David Hale - Does he have a future?

[Consumed]

Bailey and Hale our best combo.

Rough pinch hitting.

Sooze, lowden, Johnson depth

I agree. You need 2 big key forwards to really dominate games. Roughie is great in the ruck at the moment, but adding Hale in the rotation of forward/ruck will really throw the balance out for opposing teams defenders.

Big Bailey can also switch to FF if necessary, which is an advantage over benching the resting ruck.

 

[Rioli magic]

Pelch and Clarko must think he is good coz they paid lots for him. They also dont think that they other guys are much good or they wouldnt have done it. I'd rather just have paul johnson when we need him - and have kept the draft picks - esp the 27 pick could have been saved and used later when it was worth more - but I guess Clarko and Pelch were recruiting to save their jobs.

Madness!! Football Clubs recruiting to try an improve their chance of success...

 

[Mitchemx]

He'll be back in the team when he's fit and ready. There's no way Clarko gave up a first round draft pick to have him playing VFL. He obviously sees him as part of the plan going forward.

His form pre injury was so so. Thought he was ok at best. Whilst he doesn't have Bailey's rucking ability, he gives more around the ground and can go forward. If by chance he can take a few grabs and kick a few goals he'll be extremely valuable.

Rough is playing great in the ruck at the moment but i'm not sure if it's going to be his gig long term. He's gotten into the game and gained some confidence, it might be time to move him back forward to give us another option. When you look at Geelong and Collingwood as the yard sticks, they both go in with two tall marking targets. Colllingwood has Dawes and Cloke, whilst still playing a Jolly in the ruck with Brown as his back up. It wouldn't be the worst idea to take a leaf from their book.

Whilst it's working well against some average teams, i think just playing Franklin as the sole target up forward will be a bit one dimensional against the good sides. Going forward i can see Bailey as our number one option, with Hale and Rough both rotating through the ruck and up forward. I don't think it'll make us too top heavy as really the only old fashioned talls out there would be Hale and Bailey, as both Rough and Franklin are fairly quick and good at ground level.

Saying all this his form has to warrant a spot in the team. If he gets back and doesn't perform well or it isn't working then he's out.

 

[mrcurly]

I have been underwhelmed with Hale efforts as a forward option, with the three big guys up there we have looked glacially slow. He is a better option as a relief ruck if Roughie moves forward, though i have really enjoyed Roughies rebirth as a pseudo ruckrover.
When Hale shouldered the ruck in the second half of the Melbourne game i thought he did really well, he was also doing well before he was injured against the Saints.

Its difficult to judge a players worth if they are under an injury cloud, Hale had the achilles problem early in the season, who knows what he would be like fully fit, wearing the right size shorts and familiar with the gameplan.

Anyhow - I don't think Hale will get the cut, more likely Johnson. My preferred order for our ruck has Bailey doing the majority of the rucking with Roughy as backup, would love to see Lowden at some point as a #1 ruck, Hale or Renouf can provide backup if there are injuries or we want to move Roughy forward permanently. Renouf may have plenty of heart and built up his endurance, but i cannot see his skill levels complimenting our current style of play, he would become a liability once the ruck duels are done unless he can sharpen up his skill levels significantly. That will not happen overnight.

 

[Dollars Inc]

I have to be honest. How nice is it that we can argue what the better option is? I can recall having Franklin suspended and going into games with Roughead as our ruck and Lewis at Full Forward. Love the luxury of having Bailey fit, Rough doing spurt damage and having Renouf, Hale and the pick of the bunch Lowden coming on. Would love to see two years time and we have Bailey/Lowden with Rough from time to time. All three can play forward and Lowden is in the Cox ilk. Grimley is a potential CHB

 

[MightyHawks]

Ok. Lets assume that David Hale is not in our best 22.

And we don't want him playing as long as Roughy, Buddy and either Renouf or Bailey are playing.

You'd expect that Buddy and Roughy would miss 2 games in a year and there's probably another 2 that both Renouf & Bailey are missing as well.

There's 6 games that we need him to play.

People have short memories.

Our 2010 season was cooked when we had ruck issues in the first 6-7 weeks. How David Hale would have helped then.

We're not going to win too many matches if Roughy is rucking all day or if we're playing both Bailey and Renouf because Roughy isn't playing.

Happy with getting Hale even if it's just for depth. Maybe he is in our best 22 as well... let's see how the season unfolds.

I think a great way of managing Roughy over the season would be to either give him a couple of games rest, or to have at least 4 matches where we don't put him in the ruck at all because we have Bailey/Renouf and Hale in the team.

