Should Essendon Tank?

[VelvetSledge]

You can't expect a couple of highly skilled kids to completely revamp the team in a few months, that's why I think it's ridiculous to sacrifice the season to grab some new players... I'd much rather grab a premiership.

 

[BlueDW]

Joel Selwood went at pick 7, you dont need a top 3 pick to get a quality midfielder.

Would have gone top 2 if not for his knee mate.

 

[Big Blow Hard]

Would have gone top 2 if not for his knee mate.

Speculative. I may be wrong, but I don't ever recall Essendon (Pick 2) saying, "we would have picked Selwood but for his knee", so we will go for a future CHF in Gumbleton instead.

 

[Daytripper]

Emphatic NO to tanking.

FFS, we have picked up Ryder, Gumbleton and Myers in the last three drafts.

Its time to start moving up. Some of you people panic too much. We are in good shape come 2010-2012 with the amount of youth on our list..

A no 2 or 3 pick will be nice to talk about during the off season but once they join AFL ranks they just become another player with faults.

Disgraceful talk in my opinion and if I hear any Essendon supporter sitting near me at the footy barracking for us to lose then I won't be responsible for my actions.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Speculative. I may be wrong, but I don't ever recall Essendon (Pick 2) saying, "we would have picked Selwood but for his knee", so we will go for a future CHF in Gumbleton instead.

No but Sheedy did say If they hadn't got rid of the first round priority pick he would have picked Selwood at 4

 

[Bluebear]

Define tanking?

No team has ever gone out to lose games..........so no tanking occurs.

If tanking is deciding that when the finals are out of reach, that you will drop some senior players whose future is in doubt, put some others in for surgery so that they are right for pre-season, and bring in some guys who need to play so a decision can be made on their future come the end of the year.......i.e. list management.........
......then every team in the bottom 4 or so has tanked for the last 15 plus years. It's just the media have convicned you the reason for "list management" has changed.........last year it was "teams wouldn't tank for a first pick, but they would for a PP...........but now that the PP ius off the table this year the tune has changed..........but who cares right?...........and of course the sheep bleat along.

Essendon has a good core of youngplayers who need to learn how to win.
They will get a top 5 pick in all likelihood anyway, so I'd vote for win at all costs, but manage your list as above.

P.s. Embley at full back, resting Kerr, Fletcher and Embley.......Cox drilling his kick into Laycock's chest? It does pose the question........

 

[Big Blow Hard]

Define tanking?

No team has ever gone out to lose games..........so no tanking occurs.

If tanking is deciding that when the finals are out of reach, that you will drop some senior players whose future is in doubt, put some others in for surgery so that they are right for pre-season, and bring in some guys who need to play so a decision can be made on their future come the end of the year.......i.e. list management.........
......then every team in the bottom 4 or so has tanked for the last 15 plus years. It's just the media have convicned you the reason for "list management" has changed.........last year it was "teams wouldn't tank for a first pick, but they would for a PP...........but now that the PP ius off the table this year the tune has changed..........but who cares right?...........and of course the sheep bleat along.

Essendon has a good core of youngplayers who need to learn how to win.
They will get a top 5 pick in all likelihood anyway, so I'd vote for win at all costs, but manage your list as above.

P.s. Embley at full back, resting Kerr, Fletcher and Embley.......Cox drilling his kick into Laycock's chest? It does pose the question........

Why do Carlton supporters get their back up so easily when they hear the word Tanking? No one mentioned Carlton on here.

 

[football_legends]

____ we can't really even win matches let alone tank em! West Coast are not travelling that well, if we can beat them then they must be tanking!

 

[ant555]

Kepler Bradley went at pick 7. Selwood is the 4th or 5th midfielder at Geelong, take Ablett and Corey out of the side and see how he goes.

Probably not as well but the kid is still a star. No need to have a shot at Selwood ability to try and make your point. He is the real deal and was the best mid going around in the under 18's during his time there.
If Ablett and Corey where not in the side he would be playing as well as a young mid would be expected to in their first couple of seasons.

 

[ant555]

Why do Carlton supporters get their back up so easily when they hear the word Tanking? No one mentioned Carlton on here.

I would have thought it was very easy to understand why Carlton supporters get annoyed with it. Lets face it rightly or wrongly they have copped it from everyone for a while and from all angles. Essendon supporters get annoyed when Walls continually has a shot at us. It is the same thing. Try having the shoe on the other foot and thinking what it is like when everyone is lining up to have a crack at your club.
Oh and by the way someone did mention Carlton in this thread

 

[Bluebear]

Why do Carlton supporters get their back up so easily when they hear the word Tanking? No one mentioned Carlton on here.

No one did until you "bleated" along blow hard............whose back is up?

