Lions face decade of pain: Terry Wallace

[Balony_pony16]

I think terry actually has a point about Voss's coaching future as he has a lot of work to do to keep his job. But if he can fast track a heap of the youngsters development and get the team playing competitive/quality footy whilst resigning rich, berger, and clark then he will go along way to getting a new contract.

Personally I wouldn't be that surprised if Voss wasn't coach next year...I hope he is though!

On the quality of of squad...I think we are in for alot of pain in the coming years...especially with Brown, black, & power retiring soon. However, we have some quality youngsters, and I expect us to get some really good draft picks over the coming 3 years...so Terry suggesting that we are in for 10 years of hard times is laughable.

 

[Dylan12]

I expect us to get some really good draft picks over the coming 3 years...so Terry suggesting that we are in for 10 years of hard times is laughable.

Not saying I agree with Terry Wallace's comments at all, but this is the worst time in the games history that you would ever want to be reliant upon early draft picks, including last years draft and the 2 thereafter.

 

[The Edukator]

Its Terry Wallace... enough said. He's having a crack at everyone lately, forgetting how he stuffed Richmond around for so long.

whilst this is true the same might yet be said about Voss...

The situation is probably not as bleak as TW paints it but it is far far far away from ideal.

If you guys have a shocker, which would make it more likely for one of the kids to leave, then yes you will be in big trouble, but probably not for a decade..

i also feel it is unlikely that one of those kids will leave.

the allure of the GWS really sucks compared to the GC

 

[whatboutbob]

Terry "the list manager" Wallet should read this article.

While I'm not quite as upbeat about Vossy's future as Stevens (I think Voss needs to demonstrate further improvement in the kids before he gets a contract extension), he at least delves a little deeper than the tanned one.

 

[_hyphy]

In 2011 I would like to know what sort of game-plan Voss has for us. In 2010 I was at a loss to work out if it was based on defense,or if it was a chip around game plan...we're certainly not attacking, so what are we?

 

[Grimreepah]

Response from Nick Bowen

The Lions are entitled to question who Wallace is to judge them.

Wasn't he the coach who came to Richmond and recycled players like Mark Graham, Kent Kingsley and Jordan McMahon to Punt Road?

Then again, the Lions will concede Wallace is at least qualified to talk about on-field pain. The Tigers did not make the finals in his four and a half seasons at the club and he left the list in such a state they're not about to any time soon.

 

[kharis]

Response from Nick Bowen

at last some sense coming out of the nonsense brigade

 

[Stocka]

Can't wait to we start playing our full strength team and everyone realises that we're not a basket case.

I'm not so sure that the return of some of our more senior players is going to help us all that much. After all, we copped some serious hidings last season even when we had the likes of Brown, Power and Black in the team.

What concerns me, is that we actually will end up looking like a basket case even when we've got out "better" team on the park. I can't recall going into a season feeling this pessimistic about my team's on-field chances since the days of 1995 and 1996 with Fitzroy.

I don't agree with Wallace's reasons, but I do agree that we've got a few very bleak years up ahead, although, predicting a full decade ahead seems too far to call.

 

[luthor]

I don't agree with Wallace's reasons, but I do agree that we've got a few very bleak years up ahead, although, predicting a full decade ahead seems too far to call.

Agree with this.

I think we will be shyte for the next 2 years but beyond that , who knows?

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Agree with this.

I think we will be shyte for the next 2 years but beyond that , who knows?

Same.

Personally I don't think Voss can coach. Just get that feeling. Also, our pre-Hadley drafting has been poor - see Collier, Hawksley & Austin - and the addition of Raines and Buchanan has been a punt that was never likely to add much than a greater games tally.

I don't agree with the diagnosis of our defence as strong either. While the recruitment of Maguire saved us last year, I think he's a player not suited to the modern game (although it'll be interested to see what effect the interchange rule change has). Merrett has been flaky and on a downward trend.

A decade of pain? Nice hyperbole Terry. But it's not going to be pretty for a while.

 

[Dylan12]

Personally I don't think Voss can coach.

Unfortunately, I feel the same way too. From what I have seen live over the past two weeks, the players look confused or just don't have the requisite skill to carry out the gameplan. Hope I'm wrong though as Voss' rep could be damaged if this gets any worse.

 

[_hyphy]

Same.

I don't agree with the diagnosis of our defence as strong either. While the recruitment of Maguire saved us last year, I think he's a player not suited to the modern game (although it'll be interested to see what effect the interchange rule change has).

