Blues being hurt by turnovers

[M_I_G]

interesting read
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...overs-stats-show/story-e6frf9jf-1225853350441
god those turnovers are costing us
good to see our stats on clearances and contested ball so high without judd, so should only improve in these areas

 

[blues4flag]

While skill level has been atrocious, surely Ratten deserves some credit for our dominance of the clearances, particularly when we're missing the best clearance player in the league.

 

[Sublime]

Its good to see the stats pretty much sum up how i'm feeling about the Blues at the moment. We're playing well and dominating around the packs, but our shithouse disposal is losing the matches for us. Fix that and we're set!

 

[Sublime]

While skill level has been atrocious, surely Ratten deserves some credit for our dominance of the clearances, particularly when we're missing the best clearance player in the league.

Like.

 

[Blue Dawn]

I'm frustrated.

The fact we're so good at getting the ball atm simply gives us more opportunity to butcher the bloody thing!

 

[Bell Ringer]

Our shithouse disposal is losing the matches for us. Fix that and we're set!

This is far, Far, FAR easier said than done. We have too many guys in the side atm that are average to below average disposers of the ball. Their poor disposal is a combination of poor technique/execution and/or poor decision making. Granted you can work on the decision making but I wouldn't back a 20yo to significantly improve their kicking action to the point where the difference starts affecting results.

Compounding the issue is that some of these guys are playing in defence. Teams such as Hawthorn (Hodge, Young), WB (Gilbee), StK (Gilbert), Geel (Hunt, Kelly) and Adel (McLeod) have some of the best kicks in the league setting up attack from the backline with their ability to break the lines/zones and pinpoint a pass.

We have .....ummm Walker and ??? Awesome

Was C. Johnson supposed to be our elite-kicking backman?? God, I hope not - A. The Washington Generals play better defence and B. While his action may look smooth, he couldn't hit the side of a barn!

Our best option in the side right now for this role is Russell and while he has defintely improved his all-round game he'll never have the kicking ability of the aforementioned players.

So who is it going to be?? I'm not clued in on the guys who haven't debuted yet but please tell me at least one of them could play this role within season 2010.

 

[Danog]

At the end of that article...

"Ratten must be drumming on thing home this week: “Keep getting your hands on it first lads, but for $%##& sake, do something con-structive with it.”"

What kind of journalism is that?! Pathetic.

 

[Sublime]

This is far, Far, FAR easier said than done. We have too many guys in the side atm that are average to below average disposers of the ball. Their poor disposal is a combination of poor technique/execution and/or poor decision making. Granted you can work on the decision making but I wouldn't back a 20yo to significantly improve their kicking action to the point where the difference starts affecting results.

Compounding the issue is that some of these guys are playing in defence. Teams such as Hawthorn (Hodge, Young), WB (Gilbee), StK (Gilbert), Geel (Hunt, Kelly) and Adel (McLeod) have some of the best kicks in the league setting up attack from the backline with their ability to break the lines/zones and pinpoint a pass.

We have .....ummm Walker and ??? Awesome

Was C. Johnson supposed to be our elite-kicking backman?? God, I hope not - A. The Washington Generals play better defence and B. While his action may look smooth, he couldn't hit the side of a barn!

Our best option in the side right now for this role is Russell and while he has defintely improved his all-round game he'll never have the kicking ability of the aforementioned players.

So who is it going to be?? I'm not clued in on the guys who haven't debuted yet but please tell me at least one of them could play this role within season 2010.

Well i did say it a bit tongue in cheek... of course its going to be hard to fix. Not many players improve their disposal as much as Russell has, which means it was more than likely just a confidence thing with him. We don't necessarily need a bunch of elite kicks, just players who can hit targets over about 40 metres.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

This tends to illustrate that those attacking our midfield group in retaliation for those picking on Army/Walker for poor disposal have been wrong.

Our midfield group are doing fine, it is all just down to kicking/decision making efficiency, and coversion of opportunities from the overall team.

This is exactly why people on here have highlighted our worst offenders in Army/Walker/Carrots. Thornton escaped my notice to be honest but generally over 5 years he has been good at hitting a target...i cant say the same for the other 3 over a number of games/seasons.

We either train our players better or replace them with players who can kick/make the right decision.

 

[Sublime]

We either train our players better or replace them with players who can kick/make the right decision.

Unfortunately disposal isn't always something that can be 'trained better'. Sure some people will respond and improve a bit, other people are just too set in their ways. Do we bring in better disposers of the ball (O'Keefe..) at the expense of these other guys even if they're clearly not ready? Sure he might hit targes, but i think he'd have trouble stopping his man / actually finding the pill.

Which evil do we prefer?

 

[Bluebear]

Its good to see the stats pretty much sum up how i'm feeling about the Blues at the moment. We're playing well and dominating around the packs, but our shithouse disposal is losing the matches for us. Fix that and we're set!

But I thought we needed to sack the coach, drop the entire forward line, half the backline and Warnock............

Speaks very much to how we are going. Dominating on ball but not getting the rewards. Our delivery into F50 the last two weeks has been nothing short of pathetic. TBH I think our forwards have done a good job getting the ball they have with the delivery they have had (not that they couldn't sharpen up their kicking as well).

