Dangerfield + Kerridge + 53 = Milera + Menzel + Gore - Discuss

Nov 6, 2003
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No doubt.. our playing style will have to change... out with the win the contested ball and kick to another contest style... in with the traditional crows running game. Suddenly with danger out, contested footy doesnt really suit us.
If that were to eventuate ...forget winning finals footy

All finals are won & lost on contested footy ......but then getting the ball to the runners
 
Jun 6, 2010
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I think we have a better balanced team between inside & outside.

B Crouch, menzel, seedsman, Hampton v Dangerfield, Wright, MacKay, van berlo

As good as a player Dangerfield was for us we ended up running our midfield on his crash and bash style. This worked against the bad to mediocre teams but the good teams could cover him and force the turnovers. When we used the ball in open play we were simply awesome but in the heat of battle in the middle we just struggled to get on top. With Danger absent now we are forced to become better uses of the ball and if the Crouch Brothers get operating with their contested ball winning abilities we should start smashing it in the centre. Having said all this about the midfield it should be stated that Danger was a gun around the the ground with some awesome strong marking so that aspect may be hard to cover.
 
Jun 6, 2010
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How come you guys delisted wright?

We have an abundance of players in his position now with Menzel, Betts, Cameron and Milera. He was probably safe until we got Menzel and the club then realised he was going to struggle to get a game. From all reports we were going to rookie list him but you guys beat us too the punch. The rate that you trade out your players too us though (Menzel, Betts, Jacobs) you can keep this one. He is our gift to you! Think of it as the gift that will just keep giving.
 

Weiterbot23

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We have an abundance of players in his position now with Menzel, Betts, Cameron and Milera. He was probably safe until we got Menzel and the club then realised he was going to struggle to get a game. From all reports we were going to rookie list him but you guys beat us too the punch. The rate that you trade out your players too us though (Menzel, Betts, Jacobs) you can keep this one. He is our gift to you! Think of it as the gift that will just keep giving.

Haha, if Menzel becomes an All Austraian as well I will spew!
 

arsene wenger1

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Happy with the players we got in, improved our depth and brought in X factor, match winning type players......I still believe when your trading a top 3 player you should be able to get more but as a whole, I'm pretty excited with the talent we brought in
 
Nov 6, 2003
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Not sure Clarko agrees.
TOT CONTESTED AVE
Adelaide Crows................3283...............142.7
Brisbane Lions.................2839...............129
Carlton...........................2863...............130.1
Collingwood....................3185................144.5
Essendon........................3000................136.4
Fremantle.......................3372................140.5
Geelong Cats...................2770................131.9
Gold Coast Suns..............2993.................136
GWS Giants....................2810.................127.7
Hawthorn.......................3498..................134.5
Melbourne......................2974..................135.2
North Melbourne.............3393...................135.7
Port Adelaide..................3055...................138.9
Richmond.......................3137...................136.4
St Kilda..........................2913...................132.4
Sydney Swans................3343....................139.3
West Coast Eagles...........3512....................140.5
Western Bulldogs.............3205....................139.3

I'll stand to be corrected but if you win a lot of games, i'd suggest contested possessions can be down as well as tackles
Hawthorn #1 in total, but think that includes finals
Hawthorn #13 in Ave contested possesions
 
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Dec 14, 2002
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TOT CONTESTED AVE
Adelaide Crows................3283...............142.7
Brisbane Lions.................2839...............129
Carlton...........................2863...............130.1
Collingwood....................3185................144.5
Essendon........................3000................136.4
Fremantle.......................3372................140.5
Geelong Cats...................2770................131.9
Gold Coast Suns..............2993.................136
GWS Giants....................2810.................127.7
Hawthorn.......................3498..................134.5
Melbourne......................2974..................135.2
North Melbourne.............3393...................135.7
Port Adelaide..................3055...................138.9
Richmond.......................3137...................136.4
St Kilda..........................2913...................132.4
Sydney Swans................3343....................139.3
West Coast Eagles...........3512....................140.5
Western Bulldogs.............3205....................139.3

I'll stand to be corrected but if you win a lot of games, i'd suggest contested possessions can be down as well as tackles
Hawthorn #1 in total, but think that includes finals
Hawthorn #13 in Ave contested possesions
Peter J is not the only one that has mentioned this, suggesting that Hawthorn is not a good contested footy team and that is not quite true. The reason why Hawthorn's contested footy skills are not so obvious is because of their clean disposal once they win it where as a lot of the contested footy teams follow up contested footy win with another contested footy because of their lack of cleaness around the packs where as Hawks seem to find their outside runners who effectively hit their next target this was my hunch and figures seems to support this.

