Science/Environment Anti-vacc Crazies at it again. Post appropriate outrage ITT

[Clubs are trumps]

It might be news to you that there is a world wide shortage of IC Nurses. Guess why?

Mate i work at the hospital i mentioned in my post above. Im giving an insight into whats happening. I watched my ex struggle to get employment as a nurse after graduating here during the outbreak of the pandemic, simply because she was born in Nepal. If you're going to ask a condescending sarcastic question you can cram it.

 

[tandino]

Great, Yarra ranges is where both myself & my pregnant daughter live.

It's going to be risky taking her bubs out, until it has had it's vaccinations.

I wouldn't worry unless you live out past the edge of civilization.

I'd bet most of those kids reside in the Upper Yarra Valley. The perfect mix of self-righteousness and ignorance.

 

[mantis]

I wouldn't worry unless you live out past the edge of civilization.

I'd bet most of those kids reside in the Upper Yarra Valley. The perfect mix of self-righteousness and ignorance.

My daughter lives in Cockatoo, so that makes me worry more.

I'm going to get a whooping cough booster shot, just to make sure her baby is safe.

 

[J_Moore]

I don't think it is all cases but I have no doubt there is some link in some cases. Plenty more allergies since vaccines were brought in too so I think it is naive to think there are no other side effects.
.

There has not been a single credible scientific study that shows a link between vaccination and autism. It's been speculated that there's a link for years, and it's been thoroughly discredited.

If the link was so obvious that lay parents could figure it out, do you think the medical community would have wilfully ignored it, and continued administering vaccines for shits and giggles?

There is no demonstrable link, and the anecdotal evidence of parents is not a substitute for medical science.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

I have sympathy for parents whose children have autism, and understand their desire to blame 'something' for it.

As pointed out though science has thoroughly discredited that link.

 

[Pie eyed]

Any experience with this? My partner works at a school specifically for autistic children early intervention. She told me of one particular parent who said immediately after one of the vaccines her daughters behaviour changed. Soon after the docs said she had autism.

The mother was adamant this happened, and straight away she regressed. An example of this was she used to run to meet her dad at the door every day after work without fail. Immediately after the vaccine this changed, she stopped associating with him altogether. Never spoke again etc...

Plenty of court settlements in some countries seem to indicate some link, otherwise they wouldn't pay out or lose the cases...

I don't think it is all cases but I have no doubt there is some link in some cases. Plenty more allergies since vaccines were brought in too so I think it is naive to think there are no other side effects.

I have never had the flu shot and never get sick let alone the flu.

The number "things" which have increased side by side with allergies is vast, such as the use of Progesterone in fertilizers, radiation from telecommunications devices (phone, tv, game consoles etc), exposure to rare elements through same, use of preservatives in foods, use of chemicals in cleaning products, preponderance of airborne chemical environment conditioners (room deodorizers, insect repellants/poisons constantly emitted directly into the immediate atmosphere), over-protection of children from common and in many cases necessary biological threats, increased reporting and perceived importance/seriousness of minor conditions/reactions not necessarily of any concern explainable by an increased education surrounding allergies, a decrease in sun exposure resulting in a world wide vitamin D deficiency, a massive increase in fossil fuel emissions in the last 60 years etc etc...the list is large and varied.

Considering vaccination actually performs a measurable, vital service and with overwhelmingly documented efficacy it seems odd to single that out because of a spurious link to some allergies.

 

[TheMase]

Fair enough points above, I was merely pointing out an example of one person that my partner knows who walked into a docs with a normal daughter and walked out with a daughter with an immediate change in behaviour.

Allergies was pointing out only one thing, but you do make a good point about all the other stuff we consume that is killing us.

I do find it interesting that so many trust pharmaceutical organisations who make money from you being sick. They don't make money by limiting your return for new business. And I would have thought the so called credible medical studies would be heavily sponsored by these organisations themselves a lot of the time.

 

[J_Moore]

I do find it interesting that so many trust pharmaceutical organisations who make money from you being sick. They don't make money by limiting your return for new business. And I would have thought the so called credible medical studies would be heavily sponsored by these organisations themselves a lot of the time.

