Game plan must change or we will never win

[Magnificence]

Firstly I am very excited about what I am seeing in some regards this year. Some real positives include:

- Judd
- Stevens
- Fev
- Bower (looking really talented)
- Jamo
- Special K
- Murph and Gibbs both coming along nicely.

However we are conceeding a ridiculous amount of goals. I for one have never seen a side regularly out numbered in its own backline it is an absolute disgrace.


I reckon Essendon kicked 6 goals from contested spillage in there fwd line when they actually out numbered us... which is similar to what the saints did last week.

I for one think with a more defensive mind set we could easily win 8 to 10 games but this current game style is going to result in opposition teams constantly kicking soft goals making it impossible for us to win

 

[jj1978]

Yes one thing I have noticed is we've become a very one on one in our defensive area... the defenders are relying on other defenders to contain the man they've been assigned to.. no helping out no extra player floating back to help out.

Thornton needs to step up and be more of a general and leader in the backline and help Jamison, Setanta and Bower out a lot more.

Look at our defence in 95... they knew each other in and out and devised their own defensive strategies and calls.

We need to get SOS, Dean, back into the club instead of them being at the Saints or Dogs.... we need them to help teach these defenders.

 

[WeninRome]

ok this is all rubbish! do any of you actually watch the game?

Essendon had over 50 balls that enterted the 50 during the game. At the pace that the ball was coming in the backman were left with nothing to work with.

The accountability and pressure from our forward line and the middle of the ground is horrible. This is the reason why we are getting scored on so heavily.

On numerous amounts of times Essendon had unmarked players floating around the packs and we were the ones going in and under (hence the huge number of clearences in our favour) but what happened was that we made a skill error once we cleared the ball out of the pack and then like a flood of water they worked the ball into their 50, leaving our backman stranded.

guys like stevens, carrazzo, murphy and even judd are not accountable enough and need to help the backline out if we are to not conceed any less than 100 points.

 

[jj1978]

ok this is all rubbish! do any of you actually watch the game?

Essendon had over 50 balls that enterted the 50 during the game. At the pace that the ball was coming in the backman were left with nothing to work with.

The accountability and pressure from our forward line and the middle of the ground is horrible. This is the reason why we are getting scored on so heavily.

On numerous amounts of times Essendon had unmarked players floating around the packs and we were the ones going in and under (hence the huge number of clearences in our favour) but what happened was that we made a skill error once we cleared the ball out of the pack and then like a flood of water they worked the ball into their 50, leaving our backman stranded.

guys like stevens, carrazzo, murphy and even judd are not accountable enough and need to help the backline out if we are to not conceed any less than 100 points.

I think part of the reason our midfield is not accountable enough could be due to tiredness... Most teams this season are using the interchange bench 20+ more times a game than we are allowing their mids to be fresh so as they can help a bit more in defense...

Perhaps Ratten needs to look at using the bench a lot more?

 

[RiCHii]

I think you are right in the sense that we are conceding too many goals. But i dont think its just the defenders i think we need to apply much more midfield pressure which has been shown in the third quarter against essendon.

 

[WeninRome]

we work so hard to get to our half of the ground but then turn it over way too easily, and then other teams are able to swoop and work in numbers and destroy us on the scoreboard.

Imagine when we play geelong.

 

[thylacine60]

Firstly I am very excited about what I am seeing in some regards this year. Some real positives include:

- Judd
- Stevens
- Fev
- Bower (looking really talented)
- Jamo
- Special K
- Murph and Gibbs both coming along nicely.

However we are conceeding a ridiculous amount of goals. I for one have never seen a side regularly out numbered in its own backline it is an absolute disgrace.


I reckon Essendon kicked 6 goals from contested spillage in there fwd line when they actually out numbered us... which is similar to what the saints did last week.

I for one think with a more defensive mind set we could easily win 8 to 10 games but this current game style is going to result in opposition teams constantly kicking soft goals making it impossible for us to win

The startled emu needs to be informed that "hang time" when hand-balling is not a desirable thing.

 

[bakerboy]

ok this is all rubbish! do any of you actually watch the game?

Essendon had over 50 balls that enterted the 50 during the game. At the pace that the ball was coming in the backman were left with nothing to work with.

