Ghost/Paranormal Psychics: Ghost Whisperers or Cold Readers?

[rayven]

suprnatural is a different thing alltogther and so is paranormal, i'm talking about the origons of science and i suppose thats what your meaning about "investigation"?
Ae you prepared to investigate the origons of science?

Well the catholics do, well "exorcise"..i admit they always fail but they do try

 

[Old Skool]

I agree, it is theraputic and may be good in that sense, but it isn't real. That would be like tacking a placebo tablet thinking it's cured your illness when it fact it's accomplished nothing but perhaps a false sense of security.

Placebos have been shown to work. Don't underestimate the power of belief.

Dulsion whilst being preyed upon financially is not a good thing OS. The truth is always better.

An individual, exercising informed free choice, has the right to chose what to do with their time and money. You are heading down a dangerous path with that ideology.

 

[holy diver]

suprnatural is a different thing alltogther and so is paranormal, I'm talking about the origons of science and i suppose thats what your meaning about "investigation"?
Ae you prepared to investigate the origons of science?

Well the catholics do, well "exorcise"..i admit they always fail but they do try

You want to reverse this and question methodological naturalism?
Science has developed over millennia driven by curiosity from all parts of the globe. Some of the greatest scientist have been through the church, other renegades of the church's reach. I hardly see the relevance in regards to calling out cold readers and other psychic frauds.

Supernatural and paranormal are closely aligned by definition.
Paranormal = not scientifically explainable
Supernatural = relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil

Subtle difference but the terms are synonymous for meaning essentially the same thing.

So it's either the "dead" talking to 'psychics' or "demons" mimicking the dead to cause mayhem talking to 'psychic's' as tesseract offers.

..or it's all entirely false.

Placebos have been shown to work. Don't underestimate the power of belief.

They have, no doubt.

An individual, exercising informed free choice, has the right to chose what to do with their time and money. You are heading down a dangerous path with that ideology.

Slow down, I'm not coordinating an army of brown shirts to enforce a psychic crackdown.
You are railroading my intent. People have free choice to spend their money any way they wish. I'm just saying they should be aware (whether they decide to take it on board or not is up to them) that these psychics are fraudulent and dishonest. There is no proof that they are truly talking to the dead. I admit, I find watching Derek Acorah doing his thing entertaining. I view it as improv comedy.

 

[evo]

Derren Browns tricks using Neuro-linguistic programming are pretty cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhmKYeNgZEw

 

[rayven]

You want to reverse this and question methodological naturalism?
Science has developed over millennia driven by curiosity from all parts of the globe. Some of the greatest scientist have been through the church, other renegades of the church's reach. I hardly see the relevance in regards to calling out cold readers and other psychic frauds.

Supernatural and paranormal are closely aligned by definition.
Paranormal = not scientifically explainable
Supernatural = relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil

Subtle difference but the terms are synonymous for meaning essentially the same thing.

So it's either the "dead" talking to 'psychics' or "demons" mimicking the dead to cause mayhem talking to 'psychic's' as tesseract offers.

..or it's all entirely false.
.

It is not of my inkling to debate those in a narrow mind who chase the paranormal, nor is it my wish to chat about those who think life is merely 2 thousand years old...

Your either the former or emotionaly charged by the latter and unaware of this earths history...

As a poster put it people choose to spend thier money at 'psychic' fairs, they are not forced, of a more pressing concern is goveremnt grants to christian groups and the knowelage anyone who starts a thread about psychics without being a fool has on the legitmacy of the christian story...

 

[Docker Clint]

The naive and stupid exist to be fleeced of their money, it depends where your moral stance is to take advantage of this. It's obvious where the so called psychics stand.

 

[Pie eyed]

The naive and stupid exist to be fleeced of their money, it depends where your moral stance is to take advantage of this. It's obvious where the so called psychics stand.

I praise the naive and stupid as they keep the rest of us in Cointreau and Cuban's and I have absolutely no moral stance on the charlatans nor their prey.

Even if I held firm moral beliefs on such arseclownery and felt horribly for the brain cell challenged, financially dispossessed punters my sentiments in no way suggest the claims of the fraudsters have any standing in fact or reality.

 

[holy diver]

Well PE, there is no shortage of those who have no compunction fleecing a mark through cold readings.

http://elisabethspsychics.com.au/?gclid=CIPEpuynoq8CFcgopAodVTFVXA
"total accuracy guaranteed".

Do they offer money back if not satisfied?

 

[rayven]

So wayne are you aware of the CIA useing psychics succesfully?

 

[Pie eyed]

So wayne are you aware of the CIA useing psychics succesfully?

I knew you would write that.

