Opinion Youngsters leaving the Cattery

[Bobby_]

Anyone else concerned about what is currently transpiring down at Geelong?

We are losing young players like never before. Christensen, Hartman, Walker (rumored to be traded), Hamling and now Jansen has asked to be traded.
There were murmurings about Kolodjashnij mid year and thank goodness we were able to hold onto Motlop.

Why are we getting rid of players who have hardly been given an opportunity?
And why are we so eager to hold onto players who have less than a few years of football remaining?

 

[JUBJUB]

Anyone else concerned about what is currently transpiring down at Geelong?

We are losing young players like never before. Christensen, Hartman, Walker (rumored to be traded), Hamling and now Jansen has asked to be traded.
There were murmurings about Kolodjashnij mid year and thank goodness we were able to hold onto Motlop.

Why are we getting rid of players who have hardly been given an opportunity?
And why are we so eager to hold onto players who have less than a few years of football remaining?

Christensen couldn't keep it in his pants and got himself in trouble off field.Nothing the club could do about it unless they put a chasity belt on him

Hartman was just a lazy bugger.How the heck has he got a job at the N.A.B ?
"Excuse bank teller.......WAKE UP !!!"

Hamling couldn't get a game after 3 or 4 years so looked elsewher.Fair enough.

Jansen - maybe he thinks games should be handed to him.Dunno but I don't think he'll be a big loss.



Now what's your next drama saga Queenie ?

 

[Cataholic]

Anyone else concerned about what is currently transpiring down at Geelong?

We are losing young players like never before. Christensen, Hartman, Walker (rumored to be traded), Hamling and now Jansen has asked to be traded.
There were murmurings about Kolodjashnij mid year and thank goodness we were able to hold onto Motlop.

Why are we getting rid of players who have hardly been given an opportunity?
And why are we so eager to hold onto players who have less than a few years of football remaining?

Not bothered by any of those losses to be honest Bobby.

All have occurred because they have lacked elite ability, the necessary drive, or the moral fortitude.

 

[Bobby_]

Christensen couldn't keep it in his pants and got himself in trouble off field.Nothing the club could do about it unless they put a chasity belt on him

Hartman was just a lazy bugger.How the heck has he got a job at the N.A.B ?
"Excuse bank teller.......WAKE UP !!!"

Hamling couldn't get a game after 3 or 4 years so looked elsewher.Fair enough.

Jansen - maybe he thinks games should be handed to him.Dunno but I don't think he'll be a big loss.



Now what's your next drama saga Queenie ?

A lot of of rumors and innuendo in this post JUB.

You need to be careful what you say as it could come back to bite you on the butt.
We may never find out the truth behind why Bundy left but he ended doing alright at Brisbane this year after a slow start. It's very deflating watching a future 200 gamer do his thing while our swap in that trade sat out the year due to a broken foot.

 

[cats_09]

Not concerned at all, because other than Christensen none that have asked for trades or walked away from the club are certain best 22 players.

- Christensen was 23 when he asked to be traded, so hardly one of the "young" players, he had his own agenda and it seems from all accounts that not too many at the club were upset with him leaving.
- Hartman left to go home and party with his mates. Not sure how serious he was about his footy at a younger age, but for young guys in their late teens/early 20s, unless they are 100% focused and intent on making a career out of footy, when they see their mates partying & drinking on weekends which isn't an option for them most of the season, due to the discipline required it can be a choice they have to make - mates or footy. Hartman chose his mates, so if that is how serious he took his footy before his 3rd season even started, not sure he is much of a loss, other than meaning a year of development we couldn't get into someone else.
- Hamling had 3 years on the list and couldn't break into the side for a senior match. Maybe he would have got an opportunity this year or maybe he would have just sat behind a few others - good luck to him at the Dogs, hope things work out for him.
- Jansen, I said my bit on him in the thread dedicated to him. If he doesn't want to earn his spot then let him go, I would rather players who want to play for the club and want to earn their games, compared to just feeling entitled to game time.

- Walker, hasn't gone yet and no indication from the club that they want him out. If we put a contract to him, but someone else offers more and he leaves for money, then not much we can do if we have tried to keep him.
- Kolo, said he was unsure where he sat at the club mid-season, but that games late in the season helped him feel that he belonged and had a future at the club. He earned his games and didn't look out of place, and I'm glad he is staying.

I don't think its a case of the club getting ride of players who have hardly been given an opportunity - from what I can tell, Hamling & now Jansen are the only guys to not debut for the club who have either gone to another team or asked for a trade to another team.

