Quicky's list draft and trade talk thread 2011

[Ed D]

Yeah thats true. Thats where the turning him around part comes in. If we weren't giving up anything we were going to miss i.e. a fringe player looking for greater opportunities elsewhere I think it would make a lot of sense from a list balance perspective. We would get some key forward depth and a mature and versatile ruck option (or maybe starter).

Yeah, if he didn't cost much he'd be worth a punt.

 

[Zahki]

I'd take Jesse White in a heartbeat. I think he'd be a perfect replacement for Leigh Brown and could really benefit from a change of scenery. I think Bucks could mould him into a really good player in time.

 

[Kirby]

I don't mind Jesse White as a footballer and I can see the sense in going after him but it greatly concerns me that he seems to lack desire and committment.

Seeing that he comes from such a disciplined team as Sydney that is a worry. It's not like he's been at a rabble of a club. They tend to get the best out of their players. If he'd been at Richmond or some other crap club I would be more confident of turning him around.

 

[Trojan Pies]

I don't mind Jesse White as a footballer and I can see the sense in going after him but it greatly concerns me that he seems to lack desire and committment.

Seeing that he comes from such a disciplined team as Sydney that is a worry. It's not like he's been at a rabble of a club. They tend to get the best out of their players. If he'd been at Richmond or some other crap club I would be more confident of turning him around.

Outstanding call Kirby.

 

[Quicky]

There has been a lot of rumours flying around.

If you believe reports there has been interest in both Macaffer and Toovey from out west and Beams up north. To me these rumours do not have a ring of truth to them.

In Tooveys case the rumours are based largely on a manager trying to get the best deal for his client. Hardly revolutionary stuff there. I think it is important to remember that Collingwood has not lost any players it has wanted to keep since Nick Davis left for Sydney and has a good record of retaining players it wants to keep. I don't see why we wouldn't want to accomodate Toovey. Typically the players that have left this club have done so for greater opportunity and Toovey doesn't fall into this category.

The Macaffer rumours also appear off the mark to me. I think he is a player we will want to retain although this may depend on where Buckley has told Macaffer he stands in the 22. I can see him moving for greater opportunity if he doesn't feature strongly in considerations for the 22. The rumours of Macaffer going to WC though seem really dubious to me. I just don't see him as a player they would chase.

On the Beams rumour who knows. I think that one is harder to get a gauge on. As I understand it he is contracted (correct me if i'm wrong) so we hold the position of power. I don't see us giving him up unless he wanted out and on top of that we got a deal we couldn't refuse.

If the rumours are true, and this seems to have a lot more basis (is that correct grammar), that we have done a deal with GWS for Clarke and Elliot I think that makes the Beams leaving rumour less likely.

On the Clarke Elliot deal, if it goes through, what a coup!! Similar to Krakouer and Ceglar last year we are positioning ourselves really well in years that the draft is compromised and weak. We will have gotten two promising youngsters in positions of weakness and two ready made established picks with our weak first round picks. That is great list management.

There was a feeling that we were going after pacy, well skilled players this year and Elliot fits the agenda there. He is great overhead for his size too although his one knock is his height at 175cm. If only he had another 3 or 4 inches. In any case he looks a likely type.

Clarke, welcome back (fingers crossed)!! Shattered when he left. He will be a great addition to the side in an area we need greater depth as a linking outside type. I felt we lacked that spread at times this year and Clarke will help redress that if in fact the deal goes through.

 

[Stripes B and W]

Quicky, my feeling on the Marty situation is that for it to be a good deal, we must rate the kid to be around a 25 pick. He appears the type, we need minus a couple of cm ( perhaps) as you say.
We all love Marty i know, but he was just OK a couple of years ago, the game has changed etc etc...He can replace another fringe/depth player i guess. He was loved around the place so from that point of view its a win, work ethic etc. i see Marty as a quality depth player.

Which fringe type player to keep or be prepared to trade?
I would be very keen to keep Caff, Goldy if possible. Maybe Buckley and Jmac mosre likely if deals can be done.
Tooves and Beams are not fringe type players and unless a deal we cant refuse lobs on the table they stay for mine....

 

[10571z]

Correct me if im wrong but didnt he miss out on the 2010 afl draft for not being good enough? i dont really wanna see our top pick go for a fringe irishmen who hasnt played afl in 2 years and a kid who wasnt good enough to be drafted 12 months ago

Mate there are heaps of stories like this. I know people personally who just bloomed after leaving the knights or cannons ect. Wait and see who we pick up this draft

 

[TradeDraft]

Pies did NOT nominate Startevitch for Father and Son

 

[Shade]

Pies did NOT nominate Startevitch for Father and Son

can we still rookie list a father son player?

 

[Heritier 09]

No need to make excuses for being a tosser.. you do get this is completely pointless right?