The accountability and pressure from our forward line and the middle of the ground is horrible. This is the reason why we are getting scored on so heavily.

On numerous amounts of times Essendon had unmarked players floating around the packs and we were the ones going in and under (hence the huge number of clearences in our favour) but what happened was that we made a skill error once we cleared the ball out of the pack and then like a flood of water they worked the ball into their 50, leaving our backman stranded.

guys like stevens, carrazzo, murphy and even judd are not accountable enough and need to help the backline out if we are to not conceed any less than 100 points.

You hit the nail right on the head.
It's are decision making first, because we get plenty of the ball.
Then it's our accountability when we turn it over,there is none.

 

[Beloved]

I think we executed the game plan well last night, and dare I say it, our defence was quite solid.

A lot ofEssendon's goals came from big kicks from outside 50, an area we failed to shut down. If we had a little bit of luck and Essendon hadn't kicked so straight from 50m out, we might have won that game.

Go back and look at the tape and note how many goals they scored from 40m+.

 

[WeninRome]

accountability, accountability, accountability... this is school boy stuff.

How hard is it to stay man on man.

If we are struggling to do this why not incorporate what the hawks do and play a length of the ground zone?

I honestly don't know what our game plan is?

How can you explain the fact that we dominated hard ball gets and clearances, our full forward kicked 8 goals, our million dollar man looks finally like a million dollars and our number 1 draft pick looks like a future champion, yet still lose?

Surely this comes down to the game plan and overall preperation?

 

[Artie Bucco]

accountability, accountability, accountability... this is school boy stuff.

How hard is it to stay man on man.

If we are struggling to do this why not incorporate what the hawks do and play a length of the ground zone?

I honestly don't know what our game plan is?

How can you explain the fact that we dominated hard ball gets and clearances, our full forward kicked 8 goals, our million dollar man looks finally like a million dollars and our number 1 draft pick looks like a future champion, yet still lose?

Surely this comes down to the game plan and overall preporation?

Have to agree mate,

The simple fact is we have too many players that play uncontested football. If we are going to play that way it's fine but our skills aren't up to scratch to play with that many unaccountable players.

Essendon scored far too many goals from spills around the packs or just running riot through midfield without any pressure at all

 

[bibi01]

I don't see our game plan as being the problem.

IMO the problem is the execution of the game plan that is costing us games and the execution of basic skills.

Once again we missed targets by hand and by foot, we still have issues with our tackling and we don't have enough players who are willing to track back and pick up an opponent and help the defence.

Another problem we have is non of our players are willing to lay a shepherd for a teammate.

On at least 3 occasions on Saturday night we had a Carlton player running down the ground with the ball being chased by an Essendon player and we also had another Carlton player running 5 meters beside him calling for the ball, rather than being a team player and running across and laying a shepherd so the ball carrier could have an extra 10 meter to run.

the first time it was Judd who was the culprit, then bower then hampson.

the worst was the hampson one- simpson had the ball, running to his favoured left hand side, hampson was on his outside next to the boundary line,
rather than hampson cutting in and laying a shepherd, so simpson could have a shot from 50 out, hampson stayed on the outside calling for the ball, simpson was forced to handpass to hampson,
hampson was hemmed in on the boundary and was in turn forced to kick on his non preferred left foot and we had a turn over.

 

[Jezza U Beauty]

The startled emu needs to be informed that "hang time" when hand-balling is not a desirable thing.

I like to refer to him as the 'rabbit in the spotlight'

 

[a1118374]

I like to refer to him as the 'rabbit in the spotlight'

is it just me that thinks hes become ok? probably rather the ball in his hands than carrots atm.

and while im on disposal why the hell cant simpson execute a right handed handball, i was left screaming at the tv when his crucial incompetency cost us the ball and a score if i remember correctly. IT ONLY HAD TO GO 2-3m

 

[thylacine60]

I like to refer to him as the 'rabbit in the spotlight'

Was referring more to his zig-zag style of tacking down the ground.

is it just me that thinks hes become ok? probably rather the ball in his hands than carrots atm.
and while im on disposal why the hell cant simpson execute a right handed handball, i was left screaming at the tv when his crucial incompetency cost us the ball and a score if i remember correctly. IT ONLY HAD TO GO 2-3m

Paul is heading in the right direction IMO.

