Why has everyman and his dog tipped Brisbane for top 4 this year??

[Bring-Back-Powell]

What's the obsession with every bigfooty scribe putting Brisbane in the top 4 in their ladder predictor.
Now even footy experts like myself are prone to making the odd mistake here and there, but I personally can't see the Lions finish that high.

What has changed since last year that warrants such a lofty expectation:

*Johnny Brown's 2007 will be hard to replicate
*No other serious options up forward considering they want to play Bradshaw at CHB
*Travis Johnstone will not be the answer. His immaculate kicking skills are offset by his laziness and turnovers.
*Black, Power and especially Lappin are not getting any older.
*Their round 7-14 losing streak was concerning.

What are your thoughts on the Lions for 2008?

 

[cs61]

1 team from outside the top 8 normally make the top 4 the following year.

Brisbane seem the best team from last years bottom 8.

They are a big chance for top 4.

 

[cs61]

What's the obsession with every bigfooty scribe putting Brisbane in the top 4 in their ladder predictor.
Now even footy experts like myself are prone to making the odd mistake here and there, but I personally can't see the Lions finish that high.

What has changed since last year that warrants such a lofty expectation:

*Johnny Brown's 2007 will be hard to replicate

He's still the most dangerous forward in the country.

*No other serious options up forward considering they want to play Bradshaw at CHB

Have Brennan, and a few young players like Clark. They have scoring options.

*Travis Johnstone will not be the answer. His immaculate kicking skills are offset by his laziness and turnovers.

Surrounded by other gun midfielders he'll be a star

*Black, Power and especially Lappin are not getting any older.

Black and Power are still at the top of their game, Lappin is still very effective. I don't why people mention the age of midfielders when they are still playing very very well.

*Their round 7-14 losing streak was concerning.

Their winning streak when they got their good players back, they looked a real force until Hawthorn stopped their finals run.

What are your thoughts on the Lions for 2008?

Good side, with a good mix of youth and experience.

 

[Master of Cooks]

I don't have them in my top 4. But i think they will make the eight.
Based on J Brown having a full season and Bradshaw coming back strong to give Brown a hand. Plus they have an elite midfield.

 

[Niximus]

*Black, Power and especially Lappin are not getting any older.

Brisbane has the fountain of youth?

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

It's pure guess work where anyone will finish. Anyone who thinks they know is full of crap.

 

[DanA]

What's the obsession with every bigfooty scribe putting Brisbane in the top 4 in their ladder predictor.
Now even footy experts like myself are prone to making the odd mistake here and there, but I personally can't see the Lions finish that high.

What has changed since last year that warrants such a lofty expectation:

*Johnny Brown's 2007 will be hard to replicate
*No other serious options up forward considering they want to play Bradshaw at CHB
*Travis Johnstone will not be the answer. His immaculate kicking skills are offset by his laziness and turnovers.
*Black, Power and especially Lappin are not getting any older.
*Their round 7-14 losing streak was concerning.

What are your thoughts on the Lions for 2008?

* Jonothan Brown has reportedly had his first full preseason in 5 years
* Clarke, Hooper, Brennan and McGrath should all improve
* Travis Johnstone finally give them an outside midfeilder they needed
* Adcock, Proud, Sherman, Rischitelly, Selwood & Stiller are going to improve
* There 5 W and a draw in the last 9 rounds was impressive.

 

[MinerBoy]

*Black, Power and especially Lappin are not getting any older.

Yes they are.

 

[Bollox]

Its because they're hard to predict this yr. Well coached and an improving list only a few yrs after 3 flags makes some overestimate them.

They could finish top 4 or bottom 4...which is why i sat on the fence and said 8-9th

 

[mango]

sheep tend to stick with the herd...

top 8? maybe, top 4? no

 

[mango]

*Black, Power and especially Lappin are not getting any older.

& they manage this how?

 

[pazza]

Good forward line.
Excellent midfield supplied by very good quality ruckmen.
Reasonable defence.
And of course - a bloke called Leigh Matthews in the box.

 

[Troy Wingate]

I don't have Brisbane finishing Top 4. I'd have them finishing between 6th to 12th.