The professionals are already doing this and I can guaran ****ing tee they aren't popping in to check what some loser that lives on the net is compiling

ummm... what?
show some respect. this thread is compiled with careful thought, in much the same way that the "professionals" conduct their pieces. Nowhere on the internet is an overview of the collingwood list available in the kind of detail that both Quick and Knight give us.
They both support the club and provide in depth football knowledge when making their assessments. By the sounds of it you're not fit to shine their shoes.

 

[blaze036]

Gonna be hard to get a decent ruckmen without pick 25 now... gonna have to throw in a player like goldsack macaffer beams.

Goldsack + Beams for J.White and sydneys first round pick? whata u reckon.

We can ontrade that 1st round pick for more experience, O'Meara or find a stellar kid

 

[Shade]

Gonna be hard to get a decent ruckmen without pick 25 now... gonna have to throw in a player like goldsack macaffer beams.

Goldsack + Beams for J.White and sydneys first round pick? whata u reckon.

We can ontrade that 1st round pick for more experience, O'Meara or find a stellar kid

why do we need another ruckmen now when Jolly said he has 2/3 more years

 

[Harry O]

Gonna be hard to get a decent ruckmen without pick 25 now... gonna have to throw in a player like goldsack macaffer beams.

Goldsack + Beams for J.White and sydneys first round pick? whata u reckon.

We can ontrade that 1st round pick for more experience, O'Meara or find a stellar kid

How did decent ruck and Jesse White make the same post. In fact forget 'decent ruck', what about 'decent footballer'.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Yeah the pros are quaking in their boots

Can't say that I have seen you around before, TheJimmy, but you act as if you have been contributing to this board for years. I am also finding it very difficult to understand what your problem is with this thread. Would you prefer if no discussion took place till after the draft of the possible, albeit then actual, draftees? Mind you, that will also take place regardless of any discussion here.
As others have suggested, some respect would be nice.

 

[Quicky]

Quicky, my feeling on the Marty situation is that for it to be a good deal, we must rate the kid to be around a 25 pick. He appears the type, we need minus a couple of cm ( perhaps) as you say.
We all love Marty i know, but he was just OK a couple of years ago, the game has changed etc etc...He can replace another fringe/depth player i guess. He was loved around the place so from that point of view its a win, work ethic etc. i see Marty as a quality depth player.

Which fringe type player to keep or be prepared to trade?
I would be very keen to keep Caff, Goldy if possible. Maybe Buckley and Jmac mosre likely if deals can be done.
Tooves and Beams are not fringe type players and unless a deal we cant refuse lobs on the table they stay for mine....

Yeah I agree with that. Fortunately Hine has a good track record with obscure picks. Elliot could well be in this category. Going off the limited footage in the highlights he seems to have everything we are after besides the height. But that isn't always a limiting factor.

On Marty the thing I am most excited about is that we at times lacked spread this year and Marty is really good at this. His endurance is fantastic, he knows where to run, has great instinct and is damaging with his disposal.

I think in snaring a more than handy ready made player during our window and a very promising youngster in a position we are looking to add to is a big win in what is considered an even draft after the obvious top picks.

In regards to our fringe players it is my hope we keep as many as possible. We desperately require depth. The only reason i'd like to see us lose fringe players is because they request a trade for opportunities. In this instance it is poor form to stand in their way. The players that I think are most likely to look for opportunities elsewhere are McCarthy, Goldsack and Rounds.

Gonna be hard to get a decent ruckmen without pick 25 now... gonna have to throw in a player like goldsack macaffer beams.

Goldsack + Beams for J.White and sydneys first round pick? whata u reckon.

We can ontrade that 1st round pick for more experience, O'Meara or find a stellar kid

Why do we need a mature ruckman? We have Jolly and Wood. Goldsack and Beams is massive massive overs for White regardless of what picks are thrown into the deal. Jesse White I like as a hypothertical as much for key forward insurance as his ruck ability.

And Sydneys 1st rounder will not get us anywhere near O'Meara. Totally inplausible.

 

[carnthepies19]

Maybe we could look at Elliott Yeo (East Fremantle) for a role similar to Leon Davis. He's lightnight quick and has a good kick on him and looks to have good strength to get out of tackles.

Cameron Tudor (Geelong Falcons) looks like a good replacement for Leigh Brown. He can ruck, he's only 195 cm though and is a 19 year old. He can take a good grab and can run well for his height. Put him through a good preseason and he should be a lot bulkier.

Corey Gault (Swan Districts) is another, at 19 years of age and 197 cm could cut the Leigh Brown role. Needs to get a bit of muscle on because at the moment he looks like a bit of a twig. Got 219 hitouts in the colts this year in only 10 games. Can get around the ground and rack up some possessions. Knows where the goals are and has good tackling pressure around the ground, also good below his knees.

The two ruckmen will most likely still be there by our first live pick, so we should have a chance in going after them. Yeo will probably go before our first live pick, which is most likely to be our second rounder after the Clarke trade.

