Opinion The Rebuild Thread

[rp84]

Agree. Who knows, if we can recruit wisely over the next 2/3 years and secure a couple of quality KPP, get lucky with a couple of Father-Son picks (eg. Silvagni or Bradley) and combine it with half of our current list we might have the basis of a decent list.

It might be wishful thinking but looking back at Geelong and the Hawks of the early to mid 2000's it seems they were able to recruit a core of quality players in a 4-5 year period with good draft picks, smart recruiting and in Geelong's case some great Father-Son pickups with Ablett and Scarlett, that set the teams up nicely.

Yep. We need to make the harsh calls. Stockpile first round picks and young talent.

Good players will need to go. Get value while its there.
Walker comes to mind. A good player. Would be a great addition for a team on the cusp. Worth a first rounder at least.

Gibbs will land us an end of first round pick too.
Could give us pick 1 or 2, 12 and 19 in the first round. Add to that score a few second round picks.

There are other examples on the list too.

 

[AlecDuncan]

The Saints are not really our comparison.

My point was that today they're in exactly the same position as we are, despite having a side that was very competitive for about six or seven years.

You could argue we should have stayed higher for longer, but as someone once said, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you want. We did what we could with what we had. The alternative was to trade out players at their peak like Waite, keep JK instead of Judd, and put up with what we're experiencing now. There's no guarantee that would have worked either. You can make perfect decisions and still have fate bat you around like a cat's toy.

 

[AlecDuncan]

Walker comes to mind. A good player. Would be a great addition for a team on the cusp. Worth a first rounder at least.

No-one's going to give a first round pick for someone who turns 29 next year. Not even Vossy. Again.

 

[rp84]

The Saints are not really our comparison. They made it to grand finals and were genuine flag contenders and they did it on the back of players recruited late 90s to early 00s. Our window was supposed to open up on the back of players recruited a few years after that. When our window was supposed to be similarly opened, we had already started to decline. We certainly weren't due to fall now.

It is a reality but harder to accept given the Saints had a realistic shot and after years of rebuilding, we never got that shot and now we have to do it all again.

Thats right. The sinners were an excellent team.

 

[rp84]

No-one's going to give a first round pick for someone who turns 29 next year. Not even Vossy.

It would be an end of first round pick or early second from a good team. He is a very good player that can be a matchwinner for years to come. I dont think its unreasonable ro expect pick15-20

 

[rp84]

Walker woud slot in well with the expansion teams for 3-4 years too. They dont need another pick 8-12

 

[Sound]

I still find it worrying how Luke Williams left the recruiting department only 6 months after joining. Not poached by another club, just quit.

This.

He resigned prior to the national draft as well - alarming.

He was not poached, however, Richmond took him on after he left us.

Williams spent 14 at the cats. He was involved in building a list that has seen 3 flags and countless top 4 finishes since 2007.
The man helped build one of the great modern football dynasties.

Williams must have been truly appalled by the workings in our recruitment department to leave on the eve of the draft.

Would love to know the specifics as to why he left.

It would help our club if he could come out and name and shame people within our club - a man with a 14 year talent manager tenure at the cats on his CV can't be wrong.

 

[thylacine60]

We have some solid players who, if we rediscover pride, passion and work rate, can lift us right back up the ladder after a year of bottoming out as West Coast did in 2010.

This is not a 2002-2007 list. This is a self serving, confused, lazy list with a few glaring holes in it. We have the nucleus of a pretty good 18 if they are unified. We need some brutal honesty. Identify the fractures and move them on, and maybe the others will talk and work together again.

great work there, ODN

 

[GoBlues!]

Our window was supposed to open up on the back of players recruited a few years after that. When our window was supposed to be similarly opened, we had already started to decline. We certainly weren't due to fall now.

TODN, our window may have been open but someone left the flyscreen on.

 

[Silvagnis]

This.

He resigned prior to the national draft as well - alarming.

He was not poached, however, Richmond took him on after he left us.

Williams spent 14 at the cats. He was involved in building a list that has seen 3 flags and countless top 4 finishes since 2007.
The man helped build one of the great modern football dynasties.

Williams must have been truly appalled by the workings in our recruitment department to leave on the eve of the draft.

Would love to know the specifics as to why he left.

It would help our club if he could come out and name and shame people within our club - a man with a 14 year talent manager tenure at the cats on his CV can't be wrong.

Why does Williams get a pass and forgiven because he was part of Geelong's recruitment team?

Perhaps Williams was poached with Carlton finding out before the draft.

Geelong's development, culture and coaching is stronger than every other team.

