Draft Watcher Knightmare's 2012 Mock Draft

[Tommy D]

I'd expect the dees to trade at least one pick.

Hopefully for a kid like Caddy, but probably wouldn't get him.

Given that this draft is meant to be extremely good, and the fact that Caddy hasn't done anything big to write home about yet (he's only played 5 or so games), it would need to be very worthwhile for us to trade any of the early picks we'll have in this years draft, as i unfortunately think they will be quite high indeed.

 

[Enforcer25]

Caddy had injuries last year, but is highly rated and just the type we need at MFC.

 

[Knightmare]

What are your thoughts on Jake Neade & Nick Ripppn from rebals?

Not as familiar with Rippon.

But certainly like Neade's game. Has some real talent. Looks dangerous up forward and can inject serious energy through the midfield for short periods.

Hey Knightmare, Happy Easter....

Watching the Chargers V Pioneers game, I loved the way Sam Heavyside went about it. His work and effort around the stoppages got the Pioneers back into the game in the last quarter, which they eventually won. How do you rate his prospects? I dont hear or read much about him, to me he plays in the Sam Mitchell/Brad Sewell mould, inside mid, keeps his feet, can extract the footy through traffic. He's done it 2 weeks in a row for the Pioneers, hope he gets a crack at it for Vic Country....
Your thoughts.....?

Really nice summation of his game. Probably a little taller than a Sam Mitchell, but looks like a real chance to get drafted from the Pioneers if he has a strong year. Heavyside is a real goer. Really tough as nails. Wins the ball. Tackles hard. Like his game. Certainly one I'll be looking at around draft time.

Mate, your phantom drafts are always a great read.

Given the Dogs have 2 first rounders (and assuming we won't have to use one on Hunter), I definitely think we will try to draft 2 polished users of the footy. Aside from Dahlhaus, we seem to lack a bit of pace through the midfield in our younger brigade, we are probably covered for inner mids, rucks and key possie players...

Just a quick one regarding the teams / pick numbers and the compensation picks that have been activated (I know you just put teams in there based on where you think they'll finish, but still, for accuracy)...

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=131093

• Melbourne have activated 2 compo picks
  - After their first round selection; and
  - In the middle of the first round of the draft (i.e. between eighth and ninth placed teams' first round selections)
• Western Bulldogs have activated 2 compo picks
  - After their first round selection
  - After their third round selection
• GWS have activated 1 compo pick
  - After Adelaide's first round selection
• Brisbane have activated 1 compo pick
  - At the completion of the first round.
• Richmond have activated 1 compo pick
  - At the completion of the second round (I think)...

At this stage not focusing on who has which compo picks. Just want to get some names out there and into discuss about all.

But certainly all these will be in my final draft.

There are allot of very handy outside mids in this draft so you might get your wish.

If you are looking for out and out pace there are few quicker than Matthew Haynes. Has unbelieveable line breaking ability. Isaac Smith like in that regard.

Josh Simpson and Dayle Garlett if available are also very much worth looking at with that other selection.

The issues that you highlighted about Carlton's depth is what i was more leading to with my comment about the Lion's midfield. I do like what i see from the 3 R's but top teams have anything of up to 10 top line mids with 2 or 3 elite. This relates back to my comment of having a crack at a top inside mid from this draft which is supposed to be very strong.

In relation to the KPP's especially KPF i do agree with you whole heartedly in this manner and am still not happy that passed on Jack Darling. Which highlights another issue in regards to using our first pick on Mason Shaw. Looking at what happened to Jack Darling and also Shane Kersten in regard to sliding down the draft due to injuries i believe that this is something that will happen to Mason aswell due to his broken jaw. In a perfect world he slides to our compo pick that we activated or our second rounder.

In relation to using some of our current players to gain picks i do agree with you on this. I have commented in other threads that the Lions should look at this. Merret would have some currency i believe and could be good pick up for either a Hawthorn or Carlton using their first round pick or for GC or GWS with their second pick. Already understand that our KPP depth is terrible but as you stated by the time that the lions Mids are running at a strength he won't be around i believe.