 

[Furn]

Rucks are like guns.

Better to have one and not need it, than to need one and not have one.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

...There's 6 games that we need him to play.

People have short memories.

Our 2010 season was cooked when we had ruck issues in the first 6-7 weeks. How David Hale would have helped then.
..

Given our recent ruck shortage we had no option but to recruit someone like Hale. Important back up player.

We have Suzie, Max, Hale, Lowden, Grimley and now Roughie. Probably one too many for list balance. If we can magically turn Grimley into a KPD we are laughing.

 

[Boyler_Room]

Given our recent ruck shortage we had no option but to recruit someone like Hale. Important back up player.

We have Suzie, Max, Hale, Lowden, Grimley and now Roughie. Probably one too many for list balance. If we can magically turn Grimley into a KPD we are laughing.

The way it's turned out could we have kept Simon Taylor and also kept the draft picks we used on Hale?

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Hale isn't in our best 22. All he was doing when he was playing was clogging up the forward line for Buddy. Can't ruck and is a below average forward at best, who wasn't good enough to get a game at the Kangaroos.

My fear is when Hale comes back, Roughy wil be moved back up forward and the turn back into the bad Roughead. The forward line will also be too top heavy again.

I don't think there is room for Renouf, Hale or Bruce in our best 22 tbh. Bailey rucking and Roughead as the second ruck is a perfect combination. The forward line is a lot better with Buddy having more room to move as well, without having Hale clogging it up.

 

[Hawkzzz]

I think Roughy should get himself into the game as a Ruck/on ball player, then give us a strong target up fwd for the majority of the game. Especially against the top 2 sides. (this means Bailey and one of Hale or Renouf to play). Just as Franklin gets his confidence up when he gets a few touches in the middle, we've seen Roughy do the same. However, we haven't seen him stay fwd for long periods since this tactic. I'm interested to see if this confidence can translate to dominance up fwd, I suppose.

I say this because the pressure the top 2 sides put on will often require us to kick long into our fwd 50. With only one tall in Franklin there, it's a big ask.

When Franklin or Rough can't mark, bring it to ground and let guys like Rioli, Ossie, rotating mids (like Hodge) have opportunities to score.

Rough can often kick 3 goals and set up another couple. Importantly, he attracts another quality defender.

So Bailey and Hale can go full bore until 3qtr time and one of them can be subbed off. Also, if we go with one ruck and he gets injured, it's a big ask for Rough to Ruck for the majority of the game. I also don't see Bailey kicking goals at the moment. He's great in the Ruck which is a big plus. Add Hale and Renouf and usually they have kicked a couple when they go fwd.

Clarko is fully aware of all this and it will be interesting which way he will go when we play the cats. An extra runner vs Key Fwd. Maybe he'll go with an extra Ruck and sub one off after half way through the third qtr. But I'm most likely wrong.

 

[wallyt99]

My fear is when Hale comes back, Roughy wil be moved back up forward and the turn back into the bad Roughead. The forward line will also be too top heavy again.

I don't think there is room for Renouf, Hale or Bruce in our best 22 tbh. Bailey rucking and Roughead as the second ruck is a perfect combination. The forward line is a lot better with Buddy having more room to move as well, without having Hale clogging it up.

Yes but...

I think a great way of managing Roughy over the season would be to either give him a couple of games rest, or to have at least 4 matches where we don't put him in the ruck at all because we have Bailey/Renouf and Hale in the team.

 

[burner1]

I actualy think we're a bit short up forward when roughy is rucking as buddy can't contest a mark to save himself anymore - buddy to me is now a high half forward. We may need some additional contested marking power in the finals.

If hale can provide a target in the square and a contest then he's done his job - lets not forget that we are now actually playing crumbers in the forward line. Against teams like geelong we just couldn't stop their tall defenders marking it - hopefully hale can do this when/if he gets into some form.

I think rough would play as a high CHF when hale is down forward anyway - we've seen him be so good around the ground it would be stupid to not to give him time there - and rotate to a deep forward when hale is in the ruck.

 

[WillowSF]

I thought we overpaid for Hale but I still think he has something to offer. Ultimately our best team will consist of either Bailey/Renouf or Bailey/Hale or Renouf/Hale. (Rotated off the bench as opposed to resting in the forward line.) Come finals time I don't think a backline of Gibson, Murphy and Shoenmakers as talls is going to get it done against Geelong or Collingwood so we won't have the luxury of giving Roughead so much time rucking. Roughead I suspect will be needed down back for extended periods while also playing on the ball and up forward.

