The Steve Waugh era

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Wallaby said:
Well, we won the first test comfortably, and lost the 2nd by only 2 runs. I don't think under-preparation is a fair charge. 2005 was just 'one of those things'.
As I've said many times before - you replay the 2005 series 5 times and we win 4. That's sport..............
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Consider how many catches we dropped. Consider the pissweak efforts from our batsmen to occupy the crease. What was basically the same team then went until the third test in 2007-2008 at the WACA against India before losing another test, and in that same time won every game except for a draw against South Africa. That series was a massive wake-up call, but unfortunately the lessons were forgotten as soon as we won the Ashes back.

Slax said:
Taylor>Chappell>Clarke*>Border>Waugh>Ponting>Hughes

Border had an ordinary side for a lot of his captaincy, this was partially due to the rebel tours of SA, but also jsut a lack of depth in Australian cricket at the time. He ended up with a mentality of make sure we can't lose the match rather than trying to win, but it came about as a victim of circumstance. His captaincy did become more attacking towards the end when he had a better side.
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Waugh > Taylor = Chappell > Border > Ponting > Hughes. Way to early to rank Clarke, although I certainly think he could end up the best.

You're giving Border an out by saying he didn't have a great side. It's a captain's job to get as much as he can from the team. Clarke is showing us now that when you back your players (making aggressive declarations) you win more matches. Same goes for Waugh batting with the tail; he backed them and they became better for it.
 

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Think Mark Waugh was not the best batsman, but his bowling was handy and you can't forget his amazing fielding.
 
I reference to the 05 ashes I swear we would of won that series if DRS was available at the time. Think about the howlers that would of been overturned.

That series wasn't much of Ponting being a bad captain, but Vaughn being an amazing captain. I can't think of a bad move he did that whole series. Great tactics by him.
 
While I do sort of feel that Mark Waugh was Australia's Carl Hooper, insofar as he found dumb ways to get out and lacked the desire to make big scores*, he did average closer to 45 during the 1990's, which is reasonably impressive.

He played on for too long though, explaining his lowish career average.

(*Waugh had the better Test career, but Hooper did somehow find it in himself to score 233 at the end of his career - funny)
 
Mark Waugh still hit 20 test tons, some bloody good ones in there as well. His career post-2001 ashes was pretty dire IIRC but he was a bloody good bat (amongst my favourite to watch thats for sure).

Re the 05 ashes, McGrath tredding on that ball had a huge effect, he wasnt fully fit for either of the test he played after that and after killing them at Lords his loss was huge. There wasnt anyone to keep the pressure on.
 
DaRick said:
While I do sort of feel that Mark Waugh was Australia's Carl Hooper, insofar as he found dumb ways to get out and lacked the desire to make big scores*, he did average closer to 45 during the 1990's, which is reasonably impressive.

He played on for too long though, explaining his lowish career average.

(*Waugh had the better Test career, but Hooper did somehow find it in himself to score 233 at the end of his career - funny)
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All my favourite batsmen are Mark Waugh types, him, Carl Hooper, Azar, Gower, so beautiful to watch when in flight, also so wasteful and held their wicket at a similar value as the Zim dollar, Azar excepted who may have been offered $US to throw away his wicket.
 
Personally, I look back on it with great regret. Regret that I took it all for granted. I was too young to appreciate the hard work that went in to building that side (and Taylor's), as a teenager of the 90s, I arrogantly assumed Australia had a right to be the best.

I'm ashamed to say that until the turn of the century used to barrack for the underdog, ie whoever was playing Australia. Including England. :(

Met Waugh at an after party at the Olympics in London a few months ago, asked him where his little red cloth was but he couldnt string a sentence together. Was disappointed.
 
cross#4 said:
Lee gets underrated I think. Dizzy and him flip a coin.

Martyn is my favourite all time batsmen. But Hussey is just so good. I'd go Martyn just for his drives and late cuts.

Looking at that team though, I think I weirdly miss Stuart Clark the most.

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Lee= Gillespie, Clark > Gillespie.

Whatever you are smoking, stop taking it.

Dizzy's record until his decline and then shunning by selectors was almost McGrath like. Unbelieveable bowler who the selectors f'ed over in the end after one really bad tour.

Clark=Lee maybe.