I have no proof (apart from the beltings over the last two years) but I directly attribute the decline in our defense to the loss of Leppa. What was once our (underrated) strength is now very poor.

 

[Balony_pony16]

I have no proof (apart from the beltings over the last two years) but I directly attribute the decline in our defense to the loss of Leppa. What was once our (underrated) strength is now very poor.

I agree! Under Leppa our defense was very solid. Just look at merret...he was looking like a AA FB in the making under leppa, but now looks like he will play out his career as a good FB at best.

Bring Leppa back!

 

[MightyTiger]

Bring Leppa back!

Hes ours now.

 

[loyallion]

I'd say we are in for a few years of pain but a decade????? I think Terry is exaggerating just a tad. Look it was always gonna happen ( the Lions going downhill)

We were in the finals from 1995 to 2004 ( except 1998) and of course during those years we won our 3 cups. During those years we were in the finals we really didn't get many great picks especially between 2001 and 2004.

The thing that probably has hurt us also is finishing in places like 10th 11th and 12th after our glory years.

Since 1998 we have had very few high draft picks compared to alot of clubs.

In all honesty we probably should have gone down hill say in 2007 IMO

Its all part of the Football life cycle. In 5 years times teams like St Kilda, Geelong, Collingwood and Western Bulldogs will be suffering the same thing we are right now.

 

[Jose Cruzeiro]

We were in the finals from 1995 to 2004 ( except 1998) and of course during those years we won our 3 cups. During those years we were in the finals we really didn't get many great picks especially between 2001 and 2004.

The thing that probably has hurt us also is finishing in places like 10th 11th and 12th after our glory years.

Since 1998 we have had very few high draft picks compared to alot of clubs.

In all honesty we probably should have gone down hill say in 2007 IMO

Its all part of the Football life cycle. In 5 years times teams like St Kilda, Geelong, Collingwood and Western Bulldogs will be suffering the same thing we are right now.

This is pretty much where its at. It's not a hard and fast rule but generally teams can only stay at the pointy end of the ladder for four, maybe five years tops before they come back to the pack due to the equalisation policy. It's no coincidence that the same thing has happened to Port. We spent 2001 - 2005 in the top 5 (pretty much the time frame you guys were in there), paid for it at the draft and have subsequently spent the last 3 years having our holidays in September.

But in four or five years time both Port and Brisbane will be back in the top 8 and current powerhouses like St. Kilda and Collingwood will probably be struggling to make the finals. The only way you can 'miss the wave' like Richmond did is to waste your high draft picks on total duds.

Polec was a great start for you guys (I wish he was at Port.....classy local kid who barracked for us). Draft a couple more stars like him and you'll be well on your way up.

This talk of 10 years in the wilderness is total rubbish.

 

[LionMen]

I think Aka has more credibility in the media than wallace.

 

[luthor]

Personally I don't think Voss can coach. Just get that feeling.

TFB,I think it's probably still a bit to early to call.

After making the finals in 2009 and being 4-0 after as many rounds in 2010, Vossy was looking like a genius,

The rest (as they say) is history.

A combination of injury, bad luck, the distraction of "Fev-gate", not to mention upheaval at the Board level hasn't helped his cause.

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt at this stage.

Having said that, the Club's internal review has effectively removed all the excuses that Voss may have had....essentially they've said:

"VOSSY....WE'VE THROWN EVERYTHING INCLUDING THE KITCHEN SINK AT MAKING YOU SUCCESSFUL....DON'T STUFF IT UP FOR US!!"

My take on it is that Voss has two seasons to get us looking like a top 4 side....this year he gets quite a bit of latitude.........................come 2012, we better make at least the 8...............or it's curtains.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Luthor, I wish I could see it, but there's very little evidence of Voss imparting his stamp on the team. 2009 reflected the Matthews style of getting it long. Early 2010 we played against weak sides for the most. I remember thinking that we weren't playing great football even then. There's been no great hallmark of our team and it reminds me that our coach was a player of enormous talent - but good coaches make ordinary players look good through discipline and tactical nous. I'm yet to see evidence of that. Voss looks like he coaching by numbers ATM. Sad to say, but IMO the apparent lack of nous he put across as a commentator looks like it has continued through.