Simmo is more and more being found out re: his complete and utter left-sided bias. Can't kick or handball with the other side and frankly it's not acceptable.

 

[WeninRome]

i think what we will find as we get further into the season, is that guys such as simmo, houlihan, scotland, carrazzo, russel and co aren't really up to the mark. There will be games such as Sat nights where our best players dominate yet we lose, due to us carrying to many players.

With the emergence of talented players such as murphy, gibbs, kruez and then fev, judd and stevens - the not so talented players as mentioned above are really being found out.

Would love to see armfield and co given a game soon to see if they are up to it or not.

 

[Magnificence]

ok this is all rubbish! do any of you actually watch the game?

Essendon had over 50 balls that enterted the 50 during the game. At the pace that the ball was coming in the backman were left with nothing to work with.

The accountability and pressure from our forward line and the middle of the ground is horrible. This is the reason why we are getting scored on so heavily.

On numerous amounts of times Essendon had unmarked players floating around the packs and we were the ones going in and under (hence the huge number of clearences in our favour) but what happened was that we made a skill error once we cleared the ball out of the pack and then like a flood of water they worked the ball into their 50, leaving our backman stranded.

guys like stevens, carrazzo, murphy and even judd are not accountable enough and need to help the backline out if we are to not conceed any less than 100 points.

Thats exactly what I was saying (in less words) Essendon at times out numbered us in our backline which shows our mids and half backs are no getting back quicker enough which is amazing

 

[WeninRome]

Thats exactly what I was saying (in less words) Essendon at times out numbered us in our backline which shows our mids and half backs are no getting back quicker enough which is amazing

and extremely frustrating... seemed like we worked so hard for a goal and they were able to hit back really really easily .... they had some seriously soft goals.

 

[bolz]

accountability, accountability, accountability... this is school boy stuff.

How hard is it to stay man on man.

If we are struggling to do this why not incorporate what the hawks do and play a length of the ground zone?

I honestly don't know what our game plan is?

How can you explain the fact that we dominated hard ball gets and clearances, our full forward kicked 8 goals, our million dollar man looks finally like a million dollars and our number 1 draft pick looks like a future champion, yet still lose?

Surely this comes down to the game plan and overall preperation?

seems simple in theory, but if you've ever played footy in a midfield type role, you will appreciate how hard it is to find your man, especially when the ball has just been turned over (as happens so often with us). If the painful skill errors can be shut down, we will be a much better team in so many ways other than just skill.

But yes, the midfielders do need to be more accountable. It only comes with time and patience; it's not a thing that can just happen overnight. The defensive side of the game is a whole new school of thought

 

[WeninRome]

seems simple in theory, but if you've ever played footy in a midfield type role, you will appreciate how hard it is to find your man, especially when the ball has just been turned over (as happens so often with us). If the painful skill errors can be shut down, we will be a much better team in so many ways other than just skill.

But yes, the midfielders do need to be more accountable. It only comes with time and patience; it's not a thing that can just happen overnight. The defensive side of the game is a whole new school of thought

I played in the midfield for my whole career, and I do appreciate how hard it is to find your man all the time, but it is not hard to be accountable. Even if its not your man and you see one loose you go man up when you don't have the ball.

These guys are professional footballers who are played a lot of money each year. Accountability is something that is taught from a young age and just doesnt seem to be present in our team at the moment.

The tackling and pressure between the forward line and our oppositions 50 is non existant, there are way too many cheap goals every game, way too many missed tackles and players running free.

I would love to know what the coaching staff is doing about this atm

 

[Magnificence]

I played in the midfield for my whole career, and I do appreciate how hard it is to find your man all the time, but it is not hard to be accountable. Even if its not your man and you see one loose you go man up when you don't have the ball.

These guys are professional footballers who are played a lot of money each year. Accountability is something that is taught from a young age and just doesnt seem to be present in our team at the moment.

The tackling and pressure between the forward line and our oppositions 50 is non existant, there are way too many cheap goals every game, way too many missed tackles and players running free.

