Rd 8 - Coll vs Geel (GF rematch) - Postmatch discussion

[doppleganger]

The rule needs to be changed so that if you use the sub for tactical reasons, then you suffer a injury the substituted player can come back on for an injured player.

A similar thing happened to the Saints, with Wilkes.

'Tactically' it was his time to come off, so papers were put in...unfortunately he just goes and kicks a couple of goals and was in good form...but papers already signed and he has to come off.

Tactically, Watters and Buckley fecked up.

It is a substitute rule, you are taking them out of the game...stiff sh1t if a coach has tried to use it tactically and then it blows up in their face 5 minutes later.

People need to stop thinking of the sub as the player who comes on for the last quarter to give some extra run...to the back-up player who is an 'in game emergency' there in case their is an injury.

 

[jathanas]

Your kidding me . Heater below his best? Sure he made a couple of mistakes but thats Heater, he is a high risk player so makes mistakes. He was terrific last night and on so many occassions when they looked like scoring he was in the right place at the right time. I had him just behind Pendles and Sidebottom in our top 3.

I love Heater but his disposal yesterday was way below his usual standard. I agree that he reads the play very very well.

 

[jonbe54]

On the question of Heater's form this year.

I have a sneaking feeling that he is embarrassed by his brain fade betting fiasco costing us so heavily last year and is trying too hard to make amends.

 

[Mobbsy]

watching replay now. Swan just gone off, 16 mins in last to go.
78-54

Cloke could so easily had us at 90-54 then the blowout was on.

We actually played pretty good footy, and a credit to hang on with 1 on bench, no Reid, Swan, Dids, and with Pendles sore.

To hold off the barnstorming Cats was awe inspiring.

Gutsy win Pies.

 

[tonkapies]

Really stoked to get the win. I felt that if we let that one slip, it would be the psychological equivalent to a kick in the jewels. They came hard, we held out well and we got the 4 points.. so im happy

Sidey and Beams were both great tonight, but Steele in particular i thought was really really good. Has been playing well all season.

I know a win can gloss over some of the errors and deficiencies, but my word was Harry bad tonight. Defensively he has been shocking all season imo. i have no idea whats going on with him, whether hes been asked to play a different role or anything like that.. but hes got to be accountable for his man. At least 3 goals against him tonight that i counted and his influence, for me, was minimal if at all.

Probably the worst umpired game id seen in a while too.

Losing Reid and Swan sucks the big one. on the other side, the crows will miss walker (with lynch to be the likely inclusion) and Keefe will be a good match for Tippet. If Taz has a good comeback tomorrow, do we consider bringing him in?

Nothing beats the bulldog game. Cloke constantly gets mauled and arm chopped. If the umpires were serious clokes shots at goal would mirror Franklin numbers. What shits me is when in a contested situation generally the harder determined players make the play force what should be incorrect disposal or no attempt, what happens the ball falls free, luckily comes to outside ball watching players, bang, balls gone down the other end. This happened in last years GF and is what I believe cost the game for the pies, Crap umpiring whoever says just let the play go , or put the whilstle away, has no idea of the ramifications of poorly umpired games.

 

[Gavin Excell]

I thought the game was a great tussle and while we lost thought it showed we were back on track to some sort of form.

But then heard talkback, got a few txt messages from non pies/cats fans who suggested game was a scrappy, error riddled affair beffitting two teams not in the top bracket.

Agree there were some mistakes but I had put that down to pressure

Thoughts?

 

[jonbe54]

I thought the game was a great tussle and while we lost thought it showed we were back on track to some sort of form.

But then heard talkback, got a few txt messages from non pies/cats fans who suggested game was a scrappy, error riddled affair beffitting two teams not in the top bracket.

Agree there were some mistakes but I had put that down to pressure

Thoughts?

Wasn't a highly skilled game, just two toughs headbutting each other for 4 quarters. Your boys were brave but with Reid and Swan out for much of the last quarter and Pendles carrying a corked calf we were braver.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

On the question of Heater's form this year.

I have a sneaking feeling that he is embarrassed by his brain fade betting fiasco costing us so heavily last year and is trying too hard to make amends.

His disposal by foot and hand was terrible in the first quarter and more, resulting twice in goals to Geelong.

 

[Bay Pie]

I thought the game was a great tussle and while we lost thought it showed we were back on track to some sort of form.

But then heard talkback, got a few txt messages from non pies/cats fans who suggested game was a scrappy, error riddled affair beffitting two teams not in the top bracket.

Agree there were some mistakes but I had put that down to pressure

Thoughts?

I must admit, I cannot recall seeing Geelong turn the ball over on so many occasions, especially since 2007. There was lots of pressure on and many players from both teams who haven't played 10 games.

Pies had 20 clangers (I think a club record) and Geelong had 16 (possibly also club record).

There was alot on the line in this game and for non Pies/Cats supporters thinking that the same turnovers may occur when they play us, well they better bring 'game'.