I might be over-rating Rockliff + Redden. But I see them as being those 2 guys with Rich the very good 3rd man. Rockliff + Redden you have to remember are still younger (1990 born) whereas other elite mids are born (1987-88) in Pendlebury/Selwood/Murphy. But I do see them coming very close to that level and becoming seriously good midfielders if they aren't that already.

Personally I don't see Mason Shaw dropping, or at least I would be more surprised to see him drop. Darling and Kersten are a fair bit different in that they both dominated that year early then Darling didn't perform to the expected level then Kersten was mostly injured, but then did come back strongly but none the less in both cases there were upside concerns. Additionally Darling + Kersten are shorter key forwards while Shaw is allot taller at a near ruck height, so I see his situation being a little different.

With relation to those experienced KPPs such a Merrett. To be honest I wouldn't trade him. Reason being those experienced guys such as Brown and Merrett, you draft some kids now and they can learn off them. Trade them and they miss out on that education from some of the best in their position. That education can help make the kids the better.

Without a level of experience and leadership it makes it allot harder to develop young talent, and for that reason I see it being a long build for the likes of Gold Coast and GWS because they really lack that quality, experienced talent to teach the younger ones about how to go about things and maximise their talents. It's something that doesn't get spoken about much, but look at the effect the addition of Chris Judd has done for Carlton. Look at what Luke Ball did for Collingwood. That experience and leadership matters and helps those younger talents around them develop.

Knightmare,

Would you mind telling me who three of the most 'dependable' mids are in this draft (obviously of those worthy of a top 10-15 pick)?

Jack Viney for one. He is the first guy you think of when you say dependable. Same with Whitfield.

But looking in more the 10-15 range I like Troy Menzel allot. Very high level talent but at the same time has the production to go with the talent.

Rory Atkins I'd also have in that dependable category. His numbers aren't as high at this stage as you might like but I feel he is none the less a low risk type with the way he goes about it. Love his attack on the ball and decision making + ball use excellent. Once he builds that endurance he looks like he will be a real find.

 

[Knightmare]

Caddy had injuries last year, but is highly rated and just the type we need at MFC.

My solution for Melb would be to bring back Brock McLean.

I'd recommend the same for Richmond and any other team looking for that extra ball winning midfielder.

He won't break the bank because he hasn't played in 2 years.

Production at VFL level last year was 2nd only to Magner. He can still play and is just getting wasted at VFL level by Carlton. I don't buy into the arguement at all that he isn't up to the pace of AFL football. By belief is that he can still very much and play some very, very good football.

Add McLean + Viney and the midfield can get VERY good in a hurry.

 

[Membling]

Cheers for the effort Knightmare, grateful for the effort you've put in.

Only thing is for the Swans needs I can see us going high for a KPP or a silky skilled outside mid instead of pure mids. any thoughts as to the possibilities?

 

[Knightmare]

Cheers for the effort Knightmare, grateful for the effort you've put in.

Only thing is for the Swans needs I can see us going high for a KPP or a silky skilled outside mid instead of pure mids. any thoughts as to the possibilities?

As an outside type I like O'Rouke. Really efficient by hand and foot. But at the same time also a ball winner and has some really nice pace.

Josh Simpson would be another I'd look at as a highly skill mid. Very duel sided and a real natural talent.

As a KPP for Sydney one to look out for Kristian Jaksch. He has in the past played as a key forward but is playing as a key defender at the moment and looks very impressive.

 

[Millington Magic]

Hey, Knightmare, what do you think of Billy Rolfe? Midfielder/half back for the rays with a very strong body, been named in the best for the rays both weeks. From what I've seen the kid can really play.

 

[Enforcer25]

My solution for Melb would be to bring back Brock McLean.

I'd recommend the same for Richmond and any other team looking for that extra ball winning midfielder.

He won't break the bank because he hasn't played in 2 years.

Production at VFL level last year was 2nd only to Magner. He can still play and is just getting wasted at VFL level by Carlton. I don't buy into the arguement at all that he isn't up to the pace of AFL football. By belief is that he can still very much and play some very, very good football.