My top four:

Geelong
Port Adelaide
North Melbourne
Sydney

Followed by:
Hawthorn
Collingwood
St. Kilda
Brisbane

Bottom 8: (in no particular order)
Essendon
West Coast
Western Bulldogs
Fremantle
Carlton
Melbourne
Richmond
Adelaide

 

[Croat tiger]

& they manage this how?

I want to know their secret too.

 

[Zeke]

*Black, Power and especially Lappin are not getting any older.

Did they get hold of Lynch's leftover juice?

 

[Rockford]

My dog said that Brisbane won't finish top 4. He reckons it'll be, in no particular order, Cats, West Coast, Hawks and Bulldogs. But he's a doggies supporter so I wouldn't take his Bulldogs prediction too seriously.

 

[Grimreepah]

I think the confidence in Brisbane is based on their improvement last year. At the start there were a lot of question marks and by the end a number of players had improved significantly, and the side played some very good football.

With Browny in the side all we need is a half decent team and we are going to be competitive. We now have a decent team. However we are vulnerable in a few areas, and a long term injury to Brown, Charman or Merrett will really hurt us.

 

[didak04]

I don't think it is an entirely ridiculous prediction to make. The competition looks set to be incredibly even again this season, theres every chance that a team like Brisbane could finish that high

 

[JerryWexler]

1 team from outside the top 8 normally make the top 4 the following year.

I'd argue that it happens every year. In fact only twice since 2000 has a team from the bottom 4 made the top 4. Port Adelaide in 2001 and the Kangaroos in 2007. And both those teams for whatever reason played well below their capabilities in 2006 and were streets better than what they put out that year.

Actually I think I've stuffed this post up. Whatever, my point still stands.

 

[Fevalution]

This is IMPOSSIBLE for me to see. I have actually rated them bottom six for a finish, but looking at their list and expectations compared with others it could be worse.

There are say 5-6 teams expected to be certain top eight finishes (Collingwood, Geelong, Hawthorn, Kangaroos, Port Adelaide, West Coast). I've then thrown in Fremantle to once again have a shot at the flag like last year, even though what happened...simply showing them as the improvers. Fighting out the last spot in the eight is very difficult, but I just don't rate Brownbane. These teams are Adelaide, Carlton, Essendon, St Kilda and Western Bulldogs, along with Brisbane capable of eighth spot.

Also, looking at the lists, Richmond have a solid chance in being better than Brisbane...and my wooden spoon prediction of Melbourne are capable due to their bad luck last year.

So...why don't I rate Brisbane a chance?

1) Their list - Travis Johnstone arrives into an already sluggish midfield that has seen better days. Johnstone is into his 11th year, and has seen his peak, which should've been higher as a no.1 draft pick. Nigel Lappin was one of their best and consistent players last year, he is well into his thirties now, and can't be the no.1 midfielder...as for another elite player in Simon Black, well, he may have come runner up in the Brownlow, but injured pre-season and also into double digits for years at the senior level may play a part. As for their depth, its ordinary for my liking. Too many inconsistency across players.

2) Ruckman - They've lost Beau McDonald after the drafts, and before the season starts...he was still valuable to their structure. They traded Cameron Wood to the Pies and got an aged midfielder in return. Matthew Leuenberger is good, but had only 6% HOA last year over the whole season...thats 6 every 100 hitouts...1/2 the ruckman get 7 a game. Jamie Charman...well, he's had his prime too and will squeeze out...his agression is good, but stupid...like a Chris Bryan.

3) Inconsistency - Josh Drummond was very good last year, amazingly good playing like Joel Bowden...but this kid is surely no chance to continue that form...he was on the cut list quarter through the season. Jared Brennan didn't want to play football anymore...he played only 4 good games of footy last year anyway, out of 21. Rhan Hooper goes the same...he didnt sign at first, but he is in their best 22, but can't be relied on...as well as in the same team as Ashley McGrath, who may kick a goal every game, but another who can't be relied on. Colm Begley is god up in QLD...don't know why, he's pretty much there defensive leader know that Adcock has been forced to make the midfield look quicker and more efficient. Daniel Merrett gets praised for holding down FB and having the most spoils...as well as having the most scored off him last year.