As for keeping guys who have less than a few years left, its all about team balance - can't get rid of guys just cause they have turned 30 or its felt they may only have 2 years left so better dump them early to get 2 more years into a youngster; its all about balance and the newer generation also needs to learn from the older players, watch how they play, how they train and see what is required to play senior footy.

Maybe the better question compared to "why are we getting rid of younger players" is "why do young players today feel entitled to play senior footy compared to earning their spot in the team?". And that isn't just an AFL thing but a life question - the younger generation today want it all and they want it now; the first house has to be 3/4 bedrooms, double garage blah blah blah, while still buying new car/s and going on overseas holidays every year. I'm only 31, but people my age & younger do seem to feel a sense of entitlement, rather than wanting that sense of achievement.

 

[UnitedWarrior93]

This thread is a massive overreaction.

 

[Daniel McL]

Speaking of younger players, let's talk about how all draftees from 2014 (Cockatoo, Gregson, Gore & Cunico) already got their contracts extended until end of 2017.

2013 Draft, Jansen leaving yes, but Lang & Kolodjashnij re-signed.

2012, Hartman left yes but not because of the club, Thurlow re-signed.

Geelong have done a fantastic job with the younger guys.

 

[Bobby_]

Maybe the better question compared to "why are we getting rid of younger players" is "why do young players today feel entitled to play senior footy compared to earning their spot in the team?". And that isn't just an AFL thing but a life question - the younger generation today want it all and they want it now; the first house has to be 3/4 bedrooms, double garage blah blah blah, while still buying new car/s and going on overseas holidays every year. I'm only 31, but people my age & younger do seem to feel a sense of entitlement, rather than wanting that sense of achievement.

This is a very good post.
I agree with what you say but then again, you also have to look at Jansen's side of things. We have seen in past how players have been treated. Trent West spent a long time battling in the VFL before getting his chance and actually did ok but once McIntosh came in, he was sent back and eventually left to find more opportunities at Brisbane.

Joel Hamling improved each year in the VFL. I think he finished runner up in the B&F in his final season but as we saw with McIntosh, once we brought in Rivers, he was never going to get a game. It made matters worse watching Kelly or Bartel play a role in defence for which Hamling would have been fully capable of playing.

Jansen, Gore, Horlin-Smith . . . they are midfielders who win contested footy, apply non stop tackles and are solid individuals who can stand up in tackles. With Mathew Stokes clearly on the decline, along with Kelly, you can't begrudge those guys for getting a little confused when they put in some good performances only to be overlooked by blokes on their final legs, or outside runners when he already had an abundance of them in the team already.
And if they did improve next year, they likely wouldn't get a game anyways as Dangerfield and Selwood are going to be here. No footballer wants to spend three or four years in the VFL.
Most of our greats of the last decade didn't have to spend that much time in the VFL. They got ample opportunities in the AFL for which they were able to develop.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Anyone else concerned about what is currently transpiring down at Geelong?

We are losing young players like never before. Christensen, Hartman, Walker (rumored to be traded), Hamling and now Jansen has asked to be traded.
There were murmurings about Kolodjashnij mid year and thank goodness we were able to hold onto Motlop.

Why are we getting rid of players who have hardly been given an opportunity?
And why are we so eager to hold onto players who have less than a few years of football remaining?

Jansen's asked to be traded?
maybe he sees the writing on the wall with the likely addition of Dangerfield to the midfield...

the other examples are pretty disparate; Christensen and Hartman both walked due to off-field issues.
Walker hasn't gone yet.
Hamling, well I was a bit of a fan of his and was really surprised when he got the chop; he's since done very well with the Bulldogs and so far that one is looking like a stuff-up.

Walker, if he does go, will fall victim to the club's decision to trade in both Mitch Clark and to a lesser extent Rhys Stanley.
It was nearly a year ago when people on this board were going nuts for the potential acquisition of Clark.
Stanley was and probably remains an enigma.
But Walker has had opportunities - at least compared to Hamling - and this is how he's gained enough currency to be considering his options, if they aren't more or less decided for him.

There were some who were arguing that Kolodjashnij's potential outweighed that of Hamling's and that's the way the list managers decided to go; but I don't see why both couldn't have been retained. Fact is Hamling, good as he was in the VFL - and he showed a ton of potential I thought - just couldn't get past in-form players like Harry Taylor, Tom Lonergan and Andrew Mackie. By the time his opportunity may have finally come along, he was at another club and Kolo made his own strong impression at AFL level.

As for 'holding onto players who have less than a few years of football remaining'; it's a fine line - just a few years ago we were lauding the vintage 'too old, too slow' Cats of 2011, many of whom had less than a few years of football remaining.

