"Voss to assess Brisbane list"

[whatboutbob]

Massive disclaimer: this is a sportnsewsfirst/Hagdorn article, so don't expect accuracy or neutral reporting.

While the headline is a no-brainer and the article is padded with unsupported 'it is believed' conjecture, I found the quotes from Voss interesting and worthy of further discussion.

Voss to assess Brisbane's list

“Obviously we’ll be looking at our list over the next five or six weeks,” Voss revealed.

“But the guys have communicated back to me that they want to finish really strong in the season and they’ve got a lot of encouragement out of the year the fact that we have grown as a group.

“They’re pretty determined to finish the season strong.

“So that’s what we’ll do.

“But at the same time there’s some guys that have been playing pretty well in the reserves that I think it is time we give a game to.”

I'm not interested so much in having another 'who will be delisted?' thread, but the first and last lines of the quote above interest me.

Who do you think Voss has in mind to get games this year, and why?

In my opinion:

Probable:

Beams: 10
Lisle: 10

These two are no-brainers. They've been performing well consistently for months now and I think their performance at senior level has significant potential to shape what happens at the draft/trade week. Give 'em a run Vossy. They've earned it.

Doc: 9

Only rated marginally behind the first two because he's only come on in leaps and bounds playing in the middle in recent weeks. To be fair there wasn't much ball getting down to him in the backline before then. Have no doubt whatsoever that he'll get a game this year, fitness permitting, and will be a long-term player for the Club.

Likely:

Dyson: 7 - Playing for his career, I think he's done enough to earn a shot - would be higher but rookie status might complicate things.


Poooossible:

Wrigley: 5 - Will be interesting to see if he gets a run. Does little wrong in the ressies. Does Voss see him as a permanent ressies top-up / seniors injury fill-in, or is there potential for more there?


Clarke: 5 - Would love for big Justin to get a taster this year, but that's probably unlikely, given his 1st year rookie status. I've no doubt he's going to be a long-term player for the Club so I assume Voss probably won't be in a rush to see what he's got at senior level this year.

Newell: 3 - Another first year rookie, so time's on his side. The coaches clearly love him, but I think he's got a bit more to work on before getting a shot. Look for him to get a shot next year I reckon.


Bartlett: 3 Tough call. Has shown a bit, but certainly hasn't beaten the door down.

O'Brien: 3 Shows moments of class, but hasn't set the world on fire. Not sure of contract status, but may want to get a wriggle on.

Weardo: 2 - Was a lot better on the weekend than in previous showings I've seen from him. Looked quite composed and took some good grabs at HB. As a contracted senior listed player though he doesn't need a run to give Voss a sighter for possible delisting.


Struggled to rate:

McKeever: Voss knows what he's got already, so is there any value in playing him more this year, or will he be 'shelved' to work on his deficiencies? Having said that, he was very good last weekend...so who knows?

Stiller: Again, Voss knows what he's going to get from Cheynee. Will that be enough to stay on?

Sheldon: See Stiller.

Hawksley: I think he has earned another shot at seniors with the way he's lead from the front in the magoos, but he is out with what looks like a calf strain atm. I personally hope he gets another shot.

Harvey: Is in a moon boot currently. With only a few games left this year, he might be in trouble.
--

On the flip-side, who is likely to get rested? By the sounds of the quote it won't be the senior guys...

 

[Haso]

Quality post, Bob.

I would put Doc up there at a 10 with Lisle and Beams. I haven't seen him live, so I would have to defer to you and the regular Ressies watchers on that one, but from what I hear and read he is more than justifying his pick 12. Beams and Lisle fill more of a need than Doc probably, but I think his sheer quality might push him up to their level.

Totally agree on McKeevs, Stiller, Sheldon and Harvey.

 

[thoselionslads]

The only one I would probably rate higher is Wrigley.

We know he is capable of consistent performances in the reserves. Surely as a mature age recruit, with the runs on the board in the 2's, it is a matter of finding out whether he can make the step up. If not on merit than surely from a list management perspective.

