List Mgmt. List planning 2015 and onwards

[It Just Is]

Keep digging. No continuity? He was suspended for 3 weeks, not 3 months. And it's not like he was injured so he couldn't train.

Meanwhile, the player in question gets 25 disposals, 7 marks, 3 tackles, 7 clearances, 4 inside 50s, 1 rebound 50 and 2 goals. Should be at least second best on ground to go with the two 3rd bests and 1 2nd best he already has gathered in the past four games. He had a better game than Ah Chee did. But hey, he's the very definition of vanilla, right?

Perhaps leave the list decisions until everyone has had the same opportunities as Young has had and stop making judgement calls on who will or will not be delisted. One year on Young's contract isn't going to be the difference between the club retaining him over Moore - they'll just demote him to the rookie list and he might decide to walk if he doesn't get traded.

Now we're just going in circles. The fact is Moore has missed a lot of footy this year through injury, suspension, and a poorly timed bye. While the coaching staff might be prepared to rush Wines back after a layoff they probably want the 22nd guy selected to be in a sustained period of form. Something Moore hasn't been able to show this season until now.

We're at the midpoint of an incredibly disappointing season this is the perfect time to make a list of likely delistings. Jason Cripps would be doing the same.

As for the Moore vs Young argument, well there's really not much in it in my opinion. Young might be a touch quicker and a touch more dangerous forward so the puts him a little ahead for mine but still deservedly under the pump. At the end of the day the reality is we don't need all three of Moore, Young and Ah Chee.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

O'Shea played in the middle today for the Magpies and had probably his best game for the year according to reports.

We need to have a core of 188-190+cm mids who give us presence around the contest and decent marking targets when we try to move the ball by foot. Trying to pinpoint passes to Kane Mitchell and Sam Gray through the corridor is fraught with danger as we have discovered this year.

 

[FallingLiefs]

With Colquhoun moving onto the wing last week and O'Shea this week in my head it's becoming apparent we are doing a combination of two things... One, looking for life after Polec this season. Two, Breaking up some of our strong points (HBF'ers) and moving them to where we can play more of our best 22 players, not specifically our best 22 structured team.

Move #3 Krakeour forward please.

 

[Schulzenfest]

He was better than 'very good'. If your boy Young had that game at SANFL level you'd be all over him telling us how great he is and how it's a travesty that spuds like Gray get picked in front of him.

Young did rack up numbers like that at SANFL level the week before he was called up, and you spent the weekend bitching about his selection ahead of Moore. Shit, he had numbers like that at AFL level against the reigning premiers and that didn't impress you, and yet Moore does it against ****ing West Adelaide and you're bragging about it like he's just won a Norm Smith.

SANFL form doesn't prove anything. It's a means to an end, that end being getting into the AFL side.

What does he have to do to impress you?

He has to do it at AFL level. He could get 50 touches and 5 goals in the seconds but he doesn't shake off the vanilla tag until he brings the same confidence and the willingness to take the game on that he has at SANFL level to AFL level.

But now your boy has spudded it up not once, not twice, but thrice (Geelong, West Coast, Adelaide) you have the nerve to criticize a player who hasn't even had the chance to show if he's improved during the off-season by laughably comparing him to Sam Gray.

I'm comparing Moore's SANFL form to Gray's SANFL form. The point being that plenty of players are in the 'too good for SANFL, not good enough for AFL' category. Gray is one of those players. If you want another example, Moore hasn't done anything in the SANFL hat Ben Newton didn't do in the SANFL last year, and Newts' form for Melbourne couldn't be described as anything other than vanilla.

Nothing that Moore does at SANFL level is going to prove that he doesn't fit into that category. He has to do it at AFL level. And (as I've already said twice) I hope he gets his chance to do that against Carlton, because he's now overtaken Young on form. That means the onus should now be on Young to overtake him back if he wants to get back ahead of Moore on the depth chart.

Yeah, Young might rack up pretty numbers occasionally, but his presence in the team actually hurts the rest of the group because he doesn't do anything substantial to help his teammates. And if you were as objective as you asked me to be, you'd acknowledge that.