Add McLean + Viney and the midfield can get VERY good in a hurry.

You know what, the very same thought occurred to me today too.
But I wouldn't say VERY good, just better (that's more about McLean than Viney). Brock would only be a temporary stop-gap, but he would ease the transition.
For the same reason you condone keeping Merrett at the Lions, we need to keep some more senior players at the dees.
Half our problem has been starting the rebuild too late, so the older players to learn off just aren't up to it, and the standard that has been set in recent years is just far too low. We've unwittingly created a poorer culture than we already had.

Glad you said Menzel too, as he's the one I was thinking of.
Got my eye on him for the dees. Would be a best-fit type.

 

[Knightmare]

Hey, Knightmare, what do you think of Billy Rolfe? Midfielder/half back for the rays with a very strong body, been named in the best for the rays both weeks. From what I've seen the kid can really play.

Has been in the system for a while.

Certainly one of the better Stingrays this season. If he continues to produce he might be a chance mid-late draft. Just needs to keep developing and continue to show strong improvement.

 

[Knightmare]

You know what, the very same thought occurred to me today too.
But I wouldn't say VERY good, just better (that's more about McLean than Viney). Brock would only be a temporary stop-gap, but he would ease the transition.
For the same reason you condone keeping Merrett at the Lions, we need to keep some more senior players at the dees.
Half our problem has been starting the rebuild too late, so the older players to learn off just aren't up to it, and the standard that has been set in recent years is just far too low. We've unwittingly created a poorer culture than we already had.

Glad you said Menzel too, as he's the one I was thinking of.
Got my eye on him for the dees. Would be a best-fit type.

If you add McLean + Viney ball winning and extracting the ball will no longer be an issue considering you already also have Magner and Trengove.

Just add a few more receivers and a high level outside player and that midfield will be building into something competitive.

I agree with your views about the culture at the club. Letting guys like McDonald go among others I don't agree with at all. While it means you might draft one less kid by keeping someone like that, as far as I'm concerned you need to keep the vet because he will help further accelerate the growth of the younger players on the list. I consider it very important to have a strong core group of experienced leaders.

Collingwood have been fortunate to have players with the character and quality of Maxwell, Ball and Pendlebury. Geelong have had similar success with Harley, Ling and Selwood. Having quality leaders and people of this level is an important foundation and just as important as having a quality coach and coaching group or a talented young core group coming through.

For Melbourne McLean and even Viney later on could really add to this and help create the hard working, accountable culture Mark Neeld is looking for.

 

[Membling]

Cheers for the feed back

 

[WestCoastWizkid]

Power rankings:
------------------Potential A-Graders--------------------
1. Jaeger O’Meara (GC – 17 Y/O)
2. Lachie Whitfield
3. Jake Stringer
4. Jack Viney (Melb – F/S)
5. Joe Daniher (Ess – F/S)
6. Brad Crouch (Adel – 17 Y/O)
7. Mason Shaw
8. Jimmy Toumpas
9. Nick Vlastuin
10. Brodie Grundy
------------------Potentially high level AFL players--------------------
11. James Stewart (Coll – F/S)
12. Craig Moller (Freo – NSW/ACT)
13. Troy Menzel
14. Ben Kennedy
15. Liam Mcbean
16. Jonothon O’Rourke
17. Josh Simpson
18. Sam Mayes
19. Dayle Garlett
20. Rory Atkins
21. Oliver Wines
22. Matthew Haynes
23. Tanner Smith
24. Jed Anderson (GWS – likely NT Zone)
25. Aaron Luccon
26. Jason Pongracic
27. Adam Carter
28. Christopher Yarran
29. Myles Bolger
30. Lachie Hunter (WBD – F/S)
31. Anthony Bonaddio
32. Matthew McDonough
33. Emmanuel Irra
34. Corey Chalmers
35. Shannon Taylor

Hey Knightmare sensational reporting mate, keep up the good work.