Overall I don't think there's too much of an issue here; player movement is at all-time high and young entitled punks are gonna go seeking there opportunities elsewhere if they're not getting games in the hoops.

If we can jag a half-decent ruckman to go with Dangerfield next year (not fussed on Henderson either way tbh) then I reckon our list looks in decent shape, with a core of players verging on their prime in Duncan, Blicavs, Caddy, Motlop and Guthrie.

The loss of Christensen really hurt, he played some good footy with a very ordinary Lions side this year, and he would have really topped off the aforementioned group. But it's hard to plan for stuff like that - on the flip side, Dangerfield's pending decision to return to his roots would very much balance the ledger.

 

[00VicWard001]

Anyone else concerned about what is currently transpiring down at Geelong?

We are losing young players like never before. Christensen, Hartman, Walker (rumored to be traded), Hamling and now Jansen has asked to be traded.
There were murmurings about Kolodjashnij mid year and thank goodness we were able to hold onto Motlop.

Why are we getting rid of players who have hardly been given an opportunity?
And why are we so eager to hold onto players who have less than a few years of football remaining?

Not concerned in the least.

The only thing that the list of players that you mentioned have in common are that they are young. Everything else is different, so there really is no trend to try and scrutinise, analyse, dissect or find fault with.

Bundy - had personal issues.
Hartman - was unable to commit to elite football.
Walker - gets a greater opportunity elsewhere and is surplus to what we have.
Hamling - wasn't suitable to Geelong's style.
Jansen - wants opportunity ahead of what the coaches think that he deserves.

I note that you didn't mention Thurlow, Gregson, Bews, Smedts, Murdoch, Blicavs and Cockatoo signings? They are young players too. And they seem to love being part of the club.

Mention of Kolodjashnij and Motlop are irrelevant as both signed on. It is standard that good players consider offers from other clubs.

And if you really think about it, Mots got more cash thrown at him than he got with the Cats (from all media reporting) and Kolo probably had the opportunity to live close to his brother. These are far stronger lures than the usual - yet they stayed and signed on. Doesn't this signify that the culture is quite strong?

 

[Cezz The Catter]

To be honest i'm not concerned at all our last 2 years of draft crop and the income of a few experienced players will bolster our depth better. Even though we should always look after our kids, we don't really need to spam the major 'panic' button for another few years again.

 

[00VicWard001]

And if they did improve next year, they likely wouldn't get a game anyways as Dangerfield and Selwood are going to be here. No footballer wants to spend three or four years in the VFL.

I think you just answered your own question....

Jansen could see the writing on the wall with the inclusion of Danger and SSelword. If he gets an offer from Brisbane to earn cash and play senior footy, why wouldn't he or shouldn't he take it?

 

[Bobby_]

I note that you didn't mention Thurlow, Gregson, Bews, Smedts, Murdoch, Blicavs and Cockatoo signings? They are young players too. And they seem to love being part of the club.

I didn't include those recent signings because they are exactly that, have only been on the list for one year.
Kolodjashnij, Hamling, Walker, Horlin-Smith, Bews, Thurlow, they spent 2-3 years in the VFL and are a lot further back than what they could be today.

If Blicavs and Murdoch were given ample time in the AFL without exactly setting the world on fire, why can't others get such opportunities?

 

[ChookNorris]

also we drafted 4 mids last year... all of which singed extensions. in their first year. happy to earn it.

 

[Cataholic]

I didn't include those recent signings because they are exactly that, have only been on the list for one year.
Kolodjashnij, Hamling, Walker, Horlin-Smith, Bews, Thurlow, they spent 2-3 years in the VFL and are a lot further back than what they could be today.

If Blicavs and Murdoch were given ample time in the AFL without exactly setting the world on fire, why can't others get such opportunities?

Not everyone is equally talented.

Simple fact of life is that some must spend more time in the trenches than others.

That said, the appraisal of talent is always in the eye of the beholder.

 

[cats_09]

I didn't include those recent signings because they are exactly that, have only been on the list for one year.
Kolodjashnij, Hamling, Walker, Horlin-Smith, Bews, Thurlow, they spent 2-3 years in the VFL and are a lot further back than what they could be today.

If Blicavs and Murdoch were given ample time in the AFL without exactly setting the world on fire, why can't others get such opportunities?

If we didn't play Blicavs over the 2013 & 2014 seasons, we probably would have been using Stokes as our ruck.

One aspect that probably helped Blicavs and Murdoch to an extent was lack of competition for their spots. Blicavs has been a filler in the ruck over his 3 seasons, occasionally down back and we saw this year he could impact games in the midfield, but then had to revert to playing as the teams #1 ruck.