I would love to know what the coaching staff is doing about this atm

Well said. Also given we have the best stoppage man in the game - C Judd we should play super accountable and continually force ball ups.

 

[BlueFeaver]

At this point in the development of so many young players it is important we maintain their confidence. A to defensive approach can rob them of confidence and can have a dire effect on disposal and the like: ala Walker under Pagan.

While it is frustrating at the moment to watch, we need to be patient. I have confidence in the new coaching structure and support team, they have only been there for about 5 minutes. "Rome wasn't built in a day"

Cordy will condition our boys into strong, fast athletes that rarely get injured.
Ratten will develop an accountable team that will have the confidence to take on any one.

 

[The Real Deal]

I watched the first quarter of the match again- the backline is a major reason we're losing. We let them take 3 marks in their 50 in the first 2 minutes- the writing was on the wall. The backmen HAVE to stick close to their opponent-

Cloke was beaten for pace trying to stop a lead,
Thornton doesn't run with his opponent anywhere near close enough, Waite was on McPhee, who found a little too much space as the game wore on.
And then when the ball hits the ground- Scotland doesn't quite put his head over the ball the way a Mckay would. The opposition breaks tackles.
How many relieving marks do we take?
Jamison has a very good football brain and must be given a good go down back- will be an excellent player.
If you smash a team in clearances and stoppages you should not be conceding 150 points and you should more times than not win the game.
We must go a bit more defensive. If that means picking more defensive minded players like Armfield well then get them in. If it means dropping an extra player back in the backline then do it. Collingwood will easily kick 100 points if we try going one on one with them like last week. Pagan tried an attack at all costs gameplan and we barely won a game, and the ones we did win were close and not convincing. It just seems like a lot of the defenders are forwards who have been asked to have a go down back. Our back 6 in 1995 were true defenders- I never saw a soft goal kicked against us- at the moment we're getting cut up way too often.

 

[WeninRome]

I watched the first quarter of the match again- the backline is a major reason we're losing. We let them take 3 marks in their 50 in the first 2 minutes- the writing was on the wall. The backmen HAVE to stick close to their opponent-

Cloke was beaten for pace trying to stop a lead,
Thornton doesn't run with his opponent anywhere near close enough, Waite was on McPhee, who found a little too much space as the game wore on.
And then when the ball hits the ground- Scotland doesn't quite put his head over the ball the way a Mckay would. The opposition breaks tackles.
How many relieving marks do we take?
Jamison has a very good football brain and must be given a good go down back- will be an excellent player.
If you smash a team in clearances and stoppages you should not be conceding 150 points and you should more times than not win the game.
We must go a bit more defensive. If that means picking more defensive minded players like Armfield well then get them in. If it means dropping an extra player back in the backline then do it. Collingwood will easily kick 100 points if we try going one on one with them like last week. Pagan tried an attack at all costs gameplan and we barely won a game, and the ones we did win were close and not convincing. It just seems like a lot of the defenders are forwards who have been asked to have a go down back. Our back 6 in 1995 were true defenders- I never saw a soft goal kicked against us- at the moment we're getting cut up way too often.

great post! soooo any chance you can give ratts a buzz and inform him of this?

 

[Dramoth]

To be honest, we aren't accountable enough to win many games this season and if things keep going on the way they are... we wont win one.

However, to compare our current defence to a defence that, in 1995, had the benefits of a first class coaching team and experienced players who, at the end of their careers were mentoring and helping out the younger players.

We were watching a well drilled confident group of defenders that had over 1000 games between them all at that point in time. And when one of them went out injured, there were others who stepped up into the game who also had experience.

Our most experienced defensive player in Thornton wouldnt even manage to make the bench in the '95 team and we would have had to suffer some massive injuries for him to even get onto the bench where he would have been used sparingly.

The average number of games for our youthful defense is probably in the low 30's or 40's (if that)

Hoops is not a defender and should be playing on the HFF. Scotland is a winger and should be sitting back closer to the HBF and running through the wing as the ball comes out of the centre so he can collect it and pump it quickly into the forward line. Same with Simmo and Carrots.

We need an experienced defender this year or we will still be screwed next year.