Yes, that time you criticised him for winning a contested ball against the Cats because he should've been blocking for someone else was very objective. I'm sure every time Moore wins a contested ball against Carlton you'll criticise him in the same way.

You are allowed to have favourite players, you know. It's fine that you prefer Moore to Young. Just don't act like you're not biased towards Moore, the same way I'm biased towards Young.

 

[philthy05]

Now we're just going in circles. The fact is Moore has missed a lot of footy this year through injury, suspension, and a poorly timed bye. While the coaching staff might be prepared to rush Wines back after a layoff they probably want the 22nd guy selected to be in a sustained period of form. Something Moore hasn't been able to show this season until now.

We're at the midpoint of an incredibly disappointing season this is the perfect time to make a list of likely delistings. Jason Cripps would be doing the same.

As for the Moore vs Young argument, well there's really not much in it in my opinion. Young might be a touch quicker and a touch more dangerous forward so the puts him a little ahead for mine but still deservedly under the pump. At the end of the day the reality is we don't need all three of Moore, Young and Ah Chee.

Lol sustained form?

Pick a game that Moore has playd in the sanfl where he has had ls than 20 disposals ? If you can find more than two in the last two years I'll be shocked

 

[Forzaport]

I've don't see Moore as vanilla at AFL level, mainly because I rate his off the ball work in the midfield. It should also be noted that Moore rarely gets dropped once he's in the team, it's usually injury that puts him out. Vanilla is what Hartlett is right now and that's probably one of the biggest insults that can be leveled at Hamish who is an infinitely better player than what he's currently producing.

 

[TeeKray]

Frankly, a 6 year/50 game AFL midfielder drafted as a top 10 pick should be dominating at SANFL level every week as a base standard expectation.

 

[RossFC]

Still annoyed that at this point in his career Andrew is 37 AFL games behind Kelvin Moore.

 

[Janus]

Young did rack up numbers like that at SANFL level the week before he was called up, and you spent the weekend bitching about his selection ahead of Moore. Shit, he had numbers like that at AFL level against the reigning premiers and that didn't impress you, and yet Moore does it against ****ing West Adelaide and you're bragging about it like he's just won a Norm Smith.

SANFL form doesn't prove anything. It's a means to an end, that end being getting into the AFL side.

Ok, first of all, I never said his numbers against Hawthorn weren't impressive. I just said not to cherry pick all the good stats because he had 6 clangers and only 2 tackles. You gotta take the bad with the good. Then you bit my head off saying that Moore has never had those sort of numbers, which I agreed with and said that Young had a good possession based game.

Secondly, you obviously still don't understand that Young and Moore are two entirely different players. Young isn't a blocker, he's an extractor, so he's going to rack up numbers pretty easily when other people are doing the 'vanilla' grunt work. We don't need another extractor - we've got Boak, Gray, Ebert and Hartlett who are all better at it than Young is. Moore racking up similar numbers is impressive because he's a blocker and brings other people into the game because of that fact.

He has to do it at AFL level. He could get 50 touches and 5 goals in the seconds but he doesn't shake off the vanilla tag until he brings the same confidence and the willingness to take the game on that he has at SANFL level to AFL level.

My comment was directly aimed at his SANFL form. I have no idea how he'll go in the AFL this year. He could spud it up, and if he does, I'll be the first one to say he's shit and should be dropped. But when someone has a great game, no matter the level, then you should acknowledge it IMO. This whole 'oh he's a top 10 draft pick so he should be dominating this level' bs is just that. He's not the sort of player to rack up heaps of stats. He never will be. But he has been dominating the SANFL in pretty much every game he's played this year.

I'm comparing Moore's SANFL form to Gray's SANFL form. The point being that plenty of players are in the 'too good for SANFL, not good enough for AFL' category. Gray is one of those players. If you want another example, Moore hasn't done anything in the SANFL hat Ben Newton didn't do in the SANFL last year, and Newts' form for Melbourne couldn't be described as anything other than vanilla.

Nothing that Moore does at SANFL level is going to prove that he doesn't fit into that category. He has to do it at AFL level. And (as I've already said twice) I hope he gets his chance to do that against Carlton, because he's now overtaken Young on form. That means the onus should now be on Young to overtake him back if he wants to get back ahead of Moore on the depth chart.

