WRFL Division 1 - 2012

[Zinc]

I understand both Barling & Georgiadis played Juniors for Spotswood but Spotswood wouldn't/couldn't meet their demands.

 

[cinderella man]

They still will not win the flag

Beeg are you backing Julier to be at Altona ? As stated in your previous post. Or were you talking about Posty ?

 

[BEEG]

Beeg are you backing Julier to be at Altona ? As stated in your previous post. Or were you talking about Posty ?

Posty which is pretty common knowledge i have heard about 10 people say it in 2 weeks and another big signing i will not be saying

Posty loves the club his not in it for money

 

[Skipppaaa#47]

im tipping the WRFL would put them straight into div one if they are half serious.

And not that i am associated with Werribee, it took them to leave the WRFL to become the excellent club they are. it would be a shame to see them go back.

agreed, i do like they go about it.. wrfl should try in some way to get them back, youd think that getting them would be a bigger benefit than having two new teams which will be lucky 2 win more than 10 games combined over the next 5 years. having werribee would strengthen the competition rather than just making it bigger....

 

[DC25]

Weapons, Logitech

Thanks for you opinions - by the way I don't care if DP win or not, but I wish them the best, like all clubs.

I hear those sentiments a lot - "If clubs are not well organised enough to get off their backsides to raise funds, then they simply don't deserve to be successful. And they shouldn't complain about the ones that are."

What do you think clubs should be about? Basically there are two schools of thought:

1) The main objective of a club as a community organisation is to maximise participation, and so help build the community by delivering healthy habits, leadership, social cohesion and life skills - especially for young people.
2) The main objective of clubs is to win a flag.

It seems that the current structure is driving us toward point 2.

Personally, I don't mind that, IF it would not limit performance of point 1 items. But it does in many ways:

A) Committees spend more time fund raising than anything else (and I can tell you they generally don't like it). This means less time is spend on driving great Junior programs, including school programs, multicultural engagement etc. Committee members simply run out of time.
B) Loyal junior players get pushed out of the Senior ranks, often after 10 years of football service, for imported mercenaries. Supporters will never see those local boys play Senior football (without having a stab, Hoppers seems to be an obvious example here, but it happens at all clubs). And often you also lose them as future club volunteers. Because you can import whoever you want, there is less imperative to get your own Juniors ready for Senior football and work to keep them.
C) The funds generated would be able to be directed toward updating club facilities. We are left with very poor facilities across the WRFL and arguably, this is the Council's responsibility, but we all know how that works.
D) Invariably, it seems that some of the Junior revenues are diverted to pay Senior players, which seems wrong to me and to many parents also.
E) And lastly, you can do everything right as a club, but never have a chance of winning a flag, simply because you don't have the buying power. IMHO, if that determines who wins, then any comp in any sport would be the poorer for it (refer to EPL and NBA).

Even the AFL has recognised that fully opening up buying and selling without a cap does not work. If it was the case, eg Collingwood would have bought every key player in the league, win every game and eg. the Dogs would only have second rate players and never win a game (sounds like a situation we know?).

Solutions then?

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. You should be able to strengthen your team by recruiting some players, but there needs to be a limit, whilst participation/development of local players needs to be encouraged.

For me, I prefer a points system. You cannot monitor a salary cap, you can easily monitor a points cap. Across Mlb Metro would be great.

Implementing a WRFL-only points system would drive out most mercenaries. In that case, I will certainly enjoy watching young local home-grown players of any team come through!

 

[FOOTYONTHENOSE]

Weapons, Logitech

Thanks for you opinions - by the way I don't care if DP win or not, but I wish them the best, like all clubs.

I hear those sentiments a lot - "If clubs are not well organised enough to get off their backsides to raise funds, then they simply don't deserve to be successful. And they shouldn't complain about the ones that are."

What do you think clubs should be about? Basically there are two schools of thought:

1) The main objective of a club as a community organisation is to maximise participation, and so help build the community by delivering healthy habits, leadership, social cohesion and life skills - especially for young people.
2) The main objective of clubs is to win a flag.

It seems that the current structure is driving us toward point 2.

