Analysis Kinnear Beatson vs the average recruiter

[swansfan51]

I feel if Beatson did those trades he would of been lynched out of Sydney

White has been ok for them.

White was traded for pick 44 (* all) and has played 36 games and scored 47 goals for them. Its an easy win. For all the abuse Jesse White keeps copping he scored more goals this year than anyone except Tippett and Franklin from our side, and is a servicable AFL player.

Collingwood did not trade for Tony Armstrong, he was a DFA. Perhaps Tedeski is referring to the only man that has ever traded for Tony Armstrong - Kinnear Beatson?

 

[MarkP]

White was traded for pick 44 (**** all) and has played 36 games and scored 47 goals for them. Its an easy win. For all the abuse Jesse White keeps copping he scored more goals this year than anyone except Tippett and Franklin from our side, and is a servicable AFL player.

Collingwood did not trade for Tony Armstrong, he was a DFA. Perhaps Tedeski is referring to the only man that has ever traded for Tony Armstrong - Kinnear Beatson?

Agree. White filled a need for them and played fine. They would have been pleased with the output and like us disappointed he just doesn't make his normal game that bit better than he puts out. Clear win for them.

His only mystery is why his best is so far apart from his worst. Gulf is enormous.

 

[swansfan51]

Nobody said he was a superstar, the point was raised that Collingwood regret or 'lost' the trade, which I disputed because pick 44 is a marginal price for someone who has played almost every game when available.

 

[MarkP]

Draft a player with a junkish pick.

He plays senior footy for you kicking near 50 goals in a season and demanding a tall defender.Pretty handy no?

Trying to find where I said he was a superstar because I clearly recall saying

"....
disappointed he just doesn't make his normal game that bit better than he puts out. Clear win for them.

His only mystery is why his best is so far apart from his worst. Gulf is enormous."

He was a good pick up for that price. Let's look at him vs another guy I don't think is a superstar.

Dunno why you go off with this chosen one garbage. If you say something indefensible with facts or plain old made up garbage like "superstar" and expect a response. Sort of how a forum works.

 

[RW]

Nobody said he was a superstar, the point was raised that Collingwood regret or 'lost' the trade, which I disputed because pick 44 is a marginal price for someone who has played almost every game when available.

You are correct as usual, but as Heeney2Franklin said in his earlier post I can guarantee you Beatson still would have been lynched on here if we had traded for White. Collingwood might have gotten him cheap and yes he has been OK for the price, but all Tedeski was saying is that he is still basically the same inconsistent player he was when he was with us. So yes it was technically a 'win' for them, but hardly a significant one.

 

[The King!]

Draft a player with a junkish pick.

He plays senior footy for you kicking near 50 goals in a season and demanding a tall defender.Pretty handy no?

Trying to find where I said he was a superstar because I clearly recall saying

"....
disappointed he just doesn't make his normal game that bit better than he puts out. Clear win for them.

His only mystery is why his best is so far apart from his worst. Gulf is enormous."

He was a good pick up for that price. Let's look at him vs another guy I don't think is a superstar.

Dunno why you go off with this chosen one garbage. If you say something indefensible with facts or plain old made up garbage like "superstar" and expect a response. Sort of how a forum works.

View attachment 188701

Silly comparison

One players on key defenders

The other is a mobile wing at Sydney

 

[The King!]

I feel if Beatson did those trades he would of been lynched out of Sydney

White has been ok for them.

He has done worse,

Still here somehow

 

[swansfan51]

Imagine picking Luke Molan in the top 10 in 2001

Imagine picking Damian Cupido at #6
Patrick Veszpremi at #11
Lewis Johnston at #12
James Sellar at #14
Cameron Wood at #18
Llane Spaanderman at #18

Clearly this is just hypothetical but lol can you imagine

 

[The King!]

Imagine picking Damian Cupido at #6
Patrick Veszpremi at #11
Lewis Johnston at #12
James Sellar at #14
Cameron Wood at #18
Llane Spaanderman at #18

Clearly this is just hypothetical but lol can you imagine

Lol

2001 draft was so good

Mark powell ahead of Sam Mitchell...

 

[Syd]

Shows that the draft is really pure lotto

Not everyone can have our envious record of first round draftee success...

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Lol

2001 draft was so good

Mark powell ahead of Sam Mitchell...

