Society/Culture Feminism part 1 - continued in part 2

[Maggie5]

Who isn't condemning those?

It's a gigantic strawman fallacy, in conjunction with a moral equivalence fallacy that because bad acts happen in Western society, the relevancy and danger of these other bad acts are diminished. Yet even Ford admits:



Yes, it is a rarity. This kind of open contempt for women is unacceptable in Western society. It is far more acceptable in societies where the men who committed the acts are from.

What was wrong with what she said again, I missed it in your response.

 

[coerced]

What was wrong with what she said again, I missed it in your response.

Who said there was anything wrong with what she said?

In her political paradigm, the problem with society is rooted in the attitudes and cultural norms of Western men. This makes it difficult for her to criticise anything that falls outside that perspective. Which is why she must resort to fallacies.

 

[Maggie5]

Who said there was anything wrong with what she said?

In her political paradigm, the problem with society is rooted in the attitudes and cultural norms of Western men. This makes it difficult for her to criticise anything that falls outside that perspective. Which is why she must resort to fallacies.

Didn't see the word 'Western' in her comments nor did I see where she wanted it both ways as you implied, so given that you questioned what she has stated, I got the impression that you didn't agree with her comments.

By the way the only place I have heard of this woman is on BF as I don't really follow her.

 

[coerced]

Didn't see the word 'Western' in her comments nor did I see where she wanted it both ways as you implied, so given that you questioned what she has stated, I got the impression that you didn't agree with her comments.

By the way the only place I have heard of this woman is on BF as I don't really follow her.

You didn't do very well at school, did you? From her piece on Cologne:

Because disparaging attitudes towards women and our bodies are already a benchmark of western culture, yet discussing this often encounters a very different kind of reception.

 

[Maggie5]

You didn't do very well at school, did you? From her piece on Cologne:

Ah, so I am supposed to click on the link and read all what she wrote, who would have thought?
However I was commenting on the sections you posted.
Now as to the rest of my post...

 

[coerced]

Ah, so I am supposed to click on the link and read all what she wrote, who would have thought?

Most people.

 

[Maggie5]

Most people.

Only if they are really interested in what she said.
In my experience, most people post what they think is relevant and want discuss and paste the full link as their source.
So nothing as to the rest?

 

[coerced]

Only if they are really interested in what she said.
In my experience, most people post what they think is relevant and want discuss and paste the full link as their source.
So nothing as to the rest?

You are being deliberately obtuse.

 

[Maggie5]

You are being deliberately obtuse.

nah, just calling you out.

 

[coerced]

nah, just calling you out.

On what?

 

[Maggie5]

On what?

On not answering what I asked but don't bother, not interested any more.
Moving on...

 

[coerced]

On not answering what I asked but don't bother, not interested any more.
Moving on...

There was no rest of your post.

 

[fleabitten]

I believe the reason feminists like Ford are reluctant to condemn non-white, non-Western men and would rather spend most of their energies whining about trivialities is because they are fully aware that white, Western women are more powerful, more privileged and have more opportunities than the average Indigenous man, Asian man, African man, Middle Eastern man, Latin American man, etc.

Unless of course a non-white man dares to mess with a white woman. Then it's on.

 

[coerced]

I believe the reason feminists like Ford are reluctant to condemn non-white, non-Western men and would rather spend most of their energies whining about trivialities is because they are fully aware that white, Western women are more powerful, more privileged and have more opportunities than the average Indigenous man, Asian man, African man, Middle Eastern man, Latin American man, etc.

Unless of course a non-white man dares to mess with a white woman. Then it's on.

I think it's more complex than that. I think the intersectional identity politics that dominates left wing thinking is a result of both the successes and failures of the old left. That is, much of Western society has absorbed left wing policies (welfare state, universal healthcare, multiculturalism, reduced working hours, women's right to vote, work, etc) yet none of that has resulted in universal distribution of wealth, and the systems that went further in implementing left wing ideas (eg Soviet countries) collapsed entirely.