 

[BrisbaneLion9636]

Wouldn't rate Bartlett that low TBH Bob, he did have a BOG performance a week ago. Agree with Ian, Doc could go into a 10, and Bartlett could be a 9. Great post!!
From the weekend, I reckon Crisp and Polec could get dropped/rested

 

[chopperduck]

Connecting it with the assessing the list comment I think we might see some fringe players. Obvious picks are Beams, Lisle and Doc, but I think the lesser names are just as likely. We need to make some calls on players, decide how many picks we want to use etc, etc, but at the same time, it sounds like we don't want to throw in the towel either. Would be very easy to not care about the remaining games and just gift games, but I think it's important for culture that we don't go down that path.

 

[Quigley]

I had to laugh at the suggestion that we are going to delist 10 players from our main list. Good old Hagdorn manages to consistently prove he has NFI.

I agree with TLL. Wrigley is one I think they will want to get a look at. Its all about whether he will be able to step up and given his age you give him a couple so you have a baseline.

Docherty is a certainty I think because they will want to give him a taste so he knows what he needs to work on for next year and what to expect. Wouldn't be surprised about a game for Bartlett and Weardo for exactly the same reasons.

 

[Cousin Jed]

I had to laugh at the suggestion that we are going to delist 10 players from our main list. Good old Hagdorn manages to consistently prove he has NFI.

Had a chuckle at that one myself

 

[Baby_Jenks]

I want to see Clarke get a run in the final rounds if nothing else to see him in the flesh. From all accounts he's got the goods technique and mentally wise just a year or two away physically and endurance wise. However in back end of the season we (if memory serves) only come across two teams with fully functioning tall forward lines. WCE and ADE. Even if he gets towelled up in those two that still leaves him with 4 games against RICH, ???, PORT, and WB. Two thumpings, two 50/50 games and two wins. Seems like the perfectly balanced introduction to senior football.
That being said I'm not going to start sharpening the knives and running a hot bath if he's not elevated. One part of my brain will fully understand he's under done, safe for at least another year while still coming on, they want to see other players more than him, our defence has been performing nicely most weeks and cohesion is necessary. I'm just getting toey and worried about our defence in 3-4 years time.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

Of those in line to get a 'rest':

Crisp, Polec, Cornelius, Polkinghorne, Banfield, Bewick, maybe Lester & Yeo although they played well on the weekend.

Those who didn't play on the weekend but who I expect to play at least one more senior match this year:

Green, Golby, Karnezis, Leunberger, Beams, Docherty, Bartlett, Lisle, Longer, McKeever, O'Brien.

Not sure on the others. I'd personally be surprised if Hawk, Cheynee or SOKS got another run. As I said a few weeks back when Stiller was dropped for the Saints game, I think their cards have now been marked. Hawk probably deserves another shot though, but gee he'd need to play the game of his life a few weeks in a row to even have a chance of staying on and earning a new contract.

 

[whatboutbob]

The only one I would probably rate higher is Wrigley.

We know he is capable of consistent performances in the reserves. Surely as a mature age recruit, with the runs on the board in the 2's, it is a matter of finding out whether he can make the step up. If not on merit than surely from a list management perspective.

Considered rating him higher myself for those very reasons. My only question mark over him is that he's not yet been called up when there has been a spot open (most notably Rd 15 when Stiller came in), so wonder if he is seen strictly as a top-up. I'd personally like to see how he goes in the seniors.

Docherty is a certainty I think because they will want to give him a taste so he knows what he needs to work on for next year and what to expect. Wouldn't be surprised about a game for Bartlett and Weardo for exactly the same reasons.

I concur with the bolded bit, but I reckon Doc has a shot at genuinely pushing for best 22 by year's end at the rate he's coming on.

Had a chuckle at that one myself

My reaction to that 'up to 10 players' line was more a derisive snort.

 

[Ray Button]

I had to laugh at the suggestion that we are going to delist 10 players from our main list. Good old Hagdorn manages to consistently prove he has NFI.

I agree with TLL. Wrigley is one I think they will want to get a look at. Its all about whether he will be able to step up and given his age you give him a couple so you have a baseline.