My girlfriend's housemate at the time told me we had the next Koutoufides. He was a recruiter for the Bulldogs.

We did ok though that year. Hall, LRT, Schneider....

 

[melbournehammer]

No it isn't. There is a statistically significant difference between picks in the first half of the first round, the second half of the first round, and the rest of the draft. This may even feature in Episode 3 of my list management thread.

but this is precisely why your criticisms of Beatson are unjustified (even acknowledging that he is responsible in part for some of the statistical outcomes) because he has had so few good selections over the years.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

It's actually fascinating reading those comparative stats between Reid and White. What they don't show is the amount of times and the length of time that the particular players impact contests. Call them 1%ers or something else. But the one player we simply couldn't cover in the finals was Sam Reid. The amount of times he reaches in to alter the trajectory of a ball in a pack, or the amount of times he knocks a high ball to advantage.

His contract in my view was genius and he should be given another of similar length.

 

[swansfan51]

It's actually fascinating reading those comparative stats between Reid and White. What they don't show is the amount of times and the length of time that the particular players impact contests. Call them 1%ers or something else.

1%ers per game
Jesse White 2.1
Sam Reid 2.4

 

[The King!]

It's actually fascinating reading those comparative stats between Reid and White. What they don't show is the amount of times and the length of time that the particular players impact contests. Call them 1%ers or something else. But the one player we simply couldn't cover in the finals was Sam Reid. The amount of times he reaches in to alter the trajectory of a ball in a pack, or the amount of times he knocks a high ball to advantage.

His contract in my view was genius and he should be given another of similar length.

I thought we missed Buddy a bit personally

 

[The King!]

Don't worry yourself Teddy, we have lots of room in our salary cap!!

Well I mean we must have, Hawthorn have won 3 premierships in a row and still had space to make an offer for Carlisle, we must have even more space than them! The guy you mention has it under control!

Yeah!

If one were critical of Kinnear and his trading one might mention that he got a few gems, such as a Kennedy, Mumford, Mcglynn and more recently Buddy and Tippett buy paying more than anyone else.

Shrewd? yes landing good players but eventually theres limited scope to improve a list.

But people can view his trading and our contracts how they like, but to me COLA or no COLA if we have cap pressure then there are some bloody hefty overpaid players because this list is not worth 100% of the cap

 

[The King!]

1%ers per game
Jesse White 2.1
Sam Reid 2.4

Lazy farker White, bet they were just things like passing Cloke a drink bottle, or yelling encouragement to Dane Swan.

Where as Reid would of set up match winning goals with his 1%ers, heck I think one of them contributed to the SCG rennovations

 

[brad cooper]

Comparing beatson to the average recruiter in terms of games played is pointless, sorry sf51. Do cale mortons jack watts etc games count given players if this ilk wouldnt have even got a game at swans. Yes I know you'll now point me in the hawks and cats direction but even they get things wrong from time to time. The hawks drafted mitch thorp one pick ahead of joel selwood, the cats in 08 picked mitch brown ahead of hanners.

The fact of the matter remains that Beatson build a premiership list in 2012. We have come up short since and now it is up to him to do it again. Its not like we're Carlton or Melbourne and starting miles behind. Our best 25 is as good as anyone's and we now must find/improve 26 to 36. The guy has done it before.

 

[Lakeside Swan]

Not everyone can have our envious record of first round draftee success...

Just realised that you've got that rapist Crosby in a Hawks jumper. Good one.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

1%ers per game
Jesse White 2.1
Sam Reid 2.4

I don't buy those stats. Not one bit.

 

[swansfan51]

I don't buy those stats. Not one bit.

They aren't mine, contact Champion Data and argue your objection with them.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

They aren't mine, contact Champion Data and argue your objection with them.

Not saying they're yours. I know where they come from. My point is that I can see the huge influence that Reid has on a contest and I can see that almost absence of influence White does.

As much as those stats point to similarities, Reid is miles ahead of White in value.

 

[The King!]

Not saying they're yours. I know where they come from. My point is that I can see the huge influence that Reid has on a contest and I can see that almost absence of influence White does.

As much as those stats point to similarities, Reid is miles ahead of White in value.

Why?

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Why?

I said why.

 

[Dan87]

Stats are about half the picture.

See Tom Mitchell