Capitalism absorbed socialist policies, implements them reasonably successfully, and yet there still exists inequality. We're closer to utopia than any group of humans who have ever lived, and it still doesn't seem right.

Modern feminism, along with the other left wing identity politics, is a reaction to that. It is still aimed at dismantling capitalism, but with out the universal aspect that the old guard of left wingers believed in.

 

[ShanDog]

Don't agree with your last paragraph. There are many schools of thought within feminism as there are with left and right wing politics. A blanket statement like that is incorrect. True for some, but certainly not all.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Equality simply doesn't exist, no two people are created equal. This is a fact. Equality of opportunity is what should be strived for. When people talk about reaching equality? Well they've already missed the point.

 

[coerced]

Don't agree with your last paragraph. There are many schools of thought within feminism as there are with left and right wing politics. A blanket statement like that is incorrect. True for some, but certainly not all.

The dominant strain of feminism that is currently popular with milennials is exactly like that. Look at the reaction to Germaine Greer, a older feminist, saying that Caitlyn Jenner is not a real woman.

 

[ShanDog]

Dominant or most outspoken, controversial and therefore 'reported' strain?

It's been my experience that the vast majority who call themselves feminists don't subscribe to the extreme schools of thought you are talking about. There are plenty out there who do, of course.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Which is why 'ism'ism is stupid. If you pigeon hole yourself into a body of thought such as feminism, you should be judged with the worst of your similar kind.

Subscribing to an ism such as feminism is the sign of a weak individual who cannot manage their own opinions and theories.

You can believe in the concepts of feminism without being a feminist

 

[Lester Burnham]

Do you mean like Australia's most read prominent feminist, Clementine Ford, who earlier in the week said:

Yet today writes on the violence in Cologne:

and;

Bold emphasis mine. Ford does want it both ways. She wants to expose Little's crime as a manifestation of an disturbing, unseen culture within the white middle class male population (which may indeed exist) yet wishes to deny the potential existence of a similar disgusting undercurrent in another culture.

As you have noted, feminism, as much of its thought exists today, is less about universal women's rights, and more about dismantling the perceived orthodoxy.

Predictably Ford makes no mention of the woman charged with murdering three of her children by driving them into a lake.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/w...r-devastation-at-tragedy-20150811-giwk8w.html

 

[ShanDog]

Which is why 'ism'ism is stupid. If you pigeon hole yourself into a body of thought such as feminism, you should be judged with the worst of your similar kind.

Subscribing to an ism such as feminism is the sign of a weak individual who cannot manage their own opinions and theories.

You can believe in the concepts of feminism without being a feminist

Do you subscribe to the economic system of capitalism? If so, are you therefore not a capitalist?

I don't see how the argument you just put forward makes any sense or contributes anything to the conversation. Everyone has points of view or perspective. What we name that is irrelevant.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Do you subscribe to the economic system of capitalism? If so, are you therefore not a capitalist?

I don't see how the argument you just put forward makes any sense or contributes anything to the conversation. Everyone has points of view or perspective. What we name that is irrelevant.

It's just labels. I follow 99% of capitalist views but I wouldnt call myself a capitalist because I am open to other aspects.

If you label yourself unnesecarily you should be judged within that label

 

[ShanDog]

If you label yourself unnesecarily you should be judged within that label

I can't subscribe to that. I label myself Australian yet nobody should be able to ascribe the worst aspects of any other person who does the same to me. This is just stereotyping and lazy.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I can't subscribe to that. I label myself Australian yet nobody should be able to ascribe the worst aspects of any other person who does the same to me. This is just stereotyping and lazy.

Being Australian is different, that's something you are not something you choose to label yourself as.

 

[ShanDog]

Being Australian is different, that's something you are not something you choose to label yourself as.

Not true at all. Who you culturally identify as is completely up to the individual. Third generation Australian immigrants still identify themselves as Greek or Italian etc. Just one of unlimited examples.