List Mgmt. 2013 Draft Discussion

[TheLastEmperor]

Given Aish's year, I would put him in the same category as Bontempelli in terms of risk. Surprisingly Aish won under 18 AA honours cos when you look at his year as a whole he showed he doesn't get a lot of the footy and struggles to win it himself. Then there are concerns over his ability to gain weight and the go-home factor must come into consideration a little. Aish has held his status off a couple of years of being the protege and the excuse of coming back from injury.

Both Aish and Bontempelli are risks however both the classiest in the draft and I reckon a club like yourselves with a lot of young talent on your list has the ability to take a bit of a risk considering the upside of those players is enormous. I reckon the decision will/has come down to Bontempelli being a local lad which limits the longterm risk.

 

[TBOW]

196cm takes him well into KPP player land - I can't recall ever seeing a 6'6" midfielder.

If his body ever catches up to his head he'll be 200+

 

[doggies ftw]

Not bad, I'm just not sure if he's what we need really at all.



Well that's just wrong. From "professional journalists" they should at least get their facts right.

Agree that he doesn't really sound like he fits our needs but I don't think Macca and the recruiters would have any intentions of him becoming a starting mid, we probably have a specific position in mind for him and it looks like Macca is pretty keen on filling the pockets/flanks mostly with guys who were mids as a junior (just because they were hard at it and could win their own ball pretty much) and as long as they have a bit more to their game then I'm definitely cool with this. I think its the way to go, you can have as many exciting flashy players who can pull goals out of their asses as you want but more often than not the guy who is a "fierce competitor who can win his own ball" will win out in a contest. Guys like Darley, Prudden, Pearce, etc are in a similar boat, best thing about it is they can all spend time in the midfield when needed. Macca really knows what he's doing

 

[Wizard17]

Agree that he doesn't really sound like he fits our needs but I don't think Macca and the recruiters would have any intentions of him becoming a starting mid, we probably have a specific position in mind for him and it looks like Macca is pretty keen on filling the pockets/flanks mostly with guys who were mids as a junior (just because they were hard at it and could win their own ball pretty much) and as long as they have a bit more to their game then I'm definitely cool with this. I think its the way to go, you can have as many exciting flashy players who can pull goals out of their asses as you want but more often than not the guy who is a "fierce competitor and can win his own ball" will win out in a contest.

"By the end of the year he was having an impact on the ground wherever he played - as a small defender, a small forward or [rolling] through the midfield.

Your right about the pockets I believe.

 

[doggies ftw]

"By the end of the year he was having an impact on the ground wherever he played - as a small defender, a small forward or [rolling] through the midfield.

Your right about the pockets I believe.

Yeah, I haven't actually read the article so I'll do that now but I really like the sound of him so far. Can play back, forward and through the midfield, fierce competitor, hard at the ball but also has good skills. Geez he's definitely a macca pick if I've ever seen one!

EDIT: Just read it, geez he is only 67 kilos and his birthday is on December 31st! People can say that a late birthday doesn't matter as much as they like but this kid would be almost a full year younger than some of the other guys, surely that makes a difference. Sounds like he has a terrific attitude and love the fact that he is described as "fearless" and "ferocious" too. Hopefully Norf don't pick him at 47 and he's available at 60.

 

[AjsGuns]

Also why is there so much love for Simon Dalrymple? Lets look at our first rounders from the last 4 years...

2009: Christian Howard, well im not even going to go there but Menzel (looked to be an amazing prospect before injuries)/Fyfe/Carlisle were all available and went around here..Howard is lucky to be on our list. Very, very bad pick.

2010: Everyone knew and everyone would of taken Wallis and Libba with our first and second rounder including my 85 year old Grandma, so whether this worked out or failed it can't really be attributed to Dalrymple. Good picks which were going to happen regardless if Dalrymple or my Grandma were in charge. If Wallis/Libba didn't work out i can't see anyone wanting Dalrymples head.

2011: Clay Smith, I love Smith and i think everyone does so it clouds peoples judgements and people generally over rate there own but his just a best 22 player, never going to become a star. Decent/Average pick nothing special.

2012: Macrae and Stringer! now these guys look good right? and im very happy we got them on our list but lets look at the top 10 of 2012:
1. Whitfield
2. O'Rourke
3. Plowman
4. Toumpas
5. Stringer
6. Macrae
7. Wines
8. Mayes
9. Vlastuin
10. Daniher
All of them look pretty good besides maybe Plowman (although i have NFI how his going), while Macrae and Stringer look the goods its way to early to tell who will become the best from those guys, FWIW i had picks 5+6 in the 2012 Phantom Draft on our board and took Grundy and Mayes which just adds to my argument there looks like there is ALOT of players who will become very good from this draft. Seem like good picks by Dalrymple but too early to make a fair judgement on.