Personally, I don't mind that, IF it would not limit performance of point 1 items. But it does in many ways:

A) Committees spend more time fund raising than anything else (and I can tell you they generally don't like it). This means less time is spend on driving great Junior programs, including school programs, multicultural engagement etc. Committee members simply run out of time.
B) Loyal junior players get pushed out of the Senior ranks, often after 10 years of football service, for imported mercenaries. Supporters will never see those local boys play Senior football (without having a stab, Hoppers seems to be an obvious example here, but it happens at all clubs). And often you also lose them as future club volunteers. Because you can import whoever you want, there is less imperative to get your own Juniors ready for Senior football and work to keep them.
C) The funds generated would be able to be directed toward updating club facilities. We are left with very poor facilities across the WRFL and arguably, this is the Council's responsibility, but we all know how that works.
D) Invariably, it seems that some of the Junior revenues are diverted to pay Senior players, which seems wrong to me and to many parents also.
E) And lastly, you can do everything right as a club, but never have a chance of winning a flag, simply because you don't have the buying power. IMHO, if that determines who wins, then any comp in any sport would be the poorer for it (refer to EPL and NBA).

Even the AFL has recognised that fully opening up buying and selling without a cap does not work. If it was the case, eg Collingwood would have bought every key player in the league, win every game and eg. the Dogs would only have second rate players and never win a game (sounds like a situation we know?).

Solutions then?

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. You should be able to strengthen your team by recruiting some players, but there needs to be a limit, whilst participation/development of local players needs to be encouraged.

For me, I prefer a points system. You cannot monitor a salary cap, you can easily monitor a points cap. Across Mlb Metro would be great.

Implementing a WRFL-only points system would drive out most mercenaries. In that case, I will certainly enjoy watching young local home-grown players of any team come through!

 

[FOOTYONTHENOSE]

Weapons, Logitech

Thanks for you opinions - by the way I don't care if DP win or not, but I wish them the best, like all clubs.

I hear those sentiments a lot - "If clubs are not well organised enough to get off their backsides to raise funds, then they simply don't deserve to be successful. And they shouldn't complain about the ones that are."

What do you think clubs should be about? Basically there are two schools of thought:

1) The main objective of a club as a community organisation is to maximise participation, and so help build the community by delivering healthy habits, leadership, social cohesion and life skills - especially for young people.
2) The main objective of clubs is to win a flag.

It seems that the current structure is driving us toward point 2.

Personally, I don't mind that, IF it would not limit performance of point 1 items. But it does in many ways:

A) Committees spend more time fund raising than anything else (and I can tell you they generally don't like it). This means less time is spend on driving great Junior programs, including school programs, multicultural engagement etc. Committee members simply run out of time.
B) Loyal junior players get pushed out of the Senior ranks, often after 10 years of football service, for imported mercenaries. Supporters will never see those local boys play Senior football (without having a stab, Hoppers seems to be an obvious example here, but it happens at all clubs). And often you also lose them as future club volunteers. Because you can import whoever you want, there is less imperative to get your own Juniors ready for Senior football and work to keep them.
C) The funds generated would be able to be directed toward updating club facilities. We are left with very poor facilities across the WRFL and arguably, this is the Council's responsibility, but we all know how that works.
D) Invariably, it seems that some of the Junior revenues are diverted to pay Senior players, which seems wrong to me and to many parents also.
E) And lastly, you can do everything right as a club, but never have a chance of winning a flag, simply because you don't have the buying power. IMHO, if that determines who wins, then any comp in any sport would be the poorer for it (refer to EPL and NBA).

Even the AFL has recognised that fully opening up buying and selling without a cap does not work. If it was the case, eg Collingwood would have bought every key player in the league, win every game and eg. the Dogs would only have second rate players and never win a game (sounds like a situation we know?).

Solutions then?

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. You should be able to strengthen your team by recruiting some players, but there needs to be a limit, whilst participation/development of local players needs to be encouraged.

For me, I prefer a points system. You cannot monitor a salary cap, you can easily monitor a points cap. Across Mlb Metro would be great.