 

[Pie eyed]

Well PE, there is no shortage of those who have no compunction fleecing a mark through cold readings.

http://elisabethspsychics.com.au/?gclid=CIPEpuynoq8CFcgopAodVTFVXA
"total accuracy guaranteed".

Do they offer money back if not satisfied?

The amazing thing about Elisabeth is she knew I was going to ask about "him".

Elisabeth, where is Bit Pattern?

 

[rayven]

I knew you would write that.

There was this russian chick in a tank fighting david hicks and the cia backed resistance to russian rule.

That tank quite often lobbed a shell into a apartment that only thought of targeting that tank, it was uncanny. they didn't respond to an attack, they hit the attack time and time again before it could hit them.

Trippy story, evidently the chick was into remote viewing, new what civilian buildings was military and what was not in urban warfare...

but they rekon people like this are rare, as rare as father bob....but not as rare as tony abbott.

 

[holy diver]

Military applications for cold reading...?

Maybe John Edwards can guide NATO to wipe out the entire Taliban command so we can wrap this thing up.

 

[JavaBlue]

There are examples of people with (for want of a better term) a "psychic" ability helping law enforcement agencies with valuable information.

In 2001, the body of Thomas Braun was located by Perth based Aboriginal clairvoyant Leanna Adams in Western Australia. Police had initially been unable to find the body. The family of Braun had been told to contact Adams, an Aboriginal psychic who lived in Perth. The Braun Family had requested police to do a search based on Adams’ directions but they had not assisted. Adams went to Alice Springs in the Northern Territory, and took the family members directly to Braun’s remains, a spot high on a ridge west of the town, some 20 kilometres out. The remains were not immediately identifiable. Police later confirmed the remains to be his using DNA testing.

But there do seem to be a few out there who have some sort of ability that allows them to provide information they would not have been privy too.

Another example of someone clutching at anything just because they want to believe. Do a search on any of the names in the above wiki quote and about all you'll find is this paragraph repeated over and over again in several websites. There is something extra on clairvoyant Leanna Adams but it's a about a another psychic prediction - one she got wrong. Otherwise absolutely nothing at all on her.

The wiki paragraph is referenced but all the references are dead ends. One is from an Alice newspaper headlined "DNA test proves body was Braun's". You'd think "Psychic finds missing man's body" would be more newsworthy. The only other mention I can find is a secondary source saying that a paranormal site said that the family of the missing man led Adams to the last place Braun was seen and that's where they found the body. Hardly psychic.

Another thing that stands out about people who believe these things is their poor writing skills. I remember the Randi "Carlos" sting at the Opera House a few decades ago. Randi had a pamphlet printed for distribution to the audience and he made sure it had plenty of spelling /grammar mistakes and missing pages just to make the pamphlet look more authentic. The above Wiki paragraph starts out by saying the body was found in Western Australia; later it's found in Alice. The first paragraph mentions "Perth based Aboriginal clairvoyant Leanna Adams", the second sentences says "Adams, an Aboriginal psychic who lived in Perth." This must be important information.

The person posting this is the one who should have done a bit of background search but he's so eager to bolster his beliefs, he'll swallow any rubbish.

 

[JavaBlue]

There was this russian chick in a tank fighting david hicks and the cia backed resistance to russian rule.

That tank quite often lobbed a shell into a apartment that only thought of targeting that tank, it was uncanny. they didn't respond to an attack, they hit the attack time and time again before it could hit them.

Trippy story, evidently the chick was into remote viewing, new what civilian buildings was military and what was not in urban warfare...

but they rekon people like this are rare, as rare as father bob....but not as rare as tony abbott.

See what I mean...

 

[rayven]

Military applications for cold reading...?

look up a project called 'enola wish' if thats to hard then the subsequent expansion from that operation 'grill flame'...

you'll look like a fool if when you do....

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

I don't fall for Nigerian Inheritance schemes or Microsoft call centre virus warning schemes, so I would say I'm not an absolute sucker, but I'm also open minded about possible explanations for how our existence functions.

Having a very close friend who was quite into those sort of things, and being interested in it myself, I went to a psychic. I went there with a touch of scepticism (and to be honest specifically made sure I didn't give away any information he could use to hoodwink me, as I don't like being ripped off, but after walking out, and many years later, I would say the experience ever so slightly edged me into the believing side of the fence.

While plenty of the stuff the guy touched on could be explained with cold reading or just generally playing the odds (i.e dead male grandparent on either side of the family you'd probably be batting at a 100 strike rate, et etc), and it appeared he wasn't correct on some things, there were other "hits" that I feel were a little more than luck.

