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Bailey

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TheBoss said:
I don't care about the results, I care about the effort and execution which have both been lacking this preseason. If you bothered to watch any of the games you will realise that they have taken a few steps backwards.
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Which games have you watched?

Or did you just read the results?

I'll admit I have only listened on the radio but I've heard/read enough positives to have no intention of writing this season off before it's started.
 
demonfan9 said:
Although I have been frustrated at the last two performances, we have to keep in mind that in the big picture, these pre-season games mean absolutely nothing. Nobody looks back in October and discusses the importance of the pre-season matches that took place earlier that year. All that matters is what happens between Round 1 and 22, and hopefully finals after that.

So we need to apply that principle to Dean Bailey when we judge his performance. Look at his most recent season (2010), and judge him on that, not on the result of a couple of practice matches in March. If we look back to last year, I'd say most supporters were pleased with our progress we made during the season. 8.5 wins was about the expectation, we were actually in finals contention with three rounds to go, no massive defeats and an exciting game plan based on attacking run through the centre corridor. It's easy to forget all the positives we took out of last year, for which Bails deserves some credit. First week of the NAB Cup, we go and break a 10 year hoodoo at AAMI Stadium, everyone is up and about, excited for the year ahead. Two weeks later and we're ready to stick the knives into Bailey and the team. We've gotta be a bit more measured than that (hard thing, I know, cos we are all so passionate) but sometimes you have to step back and take a look at the bigger picture before you make judgements.
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This is the best post in this thread.

Just calm down guys, give it to the halfway mark of the season, if we're not 4-6 at the least we should be worried.

Seriously, preseason results don't mean a whole lot.
 
Pre-season results mean nothing

BUT, the things everyone is mentioning a lot (constant turnover across half back resulting in opposition goals & no obvious forward structure) are worrying. If we play like this with a full team in & lose early games in the season proper because of these problems in game plan or execution of game plan, then the questions on Bailey will come thick & fast.

Our first 7 games are all winnable. If we've won less then 4, fire away. But put your guns back in your holsters until then.

We can have a successful year without making the 8, but we need to be in the running for a long part of the season, increase the number of wins from last year & finish above the teams who are on the improve or at a similar level to us like north, essendon, adelaide, etc
 
Chip_ said:
Pre-season results mean nothing

BUT, the things everyone is mentioning a lot (constant turnover across half back resulting in opposition goals & no obvious forward structure) are worrying. If we play like this with a full team in & lose early games in the season proper because of these problems in game plan or execution of game plan, then the questions on Bailey will come thick & fast.

Our first 7 games are all winnable. If we've won less then 4, fire away. But put your guns back in your holsters until then.

We can have a successful year without making the 8, but we need to be in the running for a long part of the season, increase the number of wins from last year & finish above the teams who are on the improve or at a similar level to us like north, essendon, adelaide, etc
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Could not agree more
With our draw this year Anything less than 9th IMO will be a step backwards.
We should right now be putting out feelers to Mick's management.
The guy is the best coach available in 2012.
And he hates losing just remember some of those stares!
Time for some hard action by Dees management in 2011.
This year is about improvement failure to improve is not an option.
 

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davey_magik said:
This is the best post in this thread.

Just calm down guys, give it to the halfway mark of the season, if we're not 4-6 at the least we should be worried.

Seriously, preseason results don't mean a whole lot.
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You know what Davey_magik I am tired of "the big picture"
I want some fierce determination, mongrel attitude and 10 wins nothing less is acceptable.
I want hate from every other club member, some Hawthorn attitude is needed no more down hill skiers!
 
Ageing Demon said:
You know what Davey_magik I am tired of "the big picture"
I want some fierce determination, mongrel attitude and 10 wins nothing less is acceptable.
I want hate from every other club member, some Hawthorn attitude is needed no more down hill skiers!
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I agree.
I realise the buck stops with the coach, but some of the players need to put their hand down their pants and find their balls.
 
TheBoss said:
I don't care about the results, I care about the effort and execution which have both been lacking this preseason. If you bothered to watch any of the games you will realise that they have taken a few steps backwards.
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All reports are that we've had a very solid pre-season on the track. We had a good day in Adelaide, and got done by a much keener Essendon.

Then to be fair the Brisbane game didnt sound great - I would suggest we treated that one as a real scratch match, then went down to Hawthorn who will be a contender this year imo.

Cannot understand why some people are getting agitated already - we'll have a decent picture between around rounds 8 - 10 I reckon.
 
jimmyclean said:
If you accept we took Bailey as a long term coach, then the argument is that they need to spend years learning the strategy and developing as a team. Only then we are at our absolute best chance to win a premiership.

If we decide that Bailey is no good, and then it turns out next person we hire is no good what do we do then? We've essentially wasted a generation of players jumping coaches.