There form could also be called inconsistent...won first two...lost next two...won next two...then didn't win between rnds 7-13 (7 games without a win)..then won five on the trot...the didnt win the last four games (notice anything?)

4) One man show - Jonathan Brown played a full-season and Brisbane still didnt make the finals...if he breaks down, then there buggered. He is the no.1 forward target in the game. Having a 30 yo veteran in Bradshaw to return as a utility doesn't exactly provide assistance..he is coming off a reco, playing since 1997, his 12th year coming up. As for Henderson...surely you can't require a man to be a key to success in his first year, he still isn't a Forward, but a Utility. He impressed NAB Cup as he had the ball sent to him 20 times, but has failed in the other two PS games.

5) Leigh Matthews - I thought Jared Brennan, Justin Sherman and Matthew Moody would be gun players now...but Brennan is inconsistent and never strung 3 games together in his career as he gets swapped around every month. Shermans career (dw bout his injury scare) has been possibly stuffed by Matthews...he comes 2nd in b & f, then disappears to play no game time. As for Moody...Brisbane fans hate him, Matthews obviously has his favourites...and if there was more care, this kid would be best 22 in most teams...and he is for Brisbane, but they don't see it.

6) Culture - Is it stuffed? Akermanis, one of the greats, gets kicked out because he can write...yet Brown has a loud mouth and does ridiculous attention seeking things on TFS. Voss absolutely roots the clubs financial situation with a back end contract...if he was better than Buckley and Hird he would've played that year and atleast be loyal enough to get paid for $900,000 for something...instead he probably got another $200-300k on Channel 10 ($1,200,000 for nothing). Then Beau McDonald walks to screw the side...oh yeah, lets not forget that Richard Hadley didn't sign...Jared Brennan disappeared and Rhan Hooper almost retired

I can't see the Lions making the eight...maybe even top ten

 

[The Flying Belgian]

This is IMPOSSIBLE for me to see. I have actually rated them bottom six for a finish, but looking at their list and expectations compared with others it could be worse.

There are say 5-6 teams expected to be certain top eight finishes (Collingwood, Geelong, Hawthorn, Kangaroos, Port Adelaide, West Coast). I've then thrown in Fremantle to once again have a shot at the flag like last year, even though what happened...simply showing them as the improvers. Fighting out the last spot in the eight is very difficult, but I just don't rate Brownbane. These teams are Adelaide, Carlton, Essendon, St Kilda and Western Bulldogs, along with Brisbane capable of eighth spot.

Also, looking at the lists, Richmond have a solid chance in being better than Brisbane...and my wooden spoon prediction of Melbourne are capable due to their bad luck last year.

<snip>

You've obviously put a bit of time and effort into your post, but perhaps you should take a leaf out of Wittgenstein: "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent". There's many half-truths and blatant lies in your post, sprinkled with a couple of salient points. Just because it's long, it doesn't make it compelling.

I'm sure one of my colleagues with a bit more time of his/her hands will be able shortly to give you a fitting rebuttal.

 

[jaykippa]

This is IMPOSSIBLE for me to see. I have actually rated them bottom six for a finish, but looking at their list and expectations compared with others it could be worse.

There are say 5-6 teams expected to be certain top eight finishes (Collingwood, Geelong, Hawthorn, Kangaroos, Port Adelaide, West Coast). I've then thrown in Fremantle to once again have a shot at the flag like last year, even though what happened...simply showing them as the improvers. Fighting out the last spot in the eight is very difficult, but I just don't rate Brownbane. These teams are Adelaide, Carlton, Essendon, St Kilda and Western Bulldogs, along with Brisbane capable of eighth spot.

Also, looking at the lists, Richmond have a solid chance in being better than Brisbane...and my wooden spoon prediction of Melbourne are capable due to their bad luck last year.

So...why don't I rate Brisbane a chance?