 

[Zahki]

Very happy with this win. More than anything it'll give the side confidence, and that can change seasons. It puts Geelong down in the gutter where they'll have to work very hard to make it back into the top 4 and gives us a big boost over a rival. The injuries are annoying, all we can do is hope that we'll have our full list ready and raring to go at the end of the season, and that we can keep winning the the meantime while we cover for them.

 

[jonbe54]

His disposal by foot and hand was terrible in the first quarter and more, resulting twice in goals to Geelong.

Agreed MMD that's why I think his head isn't in the right place.

 

[HFF]

The good:

Ben Reid exorcised his demons. Enormous game from him. Beat Hawkins in all pivotal contests and that tackle in the goal square was unbelievable considering the degree of difficulty. Reminded me of Benny Johnson 2002 iirc on Peter Burgoyne.

Scott Pendlebury- class is always permanent and he delivered when we needed it most.

Steele Sidebottom- career high disposals and just a running machine. Is becoming an elite footballer.

Alex Fasolo- best game he has played in black + white. Needed a big game against good opposition and delivered.

Dayne Beams- rising like Steele. Great improvement shown, particularly in a big game.


The Bad:

Heath Shaw- I wanted to kill him all night. Couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat. Was woeful. Cost us far too many cheap goals. Heater would have given it to his teammates if they were making stupid mistakes like he was all night. Hopefully the boys and coaching staff return serve on him because he deserves a bake.

Lachy Keeffe- Ordinary game. Made stupid decisions by foot. Has been good all season but very bad on the night.

Free kicks- the lack of free kicks Cloke receives, compared to the ones that are given against him is a joke. It's becoming a weekly thing at the moment. Need to get some clarity on this because there's no way there can be such a negative gulf between the two. You can just feel the supporters ready to explode on the umps at any moment.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

I thought Buckley as the sub was the wrong choice. Dont get me wrong I like Buckley as a player (generally) but he is one of those players who takes a while to get going. He also should have been playing on when he got the ball and trying to run the exhausted Geelong players off their feet. When he marked the ball a few times he just sat there. He could have played on.

For me Seedsman is the perfect sub and we should play him in the position every week. He lacks physical size so the perfect time for him is to come on late when the hits are not as hard. He has speed and always plays on. In the last quarter he could come on and tear a hole in most team's tired defence.

Shaw was a mix of good and bad tonight but the good far out weighed the bad.

OBrien in the first half had trouble reading the ball in flight and his opponents marked the ball too easily. His disposal was also poor in the first half. He reads the game off the ground a lot better.

Keefe was good and bad. His disposal let him down a couple of times. but he beat his opponent (mostly pods) 1v1 on most occasions. Overall the good was much better then the bad.

Sinclair in my opinion wasn't in the game much. Maybe I missed what he did.

Next week against Adelaide do we need 2 KPB's or can we get away with one with Walker out? We have a 8 day break compared to Adelaide who have a 6 day break. Maybe we can run them off their feet with more midfielders.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

On Sinclair, I am surprised this morning to see he got 16 disposals because he seemed to have much less possession of the ball. Too small and back to his inaccurate kicking at goal tricks. Against strong bodied teams I think he will struggle.

 

[entourage]

Shaw has always been erratic, he had some shocking disposal in the first but thereafter was pretty good I thought.
As for the cats supporter asking about whether pressure was the cause of the apparent scrappiness, yes. People are becoming annoying with what constitutes a good game of footy, skill errors don't automatically make it a bad game to watch.

Anyway, amazed at people whining about the 'soft 50' fact is it was there, and Geelong got a 'soft 50' no more than 15 minutes prior. Just because it was close that doesn't mean the umpires have a duty to put the whistle away. This is what shits me with AFL supporters, you need to decide what you want. Usually, I just want consistency in decisions and for calls to be made if they are there, not because the frees need evening up or not to not call it because it changes the game. If it is there CALL IT.

Was it consistent with previous 50m decisions in the match? Yes, was it there, 'technically' or otherwise? Yes. So it's a free kick/50m penalty. People need to grow up. It was the right call.

 

[jonbe54]

On Sinclair, I am surprised this morning to see he got 16 disposals because he seemed to have much less possession of the ball. Too small and back to his inaccurate kicking at goal tricks. Against strong bodied teams I think he will struggle.

MMD the kid does a lot of hard work so the 16 possies doesn't surprise me, he isn't the flashy sort like Fas so can go unnoticed easily. As for getting knocked about by strong bodied teams, as a young small forward no surprises there but at least he puts his body on the line, unlike another small forward we have. . . .

 

[ipswichpies]

As bad as Heath was at times with his disposal our biggest liability down back is Harry he is extremely fortunate we have had so many injuries because the spotlight would be on him and it would not look good.

Every week without fail he is costing multiple goals he was good in 2010 but last year was bad and this year looks even worse,I said a few weeks ago that if we had not been having fresh injuries all the time I would have sent him back to VFL and really looking at him and his form he should go back straight away.