Would say based on first rounders his a below average recruiter at best. He does have a nice record with other picks though. I personally think his OK but some of you guys act like his the second coming of Jesus.

 

[Wizard17]

EDIT: Just read it, geez he is only 67 kilos and his birthday is on December 31st! People can say that a late birthday doesn't matter as much as they like but this kid would be almost a full year younger than some of the other guys, surely that makes a difference. Sounds like he has a terrific attitude and love the fact that he is described as "fearless" and "ferocious" too. Hopefully Norf don't pick him at 47 and he's available at 60.

We go pretty well at picking guys who are light but become a best 22 player lately so hopefully it is the same story again.

 

[timtamWB]

Also why is there so much love for Simon Dalrymple? Lets look at our first rounders from the last 4 years...

2009: Christian Howard, well im not even going to go there but Menzel (looked to be an amazing prospect before injuries)/Fyfe/Carlisle were all available and went around here..Howard is lucky to be on our list. Very, very bad pick.

2010: Everyone knew and everyone would of taken Wallis and Libba with our first and second rounder including my 85 year old Grandma, so whether this worked out or failed it can't really be attributed to Dalrymple. Good picks which were going to happen regardless if Dalrymple or my Grandma were in charge. If Wallis/Libba didn't work out i can't see anyone wanting Dalrymples head.

2011: Clay Smith, I love Smith and i think everyone does so it clouds peoples judgements and people generally over rate there own but his just a best 22 player, never going to become a star. Decent/Average pick nothing special.

2012: Macrae and Stringer! now these guys look good right? and im very happy we got them on our list but lets look at the top 10 of 2012:

We can rate him on 3 drafts, due to 2010 having our two F/S players. 2009 was a complete and utter bust. Macrae and Stringer look VERY good, but too early to tell. Smith is best 22, a great player that is constantly underrated and was definitely the best available pick left. These were the players picked after Smith in 2011:
Kavanagh
Crozier
Bootsma (lol mouth breather)
Newman
Schade
Ross
Elton
Kerridge
Mcinnes
Forster
Yeo
Merrett
Hamling
Brad Hill
Kersten
Markworth
Taggert
Newnes
Jordan Kelly

I wouldn't want any one of those over Smith. So I would say Dalrymple got the best available and nailed it as much as he could in that 2011 draft.

 

[Dav1d]

Why. Must. We. Do. This. ?

 

[yebiga]

I think someone is being a bit hasty on calling Clay Smith decent/average
Before his injury last year, I thought he was really stepping up, finding his feet and using his body in quite a destructive way. The kicking improved too. Lets just see how average he is in 2014 as I expect he will become an important ingredient in a versatile midfield.

As for Stringer and Macrae, of the other 8 top ten picks, given the opportunity, I would not be swapping either. Vlastuin and Wines had better years but I think our boys showed enough to suggest they can be better. Vlastuin and Wines had bodies which were more advanced for AFL so it is no surprise they performed immediately. Macrae had some body building to do and Stringer was way back on fitness because of his injury.

Mayes looks very decent too but from what I have seen our boys have more upside.

Having said that, I believe GWS may already be regretting some of their picks from last year.

 

[AjsGuns]

We can rate him on 3 drafts, due to 2010 having our two F/S players. 2009 was a complete and utter bust. Macrae and Stringer look VERY good, but too early to tell. Smith is best 22, a great player that is constantly underrated and was definitely the best available pick left. These were the players picked after Smith in 2011:
Kavanagh
Crozier
Bootsma (lol mouth breather)
Newman
Schade
Ross
Elton
Kerridge
Mcinnes
Forster
Yeo
Merrett
Hamling
Brad Hill
Kersten
Markworth
Taggert
Newnes
Jordan Kelly

I wouldn't want any one of those over Smith. So I would say Dalrymple got the best available and nailed it as much as he could in that 2011 draft.

Even so lets call Smith a "success"
2009: Howard - Fail
2011: Smith - Sucess
2012: Stringer/Macrae - Way to early to call this one either way i went Grundy/Mayes in the BF phantom for our picks and im just some BF smuck which shows there was alot of good players and its too early to call.

At best he has a 50/50 hit rate with first rounders and thats if you want to call Smith a success which many don't. Although i do agree he was probably the best player there.

I just don't understand how so many people have faith in him is all. Anyways it is what it is, hopefully he nails pick 4 this year.