I would say that instead of focusing on Moore's output, focus on the output of the rest of the midfield group, especially in clearances. You've seen what it's been like without him, so if it improves as I think it will, it can be quantifiably attributed to his inclusion in the team if it happens. As I've already said twice, not everyone has to be 'the guy'. Moore is one of the 'other guys' who makes 'the guys' in Boak, Wines, Gray, Hartlett etc better.

Yes, that time you criticised him for winning a contested ball against the Cats because he should've been blocking for someone else was very objective. I'm sure every time Moore wins a contested ball against Carlton you'll criticise him in the same way.

You are allowed to have favourite players, you know. It's fine that you prefer Moore to Young. Just don't act like you're not biased towards Moore, the same way I'm biased towards Young.

I would say the same about any player who was the sub and who had just come into the game. And you'll see how much of a favourite Moore is if he ****s up when he gets picked. My championing of him has only and will only ever extend to giving him the same opportunities other players have had to cement a place this year as a reward for good form. If he doesn't take this one if it comes, then he's got no one to blame but himself. Do I want to see him do well? **** yes, we paid a lot for him. If you wanna call that being biased towards him, then I guess I am.

 

[Zakk Wylde]

Somehow I doubt if this will get into our list planning but I thought I might mention it anyway. The commentators at the West match were saying maybe Port could give Summo a go as a mature-age recruit. He's probably in the form of his career but I see him as a Mitch Banner type, someone who can read the game and knows where the ball will go and can get free easily, but doesn't have the pace for the AFL. He certainly could do something for Port mentoring our players so they run to where the ball falls instead of running around like headless chooks or standing in one place with their mouths open as so many seemed to do last night.

No...why....just why ??

We already have Sam Gray and Kane Mitchell taking up spots.

Apart from Boomer Harvey, how many small blokes make it ?? They just don't.

We need to move on and never take this route again because it's a flat out waste.

 

[Schulzenfest]

I'd have more hope for Summerton at AFL level than I would Gray or Mitchell. The difference between Summerton and Gray/Mitchell is that Summerton's skills are AFL quality.

He's not necessarily somebody who I'd be picking but we could do a lot worse, and in fact we quite regularly do.

 

[RossFC]

I'd call Summerton up right now if he was on our AFL list, but the problem is he isn't and picking 27 year olds in the rookie draft is not smart.

That's why I'd keep him as SANFL captain until he retires.

 

[davesnothere]

No...why....just why ??

We already have Sam Gray and Kane Mitchell taking up spots.

Apart from Boomer Harvey, how many small blokes make it ?? They just don't.

We need to move on and never take this route again because it's a flat out waste.

Ballantyne, Betts, Rioli and Saad was pretty good for the Suns today.

 

[El_Scorcho]

If you're going to be sub 6 foot and play AFL football, you need to have something freakishly elite about you.

Pace, agility, goalsense, ability to read the play or fall of the ball, defensive pressure, nuggety strength for your size.

You don't need all of those attributes, but everyone sub 6 foot post 2000 who has managed a successful AFL career has been elite in at least one of those attributes.

 

[Hellgood]

Somehow I doubt if this will get into our list planning but I thought I might mention it anyway. The commentators at the West match were saying maybe Port could give Summo a go as a mature-age recruit. He's probably in the form of his career but I see him as a Mitch Banner type, someone who can read the game and knows where the ball will go and can get free easily, but doesn't have the pace for the AFL. He certainly could do something for Port mentoring our players so they run to where the ball falls instead of running around like headless chooks or standing in one place with their mouths open as so many seemed to do last night.

Nah.

After a loss or two the grass always seems greener on the other side of the field. From what I've seen Mitchell, Moore, Ah Chee, Young and Neade offer a fair bit more.

I'd have more hope for Summerton at AFL level than I would Gray or Mitchell. The difference between Summerton and Gray/Mitchell is that Summerton's skills are AFL quality.

He's not necessarily somebody who I'd be picking but we could do a lot worse, and in fact we quite regularly do.