For Murdoch, maybe his biggest competition was someone like Smedts, especially last year where Mudoch seemed to slip into the forward half of the ground in a role similar to what Smedts played in 2013, but with him out injured with a broken leg, they decided to give Murdoch an extended run to see what he could do. While he was hit & miss at times last year, I thought he stepped up this year and he deserved his games - yes he was quiet at times, but so were all our players at different stages of the season.

 

[Bobby_]

If we didn't play Blicavs over the 2013 & 2014 seasons, we probably would have been using Stokes as our ruck.

One aspect that probably helped Blicavs and Murdoch to an extent was lack of competition for their spots.

so why couldn't Jansen get a look in when Duncan, Bartel, Kelly were missing throughout the year?
We were hit hard by injury to the midfield this year.

 

[FredLeDeux]

so why couldn't Jansen get a look in when Duncan, Bartel, Kelly were missing throughout the year?
We were hit hard by injury to the midfield this year.

Because no matter how good those 3 are, you can only replace each of them with one young player, not two at a time.

 

[Pivo]

so why couldn't Jansen get a look in when Duncan, Bartel, Kelly were missing throughout the year?
We were hit hard by injury to the midfield this year.

Bob, perhaps you are skirting around the obvious answer.

He isn't considered good enough.

I would tell anyone who would listen about Schroder and sat in disbelief every time he was passed over for a gig.

Eventually I had to accept that he just wasn't up to it no matter how much I thought (or wanted to believe) he was.

It might be just that simple.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

so why couldn't Jansen get a look in when Duncan, Bartel, Kelly were missing throughout the year?
We were hit hard by injury to the midfield this year.

The weekend of June 20-21 we were beaten by Melbourne. That was VFL round 10. It is noted that he struggled that day.

http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Ratings/Player/118816/Jarrad-JANSEN

From that point in the season where we were struggling for players he had a 2nd best for us (R10), 6th best (R13), 1st best (R17) but earlier than that he was recovering from an injury and played 4 games prior to R10 and was in the best players in 2 of those games.

Wasn't in the best players in R 12, 14, 15, 16, 18, 19, 20.

Simply it appears as though he wasn't playing well enough or consistent enough for senior selection for most of the season.

 

[cats_09]

so why couldn't Jansen get a look in when Duncan, Bartel, Kelly were missing throughout the year?
We were hit hard by injury to the midfield this year.

Because Jansen was also injured at the start of the season and returning from injury - he needed to find fitness and form before he could come into selection talks.

His first VFL game for the year was May 9, he played 7 games prior to our scheduled AFL bye and he was named in the 25 to take on Adelaide; Bartel was already out injured at the time of Jansen's return to the VFL and Bartel returned on July 11; Duncan didn't break his foot until 16 May and returned 18 July; and Kelly only missed 2 weeks after his incident against Richmon which saw him return May 22, but then he missed rnd 12 vs the Demons.

What that shows is that there was time during Bartel's & Duncan's injury for him to push his case for a debut, and he got close with being named in the squad for the canceled Crows match. Our first VFL match for the year was April 17, if he was fit to go from that stage and had an extra 2 or 3 matches under his belt at the time of injuries to Duncan & Bartel, maybe he would have got a chance, but maybe he was just starting behind a couple of other guys and not able to push past them.

Its interesting to look at Jansen's VFL stats for the season, because out of his 16 matches he was named in the best on 5 occassions - bog twice, 2nd bog twice and then 6th; so seems that he was either great in matches or missing; is it a lack of fitness or conditioning, a lack of consistency on part maybe?

 

[rooie]

so why couldn't Jansen get a look in when Duncan, Bartel, Kelly were missing throughout the year?
We were hit hard by injury to the midfield this year.

because he isn't very good.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

The only best 22 in that is Chrstiensen, so no don't think it's a big deal.

We've signed up the rest of the list bar JJ, not a big loss.

 

[AM]

Christensen couldn't keep it in his pants and got himself in trouble off field.Nothing the club could do about it unless they put a chasity belt on him

Hartman was just a lazy bugger.How the heck has he got a job at the N.A.B ?
"Excuse bank teller.......WAKE UP !!!"

Hamling couldn't get a game after 3 or 4 years so looked elsewher.Fair enough.

Jansen - maybe he thinks games should be handed to him.Dunno but I don't think he'll be a big loss.



Now what's your next drama saga Queenie ?

Do we now have a new DQ clubhouse leader then JJ?

 

[FredLeDeux]

Do we now have a new DQ clubhouse leader then JJ?

He's not just the clubhouse leader, he's almost worn out the green jacket.