 

[doggies ftw]

I think someone is being a bit hasty on calling Clay Smith decent/average
Before his injury last year, I thought he was really stepping up, finding his feet and using his body in quite a destructive way. The kicking improved too. Lets just see how average he is in 2014 as I expect he will become an important ingredient in a versatile midfield.

As for Stringer and Macrae, of the other 8 top ten picks, given the opportunity, I would not be swapping either. Vlastuin and Wines had better years but I think our boys showed enough to suggest they can be better. Vlastuin and Wines had bodies which were more advanced for AFL so it is no surprise they performed immediately. Macrae had some body building to do and Stringer was way back on fitness because of his injury.

Mayes looks very decent too but from what I have seen our boys have more upside.

Having said that, I believe GWS may already be regretting some of their picks from last year.

Yeah watching Clay through the nab cup I thought he was ready to explode, not long now and I think he will (reckon he would have had a massive breakout year in 2014 if it wasn't for the knee) just such a beast around the ball and has a lot more to his game than that too, really think people will be surprised with how good he becomes.

Recruiters just can't win, like people call the 2009 draft a complete failure (don't get me wrong thats okay to say ) but then when they do pick good players people say "oh yeah that was the obvious choice though" also lol at the "lets leave out the later rounds of the draft for now" why? why would you leave out the late picks that he has nailed that are a LOT harder to pick than a first rounder? I'd rather a recruiter that might stuff up the odd first rounder taking a risk but also nails a lot of his later picks than a recruiter who picks the safe option in the first round every time but then can't get a good player after pick 30.

 

[timtamWB]

Even so lets call Smith a "success"
2009: Howard - Fail
2011: Smith - "Sucess"
2012: Stringer/Macrae - Way to early to call this one either way, I still think the 2 i picked and I'm just some BF smuck have shown more.

At best he has a 50/50 hit rate with first rounders and thats if you want to call Smith a success which many don't. Although i do agree he was probably the best player there.

As far as Stringer and Macrae go, Wines showed the most out of the 2013 draftees. Would you swatch one of Stringer or Macrae for him? It's not a race, it's a marathon. And Stringer and Macrae are pacing themselves well. I wouldn't be unhappy with Grundy/Mayes, but I wouldn't swap Stringer/Macrae for them personally.


If Smith was the best player there, then how is he not a success for Dalrymple? Do you want Dalrymple to magically go back and change it so we have pick 1 instead?

 

[True Dog]

Even so lets call Smith a "success"
2009: Howard - Fail
2011: Smith - "Sucess"
2012: Stringer/Macrae - Way to early to call this one either way

At best he has a 50/50 hit rate with first rounders and thats if you want to call Smith a success which many don't. Although i do agree he was probably the best player there.

I just don't understand how so many people have faith in him is all.

We've (the club and it's resources) have come a long way in this space, we now pay JMAC to look after our list and manage the in's and out's for today, tomorrow and in five years time. We have a coach who from day one wanted to know what our recruiting guidelines and polices were and was shocked when he found we had a dart board with players faces on it and he quickly placed the non negotiables for us going forward.. We have a CEO who played at the highest level and is part of the list management committee and actively involved.... The strengths and weakness of all the players, the needs and wants of our list, playing positions etc will have all been discussed, and by people slightly more qualified than most of us (noticed I said slightly)... So when Dalrymple calls out a name on Thursday (The Bergman hopefully) you can rest assure a lot more thought, research and experience went into the decision than went into the Howard selection in his first draft..

 

[AjsGuns]

As far as Stringer and Macrae go, Wines showed the most out of the 2013 draftees. Would you swatch one of Stringer or Macrae for him? It's not a race, it's a marathon. And Stringer and Macrae are pacing themselves well. I wouldn't be unhappy with Grundy/Mayes, but I wouldn't swap Stringer/Macrae for them personally.

I would keep Stringer/Macrae and I'm very happy we got them (as i said) however im sure Port wouldn't swap Wines for Stringer or Macrae, Brisbane wouldn't swap Mayes for Stringer/Macrae, Collingwood wouldn't swap Grundy for Stringer/Mayes and so on.. either way that draft is too early to call imo. I can't say who will be the better combo out of Grundy/Mayes vs Stringer/Macrae my point was though there seems to be alot of promise from that draft and its too early to give him a pass mark. ATM it would seem almost every club with a top 10 pick (besides GWS) have got it right, I'm sure in 5 years time that won't be the case.

 

[immortalmike]

There's two things I've read far too much on this board.

1) "Clay Smith is/will be average/best 22 player." Firstly he wasn't a top 10 pick, he was pick ****ing 17 in a compromised draft. Not only that, the kid is barely 20, has played in almost every game he was available for and has been best on in a few. In what language is that average?