It goes McGrath=Warne>Gillespie>>MacGill>>>>>>>>>>>>Fleming>>Lee=Clark=Kaspa
 

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Brilliant, just brilliant, I haven't enjoyed cricket as much since. Obviously I idolized the dude, from the ruthless, steely way he dismissed me when I asked for an autograph to modelling my approach toward sexual, racial and personal abuse on the cricket field on his tactics for psychological warfare - much to my cousin's chagrin during family games. He elevated players like Damien Martyn and the BNG to greatness and made me not fall asleep during the world cup, so I have the utmost respect.
 
Steve Waugh would of been a good captain with any team, not everyone would of been able to control all those egos in the dressing room yet he seemed to have them all marching to the same beat.
 
crownie said:
Steve Waugh would of been a good captain with any team, not everyone would of been able to control all those egos in the dressing room yet he seemed to have them all marching to the same beat.
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I've been involved in sport with sides that have a number of huge egos, when you're winning they all get along well, part of the ego is an ultra competitive streak that just doesn't want to lose (Hayden, Langer, McGrath, Warne all fit this) and winning helps them get along as none is trying to blame anyone else for losing. Once you start losing the the egos will start fighting and this is why I believe Katich got dumped the way he did.

UseYourIllusion said:
You're giving Border an out by saying he didn't have a great side. It's a captain's job to get as much as he can from the team. Clarke is showing us now that when you back your players (making aggressive declarations) you win more matches. Same goes for Waugh batting with the tail; he backed them and they became better for it.
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I watched a lot of cricket during the Border era and during the mid-80s we were absolutely terrible, the worst part is we had no depth. Go back and have a look at some of the averages to see just how ordinary we were, the blokes below all played over 25 tests in an era where less tests were played, we churned through wicket keepers until Ian Healy got the nod, our best bowler in the era kept breaking down (Reid)

Geoff Marsh - 33
Greg Ritchie - 35
Wayne Phillips - 32

This is part of the reason why I rate Matthews ahead of Mark Waugh, because he kept coming to the crease with the side in the sh*t and having to bat with the lower order which Waugh didn't.
 
Pevers-Legend said:
Lee= Gillespie, Clark > Gillespie.

Whatever you are smoking, stop taking it.

Dizzy's record until his decline and then shunning by selectors was almost McGrath like. Unbelieveable bowler who the selectors f'ed over in the end after one really bad tour.

Clark=Lee maybe.

It goes McGrath=Warne>Gillespie>>MacGill>>>>>>>>>>>>Fleming>>Lee=Clark=Kaspa
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I said who I miss the most, not who was the best or who we miss the most. Obviously he would be behind a few.

Clark was a jet though. Goes underrated.
 
cross#4 said:
I reference to the 05 ashes I swear we would of won that series if DRS was available at the time. Think about the howlers that would of been overturned.

That series wasn't much of Ponting being a bad captain, but Vaughn being an amazing captain. I can't think of a bad move he did that whole series. Great tactics by him.
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win the toss and bat and give Freddie a bowl?
 
Slax said:
I've been involved in sport with sides that have a number of huge egos, when you're winning they all get along well, part of the ego is an ultra competitive streak that just doesn't want to lose (Hayden, Langer, McGrath, Warne all fit this) and winning helps them get along as none is trying to blame anyone else for losing. Once you start losing the the egos will start fighting and this is why I believe Katich got dumped the way he did.
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it's well known now that not all of them got along.
 
iluvparis said:
He's not underrated if you are putting him anywhere near Gillespie.
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Maybe I underrate Dizzy, I didn't see a great deal of him.
 
cross#4 said:
I reference to the 05 ashes I swear we would of won that series if DRS was available at the time. Think about the howlers that would of been overturned.

That series wasn't much of Ponting being a bad captain, but Vaughn being an amazing captain. I can't think of a bad move he did that whole series. Great tactics by him.
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I seem to remember him sooking when he was hit in the head in the first test at Lords, and then again when a substitute ran him out. Ponting seemed desperate to be friendly with the English while they were just focussed on winning.
 
Pevers-Legend said:
Another failed Redbacks import.


Damn it!!!!:mad:
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did he ever even play for the red backs, i know he moved to SA because he married a woman from there.

i do remember Taylor commenting once that he always rated Hooper as one of the modt talented players that he ever played against on ability
 
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