The 457 visa debacle

[Slax]

He scrapped mining and carbon tax. He gets a big tick for that. Otherwise he is no different to the last lot ie wasting billions in spending, wont cut taxes, fix IR etc

He has done three things in two years he promised.

1. Scrapped the mining tax
2. Scrapped the carbon tax
3. Turned back the boats

In return though he has done a heap of things he didn't promise and set up stupid witch hunts wasting hundreds of millions. Who actually thought we needed a RC into Pink Bats? Why was the RC in the building industry extended, but the scope not expanded to include investigation into corruption by construction companies?

 

[medusala]

He has done three things in two years he promised.

1. Scrapped the mining tax
2. Scrapped the carbon tax
3. Turned back the boats

In return though he has done a heap of things he didn't promise and set up stupid witch hunts wasting hundreds of millions. Who actually thought we needed a RC into Pink Bats? Why was the RC in the building industry extended, but the scope not expanded to include investigation into corruption by construction companies?

Agree re pink batts. RC in to unions is hardly a witch hunt. There is clear evidence of criminal activity in the sector and numerous charges have been recommended. As for construction companies is not the RC looking in co payments to unions?

The biggest negative by a mile is that he hasn't slashed spending. He made a half hearted effort then backed down in the face of bleating from the usual suspects. Cowardly effort.

As are his efforts on 457 visas. He is too gutless to take on the unions and instead tackles the problem via the backdoor. Shoddy and gutless.

 

[Slax]

Agree re pink batts. RC in to unions is hardly a witch hunt. There is clear evidence of criminal activity in the sector and numerous charges have been recommended. As for construction companies is not the RC looking in co payments to unions?

The biggest negative by a mile is that he hasn't slashed spending. He made a half hearted effort then backed down in the face of bleating from the usual suspects. Cowardly effort.

As are his efforts on 457 visas. He is too gutless to take on the unions and instead tackles the problem via the backdoor. Shoddy and gutless.

Not saying the construction unions aren't involved in criminal activities, just that the construction companies themselves aren't much better. I'd love to see the RC widened. The other alternative is to set up an RC into political donations and the favourable decisions that come from it, neither party will do it, but there is a clear link between the two and we need to ban companies donating to political parties.

 

[Power Raid]

Not saying the construction unions aren't involved in criminal activities, just that the construction companies themselves aren't much better. I'd love to see the RC widened. The other alternative is to set up an RC into political donations and the favourable decisions that come from it, neither party will do it, but there is a clear link between the two and we need to ban companies donating to political parties.

I would love to see media, lobby groups and companies all being regulated in terms of dealings with govt. There should be a disclosure on contributions including attending paid for dinner functions and discussions with politicians.

All of these groups should be able to hold discussions with politicians re there concerns or requirements (they have the same rights as individuals) but these discussions should be disclosed. Further any fear or favour in terms of votes should be illegal being a criminal offence (rather than just a civil offence).

 

[Max zero]

And the long term outlook for the Australian is just oh so rosy. Would much rather be in the EU position at least they have a future not sure what Australia's is, this government has shut down projects and industries which offered future growth like renewables and the NBN.

NBN is a possibility. Renewables on the other hand...its not growth if you replace a cheaper energy source with a more expensive one. That's just inflation.

It's amazing how people demonize 457 visas while lamenting the decline of local industry.

We are competing against the rest of the world in case some of you haven't realized. What's our edge going to be?

 

[CM86]

It's amazing how people demonize 457 visas while lamenting the decline of local industry.

We are competing against the rest of the world in case some of you haven't realized. What's our edge going to be?

What do you mean?

 

[Max zero]

What do you mean?

Why would a company start up in Australia when they could start up in Singapore, Taiwan, China, Thailand, etc.

We have higher costs, higher taxes and more regulations.

 

[Power Raid]

NBN is a possibility. Renewables on the other hand...its not growth if you replace a cheaper energy source with a more expensive one. That's just inflation.

It's amazing how people demonize 457 visas while lamenting the decline of local industry.

We are competing against the rest of the world in case some of you haven't realized. What's our edge going to be?

I feel some people forget we are now competing globally and don't appreciate workers don't need to arrive on our shores to be considered competition on wages or productivity. In fact, the workers that don't come here probably compete more on price whilst 457 workers help our productivity.

Your right re the renewables industry adding to inflation rather than growth. It is a balance between inflation vs doing the right thing for our globe. This sounds like a complex issue but in reality it is quite simple. We simply replace our aging infrastructure with new technologies, where appropriate, when considering major upgrades.

 

[CM86]

Why would a company start up in Australia when they could start up in Singapore, Taiwan, China, Thailand, etc.

We have higher costs, higher taxes and more regulations.

Whats that got to do with 457's though?

 

[Max zero]

Whats that got to do with 457's though?

You can't see the links?

Think about why would a company go through the many regulations and costs of a 457 visa?

For many companies it simply makes sense to move to India instead of bringing in Indians on 457 visas.

457 visas aren't the cause of thr problem they are the symptom.

 

[CM86]

You can't see the links?

Think about why would a company go through the many regulations and costs of a 457 visa?

For many companies it simply makes sense to move to India instead of bringing in Indians on 457 visas.

457 visas aren't the cause of thr problem they are the symptom.

I thought you used to say that 457's don't get paid less or taken advantage of? That's why I'm not following your point now.

 

[Max zero]

I thought you used to say that 457's don't get paid less or taken advantage of? That's why I'm not following your point now.

Where is the contradiction? My point was that 457 visas are not a cost saving measure for the business. That is entirely in line with my previous posts. Hence why so many companies, rather then deal with the costs and regulations of 457 visas, simply move their business elsewhere (such as India) where the costs are lower and regulations softer.

The rise of 457 visa is simply Australian business trying to compete internationally.