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Unfortunately disposal isn't always something that can be 'trained better'. Sure some people will respond and improve a bit, other people are just too set in their ways. Do we bring in better disposers of the ball (O'Keefe..) at the expense of these other guys even if they're clearly not ready? Sure he might hit targes, but i think he'd have trouble stopping his man / actually finding the pill.

Which evil do we prefer?

/agree

And that is why we are still struggling and will do for another 2 seasons (by that, i mean prob no top 4 any time soon). While trying to improve the quality of our list as fast as possible, we have been slightly caught out in the kicking efficiency area which is now top of the tree in terms of a player's skillset due to the evolving of clusters/zones.

We are still catching up and it is hurting us!

 

[Gambelic]

Wouldn't it be nice to have someone like Josh Hunt kicking out from fullback ... we can only dream.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

But I thought we needed to sack the coach, drop the entire forward line, half the backline and Warnock............

Speaks very much to how we are going. Dominating on ball but not getting the rewards. Our delivery into F50 the last two weeks has been nothing short of pathetic. TBH I think our forwards have done a good job getting the ball they have with the delivery they have had (not that they couldn't sharpen up their kicking as well).

What we need to be conscience of is that even if we go out and play a blinder this week, the problems are there in our list for the next 12 months plus due to the players on the field.

Somewhere in the next 3 games, we will do the same thing - embarrass ourselves with disposal/poor decision making. It is this stat that i'm interested in most. How do we stack up overall against other teams over multiple weeks. I personally think we struggle. 1-2 good/decent games, then a cringeworthy one. We have been doing it for 12 months + already.

 

[BlueTongue]

This is far, Far, FAR easier said than done. We have too many guys in the side atm that are average to below average disposers of the ball. Their poor disposal is a combination of poor technique/execution and/or poor decision making. Granted you can work on the decision making but I wouldn't back a 20yo to significantly improve their kicking action to the point where the difference starts affecting results.

Compounding the issue is that some of these guys are playing in defence. Teams such as Hawthorn (Hodge, Young), WB (Gilbee), StK (Gilbert), Geel (Hunt, Kelly) and Adel (McLeod) have some of the best kicks in the league setting up attack from the backline with their ability to break the lines/zones and pinpoint a pass.

We have .....ummm Walker and ??? Awesome

Was C. Johnson supposed to be our elite-kicking backman?? God, I hope not - A. The Washington Generals play better defence and B. While his action may look smooth, he couldn't hit the side of a barn!

Our best option in the side right now for this role is Russell and while he has defintely improved his all-round game he'll never have the kicking ability of the aforementioned players.

So who is it going to be?? I'm not clued in on the guys who haven't debuted yet but please tell me at least one of them could play this role within season 2010.

I'm convinced that most of our disposal issues are a mental thing.

It's been said that we are nailing them at training no worries, but come gameday and the pressure is on, we continually butcher the ball.

Someone mentioned Mick Malthouse's ability to get the best out of his mediocre players (Kevin Sheedy was also a master at this - always astounded me how quick he got new players up and going).

I would like to think that Ratten can marshall his troops but he'd want to improve his body language from Saturday night. Shades of a sulking Fev.
Wouls like to see a few more pulsating Parko veins in his neck & forehead!

With that said, I don't think he's a crap coach and I'm sure a bit more pressure from 'the boys club' will force him to perform better.

Sometimes people perform better when their ass is in a sling.

Well... I hope so!

 

[HBF]

Its good to see the stats pretty much sum up how i'm feeling about the Blues at the moment. We're playing well and dominating around the packs, but our shithouse disposal is losing the matches for us. Fix that and we're set!

Well said Sublime.
With all of Judd's qualities, I just wonder if he might bring a calmness back to the playing group, which may just help reduce the number of turnovers that result in shots on goal.

 

[Bluebear]

I personally think we struggle. 1-2 good/decent games, then a cringeworthy one. We have been doing it for 12 months + already.

Check the average age/experience of our group and I think you'll be surprised.

We were only a few months "older" than the Tigers in round 1, yet they were written off as being a "young side" prone to making mistakes.

Murphy is considered our best midfielder (in the absebce of Judd).....he's 23 and a couple of years away from his best footy. The reason why footballers nominate the 25-28 age as the most productive is having the experience and years in the legs to produce "consistency".

Are there some players in our side that won't be in our next flag? Probably. Do we just drop them to replace them with someone else who won't? Of course not. We field our best 22, and as they get more experienced they produce more even performances (e.g. Gibbs and Kreuzer) but we know what their best is, and we know they produce it more often than not.

Ratten also is "young" in terms of coaching experience. That will get him so far, but he needs to show that he can learn and his gameplan can evolve........but so far he has taken us from cellar to just outisde, to finals..........and with our list changes this year, a finals berth would be above par IMO.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Check the average age/experience of our group and I think you'll be surprised.

We were only a few months "older" than the Tigers in round 1, yet they were written off as being a "young side" prone to making mistakes.

