Unofficial Preview Rd 15: Saints Vs Tigers - Saturday @Etihad Stadium/2:10pm (AEST)

[Plugger35]

Good to see Stanley, Montagna and Dunstan back and Lenny not out injured (for now anyway). Will be our strongest midfield for a while.

Bad to see no Hickey, Fisher or Schneider but I can understand giving them another week in the VFL after long injury layoffs. Also would have liked to have seen Lee stay in the team with Stanley and Riewoldt to see how that forward set up worked, instead we have Simpkin named at full forward which I don't understand as he's not a key forward.

 

[Mowman]

Geez reading this bitching pisses me off, what would you guys know about selection?

Whoever disses Jones on here in my opinion know nothing about league football, have never played it at a reasonable standard and never will or are just armchair critics who love to highlight the negatives in everything.

As far as selection goes, why do we want to win games, so we can settle for mediocrity for the next 19 years?

How about those of you who constantly complain trying to be positive?

Know a shitload about footy and played a lot of footy Jones shouldn't be on our list next year

 

[Periphery]

Has Stanley at FF and Richo comments that Simpkin's forward pressure was good. Lee must not be applying enough pressure to keep his spot, it is the only thing I can think of.

 

[VDS66]

I think the point being made is that it's about loading your list with as many top recruits as you can... whilst you can. If you win too many games and finish up the ladder, then don't get a crack at the best talent pool... like GWS and GC did. Hence you end up mediocre in the future.

Like it or not, but this is the system we have to work with. Not only have we been up for a while, but then you have the GWS and GCS lovefest with compromised rafts.

Our recruiting window is open right here and right now, so I say let's make the most of it.... otherwise we will end up a mid table team for the next 10 years.

 

[saintsrfreak]

I think the point being made is that it's about loading your list with as many top recruits as you can... whilst you can. If you win too many games and finish up the ladder, then don't get a crack at the best talent pool... like GWS and GC did. Hence you end up mediocre in the future.

Like it or not, but this is the system we have to work with. Not only have we been up for a while, but then you have the GWS and GCS lovefest with compromised rafts.

Our recruiting window is open right here and right now, so I say let's make the most of it.... otherwise we will end up a mid table team for the next 10 years.

Regardless, we shouldn't be trying to lose. We don't need to, we're a bad team.

We're pretty much guaranteed a top 3 pick this year anyway, why not aim to win?

 

[sauce_head]

I might be in the minority but I am pretty happy with selection. Stanley for the backup ruck role better and Jones will take out Cotchin. Ray had to go for butchering the ball.

Probably not talk enough to call for Bruce, but not having him is my only doubt.

 

[Saint_Dos]

It is weird that if there was a week to drop Lee, it was last week. This week I thought he did alright with what he was presented with.

Dunnell has been getting ball and kicking goals at Sandy. Then in his AFL game he was absolutely dreadful; until 5 mins before he was subbed, he was on 0% efficiency including 2 kicks OOB, a handball onto the ground that put a teammate in trouble and 1 kick into the 50 that wasn't even within 30 metres of a Saints player. I just think he's not up to it at AFL level, it all just happens too quickly for him.

True. Its strange but because the year we had him as an elevated rookie (2012?) he looked really good. Strange that it can all disappear that quickly.
Would still like to see him get another look in before the end of the year

 

[Plugger35]

I could've told Richo last week we needed Stanley as a back up ruckman rather than Lee, don't know why they needed another game against West Coast to see that Lee wasn't up to it in that role.

Regardless, we shouldn't be trying to lose. We don't need to, we're a bad team.

We're pretty much guaranteed a top 3 pick this year anyway, why not aim to win?

Agree, we need a win and if we get pick 2 or pick 3 rather than pick 1 does it really matter? We'll get a gun youngster regardless.

 

[sauce_head]

Know a shitload about footy and played a lot of footy Jones shouldn't be on our list next year

Appreciate your position and Jones' kicking is typically woeful, even though it's much improved. That is his only, big, downside. Otherwise his work ethic is second to none which is not exactly a bad example to set.

 

[malevu]

Bring back Scott Watters

I'd second that. You might be joking. I'm not.

 

[Periphery]

Tom Lee hasn't done much since returning to the side so being dropped isn't that surprising but wish we'd give Lee, Stanley and Roo a few games together.

Yeah, but it would seem that the clubs focus on forward pressure makes it hard to fit them all in unless that 3rd tall can provide a decent level of pressure. Hopefully it is just a fitness thing with Lee and he improves either later in the year or over the preseason.

Regardless, we shouldn't be trying to lose. We don't need to, we're a bad team.

We're pretty much guaranteed a top 3 pick this year anyway, why not aim to win?

I don't see the selection decisions we are making as us trying to lose but more us trying to find how all of the pieces fit together with the plan and culture that Richo is trying to implement.