I think it is a far bigger risk to switch coaches than it is to keep Bailey.

Even switching to someone like Malthouse, who knows how the players will react to the change in styles.
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4 years should be enough time to see a fair bit.
Even if the side's not doing everything perfectly; you should be able to see how a coach can plan, see how the plans work, see how the coach is able to react & change it up if certain things are/aren't working & how the players respond - as well as skills/development etc. (which seems to be Bailey's strong suit.)

If he's not the guy who can coach the side from a good talented list, to a solid hard finals-winning side, he's not the guy to go on with.
Whatever risk there is changing is - by definition - smaller than that.

There's not always a perfect time to change, but if there was significant question marks on one guy, and a great opportunity with another guy, I don't know why you wouldn't jump at it.

I'd be very interested in the internal expectations this year. Suspect they might be different to the external ones.
 
jimmyclean said:
It should be, but Malthouse took 11 years.

Melbourne supporters need to grow some patience.
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Yes, but how long was he there before getting them into 2 grand finals in a row??? And Malthouse like Bailey, didn't have much to work with when he arrived. He did have a star in Buckley and loads of cash to spend on the coaching department. And these are the 2 areas i can only find different.

Look, I'm a believer in Bailey, but if something better is out there, we would be stupid not to look into it. We should definitely be approaching Malthouse in some form. Just seeing if he would be interested in coaching us would be all we need to find out. If he's not in the least bit interested, then fine, we stick with Bailey. But what if Malthouse was keen?

Bailey has done a fine job culling and putting together a great group of kids. But does he know where to go from here??? I'm not convinced he has the ability matchday or has the ability to construct a premiership winning gameplan either. I'll be very happy to be proven differently. Either way, 4 years at a club IS a long time, which means this is a massive year for Dean and his coaching staff. A step backwards, even a very small step could spell doom for him with coaches such as Malthouse available at the end of the year.
 
I'm sorry but 4 years is not a long time.

How many of our starting 24 were playing when Dean Bailey started?

He has 4 years, with a VERY small proportion of the entire football department.


Yes Malthouse produced 'some goods' in 2002 and 2003 playing against Brisbane, but it was longer than 4 years between their next grand final appearance.

Honestly thinking that Malthouse (or any great coach for that matter) will walk into any club and make them premiers is simple minded.

I'm not saying Malthouse isn't worth a look at, but I think some of you guys think he is a miracle worker and would want to sack him a few years down the track if he hasn't won you a premiership.
 
Never said produced. Or Malthouse would definitely do this or that.

Of course it'd be stupid to expect Bailey to coach your bunch of kids to prelim success or a flag this early - just as it's stupid to expect any kid to win awards & B&Fs in their first couple years.

Just like with the kids- the real question is have you seen enough in Bailey to suggest he can be a great coach in time?

If not, you'd have to question why he's worht persevering with.
 
Crusty Demon said:
Yes, but how long was he there before getting them into 2 grand finals in a row??? And Malthouse like Bailey, didn't have much to work with when he arrived. He did have a star in Buckley and loads of cash to spend on the coaching department. And these are the 2 areas i can only find different.

Look, I'm a believer in Bailey, but if something better is out there, we would be stupid not to look into it. We should definitely be approaching Malthouse in some form. Just seeing if he would be interested in coaching us would be all we need to find out. If he's not in the least bit interested, then fine, we stick with Bailey. But what if Malthouse was keen?

Bailey has done a fine job culling and putting together a great group of kids. But does he know where to go from here??? I'm not convinced he has the ability matchday or has the ability to construct a premiership winning gameplan either. I'll be very happy to be proven differently. Either way, 4 years at a club IS a long time, which means this is a massive year for Dean and his coaching staff. A step backwards, even a very small step could spell doom for him with coaches such as Malthouse available at the end of the year.
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Seems a fair summation to me!
 

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jimmyclean said:
I'm sorry but 4 years is not a long time.

How many of our starting 24 were playing when Dean Bailey started?

He has 4 years, with a VERY small proportion of the entire football department.


Yes Malthouse produced 'some goods' in 2002 and 2003 playing against Brisbane, but it was longer than 4 years between their next grand final appearance.

Honestly thinking that Malthouse (or any great coach for that matter) will walk into any club and make them premiers is simple minded.

I'm not saying Malthouse isn't worth a look at, but I think some of you guys think he is a miracle worker and would want to sack him a few years down the track if he hasn't won you a premiership.
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May not be for you JC but it is a hell of a long time for me.
Have you thought of the fact that Malthouse/ Collingwood have put together a premiership side without the benefit for early draft picks.
No playing dead from them to get tom scully.
They have given their best every year and then worked out who are the best players to draft.
As much as it grieves me to say it we can learn a lot from MM and the Pies.
In the last 20 years they have won two flags and very seldom been out of the finals.
Makes the Dees look a little feable!
 