I didn't realise that my team being listed next to my username precluded me from having an opinion on this board.

I apologise if I have offended your red and black sensitivities.

My point stands.

 

[Big Blow Hard]

SUre I can understand if Carlton supporter want to get defensive, but with the exception of a couple of little jibes from some tools in the first few posts (Who I requested to keep on topic), this thread is about whether Essendon should Tank or List Manage this year. Not whether Carlton did or didn't last year.

Bluebear, of course you are welcome to your opinion. Maybe I just misinterpreted the way your prior post came across when I read it. The little sarcastic smiley at the end gave me the impression you felt the thread was a disguised attack on Carlton, which it is not. In that case, I apologize.

But, please give myself, and others more credit than to assume we are "Bleating" on, or have been misled into our opinions by the media. Some of us are smarter than that.

 

[Jesse Custer]

SUre I can understand if Carlton supporter want to get defensive, but with the exception of a couple of little jibes from some tools in the first few posts (Who I requested to keep on topic), this thread is about whether Essendon should Tank or List Manage this year. Not whether Carlton did or didn't last year.

Bluebear, of course you are welcome to your opinion. Maybe I just misinterpreted the way your prior post came across when I read it. The little sarcastic smiley at the end gave me the impression you felt the thread was a disguised attack on Carlton, which it is not. In that case, I apologize.

But, please give myself, and others more credit than to assume we are "Bleating" on, or have been misled into our opinions by the media. Some of us are smarter than that.

Thanks for calling your fellow essendon supporters tools. So you call their own fellow coaching assistant a liar? We havent been misled into our opinons by the media, it was claimed by Libba and their own fellow champion Kouta. Did you forget that? If what your saying is true, then why even pick up the paper? At the end of the day i couldnt give a stuff because it doesnt concern me or my club.

 

[Big Blow Hard]

Thanks for calling your fellow essendon supporters tools. So you call their own fellow coaching assistant a liar? We havent been misled into our opinons by the media, it was claimed by Libba and their own fellow champion Kouta. Did you forget that? If what your saying is true, then why even pick up the paper? At the end of the day i couldnt give a stuff because it doesnt concern me or my club.

I referred to those who took this thread as an oppurtunity to have a dig at Carlton, when the topic was Essendon. So yes, thos posters are tools. Libba's claims were pretty much discredited, so yes. I will say he stretched the truth a fair way. I don't know what Kouta said. I did not accuse you of being misled, in fact I said to give most of us credit to not be led by the media pack. If by Media, you mean the factual stories that are based on evidence etc, certainly believe them. But I think we know by media, what is meant is every journo, or so called expert who puts an opinion out there for the public to swallow.

PS. Just because we support the same team, doesn't mean we have some unbreakable bond. Like with every team, there are posters on here who are downright daft, and embarrassing to the rest of us.

 

[Jesse Custer]

I referred to those who took this thread as an oppurtunity to have a dig at Carlton, when the topic was Essendon. So yes, thos posters are tools. Libba's claims were pretty much discredited, so yes. I will say he stretched the truth a fair way. I don't know what Kouta said. I did not accuse you of being misled, in fact I said to give most of us credit to not be led by the media pack. If by Media, you mean the factual stories that are based on evidence etc, certainly believe them. But I think we know by media, what is meant is every journo, or so called expert who puts an opinion out there for the public to swallow.

Libbas claims were discredited by the club, what would you expect them to come out and say and then the AFL swept it under the carpet to avoid destroying the game and its reputation. I dont believe anybody would come out and accuse a club of such a serious matter if it wasnt true. But mate, everybody is entitled to their opinion.

 

[Bluebear]

Libbas claims were discredited by the club, what would you expect them to come out and say and then the AFL swept it under the carpet to avoid destroying the game and its reputation. I dont believe anybody would come out and accuse a club of such a serious matter if it wasnt true. But mate, everybody is entitled to their opinion.

Now see what you have done BBH.......you've taken may post.....which said nothing of my own team......and a sarcastic comment about WCE - which was VERY clear......and you've openned up a can of worms.

JC - what were Libba's claims exactly?

That he wasn't listened to - and weeks later he was fired......maybe his suggestions were crap.
That we put players in for surgery who could have played on in his opinion......thanks Dr Libba
That we didn't put a hard tag on Johnstone in round 22.......he had 40 possies and 13 clangers.....Scotland had 39 possies and 4 clangers........its called going head to head and backing yourself.......

Might we also look at the claims Libba made againast his old club as a sort of character test?
Guess not. Oh well.

As for why he would do it? We just ended his coaching aspirations and he was hurting, and he is a gullable fool who was led beautifully by Hutchy.........but hey, lets see how your year pans out and see if the mud sticks.

 

[S.C[BANKS]]

I should have known.........