Implementing a WRFL-only points system would drive out most mercenaries. In that case, I will certainly enjoy watching young local home-grown players of any team come through!

Hoppers have been terrible over recent years in keeping their juniors, but it seems the penny has finally dropped.

They have signed every u18 player from this year that goes up to seniors, approximately 15 to 20 players. With both under 18 sides winning the flag it is obvious that there is great depth within the club so it appears that the time has come to develop the youngmen coming thru our club.
Yes as a club they may need to recruit some players that will fast track this development process, so the money can be kept within the club for the juniors coming thru and not the ones that will be their for a minmalamount of time.

 

[w.weapons]

They could finish top I don't give a flying crap I said they will not win the premiship!!


And to everyone talking about cash ruining the comp and etc, it's just the muppets running some clubs that are separating the good clubs from bad, the more money pumped in the better the prestige of the comp which attracts more high quality signings at all clubs!

hungey says they win the flag????.....get fairdinkum have a crack!!!!

you tell me who are the good clubs......and who are the bad clubs.......??????

to me your post dont make sence...........

keep up your good work.........

dc congrats for last year.....credit where its due

 

[w.weapons]

Weapons, Logitech

Thanks for you opinions - by the way I don't care if DP win or not, but I wish them the best, like all clubs.

I hear those sentiments a lot - "If clubs are not well organised enough to get off their backsides to raise funds, then they simply don't deserve to be successful. And they shouldn't complain about the ones that are."

What do you think clubs should be about? Basically there are two schools of thought:

1) The main objective of a club as a community organisation is to maximise participation, and so help build the community by delivering healthy habits, leadership, social cohesion and life skills - especially for young people.
2) The main objective of clubs is to win a flag.

It seems that the current structure is driving us toward point 2.

Personally, I don't mind that, IF it would not limit performance of point 1 items. But it does in many ways:

A) Committees spend more time fund raising than anything else (and I can tell you they generally don't like it). This means less time is spend on driving great Junior programs, including school programs, multicultural engagement etc. Committee members simply run out of time.
B) Loyal junior players get pushed out of the Senior ranks, often after 10 years of football service, for imported mercenaries. Supporters will never see those local boys play Senior football (without having a stab, Hoppers seems to be an obvious example here, but it happens at all clubs). And often you also lose them as future club volunteers. Because you can import whoever you want, there is less imperative to get your own Juniors ready for Senior football and work to keep them.
C) The funds generated would be able to be directed toward updating club facilities. We are left with very poor facilities across the WRFL and arguably, this is the Council's responsibility, but we all know how that works.
D) Invariably, it seems that some of the Junior revenues are diverted to pay Senior players, which seems wrong to me and to many parents also.
E) And lastly, you can do everything right as a club, but never have a chance of winning a flag, simply because you don't have the buying power. IMHO, if that determines who wins, then any comp in any sport would be the poorer for it (refer to EPL and NBA).

Even the AFL has recognised that fully opening up buying and selling without a cap does not work. If it was the case, eg Collingwood would have bought every key player in the league, win every game and eg. the Dogs would only have second rate players and never win a game (sounds like a situation we know?).

Solutions then?

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. You should be able to strengthen your team by recruiting some players, but there needs to be a limit, whilst participation/development of local players needs to be encouraged.

For me, I prefer a points system. You cannot monitor a salary cap, you can easily monitor a points cap. Across Mlb Metro would be great.

Implementing a WRFL-only points system would drive out most mercenaries. In that case, I will certainly enjoy watching young local home-grown players of any team come through!

point 1 and 2 deer park cirtianly tick both boxes....

im over it...its all bulls1t talk....lets wait till the real stuff starts....

 

[Obscene]

Will Hoppers Crossing get value for their big signing James Mulligan who would have to be the worst player to survive on an AFL list for 5 years, but perhaps it is a bigger indictment on the Bulldogs recruiting and list management during this period.

 

[w.weapons]

They still will not win the flag

put it to you plain and simple....deer park have a budget to work within......with the players who have signed they will get more value for money than what they did last season.....imo........

cant wait to see spotty be the 3rd or 4th best team........

henderson to st albans......another out

 

[w.weapons]

Will Hoppers Crossing get value for their big signing James Mulligan who would have to be the worst player to survive on an AFL list for 5 years, but perhaps it is a bigger indictment on the Bulldogs recruiting and list management during this period.

who cares another good player into the comp brings the gap closer.......