I went back and compared Hawthorn's contested ball numbers to their direct opponent for every game they played this season. Bottom line, they win their fair share and they rarely lose the contested ball battle by more than 5 contested possesions. Below is every game Hawks have played and the contested footy stats from that game. In brackets is the outcome of the match and not of the contested ball battle (I was going to look at the disposal efficiency but couldn't be assed tonight)

HAW VS GEEL (W)
144 - 114

ESS VS HAW (L)
138-141

HAW VS WB (W)
147-125

PA VS HAW (L)
142-141

NMFC VA HAW (W)
127-123

GWS VS HAW (L)
132-137

HAW VS MEL (W)
128-109

HAW VS SYD (W)
147-144

HAW VS GC (W)
151-148

STK VS HAW (W)
119-135

ADL VS HAW (W)
153-143

HAW VS ESS (W)
134-132

COLL VS HAW (W)
142-122

HAW VS FRE (W)
123-124

SYD VS HAW (W)
148-132

CARL VS HAW (W)
113-142

HAW VS RICH (L)
125-146

WCE VS HAW (W)
148-154

GEEL VS HAW (W)
129-126

HAW VS PA (L)
122-146

HAW VS BL (W)
136-139

HAW VS CARL (W)
119-122

WCE VS HAW (L)
148-140

HAW VS ADL (W)
124-136

FRE VS HAW (W)
143-126

HAW VS WCE (W)
136-120
 
Dec 14, 2002
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Contested ball teams get sucked into an arm wrestle in the trenches. You have to win your share, but the secret is good disposal, moving the ball quickly to avoid getting sucked into a battle of attrition

Good and fast disposal also means you need less chances, less opportunities #efficiency
Precisely! That's why I have always said that with Hawthorn its the combination of winning their fair share of the contested and their efficiency once they win it. They have some of the games elite contested footy players around the ball in Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis et al so once they win it they rare follow the contested ball win with another contested possesion. They find their team mate on the outside of the pack who hits his next target and the possesion game of precise kicking to player that has burn his opponent into space continues. That is the difference between Hawks and all the other contested footy teams. Take us for example, we win the contested footy and follow it up with inefficient disposal so someone else needs to go win the contested footy again. Our contested footy approach is messy and inefficient, hence high placing in the contested footy ladder where as Hawks win the contested footy and rarely follow it up with another contested footy as they move it efficiently the first time.

We can't really do what Hawks do because we do not have the players that can execute that game style so we need to go about it a bit differently. We have to be a great contested footy sideto give ourselves a chance. We addressed the outside run but we still need to win that contested ball battle week in week out.
 

Tex200

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Peter J is not the only one that has mentioned this, suggesting that Hawthorn is not a good contested footy team and that is not quite true. The reason why Hawthorn's contested footy skills are not so obvious is because of their clean disposal once they win it where as a lot of the contested footy teams follow up contested footy win with another contested footy because of their lack of cleaness around the packs where as Hawks seem to find their outside runners who effectively hit their next target this was my hunch and figures seems to support this.

I went back and compared Hawthorn's contested ball numbers to their direct opponent for every game they played this season. Bottom line, they win their fair share and they rarely lose the contested ball battle by more than 5 contested possesions. Below is every game Hawks have played and the contested footy stats from that game. In brackets is the outcome of the match and not of the contested ball battle (I was going to look at the disposal efficiency but couldn't be assed tonight)

HAW VS GEEL (W)
144 - 114

ESS VS HAW (L)
138-141

HAW VS WB (W)
147-125

PA VS HAW (L)
142-141

NMFC VA HAW (W)
127-123

GWS VS HAW (L)
132-137

HAW VS MEL (W)
128-109

HAW VS SYD (W)
147-144

HAW VS GC (W)
151-148

STK VS HAW (W)
119-135

ADL VS HAW (W)
153-143

HAW VS ESS (W)
134-132

COLL VS HAW (W)
142-122

HAW VS FRE (W)
123-124

SYD VS HAW (W)
148-132

CARL VS HAW (W)
113-142

HAW VS RICH (L)
125-146

WCE VS HAW (W)
148-154

GEEL VS HAW (W)
129-126

HAW VS PA (L)
122-146

HAW VS BL (W)
136-139

HAW VS CARL (W)
119-122

WCE VS HAW (L)
148-140

HAW VS ADL (W)
124-136

FRE VS HAW (W)
143-126

HAW VS WCE (W)
136-120
Great analysis :thumbsu:

to the naked eye they often appear to lose this stat but then cover the next kick so well.

