Who owns the mess at Brisbane?

[The Captain]

Let's take a detailed analysis of Brisbane in recent years and in particular its lack of onfield success and drafting:

Many of the current issues relate back to 2009.

Brisbane released the following:

Bradd Dalziell
Pick 28 (Mitch Duncan)
Pick 44 (Matthew Dea)
Pick 39 (Sam Grimley)
Pick 60 (Jesse W Smith)
Lachie Henderson
Pick 12 (Kane Lucas)
Daniel Bradshaw
Joel Macdonald
Scott Harding

In return they got (including drafting):

Andrew Raines
Brent Staker
Aamon Buchanen
Pick 47 (Ryan Harwood)
Xavier Clarke
Brendan Fevola
Pick 27 (Callum Bartlett)
Mitchell Golby
Josh Dyson

Henderson, Duncan and Lucas are now all regular players in top 4 sides. Not one player drafted in 2009 could be regarded as an equivalent based on current form

But what about 2008's draft, the year before Voss?

Brisbane released the following:

Pick 93 (passed on in the draft and used to promote Scott Clouston from a rookie)

In return they got (including drafting):

Anthony Corrie
Daniel Rich
Todd Banfield
Aaron Cornelius
Bart McCulloch
Kieran King
Tom Rockliff
Daniel Murray

Instead of massive trading, they drafted what could be viewed as one A grader is Rockliff and a B+ in Rich. Banfield and Cornelius are the others that still play but are not anything special

However, most clubs would love to be able to get 4 players puching for starting positions out of every draft

There is some potential out of the 2010 draft, but again, noone in there that is a walk up start for the senior 22. They also lost Justin Sherman and Jarrod Brennan who were both in the starting line up

So who holds the can for the 2009 blunders?

The Board, the coach, the match committee, the recruiting staff ??????

 

[DrummoSolo]

Of course it's a Carlton fan starting this. That chip on the shoulder just won't go away, will it?

If you want to look at our problems, I'd start with our drafting from about 2002 to 2007 before delving into yet ANOTHER discussion on 2009's drafting.

 

[The Captain]

I also looked at 2008 and 2010

Why so defensive?

If you stuff up 3 years of drafting in a row, who holds the can at a club. Brisbane is just an example. I could also look at Melbourne

The results for both teams are showing and will take 5 - 7 years to climb out of (look at Carlton!)

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

Let's take a detailed analysis of Brisbane in recent years and in particular its lack of onfield success and drafting:
....snip....

But what about 2008's draft, the year before Voss?

Brisbane released the following:

Pick 93 (passed on in the draft and used to promote Scott Clouston from a rookie)

In return they got (including drafting):

Anthony Corrie
Daniel Rich
Todd Banfield
Aaron Cornelius
Bart McCulloch
Kieran King
Tom Rockliff
Daniel Murray

Instead of massive trading, they drafted what could be viewed as one A grader is Rockliff and a B+ in Rich. Banfield and Cornelius are the others that still play but are not anything special

However, most clubs would love to be able to get 4 players puching for starting positions out of every draft

There is some potential out of the 2010 draft, but again, noone in there that is a walk up start for the senior 22. They also lost Justin Sherman and Jarrod Brennan who were both in the starting line up

So who holds the can for the 2009 blunders?

The Board, the coach, the match committee, the recruiting staff ??????

You do know that Voss was in charge for the 2008 trading and drafting period right?

Voss took a calculated gamble at the end of 2009 that didn't pay off. I personally think he has balls to put everything on the line to try and steal a premiership before some of the older champs left the game.

 

[Barnzy]

Let's take a detailed analysis of Brisbane in recent years and in particular its lack of onfield success and drafting:

Yeah, because this topic hasn't been done to death before, right?

 

[DrummoSolo]

I also looked at 2008 and 2010

Why so defensive?

If you stuff up 3 years of drafting in a row, who holds the can at a club. Brisbane is just an example. I could also look at Melbourne

The results for both teams are showing and will take 5 - 7 years to climb out of (look at Carlton!)

Because this has been done to death on the main board and most Brisbane fans are pretty tired of it.