 

[footyman]

1) The main objective of a club as a community organisation is to maximise participation, and so help build the community by delivering healthy habits, leadership, social cohesion and life skills - especially for young people.
2) The main objective of clubs is to win a flag.

It seems that the current structure is driving us toward point 2.

The reality is that most people who plough dollars into a footy club and most people who run these footy clubs are 95% concerned with the senior team and a senior premiership and therefore probably couldn't care less about the first point. Reserves flags and Under 18 flags are nice to get but they are not what drives many committee people and sponsors.

B) Loyal junior players get pushed out of the Senior ranks, often after 10 years of football service, for imported mercenaries. Supporters will never see those local boys play Senior football (without having a stab, Hoppers seems to be an obvious example here, but it happens at all clubs). And often you also lose them as future club volunteers. Because you can import whoever you want, there is less imperative to get your own Juniors ready for Senior football and work to keep them.

Spot on. You put the development in and you've got to get a return on your investment. You can't lose great club people - the mercenaries won't be there in a couple of years, your loyal ones will be there in 20 or 30 years - their kids will go through the club, they might be future sponsors or presidents or committee people.

D) Invariably, it seems that some of the Junior revenues are diverted to pay Senior players, which seems wrong to me and to many parents also.

Shouldnt happen but no doubt it does happen. In my view every dollar earnt from a particular age group should be ploughed back into that age group.

You could actually buy decent footys for a junior team to use for a whole season for the same amount of cash that some clubs pay one player for a game of footy.

For me, I prefer a points system. You cannot monitor a salary cap, you can easily monitor a points cap. Across Mlb Metro would be great.

Implementing a WRFL-only points system would drive out most mercenaries. In that case, I will certainly enjoy watching young local home-grown players of any team come through!

Personal view is I'm not sure about the points system but I agree it's the only type of equalisation tool that can be used. Salary Caps dont work with cash flying around in local footy. A point system would need a lot of analysis done and would probably need to be initiated at a higher level.

 

[pieeater12]

hungey says they win the flag????.....get fairdinkum have a crack!!!!

you tell me who are the good clubs......and who are the bad clubs.......??????

to me your post dont make sence...........

keep up your good work.........

dc congrats for last year.....credit where its due

First nice thing you have said about me in 3 years, haha

Thanks mate

 

[Zinc]

put it to you plain and simple....deer park have a budget to work within......with the players who have signed they will get more value for money than what they did last season.....imo........

cant wait to see spotty be the 3rd or 4th best team........

henderson to st albans......another out

Jealous are you? I bet a lot of teams would like to be 3rd or 4th best. What is your teams record over the past 30 years? Altona may be the next team to have a long successful period.

 

[SlipperyWhenWet]

interesting discussion on the EDFL page in relation to a certain financial backer from the EDFL now in the WRFL.

What you say is true about Marby being wrapped in winning flags. When clubs let money men stroke their own ego by buying flags, they know it will eventually dry up. Even though you can't blame Marby for taking the money, they should be criticised for not setting their club up to be a well managed Premier Division Club who could stand on their own after the money dried up. As for the money man, he has gone to WFL to stroke his ego some more and do the same there. What is amazing in all of this is that the money man is on the EDFL board. How can a board member be instumental in directly inflating player payments and being such a negative influence on the league clubs in general. He alone has cost every club in EDFL Premier Division around $20,000 per year in inflating player budgets. That is $20,000 last year, the year before and the one before that as well as next year and years to come!!!!!!!!! Come on Pricy, how can you let this happen in having a board member represent the league whilst bringing it to disrepute? We know that you read this forum even before you read the Herald Sun with your bacon and eggs in the morning, so Pricy have a think about it!!​

