.

Midfield - Lacking enough good inside mids, Caddy, GHS and Guthrie are 2-4 years from competing with the top midfields. Johnson is almost cooked and Christensen is injury prone. We do have some good outside mids but the midfield as a group lacks enough quality.

Defence - Good KPDs but too many and all are too slow. Our defence is too old and slow as a group. Thurlow and Bews aren't going to be guns next year. If Brown/Hamling come in for Mackie neither has enough experience.

Forwards - Basically Hawkins. Brown/Kersten/Vardy/Walker are too young and inexperienced to have an impact in finals. Bartel is cooked. Murdoch doesn't do enough. McCarthy isn't experienced enough.

Our list consists of 9 guys over 29 who have been there and done that, they are old and battered. We have 4 guys in Simpson, Menzel, Cowan and Vardy who are pretty much always injured and little chance to come good (certainly wont be next year). Another big part of our list is too young and inexperienced.

Port, Hawthorn, Sydney and Freo are all much better than us. We wouldn't come close to any in a final.

We are probably on par or below the likes of North, WCE, Adelaide and GC.

If we go with the oldies next year and pickup Frawley/Clark or whoever we might finish 3rd at best(with few injuries).

If we do the right thing and play kids over oldies then we will most likely miss finals.

A much more realistic summation than some of the "pie-in-the-sky" posts on here . We got a top four position this year on the back of just getting over the line in many close games. Our second halves were mostly very poor. Finals showed us where we are really at and it wasn't pretty. We need to do what Hawthorn have done and recruit well and bring in needed players to make us competitive with the best again.

 

[Claude Balls]

Hawthorn had far from everything go right this year. Neither did we in 2009 especially.

Don't kid yourself. Hawthorn is the luckiest team in any sport in the world in the history of sports. It always comes together for them when it matters. Injury wise. Cameo roles from players who've previously been injured wise. Young guys playing well in finals wise etc.

That's what I'm telling myself anyway.

 

[Claude Balls]

The addition of Clark for Geelong has filled that center half forward/second ruck spot. He's 200cm but surprisingly mobile for a player of that size. I can see the Geelong forward line as the most improved area next year and a player like Shane Kersten will now become that third tall forward and he'll also benifet with the addition of Clark alongside him inside 50.

I've tipped Geelong to again feature deep into September in 2015 and a top four spot is likely with a injury free and fit playing list.

I have very strange emotions when a Hawthorn supporter comes in here and says something nice.

 

[Vdubs]

I have very strange emotions when a Hawthorn supporter comes in here and says something nice.

I personally have not come across any Hawthorn supporters who are anything but nice.
JIM annoys me, but have never set eyes upon him.
(I imagine him to be Hodgepodge!)

 

[mcwilrob]

I personally have not come across any Hawthorn supporters who are anything but nice.
JIM annoys me, but have never set eyes upon him.
(I imagine him to be Hodgepodge!)

Not been to any Hawthorn Geelong games then?....

 

[Bobby_]

with a injury free and fit playing list.

That will be the key.
I think most Cat supporters should refrain from doing their ladder predictions until one week before the season begins again. Because that way we shall know who won't be getting in a full preseason and who has broken down just weeks before kick off.

This year was a terrible year for injuries. Vardy does his ACL on the training track, Kersten requires minor knee surgery, Motlop flies overseas to have immediate knee surgery, Allen Christensen hurts his back, Billie Smedts fractures his leg, Josh Caddy breaks his foot, and even guys on the cusp like Mitch Brown, Taylor Hunt & George Burbury missed months because of shoulder/groin/jaw surgery.
Just when we start getting a few guys back later in the year, Simpson is gone!

Just can't afford to have similar go wrong next year if we are to expect improvement to the younger generation as there's no team harmony with so many blokes coming in and out of the side every week.
Here's hoping . . .