If you break down 2009's trades piece by piece, the only one that was a real shocker was the Fev one. The rest are either low enough down the draft order that the gamble was worth it (Clarke for 60, Buchanan for a swap of picks), or came off quite well (Maguire for a 90s pick, Staker for Dalziell).

Nothing wrong with 2008's draft, and it's well and truly too early to make a call on 2010, given that crop is only in their second year.

Again, if you want to see the true downfall of Brisbane, go take a look at 2002-2007's drafting. End result - a huge death of talent in the 23-27 category, meaning everything is put on the old guns and the young kids, resulting in our on-field state. Plain and simple!

 

[IanW]

Voss owns it. He took the gamble, it didnt work, and now they need to rebuild.

 

[Jentleman Geff]

Actually, the big hole is the drafting between 2001-2007. Not much talent taken there.

 

[BrisbaneLion9636]

Why is this thread even here? It's been done before.
Mods please close thread.

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

..every club at some point in time will have a patch of exceedingly poor trade/recruit decisions.. ..they'll also have a good patch as well.. ..this can be done for most teams.. ..the crazy Vossy one fell over poorly because the high risky gamble was made around a player that was at times individually brilliant, but was always a high chance to come undone..

..however for brissie it was more what they afforded vossy initially that was perhaps the mistake, which has been fixed up now.. ..vossy is most likely not a brainiac coaching genius, but the brions as poor as they currently are now still play with heart, and many shite teams tend to also lack heart.. ..vossy could do with a bit more help still in regards to coaching panel.. ..but this is something that others club have done before at some point in time..

 

[chunkylover53]

Let's take a detailed analysis of Brisbane in recent years and in particular its lack of onfield success and drafting:

Many of the current issues relate back to 2009.

Brisbane released the following:

Bradd Dalziell
Pick 28 (Mitch Duncan)
Pick 44 (Matthew Dea)
Pick 39 (Sam Grimley)
Pick 60 (Jesse W Smith)
Lachie Henderson
Pick 12 (Kane Lucas)
Daniel Bradshaw
Joel Macdonald
Scott Harding

In return they got (including drafting):

Andrew Raines
Brent Staker
Aamon Buchanen
Pick 47 (Ryan Harwood)
Xavier Clarke
Brendan Fevola
Pick 27 (Callum Bartlett)
Mitchell Golby
Josh Dyson

Henderson, Duncan and Lucas are now all regular players in top 4 sides. Not one player drafted in 2009 could be regarded as an equivalent based on current form

But what about 2008's draft, the year before Voss?

Brisbane released the following:

Pick 93 (passed on in the draft and used to promote Scott Clouston from a rookie)

In return they got (including drafting):

Anthony Corrie
Daniel Rich
Todd Banfield
Aaron Cornelius
Bart McCulloch
Kieran King
Tom Rockliff
Daniel Murray

Instead of massive trading, they drafted what could be viewed as one A grader is Rockliff and a B+ in Rich. Banfield and Cornelius are the others that still play but are not anything special

However, most clubs would love to be able to get 4 players puching for starting positions out of every draft

There is some potential out of the 2010 draft, but again, noone in there that is a walk up start for the senior 22. They also lost Justin Sherman and Jarrod Brennan who were both in the starting line up

So who holds the can for the 2009 blunders?

The Board, the coach, the match committee, the recruiting staff ??????

Voss was incredibly stupid. To come in and think these players would help still baffles me. If they were any good whatsoever, and would help a club win a premiership, their original clubs would have never let them go (including Fevola, Carlton was desperate to have him gone), especially for next to nothing in return.

 

[Skids]

I tend to think sustained success leads to sustained issues. Though Sydney seem to be good at rejuvenating lists without high draft picks. Essendon didn't draft well in the early to mid 00's and paid the price.
Maybe in a year or 3 the Lions will have a group players who have played 50-150 games, have a bit of ability and get up the ladder.

 

[Underdog]

Voss was incredibly stupid. To come in and think these players would help still baffles me. If they were any good whatsoever, and would help a club win a premiership, their original clubs would have never let them go (including Fevola, Carlton was desperate to have him gone), especially for next to nothing in return.

Staker has been pretty good for them...

 

[Skids]

If someone asked a St Kilda or Bulldogs would they accept 3 straight flags, to be followed by a decade of declining performance, Do you think they'd knock it back?