2)"Player X that we are looking at drafting is not what we need." What annoys me is that this is coming from posters I botrh like and respect. Do you honestly think that now with a list manager, a head recruiter and a head coach, we wouldn't be recruiting to a model? If we are looking at a player you can bet your arse that he fits in with our gameplan!

 

[yebiga]

After viewing the latest highlight reel of Bontempelli I can understand why he is being rated highly

But before we pick him, I want everyone to have another look at Kolodjashjis left foot

Is it my imagination or does time stop and music break out when he uses that foot? Can anyone else see and hear it?
It is a work of art, the shape, the weight, the distance, the drop. It reminds me of Franz (the kaiser) Beckenbaur one of the finest soccer players of all time: he could drop the soccer ball on a moving dime from 50 meters.
Does anyone else see it, ooh it's heavenly, it defies physics and it could all be ours.

 

[AjsGuns]

After viewing the latest highlight reel of Bontempelli I can understand why he is being rated highly

But before we pick him, I want everyone to have another look at Kolodjashjis left foot

Is it my imagination or does time stop and music break out when he uses that foot? Can anyone else see and hear it?
It is a work of art, the shape, the weight, the distance, the drop. It reminds me of Franz (the kaiser) Beckenbaur one of the finest soccer players of all time: he could drop the soccer ball on a moving dime from 50 meters.
Does anyone else see it, ooh it's heavenly, it defies physics and it could all be ours.

KK will be a steal for GC, gun.

 

[yebiga]

Yes but would GWS, if given the chance, change their selections of O'Rourke and Plowman?
What about Melbourne and Toumpas?

 

[timtamWB]

Yes but would GWS, if given the chance, change their selections of O'Rourke and Plowman?
What about Melbourne and Toumpas?

GWS would definitely change Plowman to Grundy, if they don't admit that then SOS has got them all brainwashed. Toumpas will come good, he was never going to have much of an impact first year. O'Rourke injured.

 

[AjsGuns]

Yes but would GWS, if given the chance, change their selections of O'Rourke and Plowman?
What about Melbourne and Toumpas?

I think GWS made some bad choices personally and they are the one team who got it wrong from the first 10 picks, I think they would keep O'Rourke to be honest but change their Plowman pick.

I still think Melbourne would be happy with Toumpas and wouldn't change their decision given the chance, like Timtam said its a marathon not a race.

 

[38Rockliff38]

Yes but would GWS, if given the chance, change their selections of O'Rourke and Plowman?
What about Melbourne and Toumpas?

GWS would change Plowman for Grundy in a heartbeat. Melbourne would swap Toumpas for Wines/Mayes I reckon.

 

[AjsGuns]

GWS would definitely change Plowman to Grundy, if they don't admit that then SOS has got them all brainwashed. Toumpas will come good, he was never going to have much of an impact first year. O'Rourke injured.

Beat me to it!

 

[Anja_Nees]

We can rate him on 3 drafts, due to 2010 having our two F/S players. 2009 was a complete and utter bust. Macrae and Stringer look VERY good, but too early to tell. Smith is best 22, a great player that is constantly underrated and was definitely the best available pick left. These were the players picked after Smith in 2011:
Kavanagh
Crozier
Bootsma (lol mouth breather)
Newman
Schade
Ross
Elton
Kerridge
Mcinnes
Forster
Yeo
Merrett
Hamling
Brad Hill
Kersten
Markworth
Taggert
Newnes
Jordan Kelly

I wouldn't want any one of those over Smith. So I would say Dalrymple got the best available and nailed it as much as he could in that 2011 draft.

I was going to say this. He did the best he could at that pick. 2009 was a flop but it was his first draft. I spoke to a recruiter from another club a year or so after that draft and he thought we had done quite well so it just goes to show how subjective the whole thing is. Howard looked pretty good at times in his second/third seasons.Tutt may yet become a solid player I suppose.

Dalrymple has done pretty well in the rookie draft too, with Dahlhaus a gun, Campbell looking solid and Jong showing signs outside of time spent on the sidelines. Dickson (and perhaps Campbell) may have been given a go because of the Bombers affiliation but perhaps he deserves some credit for these as well.

Jury is certainly out but he isn't a dud recruiter. He's picked some solid players with some not-so-great picks and appears to have done well with the early ones outside of 2009. I think he's worth persisting with.

 

[doggies ftw]

Wines was just a no brainer for Melbourne to be honest, I'm a big fan of Toumpas (I wanted him at pick 5 over anyone last year) but still Wines was just the obvious choice.