 

[Last of the Roys]

Luthor, I wish I could see it, but there's very little evidence of Voss imparting his stamp on the team. 2009 reflected the Matthews style of getting it long. Early 2010 we played against weak sides for the most. I remember thinking that we weren't playing great football even then. There's been no great hallmark of our team and it reminds me that our coach was a player of enormous talent - but good coaches make ordinary players look good through discipline and tactical nous. I'm yet to see evidence of that. Voss looks like he coaching by numbers ATM. Sad to say, but IMO the apparent lack of nous he put across as a commentator looks like it has continued through.

There is part of me that tends to agree with these thoughts. One of the most telling aspect is that most of our on-field structures (and in particular, the implementation of them) remain fairly woeful.
- our midfield / centre clearances;
- our kick-ins
- our kick-in defence
- our zone / full-press zone

Anyway, I have my doubts about Vossy's ability to engineer & implement great on-field strategies (and in relation to his recruitment and list management).

On the other hand, I think he does have a genuine ability to be able to lead / lift performances beyond what many think we are capable of (2009 was indicative of that) through his self-belief and determination (although obviously things have gone pear-shaped recently).

Overall, I still have hope that Voss can be a good coach. However, he is learning on the job and he needs to learn to delegate in areas where he doesn't seem to have the necessary skills.

Hopefully he will succeed, but he has a tough job ahead of him.

 

[Dylan12]

Overall, I still have hope that Voss can be a good coach. However, he is learning on the job and he needs to learn to delegate in areas where he doesn't seem to have the necessary skills.

Hopefully he will succeed, but he has a tough job ahead of him.

I agree, we all want the team to succeed and if the team succeed's, I'd suggest so is Voss, however, if that was not to occur, at what point though does the club say Voss as coach is just not working:

- During/End of the season after only 6-7 wins;
- 2 more years developing the kids...
- other scenarios.

I don't have a definitive opinion as yet, although I doubt we would sack him mid-season. If we weren't to win any more than 5 games and produced many uncompetitive and dispirited games, similar to what I witnessed last year and if there were signs of unrest within the playing group, then, regardless of whether we were on a youth policy, I would consider ending the relationship, although this is somewhat tempered by who we could get to replace him.

If the above occurred and a Paul Roos or even Mick Malthouse or coach of similar ilk wanted to coach us, then I don't see how we could refuse such an appointment.

 

[_hyphy]

IMO I don't see either of Roos or Malthouse entertaining the thought of coaching the Lions next year. There are far more powerful clubs with more upside than us that will be gunning for them (Carlton, West Coast etc).

I was an unabashed proponent of Voss in 2009, our gameplan was working and our team seemed to be playing with both passion and structure. Like I've said before, all I would like to see before we start hunting Voss is to understand what kind of game the Lions bring and if that is good enough to compete with other teams.

 

[Gibbo_88]

I agree, we all want the team to succeed and if the team succeed's, I'd suggest so is Voss, however, if that was not to occur, at what point though does the club say Voss as coach is just not working:

- During/End of the season after only 6-7 wins;
- 2 more years developing the kids...
- other scenarios.

I don't have a definitive opinion as yet, although I doubt we would sack him mid-season. If we weren't to win any more than 5 games and produced many uncompetitive and dispirited games, similar to what I witnessed last year and if there were signs of unrest within the playing group, then, regardless of whether we were on a youth policy, I would consider ending the relationship, although this is somewhat tempered by who we could get to replace him.

I think that it doesn't matter who is coaching us for the next 3 years so why get rid of Voss unless he is not the man to develop a young side and I can't see why he wouldn't be with what he experienced as a young player. We will just be watching our midfield develop and a lot of the time it isn't going to be fun but within 3 years we should have a midfield that can push back into the 8 and then see what happens.

 

[Dylan12]

I think that it doesn't matter who is coaching us for the next 3 years so why get rid of Voss unless he is not the man to develop a young side and I can't see why he wouldn't be with what he experienced as a young player.

I am not saying to get rid of Voss for the sake of it, I am asking at what point, if any, do fellow posters think the club and Voss must part ways based on what, if at all?

Gibbo, do you think Voss has no benchmark for season 2011 and irrespective of what happens, his job is secure in order to develop the kids over the next 3 years?

 

[Tim the Toolman]

Vossie's contract is up at the end of the year. A poor year on the field will inevitably make that decision for the club without anything we can do about it so what we think is not consequential.

We all love Vossy to bits but if he's not up to the job then so be it. Roos and Malthouse have solid coaching records so why shouldn't they be considered for recruitment to the vacant post if it's there in 2012?

Everyone is predicting a wooden spoon for the lions down here so at this stage it doesn't look good but I'll be barracking like hell to see the lions do well in 2012.