Rogers doesn't appear to have made poor selections in his two drafts.

Naming and shaming people is what that knob Mathieson would do.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

My point was that today they're in exactly the same position as we are, despite having a side that was very competitive for about six or seven years.

You could argue we should have stayed higher for longer, but as someone once said, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you want. We did what we could with what we had. The alternative was to trade out players at their peak like Waite, keep JK instead of Judd, and put up with what we're experiencing now. There's no guarantee that would have worked either. You can make perfect decisions and still have fate bat you around like a cat's toy.

The issue is that we had faith back then and the people requiring our faith made assurances that did not come to fruition. Now we are similarly being asked to have faith to do it all over again. I still have not seen a review, I still have nothing but faith telling me that this time will be any different.

I'm not sure how a team can rise on the basis of trading for the then best player in the game, and 3 number one draft picks, start making finals, start winning finals, then decline so rapidly as though they don't want to be there. Something is broken, and motherhood statements might appease the casual masses, but they are making me quite cynical. I don't know what the problem is, but I know there is one and I don't want us to be standing at a fork in the road, not knowing which way to go and tossing a coin. I don't want to strip everything back and start a 5-10 year rebuild via the draft because at least we get the team the coach wants. I want to fix most of what we already have.

Shake things up now and see who responds. I liked Walker's words post-match. He's frustrated and impatient. Sums up where the supporters are at.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Naming and shaming people is what that knob Mathieson would do.

Which he did last night. Called out Murphy for not being a leader and almost spat out Gibbs' name.

 

[Graffy4242]

We let Robert Harvey go to St Kilda (then Collingwood), yet we keep a known spud like John Barker on our coaching panel.

Top work Carlton. Top work.

What's even worse, we let both Alan Richardson and Gavin Brown leave. They were by far our best Assistants.

 

[Dominator_7]

I don't know what will happen, but we all know what SHOULD happen...
We not only need a rebuild of our playing list, we need a rebuilding of the Club Port Adelaide post Primus style.

Short term:

- Put Kreuzer away for the rest of 2014 and get him 100 per cent ready for 2015 onwards. Enough with the mismanagement of his injuries

- Play the kids like Cripps, Buckley, Menzel, Giles, Holman, Temay.... Lets see what they ve got. Better them then the same old crap in Robbo, Curnow, Cachia, Watson, Bootsma etc.

Long term:

- Tell any other player that they re free to go if they don't want to be here. No more players sooking it up when they re dropped or not getting a game.

- Cut our losses and let Gibbs go.... He's been a typical 'Waiting for Godot' player, we ve been forever waiting for him to step up to A Grade status, but he prefers his soft outside role. Not a good example. See ya. We ll take the AFL compo, which I think is a pick directly after ours in the Draft. As we ll probably finish 10th at best, losing Gibbs + our Pick = two Top 10 picks.

We need an Independent Review, with all resulting recommendations to be acted upon.

- Will not sack MM as this ll cost upwards of 1 mil, and this would be dead money, on top of the money we re going to lose this year due to low membership sales, crowds etc. Keep him til the end of his contract and then maybe go for Clarkson. If hes not available, thorough interviewing and search for suitable replacement.

- Surely the review would result in a new Board, new President, new CEO, We need a clean break from the Mathiesons, Pratts etc.

- Revamped Recruiting / List Management

- Murphy to step down as Captain. Love the kid, especially when at his best, but just not cutting it as Captain.

- Revamped Footy Department.

- Review of the Medical Injury Management staff. Too much mismangemnt of players the last few years (Laidler, Kreuzer, Judd, Carrots etc)

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

If you are going to rebuild, there is no point in replacing Malthouse. The mistake was in recruiting Malthouse to put the icing on Ratten's cake, and regardless of subsequent revision, this is exactly how it was sold to us. Mick needs to mould players that know no other way but his way. Some of our guys were too far gone as far as teaching them to be defensive first but maintain their attacking flair. We've ended up with neither from them. Mick is probably the man for the rebuild. It just needed to be sold as such when he came even though nobody would have believed it. Just another two seasons of stagnation and going backwards while others get stronger. We now have to wait for the 2014/15/16 drafts and a couple of years to start coming on.

 

[Silvagnis]

Which he did last night. Called out Murphy for not being a leader and almost spat out Gibbs' name.

Rebuild the board thread.

Don't care one iota for Mathieson and his clique. He's trying to throw his weight around in regards to recruiting. And to possibly install LoGuidice as President. A faceless board member who has been there since 2010. Would love to know if LoGuidice has contributed to the Finance, Audit & Risk sub-committee and Club Member Venues sub-committee. Areas where we're not strong. Also responsible for Judd's investment that didn't work out.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/judds-secret-pokies-stake-20120502-1xzi6.html

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Rebuild the board thread.