At one point during the session, the guy comes out in a pretty clear cut fassion and hit a couple of things square on the head, one of those being my search for a car. Pretty much said "You're looking for a car, but not in the usual manner through car dealers, you're looking for it on the internet, and you have already found it, you just don't know it". Didn't have any dead giveaways like empty set of car keys sitting on the table, or Autotrader or any s**t like that, and the last thing someone would say about me based on appearance is I look like some sort of person with cars on their mind.

Turns out a month or so later, the exact car I was heavily looking at at the time (but had ruled out because of price and given up on), dropped into my price range. I'd found it on a nationwide online forum, and turned out the owner was a friend of a friend of my uncle, who was helping me look for the type I wanted.

A second thing which was interesting is he said "You will be living overseas in the next 18 months-2 years with a partner you will meet through working in comunications. Probably 2 years later I was living overseas with a girl I'd met through spending a few weeks learning Communication Technology during my Uni semester break. Also said the relationship would struggle with trust and honesty, but I wouldn't give him credit for that because of the possibility he picked up on me being very unrevealing to him, and extrapolated.

There was some other stuff, some of which I feel is less bang on, and can be put down to good guesswork, but those two things for me are a little to accurate to be put down to playing the odds etc.

Sure it could all be a coincidence, and that what he said turned out to be based probabilities and such, but for me It's just too specific to be a fluke or guesswork.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

I also don't think that if these sort of things are possible, that the psychics would be on the money every time. Just because one might get a hit one time, doesn't mean it will happen the next time, and vice versa.

The problem with the scientific method and testing psychics is repeatability. It's a shame psychics are human beings, and not robots.

 

[holy diver]

look up a project called 'enola wish' if thats to hard then the subsequent expansion from that operation 'grill flame'...

you'll look like a fool if when you do....

I'm not spending the money on these programs so I'm hardly the fool. Just because governments/private enterprise put up money to explore the potential doesn't make it any more real.

The unexplained is an appealing realm for one to become immersed. To be honest part of me wishes it was true... but this stuff doesn't hold up to cool, clear rational sceptical examination. It doesn't hold up to methodological naturalism. It doesn't hold up to million dollar psychic challenges. It's very unlikely that it's real. The whole thing is like a modern day pop singer using auto-tune. Take away the slight of hand you are left with a talentless hack.

 

[skilts]

The Tasmanian Psychics find it necessary to conduct annual conferences. They also think it necessary to advertise the conference's date and venue in 'The Hobart Mercury' every year. Why?

 

[evo]

^ I guess it would explain why they live in Tasmania, though. Houses are cheap and if they feel a little bored they can remote view themselves sitting in a Greenwich Village cafe, and if they feel at little chilly, a Tahitian beach is just a quick astral travel away.

 

[Pie eyed]

I'm still waiting for one of them, any one of them to contact me to claim the $1,000 cash I have been "psychically broadcasting" for the last fortnight.


Everyone should try it.

Even if you can only afford $20.
Offer it, psychically, and see if a single person contacts you to ask or their reward.


Now to simply get a list of all members email addresses and send every one a message of claim.......heh ehhhe hhheheh ehhe hhe.......

 

[holy diver]

I'm still waiting for one of them, any one of them to contact me to claim the $1,000 cash I have been "psychically broadcasting" for the last fortnight.


Everyone should try it.

Even if you can only afford $20.
Offer it, psychically, and see if a single person contacts you to ask or their reward.


Now to simply get a list of all members email addresses and send every one a message of claim.......heh ehhhe hhheheh ehhe hhe.......

Too right. I knew you would say that. Show me the money.






What about 'Ghost' investigation TV entertainment. Ghost Hunters, Ghost Adventures, Ghost Lab, Most Haunted, Derek Acorah Haunted Towns, Dead Famous, Living With The Dead, Parnanormal State... It's endless. These shows ( some which use psychics ) like to peddle psuedo -science and argue from presuppostions that already assume ghosts,spooks and spectres exist. Whilst most of this is entertainment based and can be fun it still adds to 'lore' that anything supernatural is real. What do you guys think?

 

[Pie eyed]

Goddamn it Chief won't hand over all the member info..........

I'll have to guess.

David, David Smith.
You come from a loving family.
I see a male authority figure, a man,possibly your father.
He wants you to PM me for my bank details and send cash.
He says it may open up a whole new world of opportunities.

Peter, Peter Jones...your Dad too.
PM for payment instructions.

Jane, Jane Brown.
You're older sister or brother needs assistance with a new venture.
PMing me cash would facilitate a smoother transition for them.

And Johnny, just Johnny, that's all I'm getting....your old dog Rex who passed some time ago.
He needs a new chew toy in doggy heaven.

PM for instructions.


ps.
Taurus....I see a short, violent altercation with a short man in a cape.