On top of not being very good, we just might not have the cattle at the moment to compete well or have players in positions they are 100% suited to. If we had McCartin/Wright in the team I highly doubt Simpkin would be playing up forward. Hopefully over the next few years this all changes, but it looks like it will take some time yet.

 

[Plugger35]

Appreciate your position and Jones' kicking is typically woeful, even though it's much improved. That is his only, big, downside. Otherwise his work ethic is second to none which is not exactly a bad example to set.

He did enough last week to keep his spot but he needs to keep playing well or we're better off giving his spot to a youngster.

 

[Saint_Dos]

Think the selections are about right to be honest. We needed a new backup ruck as Lee was next to useless there even if he had a reasonable game up forward. Ray has had a lot of it but his kicking has been poor lately. Murdoch could probably consider himself unlucky but we had to lose a slower mid to bring in Dunstan. Thought Jones was really good on weekend and deserves his spot for this week.

Obviously Richo has a mindset of how he wants us to be structuring up and with a big emphasis on fwd pressure as Milera and Simpkin were both quiet stat wise but he is persisting with them. And sticking with the two talls up forward as targets. Right or wrong at least its a structure.

Am happy to see a visible plan (even if it isn't 100% correct in my view). One thing we all need to consider is we only see game day and open trainings. We have no idea what some of these guys are going the rest of the time, the leadership they are offering and the little things they are contributing. Lets just back in the Saints and Richo's game plan. We all have our opinions on ins and outs but at this rate we are going to end up being like Richmond Supporters and we cant have that.

 

[Mowman]

Appreciate your position and Jones' kicking is typically woeful, even though it's much improved. That is his only, big, downside. Otherwise his work ethic is second to none which is not exactly a bad example to set.

Yep agree his work ethic is huge and I don't mean to sound disrespectful towards him but I think his time is up, his kicking hurts the team so much its not even close to AFL standard

 

[L_W_P]

You gotta admit its a little odd?
Jones /curren
Either lee or Stanley - never both?!

Jones is playing as a half forward. Curren lost his spot to Weller, not CJ.

How often have we played with 3 athletic forwards this year? Yes we went well with Maister but he and Lee are different types. Simpkin is being trialled as the 'pack buster' to see if he has any flexibility in his game.

It seems to be -

Curren v Weller
Lee v Stanley
Maister v Simpkin.

No issue with selection at all.

 

[sverik25]

Once again not really the changes I'd hoped for, but it does look to be one of our strongest teams in the last month or so.

Not sure what Murdoch had to do to keep his spot... would much rather see him in for Jones (I understand they're not like for like), who had a reasonable game last week but destroys our ball movement at the best of times and butchers it at the worst.

I'm glad that we now have a back up ruck, because Lee wasn't working in that role but it's a shame that Roo, Lee and Stanley weren't all named together. For whatever reason Richo must think that we can't have the three talls in together.

Oh well, as I said, far from our worst team in recent weeks. Time to take it up to the Tiges!

 

[pebblesofsand]

Geez reading this bitching pisses me off, what would you guys know about selection?

Well at least as much as the selection committee by the look of things. Richo admitted in the Selection review that Lee isn't a second ruck and so why did they pick him there. I think most people pointed out that self evident fact last Thursday.

But really annoys me is this - play a bloke out of position and then dump him because he didn't perform - great for the players development and one less chance for us to actually determine if the bloke is good enough.

 

[hayes]

Maybe Richo wants to go with a Port like setup. They only run out there with the two talls as well in Schultz and Westoff if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Rors]

Out:
Simpkin
Milera
Longer
Jones
Gwilt

In:
Hickey
Montagna
Dunstan
Stanley
Schneider

FB: Webster Delaney Shenton
HB: Murdoch Dempster Savage
C: Steven Armitage Hayes
HF: Billings Riewoldt Montagna
FF: Lee Stanley Schneider
R: Hickey Ross Dunstan
INT: Weller Ray Newnes
SUB: Minchington




Thoughts?

That's some effort. 0 from 5 for your outs, but your ins were pretty much on song

 

[bird_man]

Geez reading this bitching pisses me off, what would you guys know about selection?

Whoever disses Jones on here in my opinion know nothing about league football, have never played it at a reasonable standard and never will or are just armchair critics who love to highlight the negatives in everything.

As far as selection goes, why do we want to win games, so we can settle for mediocrity for the next 19 years?

How about those of you who constantly complain trying to be positive?

If we can't give our views on big footy than what are we here for? Do we have to agree with everything that's happening and pretend that everything is cherry ripe?

I have really liked what Richo has done with selection all year, but I would like to see Stanley and Lee both given a game to see how it goes.

 

[joop]

I might be in the minority but I am pretty happy with selection. Stanley for the backup ruck role better and Jones will take out Cotchin. Ray had to go for butchering the ball.

Probably not talk enough to call for Bruce, but not having him is my only doubt.