Docherty is a certainty I think because they will want to give him a taste so he knows what he needs to work on for next year and what to expect. Wouldn't be surprised about a game for Bartlett and Weardo for exactly the same reasons.

Don't laugh too loudly. Every year I look at our list and convince myself that only a minimum few changes need to be made, and every year so far Voss has surprised me with 10 - 12 changes (delistings, trades & retirements) from the combined senior & rookie lists (about 25% of the total number). Currently, we have 42 players on the senior list, including two veterans and two upgraded rookies due to LTIs. As an absolute minimum, 5 will have to go from the 42 plus a significant proportion of the rookies. If Voss runs true to form it will be more. Some currently on the senior list may be abe to be rookied if no-one else picks them up.

I tend to grow attached to the blokes on the list, and it's always easy to find an excuse to hold on to them, but the club management has demonstrated a quite hard-nosed attitude in the past. I'm happy to desist from nominating names at the moment (best to leave this for post-season), but there are really only one or two obvious candidates, making for a long and likely surprising list of possibles. This list is also affected to some degree by the practicalities of who is and who isn't out of contract.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Don't clubs assess their list every year??

 

[Voss the boss]

I am in the same boat here as RB and combined with the way the reserves are traveling and most of our rookies, i would have to think that there would be minimal movement. Other than the required numbers and maybe some trade options, i cant see how we will offload more than 3 or 4 from the senior list. The other issue is if voss and co want to elevate rookies (with no time left) to the main list. We may see some rookies become listed players and some listed players become rookies. Interesting times ahead i think.

 

[Offsider]

Shouldn't Voss be assessing the list each year?

I would think that with our young list we will only make 3 to 5 list changes with Buchanon, Stiller, Hawksley and Sheldon being likely delistees.

 

[Ray Button]

Who do you think Voss has in mind to get games this year, and why?

Probables:
Lisle: How does he compare with Cornelius (& possibly Retzlaff) at senior level?
Docherty: Less need to test since he's contracted for next year, but earned a chance
Bartlett: It's time to guage his progress after a decent run of match-fitness in the reserves
Beams: Known to be capable at senior level, but a few more games this year would advance

Possibles:
O'Brien: Opportunity to see again at senior level
Dyson: Opportunity to see again at senior level
Weardon: Similar to Docherty, but less need since coming off a lower base

Unlikely:
Clarke: Almost a certainty to be re-rookied next year - no rush
Michael: Likely to be re-rookied next year - no rush, another pre-season
Newell: Likely to be re-rookied next year - no rush, another pre-season
Wrigley: may be given a run at seniors, but too many in front (eg Golby & Docherty)
Buchanan, Sheldon, Stiller, McKeever, Hawksley: known quantities, but could come in for senior injuries

 

[Mr Ripper]

Hopefully he won't be assessing "Brahms and Liszt".

 

[POBT]

The question mark on Wrigley is if the club sees him more as mature aged support for the youngsters in the reserves. I mean, we are conditioned to believe that every player on a list is there to play senior footy ultimately. And that may be true of Wrigley too. But I think there is also an argument to suggest that the development of youngsters is not best served by being surrounded by other youngsters. So Wrigley might have been recruited with one eye on senior footy and one eye on simply lifting the age profile of our reserves so that the youngsters had some experience to help their development.

To be honest, I'd be surprised if Wrigley gets a game this year but only because it seems like a bit of a line of players ahead of him.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Shouldn't Voss be assessing the list each year?

I would think that with our young list we will only make 3 to 5 list changes with Buchanon, Stiller, Hawksley and Sheldon being likely delistees.

We have a List Manager whose job it is to monitor the list constantly, but when finals are no longer a possibility the whole club including senior coach goes into list assessment mode.
Remember, we have to take 3 picks in the draft and our fourth would be a pretty handing number so its hard to see us not making at least 4 or more likely 5 senior list changes. We are likely to finish somewhere between 10th and 13th, so we can't be too smug about where we're at. The senior listed players that haven't played or have barely played any senior footy this year would have to be concerned, as would second year rookies.

 

[maroon and blue]

Would like to see Green on one hff and Banfield on the other. Their combined pace would be unstoppable.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Would like to see Green on one hff and Banfield on the other. Their combined pace would be unstoppable.