Stats don't lie though
 

Elite Crow

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Contested ball teams get sucked into an arm wrestle in the trenches. You have to win your share, but the secret is good disposal, moving the ball quickly to avoid getting sucked into a battle of attrition

Good and fast disposal also means you need less chances, less opportunities #efficiency
And our forward line will be able to capitalise on good quick ball movement
 
Dec 14, 2002
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Following on from the contested ball comparison, here is the disposal efficiency breakdown

HAW VS GEEL (W)
76-72

ESS VS HAW (L)
77-72

HAW VS WB (W)
76-71

PA VS HAW (L)
70-73

NMFC VA HAW (W)
74-77

GWS VS HAW (L)
72-72

HAW VS MEL (W)
77-73

HAW VS SYD (W)
70-74

HAW VS GC (W)
76-62

STK VS HAW (W)
78-73

ADL VS HAW (W)
67-71

HAW VS ESS (W)
74-73

COLL VS HAW (W)
71-73

HAW VS FRE (W)
81-67

SYD VS HAW (W)
72-75

CARL VS HAW (W)
74-83

HAW VS RICH (L)
74-70

WCE VS HAW (W)
64-68

GEEL VS HAW (W)
75-78

HAW VS PA (L)
76-78

HAW VS BL (W)
80-68

HAW VS CARL (W)
80-79

WCE VS HAW (L)
68-67

HAW VS ADL (W)
78-69

FRE VS HAW (W)
75-79

HAW VS WCE (W)
78-71

Just for giggles our best disposal efficiency game was 77% vs Essendon and worst was 58% against Fremantle. By comparison, Hawks worst was 67% against WCE and best was a staggering 83% vs Carlton and they hit the 80% mark 4 times this year. I am not sure we hit 80% even once at training.
 

Elite Crow

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Following on from the contested ball comparison, here is the disposal efficiency breakdown

HAW VS GEEL (W)
76-72

ESS VS HAW (L)
77-72

HAW VS WB (W)
76-71

PA VS HAW (L)
70-73

NMFC VA HAW (W)
74-77

GWS VS HAW (L)
72-72

HAW VS MEL (W)
77-73

HAW VS SYD (W)
70-74

HAW VS GC (W)
76-62

STK VS HAW (W)
78-73

ADL VS HAW (W)
67-71

HAW VS ESS (W)
74-73

COLL VS HAW (W)
71-73

HAW VS FRE (W)
81-67

SYD VS HAW (W)
72-75

CARL VS HAW (W)
74-83

HAW VS RICH (L)
74-70

WCE VS HAW (W)
64-68

GEEL VS HAW (W)
75-78

HAW VS PA (L)
76-78

HAW VS BL (W)
80-68

HAW VS CARL (W)
80-79

WCE VS HAW (L)
68-67

HAW VS ADL (W)
78-69

FRE VS HAW (W)
75-79

HAW VS WCE (W)
78-71

Just for giggles our best disposal efficiency game was 77% vs Essendon and worst was 58% against Fremantle. By comparison, Hawks worst was 67% against WCE and best was a staggering 83% vs Carlton and they hit the 80% mark 4 times this year. I am not sure we hit 80% even once at training.
Intelligent recruiting, glad to see we are now also making good kicking a priority
 

Bazil838

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Contested ball teams get sucked into an arm wrestle in the trenches. You have to win your share, but the secret is good disposal, moving the ball quickly to avoid getting sucked into a battle of attrition

Good and fast disposal also means you need less chances, less opportunities #efficiency
Hawthorn now, Geelong recently excel at kicking to advantage, not just a great kick but a kick that gives there opponent almost no chance to get to it, very subtle difference, but the best sides can open up a stoppage or turnover to give the opportunity to get that advantage kick in.
 

azza77

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At least we traded for needs to rebalance our list.

Even if 1 of seedsman & Hampton come off, our outside run should be better.

Seedsman said in his interview he/the club was looking to play him predominantly wing with the option to go forward or back if needed. This is exactly what I wanted to hear.

First full pre-season (hopefully) in 3 years.

Got high hopes for this recruit.

Little bit iffy on Hampton. I don't know why but I just get the feeling he's not going to make it. He plays his best footy on a wing/HFF flank, where we already have the likes of Knight, Cameron, Seedsman, Menzel, Smith etc pushing for that role. A lot of competition for that role in the side and I don't think he will succeed at HBF.

Tell you what though theres a lot of outside talent on our list now that can play that wing/HFF role. Reckon we will see Brodie permanentely off HB (or at least I hope so) and Seedsman on a Wing with them swapping for short stints.
 
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