Kelvin Williams (NT) looks like a younger, quicker, more accurate version of Alan Toovey. Should Tooves walk out, Williams would be the perfect replacement. He is very accurate by foot and hand, he reads the play very well and can play on both tall or small forwards. Turns 19 at the end of the year and is 189 cm.

Steven Verrier (South Fremantle) to me, looks like a Luke Ball/Steele Sidebottom combination. Knows where the goals are, and is very very strong. Tackles well and uses the ball well. Good in the packs too and is also fairly quick.

These two players I haven't heard much about, so I would be fairly confident they will still be availiable when our selections come around.

 

[blaze036]

why do we need another ruckmen now when Jolly said he has 2/3 more years

Because Jolly reinjured his knee 3 times this year and its most likely a degerative injury as surgery did not fix it. He looked very sore and slow most of this year.

An injured jolly + cam wood as our rucks = good bye very good 2012 premiership chance

 

[Quicky]

Cameron Tudor (Geelong Falcons) looks like a good replacement for Leigh Brown. He can ruck, he's only 195 cm though and is a 19 year old. He can take a good grab and can run well for his height. Put him through a good preseason and he should be a lot bulkier.

Corey Gault (Swan Districts) is another, at 19 years of age and 197 cm could cut the Leigh Brown role. Needs to get a bit of muscle on because at the moment he looks like a bit of a twig. Got 219 hitouts in the colts this year in only 10 games. Can get around the ground and rack up some possessions. Knows where the goals are and has good tackling pressure around the ground, also good below his knees.

The two ruckmen will most likely still be there by our first live pick, so we should have a chance in going after them. Yeo will probably go before our first live pick, which is most likely to be our second rounder after the Clarke trade.

I think the thing is if we go for a Leigh Brown replacement we need someone who can step in and fill that role immediately. In the longer term we look ok with our ruck depth with Wood, Witts and Ceglar. That said I have heard some rumours linking us to some young ruckman this year in addition to Witts so who know.

Do you have vids for any of those guys carnthepies19?

 

[Quicky]

Because Jolly reinjured his knee 3 times this year and its most likely a degerative injury as surgery did not fix it. He looked very sore and slow most of this year.

An injured jolly + cam wood as our rucks = good bye very good 2012 premiership chance

This is purely hearsay. What did you base this comment on again? Jollys injury in the Grand Final was a left groin (his jumping leg) and right abductor (his kicking side). It wasn't even knee related.

 

[blaze036]

This is purely hearsay. What did you base this comment on again? Jollys injury in the Grand Final was a left groin (his jumping leg) and right abductor (his kicking side). It wasn't even knee related.

Arn't abductor and groin the same? ^.^

He was also clutching at his knee during the GF cant remember when, if u watch the reply u'll see it. Of course its hearsay but even if its not degenerative his still getting really injury prone late in his career he could even retire now.

 

[carnthepies19]

I think the thing is if we go for a Leigh Brown replacement we need someone who can step in and fill that role immediately. In the longer term we look ok with our ruck depth with Wood, Witts and Ceglar. That said I have heard some rumours linking us to some young ruckman this year in addition to Witts so who know.

Do you have vids for any of those guys carnthepies19?

Yep, Corey Gault - (He's the #35 in the orange/yellow jumper)
[YOUTUBE]BaHI-2VqlDw[/YOUTUBE]

I couldn't find any videos on Cameron Tudor though.

 

[carnthepies19]

why do we need another ruckmen now when Jolly said he has 2/3 more years

Considering Jolls has missed a fair bit of footy this year with injury or has just played injured, Cam Wood would be our only ruckman that is ready for AFL. With Leroy Brown retired then it would be Woody holding his own, with no backup.

 

[Zahki]

Ceglar? I remember people saying he showed good signs in the VFL. He should be ready to play a few games next year right?

 

[soreplums]

Arn't abductor and groin the same? ^.^

He was also clutching at his knee during the GF cant remember when, if u watch the reply u'll see it. Of course its hearsay but even if its not degenerative his still getting really injury prone late in his career he could even retire now.

It was his opposite knee

 

[Quicky]

He was also clutching at his knee during the GF cant remember when, if u watch the reply u'll see it. Of course its hearsay but even if its not degenerative his still getting really injury prone late in his career he could even retire now.

Yeah but where did you get the information that he has a "degenerative" knee injury?

Certainly his injury issues were a concern this year but calls that he is about to retire because of them seem to be drawing a very long bow based off very little.

Ceglar? I remember people saying he showed good signs in the VFL. He should be ready to play a few games next year right?

From the handful of his games I saw of his in the VFL I thought he was ready for senior footy. Many seem to think otherwise including people who have seen more of him than I have. Maybe I caught some good games. I think importantly he has good potential as a forward. He presents well and leads at the ball really strongly. Can take a mark too. He is a much more natural forward than Keeffe is who got time in that role this year. I'd worry about being top heavy though as he has the mobility of a typical ruckman not some of the more athletic big guys that are playing that ruck role atm.