I'm interested in the above crop of kids in particular the smalls seeing there is more and more being drafted due to their raw talent and not just height and athletic ability!! I dont know much about Emmanuel Irra, Corey Chalmers & Shannon Taylor as we dont see or hear much about them? I have also noticed you dont have the likes of Sam Heavyside, Nathan Hrovat, Nick Tuddenham, Josh Saunders, Darcy Bailey etc on your list? In your opinion are these boys draftable?

 

[HARKER]

My solution for Melb would be to bring back Brock McLean.

I'd recommend the same for Richmond and any other team looking for that extra ball winning midfielder.

He won't break the bank because he hasn't played in 2 years.

Add McLean + Viney and the midfield can get VERY good in a hurry.

Clever thinking Knightmare.
I'd be sorry to lose Brock, but would be selfish for not wanting him to further his career.

Would be a terrific addition to Melbourne, possibly in the way that Kennedy has been for Sydney.
Brock is also a terrific trainer and a leader on and off the ground.

 

[Turbocat]

McLean cost basically nothing and could just about resurrect his career if surround by Greyhounds. Is he really slower than Selwood? Thats what Melbourne needs someone who is willing to die form the possession.

What do we think it would cost? R4 pick? Just take his contract?

 

[Turbocat]

Hey ease up on Troy Menzel will you. I was hoping for a Menzel on each flank for the Cats

 

[Enforcer25]

Brock is amazingly slow, much slower than Selwood, and his footskills are overrated.
One thing he does do is read the play very well, and puts his body on the line.

If I were a Carlton fan, I wouldn't be too sorry to see him go. I'd just be frustrated that they got so little out of him, for pick 11.

And he'd be nothing like Kennedy at Sydney.
Maybe a bit more like Vandenberg at Hawthorn, but not as tough or as good a leader.
He'd be a sacrificial anode for 2 years, tops.

 

[Knightmare]

Hey Knightmare sensational reporting mate, keep up the good work.

I'm interested in the above crop of kids in particular the smalls seeing there is more and more being drafted due to their raw talent and not just height and athletic ability!! I dont know much about Emmanuel Irra, Corey Chalmers & Shannon Taylor as we dont see or hear much about them? I have also noticed you dont have the likes of Sam Heavyside, Nathan Hrovat, Nick Tuddenham, Josh Saunders, Darcy Bailey etc on your list? In your opinion are these boys draftable?

Chalmers is a high production midfielder. Has been good for a number of years dominating at u16s and also looking very good last year at u18 level. Has a similar game to Sydney's Luke Parker.

Irra is a really unique talent. Very quick and is excellent by foot. Still raw having not played football all his life but is one you notice right away with his play.

Taylor is close to if not the fastest in this years draft. Tested off the charts last year at the draft combine. Dangerous forward/mid. Plays allot like Collingwood's Kirk Ugle but Taylor is less short and even quicker again so he is a very exciting talent.

Of those you listed I'm not familiar with Josh Saunders. But the others certainly are all in the mix and all among those I'm watching out for.

Clever thinking Knightmare.
I'd be sorry to lose Brock, but would be selfish for not wanting him to further his career.

Would be a terrific addition to Melbourne, possibly in the way that Kennedy has been for Sydney.
Brock is also a terrific trainer and a leader on and off the ground.

Agree with your comments. Particularly about his work ethic + leadership.

I'd consider Brock to be something closer to Luke Ball who wrongly was tagged as being too slow and as someone who couldn't kick. Similar age + similar leadership credentials as well as style of play.

McLean cost basically nothing and could just about resurrect his career if surround by Greyhounds. Is he really slower than Selwood? Thats what Melbourne needs someone who is willing to die form the possession.

What do we think it would cost? R4 pick? Just take his contract?

I can't see Carlton getting any better than a Round 3 selection. 4th round is probably around what you'd expect.

Unsure of his contract status but if still contracted then I'd say Carlton would accept a nothing pick Melbourne don't intend to use.

Hey ease up on Troy Menzel will you. I was hoping for a Menzel on each flank for the Cats

Can't let Geelong win another draft. Those 2009 + 2010 drafts are enough of a talent injection to last you another 5 years.