1) Their list - Travis Johnstone arrives into an already sluggish midfield that has seen better days. Johnstone is into his 11th year, and has seen his peak, which should've been higher as a no.1 draft pick. Nigel Lappin was one of their best and consistent players last year, he is well into his thirties now, and can't be the no.1 midfielder...as for another elite player in Simon Black, well, he may have come runner up in the Brownlow, but injured pre-season and also into double digits for years at the senior level may play a part. As for their depth, its ordinary for my liking. Too many inconsistency across players.

2) Ruckman - They've lost Beau McDonald after the drafts, and before the season starts...he was still valuable to their structure. They traded Cameron Wood to the Pies and got an aged midfielder in return. Matthew Leuenberger is good, but had only 6% HOA last year over the whole season...thats 6 every 100 hitouts...1/2 the ruckman get 7 a game. Jamie Charman...well, he's had his prime too and will squeeze out...his agression is good, but stupid...like a Chris Bryan.

3) Inconsistency - Josh Drummond was very good last year, amazingly good playing like Joel Bowden...but this kid is surely no chance to continue that form...he was on the cut list quarter through the season. Jared Brennan didn't want to play football anymore...he played only 4 good games of footy last year anyway, out of 21. Rhan Hooper goes the same...he didnt sign at first, but he is in their best 22, but can't be relied on...as well as in the same team as Ashley McGrath, who may kick a goal every game, but another who can't be relied on. Colm Begley is god up in QLD...don't know why, he's pretty much there defensive leader know that Adcock has been forced to make the midfield look quicker and more efficient. Daniel Merrett gets praised for holding down FB and having the most spoils...as well as having the most scored off him last year.

There form could also be called inconsistent...won first two...lost next two...won next two...then didn't win between rnds 7-13 (7 games without a win)..then won five on the trot...the didnt win the last four games (notice anything?)

4) One man show - Jonathan Brown played a full-season and Brisbane still didnt make the finals...if he breaks down, then there buggered. He is the no.1 forward target in the game. Having a 30 yo veteran in Bradshaw to return as a utility doesn't exactly provide assistance..he is coming off a reco, playing since 1997, his 12th year coming up. As for Henderson...surely you can't require a man to be a key to success in his first year, he still isn't a Forward, but a Utility. He impressed NAB Cup as he had the ball sent to him 20 times, but has failed in the other two PS games.

5) Leigh Matthews - I thought Jared Brennan, Justin Sherman and Matthew Moody would be gun players now...but Brennan is inconsistent and never strung 3 games together in his career as he gets swapped around every month. Shermans career (dw bout his injury scare) has been possibly stuffed by Matthews...he comes 2nd in b & f, then disappears to play no game time. As for Moody...Brisbane fans hate him, Matthews obviously has his favourites...and if there was more care, this kid would be best 22 in most teams...and he is for Brisbane, but they don't see it.

6) Culture - Is it stuffed? Akermanis, one of the greats, gets kicked out because he can write...yet Brown has a loud mouth and does ridiculous attention seeking things on TFS. Voss absolutely roots the clubs financial situation with a back end contract...if he was better than Buckley and Hird he would've played that year and atleast be loyal enough to get paid for $900,000 for something...instead he probably got another $200-300k on Channel 10 ($1,200,000 for nothing). Then Beau McDonald walks to screw the side...oh yeah, lets not forget that Richard Hadley didn't sign...Jared Brennan disappeared and Rhan Hooper almost retired

I can't see the Lions making the eight...maybe even top ten

what a load of absolute crap. obviously you think by recruiting 1 good player carlton will make the 8. and richmond where will they get there big improvement from.both of these teams finished at the bottom fot the last to years, and carlton even more. i think mayb you should concentrate more about thinking what you will write than actually just typing whatever verbal diarrhoea your pea brain thinks of next its quite clear your are carlton supporter who has been saying nothing for the past 5 or so years but noW that the media is giving you a chance you actually think you are a chance of finishing top 8. YOU ARE NOOOOOOOOOOOOO CHANCE.

 

[Thrawn]

but noe that the media is giving you a chance you actually think you are a chance. of finishing top 8. YOU ARE NOOOOOOOOOOOOO CHANCE.