Ageing Demon said:
May not be for you JC but it is a hell of a long time for me.
Have you thought of the fact that Malthouse/ Collingwood have put together a premiership side without the benefit for early draft picks.
No playing dead from them to get tom scully.
They have given their best every year and then worked out who are the best players to draft.
As much as it grieves me to say it we can learn a lot from MM and the Pies.
In the last 20 years they have won two flags and very seldom been out of the finals.
Makes the Dees look a little feable!
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In 20 years they have basically had 2 coaches though.

Malthouse might not have had early draft picks but he has had the benefit of time. The team was close in the Early 2000's but since then the team has been rebuilt and are now premiers.
Mark Thompson had a decade to complete a similar story.

I'd hate to see Bailey join another club and become a premiership coach there.

Personally I place my trust in the football department, they've done wonders in the last few years and until they tell me Bailey isn't the right man, I am on board.
 
jimmyclean said:
In 20 years they have basically had 2 coaches though.

Malthouse might not have had early draft picks but he has had the benefit of time. The team was close in the Early 2000's but since then the team has been rebuilt and are now premiers.
Mark Thompson had a decade to complete a similar story.

I'd hate to see Bailey join another club and become a premiership coach there.

Personally I place my trust in the football department, they've done wonders in the last few years and until they tell me Bailey isn't the right man, I am on board.
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I'm not sure what wonders they have done? They have culled the list as deep as Ive ever seen it at Melbourne before. They recruited some potentially great players through the draft due to poor performances on the field. Anyone could do that. Wonders would be making the finals this year with a young list. Lets see if they can do that.

And yes, trust in the football department is all we really have. As long as the players and the board believe in Bailey, we have to believe he's the right guy. All I'm arguing, is I feel Malthouse is worth a sneaky look. If he's interested in coaching us, then we have to seriously ask if Dean Bailey is the right man to take us any further. Malthouse is a proven performer, and we'd be stupid to not enquire...
 
Crusty Demon said:
I'm not sure what wonders they have done? They have culled the list as deep as Ive ever seen it at Melbourne before. They recruited some potentially great players through the draft due to poor performances on the field. Anyone could do that. Wonders would be making the finals this year with a young list. Lets see if they can do that.

And yes, trust in the football department is all we really have. As long as the players and the board believe in Bailey, we have to believe he's the right guy. All I'm arguing, is I feel Malthouse is worth a sneaky look. If he's interested in coaching us, then we have to seriously ask if Dean Bailey is the right man to take us any further. Malthouse is a proven performer, and we'd be stupid to not enquire...
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That statement I was referring to sacking of the crud in the board and the removal of the debt. Granted they're probably not exactly the same people running departments, but I have faith in the people Stynes put in place. If they believe Bailey is the best man for the job, so do I.
 

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jimmyclean said:
In 20 years they have basically had 2 coaches though.

Malthouse might not have had early draft picks but he has had the benefit of time. The team was close in the Early 2000's but since then the team has been rebuilt and are now premiers.
Mark Thompson had a decade to complete a similar story.

I'd hate to see Bailey join another club and become a premiership coach there.

Personally I place my trust in the football department, they've done wonders in the last few years and until they tell me Bailey isn't the right man, I am on board.
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He is not going anywhere unless we finish lower than last year.
Our club has hooked their wagon to Bailey, at this point I have very little idea if he is good or ordinary.
Over the last 3 years he has had little to work with so it is next to impossioble from the outer to judge.
By the way where would he go if we flung him anyway another assistant at Essendon!
 
jimmyclean said:
I'd hate to see Bailey join another club and become a premiership coach there.
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You won't see Bailey become a premiership coach, he is out of his depth on matchday, some of his tactical decisions just boggle the mind. I'd like to see him paired with a good matchday coach such as Roos as I think Bailey has some value in a coaching capacity.
 
jimmyclean said:
If they believe Bailey is the best man for the job, so do I.
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They thought he was the best candidate at the time he was appointed. His contract is up at the end of the season, there is nothing wrong with MFC seeing who else is available on the market to improve the coaching dept.

After seeing how the Tigers rapidly improved under Hardwick I have a feeling we may have missed out, but time will tell.
 
They're still cleaning out their list, plus the game plan is much improved. They've got a few good pieces to build a finals side around.

(Plus it was more wins than what Bailey had in his first year)
 
TheBoss said:
They're still cleaning out their list, plus the game plan is much improved. They've got a few good pieces to build a finals side around.

(Plus it was more wins than what Bailey had in his first year)
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You should check out

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=800451

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=800101

might find some people who disagree with you.

I don't see how you consider Melbourne are in a bad position, but Richmond are in a good position.
 

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