A tank topic that ultimately lead to a blues discussion.

 

[Jesse Custer]

Now see what you have done BBH.......you've taken may post.....which said nothing of my own team......and a sarcastic comment about WCE - which was VERY clear......and you've openned up a can of worms.

JC - what were Libba's claims exactly?

That he wasn't listened to - and weeks later he was fired......maybe his suggestions were crap.
That we put players in for surgery who could have played on in his opinion......thanks Dr Libba
That we didn't put a hard tag on Johnstone in round 22.......he had 40 possies and 13 clangers.....Scotland had 39 possies and 4 clangers........its called going head to head and backing yourself.......

Might we also look at the claims Libba made againast his old club as a sort of character test?
Guess not. Oh well.

As for why he would do it? We just ended his coaching aspirations and he was hurting, and he is a gullable fool who was led beautifully by Hutchy.........but hey, lets see how your year pans out and see if the mud sticks.

Righto we'll see how the year pans out. End of discussion ive had enough.

 

[OzBomber]

No, absolutely not. Anyone who wants to tank does not deserve to be a supporter of this great club.

I'd don't care if it means we'll be in the 8 in a couple of years, I for one would never throw matches.

 

[Dan26]

The draft is totally overrated. The Salary Cap is the real device that evens up the competition. They have a salary cap, but no draft in the NRL and look how even that comp is. Eleven different teams have contested the last 7 NRL Grand Finals.

Last year Geelong provided one of the greatest teams in modern history. Their highest draft pick was Andrew Mackie at pick 7, and he's not the key to their side or anything. In 2006, Adelaide was by far the best and most dominant team, and they had no high draft picks helping them. Not one top 10 pick. The premiers that years, West Coast had Judd at pick 3 and no other top 10 picks

Sydney in 2005 had Craig Bolton and Nick Fosdike (both pick 3), but as good as those two are, they aren't "one in a million." In the draft where Fosdike went at 3, they could have picked Fevola who went at 38.

High draft picks are totally overatted and if you look at the Grand Finalists each year and where the players come from (i.e pick numbers) you can see this for yourself.

People who thinkyou need high draft picks are naive. They beleive the rubbish thatis peddled in the media. The facts prove the draft is overrated, and that salary Cap in the REAL thing that evens up the comp.

 

[eth-dog]

Never EVER tank

 

[Bluebear]

High draft picks are totally overatted and if you look at the Grand Finalists each year and where the players come from (i.e pick numbers) you can see this for yourself.

People who thinkyou need high draft picks are naive. They beleive the rubbish thatis peddled in the media. The facts prove the draft is overrated, and that salary Cap in the REAL thing that evens up the comp.

Great post Dan26.

I think that at the moment you are right, but not for long.

If you consider that teams winning GF's usually have an average age in the mid 20's, their players have been in the system for 7-8 years.
I would argue that until recently the science of drafting has been very basic and players were often picked on good form over the U18 carnival, but not necessarily undergoing psychological screening and all the other testing that now occurs at draft camp...........not sure how long the camp has been going for, but it is constantly evolving as well.

My point, in a long winded way, is that its really only the last 5-6 years or so that most top 10 players turn out to be very good (with some notable exceptions always)........but we now see the emergence of Hawthorn and the Bulldogs. Collingwood last year, and with any luck, the Blues in the next few.

There are always, and will always be exceptions, but I think we will see, over the next 5-10 years amuch bigger cylce with the teams playing in the GF, as the draft runs a full cycle.
By full cylce I mean that players drafted under zones, special concessions (SA and WA clubs), mergers (causing the Lions dominance) etc move out of the system and ALL players are at clubs under the draft system.

Just my opinion.

As for tanking.........pick 1 to one club might be pick 5 at another.......such as Gibbs vs Leuenberger..........most clubs in the bottom 4 or 5 (well, any club really) need players in multiple positions so don't necessarily need the number 1 pick to get a particular player..........Naitanui, Rich, Hurley......you'd take any of them.......why tank to change position?

 

[reincarnated]

I honestly don't know the meaning of the word 'tanking'. Can someone define what tanking is.

- Is it losing delibrately?
- Is it not trying to win?
- Is it playing the kids & giving them game time and looking to the future?
- Is it letting your good players get over their injuries and letting them have their pending surgeries, in the hope they will be ready for pre-season next year, when the finals are out of the question this year?

I am all in for "playing the kids" and giving them some game time. If that constitute tanking then so be it. (That doesn't mean we are trying to lose).

 

[Daytripper]

I hope those who voted yes have a think about how they are feeling right noww on the back of a fantastic win.

On a side note, missed my 2nd Melb game this season due to circumstances. Listening to football on the radio is not something I want to make a habit of.

 

[Burzum]

That win was worth missing out on Rich.