Let's not be silly here. Your judgement is very clouded by what you've seen of Mitchell and Gray at the higher level, which is almost unrecognisabe in terms of the intensity, tactics and 'external' pressures of the SANFL. I don't see a hell of a lot of the SANFL, only replays of our televised matches but Mitchell and Gray stand out even for their skills which is a weakness which manifests itself each time they appear on the bigger stage.

If Gray wasn't currently on our list and was running around for the Magpies, there'd be people sitting here claiming how much we need his class, footy smarts and passion because he's true blue Port Adelaide unlike the imposters born with a silver spoon in their mouths only there because they were drafted Shit it was only last year when there were one or two posters in particular beating off about how good Ben Haren was in comparison to the talls on our list. No offence at all to Summerton/Haren/anyone but yeah, it's a common thing to see guys like these lionised because they aren't on our main list.

 

[Jim Dixon]

Hmm.

So White's getting on a bit for a speed merchant and Polec's done his Navicular. Ergo, we need to bring in another fast outside mid. An old fashioned wingman.

Also, since we're almost certainly going to de-list John Butcher can we please have another big KPF draftee? I'm pleased with the way Mitch Harvey is developing but Mason Shaw's almost chronic injuries are a real worry. In fact, can we have two KPF draftee prospects?

Also, no to Jake Carlisle or any Essendon's class of 2012 until after CAS have made their call one way or the other. To lose three players to a WADA suspension about a drugs mess that doesn't concern us is intolerable.

 

[Zakk Wylde]

Hmm.

So White's getting on a bit for a speed merchant and Polec's done his Navicular. Ergo, we need to bring in another fast outside mid. An old fashioned wingman.

Also, since we're almost certainly going to de-list John Butcher can we please have another big KPF draftee? I'm pleased with the way Mitch Harvey is developing but Mason Shaw's almost chronic injuries are a real worry. In fact, can we have two KPF draftee prospects?

Also, no to Jake Carlisle or any Essendon's class of 2012 until after CAS have made their call one way or the other. To lose three players to a WADA suspension about a drugs mess that doesn't concern us is intolerable.

Agreed with going for speed again... In saying that, Amon appears to be that extra silky runner we're craving.

Hope he returns again this week.

 

[mic59]

No...why....just why ??

We already have Sam Gray and Kane Mitchell taking up spots.

Apart from Boomer Harvey, how many small blokes make it ?? They just don't.

We need to move on and never take this route again because it's a flat out waste.

Let me make it more clear. I wouldn't put him on our list but I think we could do worse than having him teach some of our kids how to play the game.

 

[Zakk Wylde]

Ballantyne, Betts, Rioli and Saad was pretty good for the Suns today.

All forwards. Summo is a midfielder plain and simple.

 

[snozulu]

I really liked it when i heard that cam was moved into the midfield in the sanfl game on the weekend and did quite well from what i heard. Elite runner and good mark around the ground not to mention his size and defensive skills. Could negate the need to recruit another big bodied mid

 

[VineValerian]

I really liked it when i heard that cam was moved into the midfield in the sanfl game on the weekend and did quite well from what i heard. Elite runner and good mark around the ground not to mention his size and defensive skills. Could negate the need to recruit another big bodied mid

Good that they tried Cam and Cluzza as mids and Butch down back lately.
Versatility is essential these days.

 

[wayb2912]

Trading pick 13(McCarthy) for Polec is gonna come back to bite us, Cam McCarthy is everything we are screaming out for. I know we got Impey as well but I still think we should of played hard ball. Polec + McCarthy would of put us closer to a premiership than Polec + Impey


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[Hong-Kong Phooey]

It may be a broken record, but the one thing we need most of all is a dominant all Australian ruckman.

 

[mic59]

Since returning Moore has scored 4 goals in 4 games, has been our 3rd best twice, 2nd best once and in the game he did not feature in our best had 25 touches and 2 goals. Just as good, if not slightly better than the run of form Sam Gray was having before his call-up.

 

[Portmanteau]

Don't forget we would have picked Impey at 14 apparently, so even if we held onto it we would still be having this debate.