 

[Jason Dunstall]

Pelch and Clarko must think he is good coz they paid lots for him. They also dont think that they other guys are much good or they wouldnt have done it. I'd rather just have paul johnson when we need him - and have kept the draft picks - esp the 27 pick could have been saved and used later when it was worth more - but I guess Clarko and Pelch were recruiting to save their jobs.

Nice theory, but where is Paul Johnson?

oh, thats right, injured....

We needed another big bodied, ready to go ruckman. Hale was it, rightly or wrongly there wasn't much else about.

 

[The Kipster]

For mine Hale has a role but needs to build on his tank...after years playing forward he has lost some engine, back to BH to build on it...until further notice

 

[vaughnie]

I actualy think we're a bit short up forward when roughy is rucking as buddy can't contest a mark to save himself anymore - buddy to me is now a high half forward. We may need some additional contested marking power in the finals.

Exactly. I thought at times on Sunday we were quite one dimensional with Buddy one out. And, as you say, he isn't a contested mark type forward. We need to have someone down there who can clunk a contested mark or two.

I think in the big games we will need Roughie's size to split packs and take the contested mark.

Despite his goals against Port, Renouf is a horrible kick at goal but can get the ball. Hale is quite a nice kick but doesn't get much of it. And I haven't seen enough of Max to make a judgement. Interesting times for the selection panel.

 

[go hawks!!!]

Interesting times for the selection panel.

And that is a bloody good thing. Our ruck stocks have not been this healthy since 2008 when Renouf replaced Taylor.

 

[Roby]

It's funny we have 3 pages of posts but everybody misses the most crucial thing about the ruck situation at the moment.

Recently Hawthorn have been of the worst and at times the worst contested mark team in the AFL. We do not have a lot mobile tall forwards, and for all of Buddy's athleticism he is not a very good contested mark.

Roughhead playing more ruck means, we have him taking marks all over the ground. We have a "get out kick" and this invaluable. As invaluable, if not more to us, that hitouts to advantage. Which by the way Roughy has shown to be most competent in. He has also been adding an additional 4 clearances a game.

You could also argue by plonking Roughy in the forward line he will go back to struggling like he was before. And also getting in Buddy's way. Making both players less effective.

I think you guys also forget, we have played with NO RUCKMEN and different stages with the use of a sub and on some occasions played even better.

So it's quite simple.

Renouf and Bailey fight out for one spot. Hale, Lowden, Grimley are now depth.

 

[benhawk]

Bump - Some funny stuff in here

 

[Taskmaster]

It's funny we have 3 pages of posts but everybody misses the most crucial thing about the ruck situation at the moment.

Recently Hawthorn have been of the worst and at times the worst contested mark team in the AFL. We do not have a lot mobile tall forwards, and for all of Buddy's athleticism he is not a very good contested mark.

Roughhead playing more ruck means, we have him taking marks all over the ground. We have a "get out kick" and this invaluable. As invaluable, if not more to us, that hitouts to advantage. Which by the way Roughy has shown to be most competent in. He has also been adding an additional 4 clearances a game.

You could also argue by plonking Roughy in the forward line he will go back to struggling like he was before. And also getting in Buddy's way. Making both players less effective.

I think you guys also forget, we have played with NO RUCKMEN and different stages with the use of a sub and on some occasions played even better.

So it's quite simple.

Renouf and Bailey fight out for one spot. Hale, Lowden, Grimley are now depth.

I dont get how people think that Renouf is our No 1 Ruck. That has got me stuffed! I think Bailey and Hale have overtaken Renouf, well Bailey was injured and we had not recruited Hale yet. Rough a great backup.

Sorry but I dont see a future for Renouf!

 

[whiteTiga2k]

hahaha yeah his addition now looks a lot better then on Jun 1st

 

[Davo23]

I do not think David Hale has a future at our club.


So, my feeling is:

Hale delisted at the end of this year.

Those are my thoughts.

BigFooty experts: can't live with them, can't have a footy website without them!


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[Roddy]

Big blokes always take longer to develop, whether it's when they're first starting or starting at a new club. Fans always jump to conclusions, kneejerk and rip the shit out of players. Give them time and they often come good. Hale has been awesome in the last few weeks, obviously he has found his feet in his new club. I expect more of that from him in the coming weeks and into the finals. VERY important player for us now.

 

[Hawsome]

David Hale has been tremendous over the past month. He has been effective as a backup ruckman and been good down forward as well. He is better overhead than Franklyn.

Barring an injury, I cannot see Renouf getting back in as he is not strong enough around the ground in general play and is prone to clangers.