Murphy is considered our best midfielder (in the absebce of Judd).....he's 23 and a couple of years away from his best footy. The reason why footballers nominate the 25-28 age as the most productive is having the experience and years in the legs to produce "consistency".

Are there some players in our side that won't be in our next flag? Probably. Do we just drop them to replace them with someone else who won't? Of course not. We field our best 22, and as they get more experienced they produce more even performances (e.g. Gibbs and Kreuzer) but we know what their best is, and we know they produce it more often than not.

Ratten also is "young" in terms of coaching experience. That will get him so far, but he needs to show that he can learn and his gameplan can evolve........but so far he has taken us from cellar to just outisde, to finals..........and with our list changes this year, a finals berth would be above par IMO.

Totally agree. We just have to play who we have got. If the current group suck eggs then we have to suck eggs as supporters. Our only job is to make noise that it is unacceptable, and to keep pressure on the club to do something about it!

 

[Uhumagoo]

But I thought we needed to sack the coach, drop the entire forward line, half the backline and Warnock............

Yep, we need to get a coach who can develop a game plan around our unique ability to kick the ball out of bounds... Or if that is the instruction to players, then maybe we get one who's game plan is to not kick it out of bounds.. Hard to know without being in the coaches box really..

 

[WALKERTOBETTS]

I'm convinced that most of our disposal issues are a mental thing.

It's been said that we are nailing them at training no worries, but come gameday and the pressure is on, we continually butcher the ball.

Someone mentioned Mick Malthouse's ability to get the best out of his mediocre players (Kevin Sheedy was also a master at this - always astounded me how quick he got new players up and going).

I would like to think that Ratten can marshall his troops but he'd want to improve his body language from Saturday night. Shades of a sulking Fev.
Wouls like to see a few more pulsating Parko veins in his neck & forehead!

With that said, I don't think he's a crap coach and I'm sure a bit more pressure from 'the boys club' will force him to perform better.

Sometimes people perform better when their ass is in a sling.

Well... I hope so!

Absolutely spot on! learning to deliver or kicking is all a mental process, but our game plan needs more practice these young kids haven’t got that yet, and it will take some time, the game plan needs these young kids to read the play, so that they can get themselves into position earlier to receive the ball lace out, or in tighter contest move into better positions, kicking will come, that’s why they said (Jamo) “we need to play the game at our pace” so that targets can be hit, bombers played one on one, which they read the play better blocked our guys from getting into position better. But what irritates me is that, these young kids just don’t get it, the unspoken rules kicking into space, kicking to a team mate’s advantage in a one on one contest, most of the time they’ll kick it up in the air allowing other players to peal off, and apply pressure with numbers around the in a counter attacks. There are signs that our game plan is working, just have to keep the faith as frustrating as that is.

 

[Bluebear]

Totally agree.

Huh??

"Is this the right room for an arguement?"

 

[Sin City]

interesting read
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...overs-stats-show/story-e6frf9jf-1225853350441
god those turnovers are costing us
good to see our stats on clearances and contested ball so high without judd, so should only improve in these areas

I know it sounds a bit out dated in some ways, I'm not one of the dreaded "kick it" fans but but I'd much rather see us get it into the forward line quickly where we have a chance of a scoring opportunity then see us fiddle around with it until it gets turned over across half forward and we get hurt on the rebound.

I've never really liked us playing three talls down there, I'd rather go with the two, keep it open so it's not so crowded and move Waite to the backline where he plays his best footy. Having another small down there will make for better defensive pressure against these half backs that are hurting us running the ball out and will also give us more of a chance to score in case the ball hits the ground when it's delivered forward.

 

[zeeCFC]

Huh??

"Is this the right room for an arguement?"

Zing!

 

[choo]

A man’s got to know his limitations.
The main offenders all have obvious technical deficiencies.

Walker commits most of his errors on the run. He bounces the ball with his left hand and then kicks with his right meaning he is not balanced. When kicking on his left he leans too far to his right and is off balance.

Thornton's turnovers are caused by him not getting low enough to ground balls. He tries to bend and pick the ball up without getting right down. He also has no momentum when kicking and consequently, his kicks do not have the penetration he should.”Hospital passes” if you like.

Scotland wheels onto his left foot too often. He is a very good kick on his right but erratic on his left. Simpson the same.

Carrazzo has no momentum when kicking through the ball and has a double handed drop on his right. His left is painfully slow to release but is, at least, technically correct. He also tries too hard to hit impossible targets or ones that are beyond him.

Maclean is invariably under pressure when he disposes of the ball. He is a clearance player and should go by hand where possible. Because he is slow he obviously feels implied pressure and rushes his kicks. He is another who does not take the percentage option. His kicks are worse later in each quarter when tired.

I know all this obvious, I just hope the players are working very hard to improve although it’s doubtful at their age they will make significant progress. You simply can’t make a bad kick a good kick The main way for them all to get better is to play the percentages and ensure they are picking the SAFEST option. This is what the coaches should be drumming into them.

 

[one_twelve112]

We miss Stevens in term of field kicking and kicking out from defence....