It's not as common to see brothers play together as it used to be. Troy is a little different stylistically but at this stage looks every bit as talented Daniel. I can imagine Chris would love to have the pair.

Brock is amazingly slow, much slower than Selwood, and his footskills are overrated.
One thing he does do is read the play very well, and puts his body on the line.

If I were a Carlton fan, I wouldn't be too sorry to see him go. I'd just be frustrated that they got so little out of him, for pick 11.

And he'd be nothing like Kennedy at Sydney.
Maybe a bit more like Vandenberg at Hawthorn, but not as tough or as good a leader.
He'd be a sacrificial anode for 2 years, tops.

I'm not super worried about speed, you can be as slow as a lumpering ruckman and still make the grade as a midfielder if you can produce which McLean can. I respect the guy even more because he can produce to such a high level with such a limited game. Brett Kirk was the same and you have to respect guys like that who can extract every bit of talent from themselves.

I consider McLean to be a poor man's Luke Ball. Does many of the same things but not quite to the same level and without the price tag. Still provides leadership. Will win his own ball. Can play a role and play it to a high level. Suits the age demographic a Melbourne or similar developing team need.

 

[WestCoastWizkid]

Chalmers is a high production midfielder. Has been good for a number of years dominating at u16s and also looking very good last year at u18 level. Has a similar game to Sydney's Luke Parker.

Irra is a really unique talent. Very quick and is excellent by foot. Still raw having not played football all his life but is one you notice right away with his play.

Taylor is close to if not the fastest in this years draft. Tested off the charts last year at the draft combine. Dangerous forward/mid. Plays allot like Collingwood's Kirk Ugle but Taylor is less short and even quicker again so he is a very exciting talent.

Of those you listed I'm not familiar with Josh Saunders. But the others certainly are all in the mix and all among those I'm watching out for.

Thanks for your quality reply Knightmare.

On the TAC Cup website Vic metro are having a practise match at Vic Park at 11am, will you be there to provide some feedback??

 

[eth-dog]

Hey Knighter, Essendon seem to have a lack of highly skilled players running off HB; especially considering the coaches have moved two of our top 3 kicks out of defence into midfield (Heppell and Myers) as well as the third being 37 and unlikely to last more than the next 2 years, who would be the skilled players who could run off HB for Essendon in the future?

The other big deficiency seems to be a lack of depth in the big bodied midfield group, we've only really got the four (Watson, Hocking, Howlett and Lonergan) with a couple developing to play that role (Davis and Browne), who are the VFL types who we could recruit to increase that particular area?

Cheers mate

 

[Knightmare]

Hey Knighter, Essendon seem to have a lack of highly skilled players running off HB; especially considering the coaches have moved two of our top 3 kicks out of defence into midfield (Heppell and Myers) as well as the third being 37 and unlikely to last more than the next 2 years, who would be the skilled players who could run off HB for Essendon in the future?

The other big deficiency seems to be a lack of depth in the big bodied midfield group, we've only really got the four (Watson, Hocking, Howlett and Lonergan) with a couple developing to play that role (Davis and Browne), who are the VFL types who we could recruit to increase that particular area?

Cheers mate

Adam Carter at this stage looks like the better defender who can add to that half back line. One to look out for in the 2nd round if available.

Haven't had the opportunity to watch much VFL yet this year but as the season progresses will make the rounds and get a better idea of who is producing and who has shown improvement.

Of those at VFL level Tom Sundberg is one last year who was unlucky not to get drafted. Has the flexibility to play a number of positions whether that be midfield, back or forward but he can certainly take his turn on the ball and produce.

I'm sure HFF and a couple of other regular VFL viewers will be able to help you out with some more names of those likely to get looked at.

 

[David3030]

Mate, your phantom drafts are always a great read.

Given the Dogs have 2 first rounders (and assuming we won't have to use one on Hunter), I definitely think we will try to draft 2 polished users of the footy. Aside from Dahlhaus, we seem to lack a bit of pace through the midfield in our younger brigade, we are probably covered for inner mids, rucks and key possie players...