If he's on the EDFL board whilst weakening an EDFL club by poaching players to play for a WRFL side it's a bit of a conflict of interest..
I'm not the best person to speak of Marby but they've been improving their juniors over the past few years so hopefully for their sake that this will hold them in good stead going forward.. they'll have one of their juniors being picked up in the upcoming draft most likely, which will be a step in the right direction and encourage more young blokes to head down there.
As for the spending, whether it's Marby/Greenvale/Abers/Strathmore someone is always going to splash the cash more than others and as we've seen previously the club doles out the most money to players doesn't automatically win a flag.
For mine, if someone wants to piss away stacks of their own cash for a year or two, let them. The "Marby model" of buying a whole side is never sustainable as someone else will be able to turn their head with even more money at some point. A good club isn't built soley on money which is why the Strathmores/Keilors/Greenvales never fall away too much despite fluctuating expenditure.

There are a lot of unhappy campers left in the wake of this bloke moving from club to club

 

[BlueJet]

interesting discussion on the EDFL page in relation to a certain financial backer from the EDFL now in the WRFL.

What you say is true about Marby being wrapped in winning flags. When clubs let money men stroke their own ego by buying flags, they know it will eventually dry up. Even though you can't blame Marby for taking the money, they should be criticised for not setting their club up to be a well managed Premier Division Club who could stand on their own after the money dried up. As for the money man, he has gone to WFL to stroke his ego some more and do the same there. What is amazing in all of this is that the money man is on the EDFL board. How can a board member be instumental in directly inflating player payments and being such a negative influence on the league clubs in general. He alone has cost every club in EDFL Premier Division around $20,000 per year in inflating player budgets. That is $20,000 last year, the year before and the one before that as well as next year and years to come!!!!!!!!! Come on Pricy, how can you let this happen in having a board member represent the league whilst bringing it to disrepute? We know that you read this forum even before you read the Herald Sun with your bacon and eggs in the morning, so Pricy have a think about it!!​

If he's on the EDFL board whilst weakening an EDFL club by poaching players to play for a WRFL side it's a bit of a conflict of interest..
I'm not the best person to speak of Marby but they've been improving their juniors over the past few years so hopefully for their sake that this will hold them in good stead going forward.. they'll have one of their juniors being picked up in the upcoming draft most likely, which will be a step in the right direction and encourage more young blokes to head down there.
As for the spending, whether it's Marby/Greenvale/Abers/Strathmore someone is always going to splash the cash more than others and as we've seen previously the club doles out the most money to players doesn't automatically win a flag.
For mine, if someone wants to piss away stacks of their own cash for a year or two, let them. The "Marby model" of buying a whole side is never sustainable as someone else will be able to turn their head with even more money at some point. A good club isn't built soley on money which is why the Strathmores/Keilors/Greenvales never fall away too much despite fluctuating expenditure.

There are a lot of unhappy campers left in the wake of this bloke moving from club to club

Not unhappy at all, my club (Greenvale) is better off without him.
My only thing is Deer Park, like Marby better be prepared to fall away in a year or two when he gets bored with his latest toy..

 

[footyman]

I think the administration of football in Victoria needs a massive overhaul. It's starting in the country with the VCFL being restructured and more region managers in charge but I'd like to see the same thing happen in the Metro area. It's time for someone at a higher level to do something about a lot of the issues affecting metro footy.

People can jump up and down about Deer Park but what Deer Park are doing is within the rules. The WRFL make generalised statements about concerns with unevenness in competitions but what are they going to do about it? They might make Div 1 an 8 or 9 team competition in 2014 - big deal. Is that going to solve the problem? With what Deer Park are spending and the calibre of player they are signing, the WRFL could end up being 1 team competition next year with the rest of the comp fighting each other to see who earns the right to be humiliated on Grand Final Day.

I think the WRFL need to spend a bit more time listening to participants within their competitions and do a far better job of communicating with them. And they need to do more to build the league up. You jump on the website and senior Presentation night photos have been "coming soon" for 6 weeks, and there is nothing about the new teams, new coaches, or changes to a few WRFL by-laws in the last month. Where's the last 10 minutes of footage from the Div 1 Grand Final? Some potential recruits will do their homework and the league should do more to help make the league look exciting and relevant.