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Cues in the rack, seriously, then Port got a sniff, and hard to arrest it.
Hawthorn was clearly the superior team, Port played to their max in the last Q, doesn't matter that they kicked themselves out of it before that.
It was a real lesson for Hawthorn, which they very obviously learned from.

That is very debatable. More scoring shots, more inside 50s, more marks inside 50. If Port took its chances, Hawthorn probably would have been staring at a five goal deficit at quarter time.

 

[Vdubs]

Not been to any Hawthorn Geelong games then?....

All of them. Why did you remind me? The jeering and clapping and comments as Geelong fans left early in that last final was off. But I'm talking real-life contacts.

 

[Vdubs]

That is very debatable. More scoring shots, more inside 50s, more marks inside 50. If Port took its chances, Hawthorn probably would have been staring at a five goal deficit at quarter time.

Hawthorn had/have the capacity to rise to every occasion this year, when it counted. Despite a sluggish start, they accounted for Port pretty well, until the last 8 minutes.
I'm still not sold on Port yet, time will tell, but I can't see them improving on this year's efforts.

 

[WWSD]

That will be the key.
I think most Cat supporters should refrain from doing their ladder predictions until one week before the season begins again. Because that way we shall know who won't be getting in a full preseason and who has broken down just weeks before kick off.

This year was a terrible year for injuries. Vardy does his ACL on the training track, Kersten requires minor knee surgery, Motlop flies overseas to have immediate knee surgery, Allen Christensen hurts his back, Billie Smedts fractures his leg, Josh Caddy breaks his foot, and even guys on the cusp like Mitch Brown, Taylor Hunt & George Burbury missed months because of shoulder/groin/jaw surgery.
Just when we start getting a few guys back later in the year, Simpson is gone!

Just can't afford to have similar go wrong next year if we are to expect improvement to the younger generation as there's no team harmony with so many blokes coming in and out of the side every week.
Here's hoping . . .

Clark is the ideal fit because he fills that forward and second ruck role. One thing the Cats have lacked since Brad Ottens retired was a ruckman who can push forward and kick goals regularly and the addition of Clark, plus Vardy returning will give Geelong a vastly different forward line compared to this year.

Out of this years top four teams, the Cats have the most scope for improvement.

 

[Teriyakicat]

you think Wingard (21), Wines (19), Trengove (23), Hartlett (24) and Hombsch (21) will stagnate or perhaps go backwards next year?

If they happen to draft in Paddy Ryder, they then have the ability to move one of those rucks forward for long stretches at a time. Both have shown how incredibly agile they are at ground level. Only way they don't improve is if injuries really hit them hard cos they right now have the team capable of playing finals footy for the next 4, 5, 6 years.

They were literally bullying Hawthorn in the final 10 minutes of the game. Hawthorn had absolutely no answer whatsoever. It was one of the most awesome sights I think I've seen for some time.

since the first half of our last H&A game against the Hawks?

 

[Vdubs]

you think Wingard (21), Wines (19), Trengove (23), Hartlett (24) and Hombsch (21) will stagnate or perhaps go backwards next year?

If they happen to draft in Paddy Ryder, they then have the ability to move one of those rucks forward for long stretches at a time. Both have shown how incredibly agile they are at ground level. Only way they don't improve is if injuries really hit them hard cos they right now have the team capable of playing finals footy for the next 4, 5, 6 years.

They were literally bullying Hawthorn in the final 10 minutes of the game. Hawthorn had absolutely no answer whatsoever. It was one of the most awesome sights I think I've seen for some time.

Good points.
It's a pretty easy thing for me to back a Frawley added Hawks team for 2015 though, despite not being totally enamoured with Frawley, yet. He may really blossom in such a team.
Port unlike Adelaide, do seem to be improving a little each year, and their mids/prime movers are young.
And they have Robbie Gray.
Interesting times.
The fact that we selected Clark- they must believe our window is still wide open, OR....

 

[Vdubs]

Clark is the ideal fit because he fills that forward and second ruck role. One thing the Cats have lacked since Brad Ottens retired was a ruckman who can push forward and kick goals regularly and the addition of Clark, plus Vardy returning will give Geelong a vastly different forward line compared to this year.