Don't care one iota for Mathieson and his clique. He's trying to throw his weight around in regards to recruiting. And to possibly install LoGuidice as President. A faceless board member who has been there since 2010. Would love to know if LoGuidice has contributed to the Finance, Audit & Risk sub-committee and Club Member Venues sub-committee. Areas where we're not strong. Also responsible for Judd's investment that didn't work out.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/judds-secret-pokies-stake-20120502-1xzi6.html

I received a PM that LoGuidice was already in and it would be taking place within a month. Of the two non-inspiring options, he was my least inspiring.

 

[ShanDog]

I firmly believe the problems with our club all stem from the culture, both on-field (player attitudes, leadership and work ethic) and off-field (boys club, wanting quick fixes, over-administered).

It's an easily identifiable problem, but one that is terribly difficult to fix. I won't even bother trying to say how I think it should be done, other than to say that unless someone has the right character, attitude and work ethic, they should have nothing to do with the football club going forward. Whether they are a board member, water carrier or playing off the half-forward flank it doesn't matter. Nothing ruins a club or organisation quicker than poor culture. Those people need to be shown the door and the club needs to assess every aspect of itself to make some tough calls about its future and the future of those within it.

 

[mediumsizered]

Having listened to Kernahan yesterday , Mckay today , and Swann numerous times in the past on radio , its clear this is where the problem starts .

These guys either
A : Have no bloody idea what makes / how to run , a competitive AFL club

Or more alarmingly

B: Are trying desperately to cover thier own arses and save themselves all at the clubs expense .

Name the last decision these guys got right ??
They have cruelled the club at every turn !!
Thier performance in running the club is on the table for all to see !!

I hate Tim Watsons guts !! ...
But he is right when he states ... the fish rots at the head first !!

I'm confused as to what you believe Kernahan, McKay & Swann are trying to save themselves from.

Kernahan has already announced he is stepping down & the legacy he leaves the club cannot be diminished by the poor performances of a group of players who don't share the same passion for the club that Sticks does. He does not have to save himself from anything.

McKay is another Carlton person whose passion for the club runs deeper than many of our players & is still relatively new to the role he is in. Some Carlton supporters want to pin the blame on McKay for many of the errors of his predecessor (Icke). At the end of the day McKay could walk from the club tomorrow & be as well off, if not better off, elsewhere. He also does not have to save himself from anything.

Swann is a football administrator with plenty of runs on the board having overseen the financial rescue of the Williamstown Football Club in the '90s, the Collingwood Football Club in the '00s & of course our football club over the last half a dozen years. He could walk tomorrow & he would be offered a high salary elsewhere straight away & he would leave with the club in a sounder financial position than it has been since the mid '90s. He also has nothing to save himself from.

FWIW, when Tim Watson talks about the fish rotting at the head first, he should have a look closer to home. It should be no surprise that Essendope cheated under the recent watch of Evans & Hird. The club has a history of cheating when those family names have been involved with the club at a high level.

 

[thylacine60]

Makes sense, our ex-captain is a fake too.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

The mixed messages from Mick are a major concern. Before round 1 he said "we are approaching 11 o'clock..." in relation to the premiership window. Apparently he has already asked the board for an extension, citing we need to rebuild the playing list - telling them some two weeks ago that the talent on the list is simply not there. That meeting was two weeks after the round 1 game.

He says "I'm loathe to believe we can dish that up again" post essendon. What exactly does scoring 58 points against Melbourne constitute?

Then's there's the McKay comments which contracted Mick's comments or vice versa.

I respect MM but I don't like feeling like im being fed lies. I'm a full member and its disrespectful.

If true, at least he has the pride and determination to see it through. I suspect he'd even do it on a reduced contract.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

A Lions supporter's first post is on the Carlton board discussing a troll from Essendon?

And yet here we are.

 

[thylacine60]

Tomlinson is out of favour with the Giants atm. What would it take to get him over the line. Definitely not a first rounder. Garlett?

Bring it. We can develop any player into a solid VFL prospect.

 

[Erko Blue]

We need a totally different mentality in many areas.

A lot of things need to change, I don't know how the club work well enough to offer solutions.

However, the first thing I would do is try to get Darren Lehman on a semi regular basis to galvanise the club.

 

[mikeythemoocow]

We should get Fergie over for a stint, some of our players could definately use his hair dryer treatment