Just a quick one regarding the teams / pick numbers and the compensation picks that have been activated (I know you just put teams in there based on where you think they'll finish, but still, for accuracy)...

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=131093

• Melbourne have activated 2 compo picks
  - After their first round selection; and
  - In the middle of the first round of the draft (i.e. between eighth and ninth placed teams' first round selections)
• Western Bulldogs have activated 2 compo picks
  - After their first round selection
  - After their third round selection
• GWS have activated 1 compo pick
  - After Adelaide's first round selection
• Brisbane have activated 1 compo pick
  - At the completion of the first round.
• Richmond have activated 1 compo pick
  - At the completion of the second round (I think)...

Richmond's activated 2nd round compo pick is immediately after Port Adelaide's second round selection and not at the end of the second round.

 

[wceflyinghigh]

anyone get down to the vic metro trial game today at vic park? would love to hear a match report and comments on standout players?

 

[philthy05]

hey knightmare great read.

i see port needing midfielders as usual from this draft, in particular pure ballwinning mids with very good disposal by foot.

who are the guys with kicks like a mule?? and the really skilled kicks??

also who are the hardest running ( both ways ) ballwinning mids?

- primus has identified a lack of players who run hard both ways

- port doesnt really have a regular 25+ disposal ballwinner

- ports skills by foot are notably poor

so i hope we target these deficient areas in this draft.

 

[Knightmare]

hey knightmare great read.

i see port needing midfielders as usual from this draft, in particular pure ballwinning mids with very good disposal by foot.

who are the guys with kicks like a mule?? and the really skilled kicks??

also who are the hardest running ( both ways ) ballwinning mids?

- primus has identified a lack of players who run hard both ways

- port doesnt really have a regular 25+ disposal ballwinner

- ports skills by foot are notably poor

so i hope we target these deficient areas in this draft.

Nick Vlastuin is the one I really like for Port Adelaide.

Is that big time ball winner who wins his own footy but is also excellent by hand and foot.

The other one I would look at is Jimmy Toumpas who is the higher hurt factor, more athletic type.

I would favour Vlastuin with his ball winning ability. Lower risk guy who can come in and produce right away. Has a very sound game and is the better fit with your current midfield group. Is very capable of doing everything you are describing.

 

[philthy05]

watched toumpas last year in the sanfl, he is a star and i believe will be a star at afl level. just has speed, reads the game, great kick, makes time, looks composed, more outside but not so much so that its a problem. decent height. ild love him at port but i cant see how he wont be a top 3 pick.

i reckon it will be

gws
gc
melb + comp

any of bris/port/ dogs / richmond in some particular order

and north/ dons not too far away.

no way do i see toumpas getting to pick 5. of course we said the same thing last year about wingard but im still betting he doesnt.

yeah vlastuin is one that sounds promising and could be available.

port doesnt need another 15-20 possesion type mid ( unless he is judd like in what he does with it ) we need out and out 30 possie ballwinner who is a good kick ( no need really for a pure inside either we need outside run or inside/ outside ability ala jack trengove). we also need players who run and spread and are super kicks of the footy.

cant wait til champs just sounds like there is so much quality around.

one good thing is that ild expect

gws - go for best available really, would like stringers versatility.
gc- as above.

melb- 1 tall 1 small ( unless 2 smalls are so clearly ahead) so a grundy/ mcbean/ shaw with a viney/ toumpas etc.

brisbane- would love a tall no doubt unless one isnt really near worth it at this pick but ild expect there would be one.

dogs- key position definately a priority though could easily go with run and footskills if that is whats available around that mark.

rich- best available.

i think alot of guys who will have picks around where we will finish will look seriously at any talls who are around the mark of their pick ( not seriously reaching ) and i think there will be some talent there.

so while some very good midfielders will be taken in those picks before us i dont see us having to resort to say the 5th or 6th best mid in the draft with pick 7 but could get one of the top mids available. damn we need it too. funny thing though for alot of teams it will come out in several years time who got what when some of those picks in the mid 30's 40's come out. very important for port to nab some promising midfielders with 2nd and 3rd round this year.