Until they fumble the ball.

 

[Bert Man]

Green has fallen very much so in favour IMO, needs to lift to get back in favour. He has dropped quite a few spots in contention with a call up to the Seniors.

 

[Last of the Roys]

I guess the first question I have about all of this is when do we do it?

Technically we can still make the finals if we win all 6 remaining games, but that is such a long shot. If you ignored that the perfect opportunity would be this week against West Coast.

We could rest some senior players that might need it given the Perth trip is always tough to recover from. I am sure Brown and Hudson could do with a rest - perhaps Black and Drummond too. I know Voss didn't indicate that this is what they would do, but you would have to consider it. (Obviously there are a few other players that could make way as well - ACorn, Crisp and Polec seem the most likely to me).

As for the players I think we will want to have a look at in the seniors before the end of the year:
- Bartlett is top of my list and I would be shocked if he wasn't top of Voss's. He has had some good performances in the resersves without setting the world on fire, but at the end of the day you can only really judge players once you see them at the top level.
- Lisle - given ACorn has yet to really take the next step at senior level and given Lisle's good form in the reserves I would like to see him get a game in the seniors.
- Hawksley - while I have always loved his effort and he has shown signs he could be a reasonable player it looks like he will be delisted at the end of the year. One last run in the seniors might turn it around.
- Dyson - like Hawksley he would be playing for his career.

Everyone else I think we know what they can deliver or don't need to rush them. I think we have already seen enough of Beams this year to know he can be a good player. His selection should be based on merit alone (which must mean he is very close in any case). And I am not really that concerned with any of this year's recruits. Docherty might be one that gets a game though.

 

[Grimreepah]

The club may wish to get a look at certain players, but I still think it will be dependent on them pushing for selection. The players to miss will probably be just the normal turnover from injuries and form.

If there was a most likely to see list, I would go with:

1. Docherty - he was the first name that came to mind when I saw Voss' quotes. With comments earlier in the year that they were trying to add pace into the side, I am surprised he has not already been given a go.
2. Lisle - the Lions have a bit of a list problem in that they've got 3 not quite good enough key forwards (Cornelius, Retzlaff and Lisle). I think from a list management perspective it will be good to give Lisle a go. If he goes well then that might provide clarity on which players to pursue with, and which players to let go.
3. Wrigley - I would say it's important to give him a game to see whether he should be on the senior list, rookie list or delisted. From the sounds of it he is unlucky not to already play a senior game given his consistently good form.
4. Longer - giving him games and Hudson a rest could be mutually beneficial
5. O'Brien - 3rd year player who is yet to really shine. A game or two could show where he is at and whether he is worth persisting with.
6. Clarke - got no idea on him really. It could be that they have shelved him for next year, or they may want to give him a taste this year.
7. Bartlett - the question is whether his reserves form is good enough to warrant an opportunity. I had the impression he was still catching up on fitness.
8. Wearden - don't think he's ready.
9. Dyson - for a small framed player he probably isn't quite excelling enough to make it. I understand he is playing well, but he would probably need to take it to another level.
10. Newell - probably not. I think flaws in his game are still too great.
11. Michael - doesn't seem to be playing well enough.
12. Harvey - injured.
13. Retzlaff - injured.

I didn't include Beams because he is more of a known quantity. He will get his opportunity soon as well you would think. Buchanan, Stiller, Hawksley, Sheldon and McKeever - as already mentioned we have a fair idea on what they offer, so I don't see any great urgency in playing them.

 

[patfullfankezz]

I was under the impression that assessing the list was a 24/7 sorta thing. I know if I were in charge there would constantly be one eye on the list to see who needed a kick up the posterior.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

I was under the impression that assessing the list was a 24/7 sorta thing. I know if I were in charge there would constantly be one eye on the list to see who needed a kick up the posterior.

"assessing the list" in this case seems to be code for having a look at guys at the top level.

Bartlett, Docherty, (L)isle , maybe Dyson would be my guys I'd be looking at.

Wearden has another year, although could push into contention with some more strong showings in the 2s