I don't trust "pharmaceutical organisations". I trust medical science and the medical community. If you think that doctors & research scientists are all so hopelessly compromised that they knowingly and willingly peddle products that make people ill, and have falsified thousands upon thousands of reports and studies over the years, then good luck to you, but personally I think the odds of a world-wide, decades long conspiracy like that are pretty slim.

Honestly, if you are going to dismiss scientific studies out of hand because you think they are tainted by big pharma money, then there is literally no point engaging in the discussion, because there's no level of proof which will prove satisfactory. It's like engaging in a discussion about evolution with a creationist who tells you that radio-carbon dating dinosaur fossils only shows them to be millions of years old because God made them that way. It's essentially non-falsifiable.

As it stands, vaccines account for about 1.5% of the revenue of the pharmaceutical industry, so it's not much, and I imagine that plenty of that revenue would be tied up with more recent vaccines (HPV, influenza, etc), rather than long established treatments which tend to be barely profitable once they're off patent.

 

[Cap]

I have sympathy for parents whose children have autism, and understand their desire to blame 'something' for it.

As pointed out though science has thoroughly discredited that link.

unfortunately we don't have a vaccine for stupidity.

 

[J_Moore]

unfortunately we don't have a vaccine for stupidity.

I don't think it's stupidity. I think it's a very understandable reaction to a terrible situation. It must be absolutely devastating, and it makes sense that people would try to identify a cause so they can alleviate some of the sense of hopelessness. But, like I said, the link has been investigated and there's nothing there.

 

[Cap]

I don't think it's stupidity. I think it's a very understandable reaction to a terrible situation. It must be absolutely devastating, and it makes sense that people would try to identify a cause so they can alleviate some of the sense of hopelessness. But, like I said, the link has been investigated and there's nothing there.

I get the blame game, but these are allegedly educated people making claims with no basis whatsoever in reality.

 

[chelseagle]

Why does Big Pharma always cop it for wanting to make money? Why doesn't Big Crystal or Big Goji Berry?

 

[Cap]

Why does Big Pharma always cop it for wanting to make money? Why doesn't Big Crystal or Big Goji Berry?

or individuals

you can bet your bottom dollar no one on bigfooty works for free.

 

[chelseagle]

or individuals

you can bet your bottom dollar no one on bigfooty works for free.

I meant more that those who are anti-vacc are often selling holistic medicines.

 

[Chief]

I never get Flu shots, I figure at my age my immunity has built up sufficiently, I haven't had the flu for years.

That is entirely the opposite of fact.

I've never had influenza, and my vaccinations are haphazard. But you don't 'build up' an immunity to new strains from old strains.

If this 'build up' occurred the elderly would be almost influenza proof. They aren't - they're a high risk group.

 

[Chief]

Fair enough points above, I was merely pointing out an example of one person that my partner knows who walked into a docs with a normal daughter and walked out with a daughter with an immediate change in behaviour.

I can guarantee you that this is not what happened.

 

[kickazz]

Some further reading in The Converstaion about this topic, it deals specifically with some issues raised ITT as well: Six myths about vaccination

 

[TheMase]

I can guarantee you that this is not what happened.

I am sorry but that is an absolutely ridiculous thing to say. You cannot guarantee anything. Bodies have adverse reactions to all sorts of things, and it is plausible a child could have such a reaction without claiming it is widespread or common.

As for your comment above about the flu shot, if as you say an old strain does not build up an immunity with a new stain, is the flu shut not redundant considering it is based on the strain from the previous year?

 

[Chief]

I am sorry but that is an absolutely ridiculous thing to say. You cannot guarantee anything. Bodies have adverse reactions to all sorts of things, and it is plausible a child could have such a reaction without claiming it is widespread or common.

There has never been any evidence linking vaccination with autism.

The study that was run with by the press was fraudulent.

Purposefully designed to deceive the public for private financial gain.

Your friend is simply looking for a reason for her family's misfortune.

While we are here, there are some things that don't give a person autism:

* intercessional prayer,
* alignments of stars and planets,
* crystals,
* demonic possesion,
* homeopathy.

From kickazz post above:

Further evidence comes from a recently published exhaustive review examining 12,000 research articles covering eight different vaccines which also concluded there was no link between vaccines and autism.