And mostly failing.

 

[pazza]

You can't see the links?

Think about why would a company go through the many regulations and costs of a 457 visa?

For many companies it simply makes sense to move to India instead of bringing in Indians on 457 visas.

457 visas aren't the cause of thr problem they are the symptom.

And we then see sanctioned slavery.

 

[Max zero]

And we then see sanctioned slavery.

Welcome to a world where there is more people then work for them to do. Robotics will make it so much worse.

I could think of a few people who I would nominate for culling for the greater good.

 

[pazza]

Welcome to a world where there is more people then work for them to do. Robotics will make it so much worse.

I could think of a few people who I would nominate for culling for the greater good.

Stuff that for a joke.

Just employ people on the worker's terms. Guaranteed results.

 

[Max zero]

Stuff that for a joke.

Just employ people on the worker's terms. Guaranteed results.

Who said I was joking?

What if there is no work?

 

[Elroo]

Who said I was joking?

What if there is no work?

You are supporter of eugenics then?

 

[Max zero]

You are supporter of eugenics then?

:eyeroll:

Also eugenics was more of an idea of genetic traits predeterming social class.

 

[pazza]

Who said I was joking?

What if there is no work?

Create it.

However you like. If that means having people undertake public service entrance exams so be it.

 

[Max zero]

Create it.

However you like. If that means having people undertake public service entrance exams so be it.

Just create jobs? Sounds easy when you say it like that.

I stand corrected.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

I found a 457 discussion thread from 2007 over here and posted in there regarding the latest news, but didn't realise it wasn't in Aus Politics so apologies for the cross-post. Obviously this is something that people on all sides of politics are concerned about, so it'd be good to chat about it without the illogical LNP talking point that claims talking about a Chinese FTA is racist.

4 Corners tonight reveals how student visa holders are exploited because they work over the hours their Visa allows and so then can be held over a barrell by employers who do them over with underpaying them or making them work much longer hours than end up on their pay slip.

I personally know this also happens with 457s, so I was disappointed when it was brought up under the last Labor govt that the narrative the media ran with was that there wasn't one example of 457 exploitation. It seemed obvious living in Sydney's Eastern Suburbs where there are so many 457 workers. Illegal work practices, money withheld, promises of promotion or wage rises that never come, etc. References are often made up by people going for 457s and they aren't checked by the regulators.

Surely these concerns should feed into the current discussion of the Chinese FTA that allows Chinese companies to bring in workers if they advertise and can't find locals to do that job. I know bar staff in Sydney on 457s. Hard to believe you can't find a local to do that.

 

[Max zero]

I found a 457 discussion thread from 2007 over here and posted in there regarding the latest news, but didn't realise it wasn't in Aus Politics so apologies for the cross-post. Obviously this is something that people on all sides of politics are concerned about, so it'd be good to chat about it without the illogical LNP talking point that claims talking about a Chinese FTA is racist.

4 Corners tonight reveals how student visa holders are exploited because they work over the hours their Visa allows and so then can be held over a barrell by employers who do them over with underpaying them or making them work much longer hours than end up on their pay slip.

I personally know this also happens with 457s, so I was disappointed when it was brought up under the last Labor govt that the narrative the media ran with was that there wasn't one example of 457 exploitation. It seemed obvious living in Sydney's Eastern Suburbs where there are so many 457 workers. Illegal work practices, money withheld, promises of promotion or wage rises that never come, etc. References are often made up by people going for 457s and they aren't checked by the regulators.

Surely these concerns should feed into the current discussion of the Chinese FTA that allows Chinese companies to bring in workers if they advertise and can't find locals to do that job. I know bar staff in Sydney on 457s. Hard to believe you can't find a local to do that.

I'm sure there are abuses. The question is how far extends.

If you know people who are abusing the system then instead of complaining about it on the forums you should report it. I know for a fact reported visa and workplace violations are investigated thoroughly.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

I'm sure there are abuses. The question is how far extends.

If you know people who are abusing the system then instead of complaining about it on the forums you should report it. I know for a fact reported visa and workplace violations are investigated thoroughly.

Problem is that you then push the people you know out of work. In the two bar staff instances I know well, the person no longer works for one of them (and there wasn't a suggestion of being underpaid) and in the other instance, the rather large organisation went into administration.

 

[Power Raid]

I found a 457 discussion thread from 2007 over here and posted in there regarding the latest news, but didn't realise it wasn't in Aus Politics so apologies for the cross-post. Obviously this is something that people on all sides of politics are concerned about, so it'd be good to chat about it without the illogical LNP talking point that claims talking about a Chinese FTA is racist.

4 Corners tonight reveals how student visa holders are exploited because they work over the hours their Visa allows and so then can be held over a barrell by employers who do them over with underpaying them or making them work much longer hours than end up on their pay slip.

I personally know this also happens with 457s, so I was disappointed when it was brought up under the last Labor govt that the narrative the media ran with was that there wasn't one example of 457 exploitation. It seemed obvious living in Sydney's Eastern Suburbs where there are so many 457 workers. Illegal work practices, money withheld, promises of promotion or wage rises that never come, etc. References are often made up by people going for 457s and they aren't checked by the regulators.

Surely these concerns should feed into the current discussion of the Chinese FTA that allows Chinese companies to bring in workers if they advertise and can't find locals to do that job. I know bar staff in Sydney on 457s. Hard to believe you can't find a local to do that.

disgraceful and dishonest

 

[Max zero]

Problem is that you then push the people you know out of work. In the two bar staff instances I know well, the person no longer works for one of them (and there wasn't a suggestion of being underpaid) and in the other instance, the rather large organisation went into administration.

So? If the company can't stay in business without breaking the law then they shouldn't be in business.

Keeping silent simply perpetuates any problems.