This thread has nothing to do with Carlton.

And as for Brisbane's chances, I reckon they're still a middle of the road side but they have every chance to make the finals providing they're not as inconsistent as they were last year. But top four? Pushing it. Who will they be replacing?

 

[Grimreepah]

I'm sure one of my colleagues with a bit more time of his/her hands will be able shortly to give you a fitting rebuttal.

I think there is an element of truth to points 2, 3, 4, and bits of 1 (although I disagree on most of the specific examples and I think some of the logic is a bit flawed). Point 5 is a matter of opinion, backed up by very selective pieces of info. I disagree and think Leigh is a good coach. Point 6 is a collection half truths and lies. Also it is all negative and doesn't consider any of the positives in Brisbane's 2008 campaign.

 

[dtm06]

This is IMPOSSIBLE for me to see. I have actually rated them bottom six for a finish, but looking at their list and expectations compared with others it could be worse.

There are say 5-6 teams expected to be certain top eight finishes (Collingwood, Geelong, Hawthorn, Kangaroos, Port Adelaide, West Coast). I've then thrown in Fremantle to once again have a shot at the flag like last year, even though what happened...simply showing them as the improvers. Fighting out the last spot in the eight is very difficult, but I just don't rate Brownbane. These teams are Adelaide, Carlton, Essendon, St Kilda and Western Bulldogs, along with Brisbane capable of eighth spot.

Also, looking at the lists, Richmond have a solid chance in being better than Brisbane...and my wooden spoon prediction of Melbourne are capable due to their bad luck last year.

So...why don't I rate Brisbane a chance?

1) Their list - Travis Johnstone arrives into an already sluggish midfield that has seen better days. Johnstone is into his 11th year, and has seen his peak, which should've been higher as a no.1 draft pick. Nigel Lappin was one of their best and consistent players last year, he is well into his thirties now, and can't be the no.1 midfielder...as for another elite player in Simon Black, well, he may have come runner up in the Brownlow, but injured pre-season and also into double digits for years at the senior level may play a part. As for their depth, its ordinary for my liking. Too many inconsistency across players.

2) Ruckman - They've lost Beau McDonald after the drafts, and before the season starts...he was still valuable to their structure. They traded Cameron Wood to the Pies and got an aged midfielder in return. Matthew Leuenberger is good, but had only 6% HOA last year over the whole season...thats 6 every 100 hitouts...1/2 the ruckman get 7 a game. Jamie Charman...well, he's had his prime too and will squeeze out...his agression is good, but stupid...like a Chris Bryan.

3) Inconsistency - Josh Drummond was very good last year, amazingly good playing like Joel Bowden...but this kid is surely no chance to continue that form...he was on the cut list quarter through the season. Jared Brennan didn't want to play football anymore...he played only 4 good games of footy last year anyway, out of 21. Rhan Hooper goes the same...he didnt sign at first, but he is in their best 22, but can't be relied on...as well as in the same team as Ashley McGrath, who may kick a goal every game, but another who can't be relied on. Colm Begley is god up in QLD...don't know why, he's pretty much there defensive leader know that Adcock has been forced to make the midfield look quicker and more efficient. Daniel Merrett gets praised for holding down FB and having the most spoils...as well as having the most scored off him last year.

There form could also be called inconsistent...won first two...lost next two...won next two...then didn't win between rnds 7-13 (7 games without a win)..then won five on the trot...the didnt win the last four games (notice anything?)

4) One man show - Jonathan Brown played a full-season and Brisbane still didnt make the finals...if he breaks down, then there buggered. He is the no.1 forward target in the game. Having a 30 yo veteran in Bradshaw to return as a utility doesn't exactly provide assistance..he is coming off a reco, playing since 1997, his 12th year coming up. As for Henderson...surely you can't require a man to be a key to success in his first year, he still isn't a Forward, but a Utility. He impressed NAB Cup as he had the ball sent to him 20 times, but has failed in the other two PS games.