 

[w.weapons]

First nice thing you have said about me in 3 years, haha

Thanks mate

look it was more an albanvale/deer park thing.......

premier/champions are hard to come by......

not having a go at you but didnt you sign a heap of players from your ex club in the edfl to come to the wrfl????

 

[w.weapons]

Jealous are you? I bet a lot of teams would like to be 3rd or 4th best. What is your teams record over the past 30 years? Altona may be the next team to have a long successful period.

yep jealous.....bloody oath......

you want stats.....played in 22 finals series out of the 30 years....3 premierships 5 runners up 1 wooden spoon with 7 comp bnf's......

envious is the better word!!!

 

[w.weapons]

Not unhappy at all, my club (Greenvale) is better off without him.
My only thing is Deer Park, like Marby better be prepared to fall away in a year or two when he gets bored with his latest toy..

good glad he is up and about in ''3023''.......and if your reading GA you have weapo's full support!!!!!

money man shmoney man.....get a grip peeps take your unwanted negative talk elsewhere......

 

[BlueJet]

good glad he is up and about in ''3023''.......and if your reading GA you have weapo's full support!!!!!

money man shmoney man.....get a grip peeps take your unwanted negative talk elsewhere......

I wasn't negative, I stated facts. There are plenty of people with negative opinions of GA and that's only through his own actions.
Deer Park have picked up some good local footy players, hopefully Altona/Spotswood etc can match them next season.

 

[w.weapons]

I wasn't negative, I stated facts. There are plenty of people with negative opinions of GA and that's only through his own actions.
Deer Park have picked up some good local footy players, hopefully Altona/Spotswood etc can match them next season.

not sure about your facts.......the only1 that stands out is that your club didnt tickle his fancy and took the success/coin when it was there......now it sounds to me that you just want to jump on board with the other riff raff and stick your 2 bobs in......

best thing is he's been around ''3023'' for 3 years already........

not knowing gvale surely would be a strong jnr club.......though a sponsor that would kick in coin to win a div 1 flag you dont/wouldnt want....geeeeez...i might do a bit of homework and check previous threads/postings regarding greenvale when they were at the top of the tree(i wont because i couldnt give a rats arse)as ive previously stated local footy has a cycle teams go up n down......players come and go.......sponsors jump on and off......best thing for my club imo is that the right people are onboard(commitee - even they have come and gone-now back to make the club a better place)they are people who i respect and ive looked up to all my life........

ill leave u with this opinions are like arseholes every1 has 1......

for me now finished up playing...(too fat n slow)..+..(rather talk sh1t with muppets on here)..my kids boys and girls who will like me call the place home..........

blue and gold blood....nuff said

 

[BlueJet]

not sure about your facts.......the only1 that stands out is that your club didnt tickle his fancy and took the success/coin when it was there......now it sounds to me that you just want to jump on board with the other riff raff and stick your 2 bobs in......

best thing is he's been around ''3023'' for 3 years already........

not knowing gvale surely would be a strong jnr club.......though a sponsor that would kick in coin to win a div 1 flag you dont/wouldnt want....geeeeez...i might do a bit of homework and check previous threads/postings regarding greenvale when they were at the top of the tree(i wont because i couldnt give a rats arse)as ive previously stated local footy has a cycle teams go up n down......players come and go.......sponsors jump on and off......best thing for my club imo is that the right people are onboard(commitee - even they have come and gone-now back to make the club a better place)they are people who i respect and ive looked up to all my life........

ill leave u with this opinions are like arseholes every1 has 1......

for me now finished up playing...(too fat n slow)..+..(rather talk sh1t with muppets on here)..my kids boys and girls who will like me call the place home..........

blue and gold blood....nuff said

Judging by how our respective clubs went last year, I'm not sure that he took the success with him...so as I said, Greenvale is fine without him.
I've no bitterness towards him. If he's got money to throw around good luck to him.

 

[Obscene]

I understand both Barling & Georgiadis played Juniors for Spotswood but Spotswood wouldn't/couldn't meet their demands.

I wouldn't think that Spotswood would pay $ 8K sign on fees plus over $ 1k per game, even for ex junior players !!!!