 

[Mr Ripper]

In return they got (including drafting):

Anthony Corrie
Daniel Rich
Todd Banfield
Aaron Cornelius
Bart McCulloch
Kieran King
Tom Rockliff
Daniel Murray

Yeah, I have difficulty telling the difference between Anthony Corrie and Jack Redden too.

 

[laminex]

Let's take a detailed analysis of Brisbane in recent years and in particular its lack of onfield success and drafting:

You know what blah blah blah really, Voss took a shot and did not work out, but atleast he took the shot. We all stuff up and sometimes it costs us big. I think it will end up costing him hid job and he will be the first to stand up and say he will die by the sword. If nothing else he is a leader.

 

[The Captain]

..but why does voss take all the blame. Surely he wasnt the sole decision maker?

Does his onfield coaching save his arse?

 

[aussierulesrules]

Voss took a calculated gamble at the end of 2009 that didn't pay off. I personally think he has balls to put everything on the line to try and steal a premiership before some of the older champs left the game.

Exactly what I reckon.

They had finished something like 6th the year before and four rounds into the following season (after they'd made all those trades in the off-season) they were undefeated, so most would have thought it was at worst a perfectly understandable move and at best a masterstroke. But then the injuries hit. And they hit hard and wiped them out. Then Fev went off the rails and it all turned to shit.

If they dadn't been hit so hard by the injuries and had Fev stayed on the rails (a big "if" I realise, but I think very few realised how deep he was in personal trouble) there is every chance they would have been able to go deep into September that year and these discussions may never have occurred.

About the only differences between what Ross Lyon did (bringing in "rejects" and not playing the "kids" much, over a 3 year period) and what Vossy did, was that Lyon didn't lose half his team to injury, Voss did. Had it been the other way around, it could have been Brisbane playing in a GF and us dropping way down the ladder.

Having said all that, some of those that Brisbane brought in were injury prone (like Xavier Clarke, Matt MaGuire, etc), so that was a high-risk gamble (even though they got those two pretty cheaply, due to their injury concerns).

 

[MarkT2]

As some have said, Voss took a ount and tried to win a flag. I don't have any problem with that in itself. However the punt backfired incredibly badly and it was not just bad luck.

Apart from the clear risk with Fevola there was some very poor management involved in his salary and the flow impacts of that. If it was just a punt on Fev that didn't pay off and a few players in and out that in the end were not the real determinant of success or failure then it would be acceptable but to lose additional players due to salary cap issues that should have been well known in advance is not acceptable. All in all the list management has been disasterous.

 

[Rioli magic]

If I read that correctly, despite a massive gamble backfiring badly and costing them, they still managed to draft Rockliff, Redden, Rich, Polec, a tagger in Raines and have since added Longer and Docherty and already have Luenberger. That's a pretty good young midfield IMO. Yeo and Bartlett were both rated before the draft, hopefully one (or both) of them can step up and they're on the way back.

 

[Kaiser Powser]

Crazy Vossy.

Is that what you wanted to hear OP?

Talk about yesterday's news.

 

[Pie eyed]

The board.
They make the appointments.

 

[The Captain]

Crazy Vossy.

Is that what you wanted to hear OP?

Talk about yesterday's news.

No

Just wanted some sensible chat

 

[Righteo]

No

Just wanted some sensible chat

I'm sure you didn't actually expect or intend for that to happen considering your profile is splashed with "Master troll" and "Bay 13" etc, not doing yourself any favours if you legitimately want a serious discusison on the main board.

 

[Toffee Lion]

Our main issue is the horrible drafting period between 2001 and 2007.

Out of 29 drafted players only 8 are on the list and only 4 in the best 22.

We're the second youngest side in the AFL and are playing a shit load of kids.

These are the team's we've played:

Melbourne (18th): Win

Carlton (1st after tonight): Lose

Fremantle (6th): Lose

Gold Coast (17th): Win

Geelong (9th): Lose

Essendon (2nd): Lose

Collingwood: (7th) Lose

Every team goes through bad times and we're no different.

We're not going to beat top 8 sides but we should beat sides below us.

The main issue is our poor skills and lack of fitness which hopefully will improve with more game time into the kids.