5) Leigh Matthews - I thought Jared Brennan, Justin Sherman and Matthew Moody would be gun players now...but Brennan is inconsistent and never strung 3 games together in his career as he gets swapped around every month. Shermans career (dw bout his injury scare) has been possibly stuffed by Matthews...he comes 2nd in b & f, then disappears to play no game time. As for Moody...Brisbane fans hate him, Matthews obviously has his favourites...and if there was more care, this kid would be best 22 in most teams...and he is for Brisbane, but they don't see it.

6) Culture - Is it stuffed? Akermanis, one of the greats, gets kicked out because he can write...yet Brown has a loud mouth and does ridiculous attention seeking things on TFS. Voss absolutely roots the clubs financial situation with a back end contract...if he was better than Buckley and Hird he would've played that year and atleast be loyal enough to get paid for $900,000 for something...instead he probably got another $200-300k on Channel 10 ($1,200,000 for nothing). Then Beau McDonald walks to screw the side...oh yeah, lets not forget that Richard Hadley didn't sign...Jared Brennan disappeared and Rhan Hooper almost retired

I can't see the Lions making the eight...maybe even top ten

lol are u serious or just taking the piss?
Next time you say stuff, try and make it at least remotely believable. That has gotta be one of the most ridiculous posts ever.

1) A starting midfeild of Black, Power, Lappin Adcock and Charman is not exactly what i would consider "sluggish". Johnstone won't have a tag up here so should be able to rack up the possesions. Lappin is very consistent but not our no1 mid, that's S. Black. Also once you play over 10 years, you don't suddenly become crap. look at buckley.
Also there is depth. Nowhere near as good as those players mentioned but stiller, rischitelli, brennan, selwood and co provide good rotation.

2) McDonald retiring was a big blow for us and wood wouldn't have been traded if beau had retired before trade week imo. however charman is quality and still only youngish (26ish?). Leuenberger is good and gonna be brilliant but i doubt he can hold down the no1 possy effectively this year should charman get injured. tippet, clark and bennan may be required and if this is the case then you are right, the rucks will be a big problem this year. But if charman stays injury free it won't be a problem.

3) I don't see why drummond would suddenly lose all of his class and not be able to play like he did this year. Don't think he was ever gonna get dropped but he is injury prone. Brennan is inconsistent yes but i think everyone knows that. Hooper had a fantastic year. His issues are well behind him i think. McGrath can go missing but he improved when put into the midfeild last year. lol i dont think colm begley is god and he isn't our defensive leader. he's still trying to make himself a regular starter. Chck your stats on merret. i think youd find he kept his direct opponents relatively quiet especially for a first year FB.
Yes our form was inconsistent but that happens with young teams and we have shown when everything clicks we are very dangerous.

4) Bradshaw, Clark and Brennan should be able to provide adequate assitance. Obviously if brown goes down there is a big hole in the forward line but that just shows how good he is. I imagine Carlton would find it hard if Fev went down. Also Bradshaw is a proven 50+ goal kicker and despite his knee reco should be able to kick a few. And why the hell does it matter if he's over 30? you gotta get this thing out of your head that 30 y/o players aren't good enough.

5) sherman was injured and struggled to reclaim his form. should be in for a good 08. brennan is inconsistent but i don't see what this has to do with leigh matthews. as for moody i don't know what has gone on with him. has never really performed but i bet if there was one man to get him to play his best footy it would be matthews.

6) the aker saga was well over a year ago now. i can't speak for anyone but me but i was ok with him leaving and i can understand why jb was so upset because he has so much pride in the club. I think you'll find the players were united on this issue. Sounds like pretty good culture.
Voss leaving has nothing to do with culture. His body had given all it could and he did the right thing leaving as a champ rather than playing on another year and denying a younger player more experience. To suggest he needed to stay on another year to be considered to be better tan hird and buckley is stupid. buckley hardly played a game last year!
Mcdonalds body as gone. he retired coz he could give no more. It would've been nice if hadly stayed but he was in and out of the side and needed a fresh start and i think most people could appreciate that. already spoke about hooper and brennan.




Also to whoever made this thread, we had a pole on the lions forum a month or so ago just for lions supporters and most thought 5-8. Just interesting to see that we're being talked up more by other teams than ourselves.