Yet the myth persists and probably for several reasons, one being that the time of diagnosis for autism coincides with kids receiving several vaccinations and also, we currently don’t know what causes autism. But we do know what doesn’t, and that’s vaccines.

I sincerely hope that satisfies your doubts because this myth is responsible for the death and maiming of innocent kids.

Andrew Wakefield should be in prison.

As for your comment above about the flu shot, if as you say an old strain does not build up an immunity with a new stain, is the flu shut not redundant considering it is based on the strain from the previous year?

Again, no. At least not in the way you mean:

Each year, the seasonal influenza vaccine contains three influenza viruses — one influenza A (H3N2) virus, one seasonal influenza A (H1N1) virus, and one influenza B virus. The influenza viruses in the seasonal flu vaccine are selected each year based on surveillance-based forecasts about what viruses are most likely to cause illness in the coming season. Therefore, each year’s seasonal flu vaccine is designed to protect against the influenza viruses expected to cause disease during the upcoming influenza season.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/vaccination/virusqa.htm

You could be unlucky and cop a dose of something you aren't vaccinated against.

Or you could skip vaccination, catch the expected virus, feel few effects and it might even mutate into something the vaccine is less effective against. This is one of those reasons that people relying on herd immunity are being selfish: your child might become a host to a new mutation and infect vaccinated children.

The woman in Monbulk in the OP is mentally unbalanced and is happy to risk the health of her children, and others they come into contact with, in service to her delusions.

Your partner's friend is understandably looking for something to blame her child's condition on but she is wide of the mark.

 

[Pie eyed]

unfortunately we don't have a vaccine for stupidity.

Obviously, from your post....

 

[Pie eyed]

Fair enough points above, I was merely pointing out an example of one person that my partner knows who walked into a docs with a normal daughter and walked out with a daughter with an immediate change in behaviour.

Allergies was pointing out only one thing, but you do make a good point about all the other stuff we consume that is killing us.

I do find it interesting that so many trust pharmaceutical organisations who make money from you being sick. They don't make money by limiting your return for new business. And I would have thought the so called credible medical studies would be heavily sponsored by these organisations themselves a lot of the time.

I would be looking to the mother if this is the case....
Did she give her child some new age panacea?
Did she give her child some topical rememdy?
If anyone is looking to pass off blame it's your friend.
Either that or she is one of those hysterical "over protectors".

 

[Samsara]

Related to this, I read this recently which was interesting. There have been several cases lately where courts have awarded families compensation which is interesting. I read some research by an immunologist recently where he stated that it was the measles part of the MMR vaccine that contributed (not caused) autism.

There's certainly no evidence to suggest causation but I reckon for some individuals it is a contributing factor, along with many other potential factors both genetic and environmental.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-son-developed-autism-result-MMR-vaccine.html

 

[MrCharisma]

Related to this, I read this recently which was interesting. There have been several cases lately where courts have awarded families compensation which is interesting. I read some research by an immunologist recently where he stated that it was the measles part of the MMR vaccine that contributed (not caused) autism.

There's certainly no evidence to suggest causation but I reckon for some individuals it is a contributing factor, along with many other potential factors both genetic and environmental.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-son-developed-autism-result-MMR-vaccine.html

I read a story about a little girl who died in a car accident from a "blunt-force injury caused by her seatbelt". You are 10 times more likely to die in a motor vehicle accident if not wearing a seatbelt . Now I'm not saying we should ban all seatbelts , but it was definitely a contributing factor in her death.

 

[Copernicus]

******* campaignerbags.

 

[nicky]

Related to this, I read this recently which was interesting. There have been several cases lately where courts have awarded families compensation which is interesting. I read some research by an immunologist recently where he stated that it was the measles part of the MMR vaccine that contributed (not caused) autism.

There's certainly no evidence to suggest causation but I reckon for some individuals it is a contributing factor, along with many other potential factors both genetic and environmental.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-son-developed-autism-result-MMR-vaccine.html

I've spent alot of time watching congressional hearings (from the US) on vaccines causing autism and there aren't conclusive studies either way. The extremists from both sides of the argument (the anti vaccs group and posters in this thread) are as bad as each other.

 

[rowie343]

Thimerosal is known to cause brain impairment. Aluminium is a neurotoxin.