Out of this years top four teams, the Cats have the most scope for improvement.

That is a nice comment, and probably true, but very dependent on 6-7 proven IFFY players.
Vardy
HMc
Clark
Simpson
Christensen
Motlop
(Menzel)

And, as I have to keep reminding myself, we were NOT a top 4 team- ended up 5th.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Clark is the ideal fit because he fills that forward and second ruck role. One thing the Cats have lacked since Brad Ottens retired was a ruckman who can push forward and kick goals regularly and the addition of Clark, plus Vardy returning will give Geelong a vastly different forward line compared to this year.

Out of this years top four teams, the Cats have the most scope for improvement.

While you're here, who is the guy that recruits for you? (Free Agent/Trade)

He has to be the best in the biz by a fair amount I reckon.

 

[Cataholic]

I have very strange emotions when a Hawthorn supporter comes in here and says something nice.

Yeah, posted along same lines before.

When I see a Hawthorn poster I bristle ready for some snide, sarcastic comment but WWSD takes the wind out of my sails every time.

Always observant, respectful and concise with constructive comments.

Sheesh.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

While you're here, who is the guy that recruits for you? (Free Agent/Trade)

He has to be the best in the biz by a fair amount I reckon.

Graeme Wright, isn't it?

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Clark is the ideal fit because he fills that forward and second ruck role. One thing the Cats have lacked since Brad Ottens retired was a ruckman who can push forward and kick goals regularly and the addition of Clark, plus Vardy returning will give Geelong a vastly different forward line compared to this year.

Out of this years top four teams, the Cats have the most scope for improvement.

I see where you're coming from, but I think that getting a very good first ruckman would solve the second ruck problems via the trickle-down effect. Trent West was looking like a very handy second ruck when he was paired with Ottens, then he had to take the #1 mantle on his own (I'm not sure he rucked with a better pure ruckman than himself for the remainder of his time at Geelong) and while he generally held his own at the stoppages, the rest of his game, all that 'second ruckman' stuff, suffered, because he had to put all his focus on getting to the next stoppage (he routinely played without a recognised second ruckman). If Simpson becomes a quality first ruck, as he was threatening to become in 2013, that means Vardy, Clark, Walker, Blicavs or whoever (possibly even McIntosh) can be the second ruck and all look pretty well suited to that role. I think it's a lot easier to find a second ruckman, the 'ruck that can play forward a bit', or the 'forward that can ruck a bit' than it is to find a legitimate top 5-6 first ruckman.

 

[Jon Douglas]

GFC supporters need to fully realise that there are other good clubs out there doing good things to make their team and organisation better.

For us, especially as we have a smaller supporter base than the big clubs, means we have to be even better to be able to compete. And we have been. We were a sensational club RELATIVE to those we were competing with. We had it all - the best recruiter, a fantastic President, the best CEO, excellent coaches and a few injuries (compared to what has happened in the last 3 years). It was our time and 3 Premierships is full testament to those facts.

On the field this translated to having the best backline and the best midfield in the land and a reasonable forward line.

But we have been caught in many areas today and at least 4 clubs were better than us IMO - Hawks, Swans, Port and Freo. We performed well in the H&A but were exposed in the finals. Again injuries played another key role in our finals campaign. No SJ or Bundy hurt - and Motlop was not 100 % fit. The loss of those 3 would have hurt any team - but even with them I doubt we were anywhere near the Top teams. Maybe on our day we could win but really we are not in the same class anymore.

If you add Simpson, Vardy and Menzel - assuming all were playing decent footy and had 50 senior games experience, then maybe we could have been a contender. But we cannot be sure Simpson will make it (although personally if he stays fit and gets games I think the odds are still in his favour), Vardy is hardly bullet proof or a proven CHF or ruck at AFL level, and Menzel may never play again.