Every week without fail he either gets beaten 1 on 1 or he gives up a free kick he is in the worse form of anybody he has played every game and he is not improving Buckley may be bad 1 on 1 but so is Harry and it is costing big time.

 

[Swooop]

Yep the 50 was there, think most people acknowledge that.

But the thing with umpiring that drives people crazy is the lack of consistency.

Forget last week, where I think one umpire was trying for whatever reason to engineer a result. That happily is the exception.

Because the AFL want a flowing game, they want less frees.

Just pay the obvious ones.

But the players are continually adjusting and looking for as much advantage as they can get.

eg if any FB doesn't lock arms and scrag their FF, they'll be hugely disadvantaged to what every other FB is doing. Glass and Rutten are masters. Reid is learning.
Fullbacks are like clinging vines these days - and get away with it 95% of the time.

If umpires wanted to, they could pay 150 frees per game.

But they pay 30.

So 120 are left go, then they'll pick one to pay.

Drives spectators crazy and especially if some feel it influenced the outcome of the game, like Fasolo's may have.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

A similar thing happened to the Saints, with Wilkes.

'Tactically' it was his time to come off, so papers were put in...unfortunately he just goes and kicks a couple of goals and was in good form...but papers already signed and he has to come off.

Tactically, Watters and Buckley fecked up.

It is a substitute rule, you are taking them out of the game...stiff sh1t if a coach has tried to use it tactically and then it blows up in their face 5 minutes later.

People need to stop thinking of the sub as the player who comes on for the last quarter to give some extra run...to the back-up player who is an 'in game emergency' there in case their is an injury.

Didak was shit, it wouldnt have made much difference. Teams can surely cope with zero rotations for half an hour.

 

[Maggie5]

I was so tightly wound watching the last quarter didn't even realise we only had one on the bench, no real rotations possible, very gutsty win by the boys.
Things that stood out for me:
Kudos to Pendlebury and to think that we have him for another 5 years.
Ticks also to Maxwell, I though he worked hard, Reid's timing to punch the ball at the right moment, pure class. Will really be missed.
Positives - the ball in Didak's hands - magic, slick delivery to the forward line and worked well with Wellingham. Daisy can only get better first game back after an interrupted season. Shaw, would forgive his mistakes as works really hard front and back. Goldsack seems comfortable knowing that if anyone is going to be dropped it won't be him. Seems to have found a niche in this team.
Amazing how many times this year Sidebottom and Beams kick or handball to each other this year. Sinclair is getting better and the players around him seem to trust him.
Thought Dawes held his own and is starting to fit into the new role quite well.
Concerns - Jolly, doesn't seem able to jump, didn't go back to help the backline much (although he was there in last quarter), whether it is fitness, injuries, or passed it - don't know.

Interesting to hear from a friend who watched at home, Buckley's last words as the were coming onto the ground. "Share the load".

 

[HFF]

Didak was shit, it wouldnt have made much difference. Teams can surely cope with zero rotations for half an hour.

Apart from the fact that he looked like the only player capable of hitting a target going forward.

His ball use was still very good.

 

[carnthepies19]

Really proud of how the boys kept going in the fourth. Pendles' said the boys were trying to get off on the fourth but kept getting sent back on. It was really tough. He also noted that in a quick midfield meeting it felt as though they were playing waiting for Geelong to catch up. They needed to win the game, which they did. No surprise he kicked the winning goal. Also said that Steele always has that little bit left to give. He's a freak.

Injuries will hurt us. Swan is only a minor hamstring but we need him fit for the right part of the year. Reid - I don't know. I've got some cotton wool if the club want to wrap him in it. Injuries are killing me though. We get one back and we lose one. Frustrating as all hell.

I was sitting right next to the bench, the boys continually got turned away from the bench, and you could see they were wasted. I was surprised we got those two goals, because seeing how much they wante to get off and then they had to continue on it didn't seem possible.

That win was probably one of the best I've seen. A very very gutsy one.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Apart from the fact that he looked like the only player capable of hitting a target going forward.

His ball use was still very good.

He didnt get enough of the ball. It was the right thing to sub him off after his poor third quarter. He will improve with match fitness but at his stage of his career we will see him subbed off (or on) regularly.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

The good

Sidebottom was bog by a mile and stil running hard at the end

Dawes played his best game for the season

Jolly had some spring in his legs

Reid was outstanding

Pendles was Pendles



The bad

Dale Thomas was horrible (first game back admittedly but did some stupid things)

Shaw and Keeffe made some mistakes

Didak tired badly

Clarke was quiet

 

[Scodog10]

Crunch time on SEN.

Mark Robinson: Do you have Joel Selwood in your supercoach team?

Pendles: Yeah I do

Mark Robinson: Was he your supercoach captain this week?

Pendles: Nah it's Jobe Watson this week. I never make a direct opponent captain.

Robinson: Well you missed out on 280 points

Pendles: Meh.

That was the last few sentences on a public radio station. Robinson you're a flog of the highest order!!!