All good and well, don't think anyone is denying this but what happens when he goes to the ruck? Riewoldt once again becomes our sole target up forward. Longer? Simpkin? I don't think so. No wonder we are so Riewoldt conscious because we have no one else down there half the time.
And before someone has a crack that I or anyone else is whinging, it's a forum, they are called opinions, just because we never played league footy doesn't mean we are arm chair critics, last time I checked you didn't have to be in a band to have an opinion on music.

 

[Big Mart]

Ray a surprise... His effort on Rosa Sunday was poor. But he's been good generally IMO?

Jones a surprise? As he has been for a month.

Few surprises... Often the case this year?

Lee was astounding last week? Probably given a last shot to redeem?

 

[VDS66]

with respect...

some tough decisions will need to made at year's end, so we have to give all players who are ready a go at seniors to sort them out one way or the other. Whilst you want to win - churning players does not allow for a settled team and /ro the best team.

 

[Persevering Saint]

This is what I said last week:

Wait for Lee to get injured, or fail dismally. This is just setting him up to fail.

Notwithstanding that, I'm not too fussed with that selection (I know, I'm as surprised as anybody! ). Here's how it looks to me:

Lee > Stanley
Ray > Montagna
Murdoch > Dunstan

2 Tall defensive backs: Delaney, Gwilt
1 Small defensive backs: Dempster,
3 Offensive backs: Shenton, Webster, Savage (+out mid)

7 Inside mids: Dunstan, Montagna, Steven, Armitage, Ross, Hayes, Jones
2 (+1) Outside mids: Newnes, Milera (+Savage)
1 Tagger: Weller

1 (+1) Rucks: Longer, (+Stanley)

2 Tall Forwards: Riewoldt, Stanley (+ ruck)
2 (+1) Small Forwards: Minchington, Billings
1 Medium Forwards: Simpkin
​

So, a few thoughts:

1. Saunders is a bit stiff, but hey.
   
2. I would really love Lee in there, as I've said. I think it's a tad harsh to drop him for not fulfilling a role that even the coach recognises he's not designed for.
   
3. Having said that, I want to congratulate Tommy Simpkin, who has essentially taken Lee's spot in the side, there. At the end of the day, I think the selectors said, "We need a medium tall: both kicked a goal, one added pressure, we'll pick that one." In the end, while Lee would be a lovely "sealer", overall, I think that's the best forward setup we've had since the first few rounds.
4. I reckon that's the best midfield we've had all year. I'd like Curren or Saunders in for Jones, but I can't begrudge them keeping Jones in when he kicked two goals. I think ditching Ray is a brave move given his experience, but the correct one. I think players like Savage, Newnes, and even Webster at points can fulfill Ray's role.
5. I still think Gwilt is being asked to fulfill a role he's not meant to play, which is unfair to him and potentially damaging to the team. I'd like Bruce in to take Vickery and shut him down. But I also understand the need for experience, so hey.
6. Congrats on Longer getting another one. I expected Hickey would have to be rushed back, but if Longer's fine game last week gives us the luxury of easing the Hickster back in, I think that's great for all concerned. I also think Stanley has earned his crack again, after a stirling forward game last week, responsible for 7 scoring shots, either via assists, goals or points (he kicked 5 scoring shots himself).

 

[aussierulesrules]

Was always going to be a very interesting week for selection, with all of Joey, Dunstan, Schneider and Hickey available and Saunders playing well in the VFL (and Stanley being decent and kicking 3 goals for possibly the first time at any level since arriving at the club) and I'm not too disappointed with the team, as I think it's comfortably a better one than last week, and better balanced (with Stanley better suited to the forward/ruck role than Lee). I'm also glad that we're now being more conservative when bringing everyone back from injury (ie. Hickey and Schneids playing another week in the VFL), although I also would have much preferred it if we had played all of Roo, Rhys and Lee, for at least one week, to see how it went.

Also think Murdoch was pretty stiff to miss, after doing about as well as you'd expect anyone to do in just 18% game time last week. He was instrumental in our only two goals of the quarter he played, with firstly a terrific 60m kick to Jack (who then kicked it to Lee, who goaled, in just about our best end-to-end goal of the year) and then with a ripper bullet handball through traffic to Minch, who goaled and he could have had another goal assist just a couple of minutes later, had Weller kicked truly, from directly in front (after Brodie passed it to him in a slightly better position, after he took a mark about 50m out), so it's hard to complain about how he went in a short period. Really hope he plays in the guts in the VFL.

Someone was always likely to be a bit stiff to miss though, after no-one was really bad last week.

Actually, just remembered Milera though. He was ultra-quiet last week, after not playing the week before, so he was probably a bit lucky to keep his spot. Maybe he gets the jacket this week (CJ and Minch other strong possibilities- hope it's not Minch though, want to see him in another full game).

Winnable game this.