We need deal with reality. Right now we are very unlikely to be a Premiership threat next season. Clark, if we can get him, is I think a decent start to the trade period. But we need to compete well, even better than our rivals, in trading. But Frawley going to Hawthorn (and costing them nothing) makes them stronger and maintains the gap between the two sides.

We have more gaps and inexperience in more players than they do.

We need to look well ahead and work hard to get ahead of the issues that we have and are coming.

I assume Clark will ruck as that is probably our weakest in the team. In finals we were hurt by opposition ruckman and that has been the case for a while. So maybe in tandem with an improving Blitz as second ruck - we will have a more competitive ruck unit. And that helps our other major weakness - the midfield and clearances. Maybe a better ruck unit will mean we win half a dozen more clearances and that is 6 less then for the opposition and we break even more in this area.

More clearances for us means more forward line entries and less work for our backline. So it is vital we get back some midfield ascendency if we are to be a Premiership threat.

So GFC need to also find a serious clearance machine - then if Vardy works out at CHF - our other main structural problem) - then we will be a serious contender.

For me Clark is a good start but alone will do little to get us closer to Hawthorn and alike teams. We need another coup and some young players to play out of their skins for us to win a premiership in 2015.

 

[Bobby_]

The fact that we selected Clark- they must believe our window is still wide open, OR....

I'm starting to have negative thoughts as of late so when I heard we were after Clark and subsequently aquired his services, I immediately thought we have no confidence in one of the other blokes bodies holding up. Either that be Vardy, McIntosh or Simpson, so one of them may be on the outer.

Then again, it's strange to replace one injury prone player with another, which is exactly what Clark is.

 

[Partridge]

I guess so and comparisons to Ottens are similar in my opinion, although Ottens did boot 50 goals one season while pulling down nearly 3 contested marks in each one of those games so he always had that natural forward brilliance which was innate from an early beginning.
Also a much larger frame, stood 202cm & weighed in at roughly 106kg's. Clark not so, he's a little smaller than Vardy but a naturally better tap ruckman.
I just hope he has not lost much of his athleticism, foot and hamstring injuries can be a real concern for big blokes in particular. The club must have ensured he went through a strenuous medical though so hopefully you are right, if he could get back to somewhere near his best, we improve immediately in ruck and forward.

No doubt. Although I think people forgot that the year Ottens kicked 46 goals (2001), he was only 21 years of age, and I'm guessing a little lighter than he was at Geelong. He was still a legimitate forward option. Once he came to us - even though for a while we all thought of him as a key forward - in reality he had become a ruckman. Thankfully the club eventually worked that out, and it's not often you can pinpoint the exact moment, but with him you can.

 

[Bangers and Mash]

http://m.geelongcats.com.au/news/2014-10-02/premiership-aspirations-are-still-alive.mobileapp

Love what the skipper and coach were saying last night!
I have faith we will be top four again next year! And from that position, who knows.....

 

[Jon Douglas]

If Clark is 75 - 80 % the ruckman Ottens was - we will be happy I think with his acquisition. If he is injury prone we will all lament the acquisition. Maybe that is why Frawley would have been a better get - no injuries and at no cost re a trade. Maybe Mitch Clark will cost a less than Frawley would have in terms of dollars - so does allow another player to be picked in the trade period this year or next.

His wage will be largely paid by HMac retiring next season (you would think) - so we only need find the money for a year.

I keep thinking with Lonergan, Kelly, Hmac and Corey all probably retiring at next season's end - we will have a fair bit of cash and senior spots for to land another decent free agency fish and keep giving Wells a decent number of picks.

I know we will need pay Blitz and Duncan more - and a few others - but you would still think that we would have some room in the salary cap coming up next season and maybe for the next 2-3 seasons.

It also means we need to see and know more about some of our players. Thurlow, Bews, Kersten, McCarthy and Vardy come to mid. WE surely want to be able target a player to fill an important hole in the side. If some of these guys will make it then we have filled a few vacancies and we can better target what we need.