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Mystery Time travellers

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Im of the opinion that some kind of cross time exchange could very well be possible, but eventhen, to 'send' a living human through that process and survive, let alone return could be impossible.

At the very least, 'sending' electron or sub electon streams of particles (possibly carrying data) or even objects would logically be possible many decades before 'sending' a living thing intact


But surely the motivation to send a human would be to obtain information, so why not communicate with someone already in that time?
Its the same reason we dont send humans to mars and beyond. Theres no point
 
Pessimistic said:
Im of the opinion that some kind of cross time exchange could very well be possible, but eventhen, to 'send' a living human through that process and survive, let alone return could be impossible.

At the very least, 'sending' electron or sub electon streams of particles (possibly carrying data) or even objects would logically be possible many decades before 'sending' a living thing intact


But surely the motivation to send a human would be to obtain information, so why not communicate with someone already in that time?
Its the same reason we dont send humans to mars and beyond. Theres no point
Click to expand...

I thought they had already sent a photon back in time?
 

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Thanks for that.

So in a very small scale way, plenty of people believe time traversing is fairly doable, and there are plenty of practical applications.

So its not sending someone back to talk to henry VIII, whod probaly have the someone killed anyway

Its exciting all the same, I hope i live to hear of the breakthrough
 
jason pm said:
if time is fluid and not lineal then time travelers would be here now and it would be evident.
Click to expand...

not necessarily which ever model of time you look at, whether lineal, fluid or static. the issue is how Humans perceive and interact with dimensions.
we can no more fully interact with the 1st dimension then we can the 4th. and because of that we will always perceive time as lineal.

at the very basic level time is simply the place that any 3 dimensional object like ourselves occupies at anyone time. In other words time as we understand it, time is static and we are moving through it, like a car driving down a highway.

and like a car coming down a highway we always perceive whats a ahead of us as coming towards us and whatever is behind us as moving away.

its the same with time, say you met a time traveler, who wanted to visit a single point in time, say the last moment minute of the a grand final you attended.

to you, you saw him for a 1 minute, you saw him approach and walk over and sit down. (that's him coming from the future) he sat next you for a minute (at the "time" this was your present) and then you got up and left and he was behind you. (your past)

But from this persons perspective he's still at that last minute of the grand final. whats been 2-5-10-20 or even 50 years to you has all happened within that last minute of the grand final you and he attended.

the problem with the way people conceive time travel is that what they think of is a person traveling backwards or forward's to a particular point in time and then traveling forward at the same rate as everyone else around them. a rather self centered way of looking at it, why would a time traveller confine themselves to your reference frame?

let me posit this to you, have you ever seen a person who wasn't there?
say out of the corner of your eye, or off to the side, or some place they shouldn't or couldn't be?
you've done a double take and they're gone, you dismissed it as simply your eye's playing tricks or your tired, maybe just distracted?

well consider this perhaps that this person really was there it was a time traveler, a person wanted to travel back to 21/03/2016 23:25:99:99:99:99 and watch you at your computer for that exact instant. you see them for an instant, you look again there gone. this is because the time for you is now 21/03/2016 23:26:00:00:00:01 while they are still occupying the instant that is 21/03/2016 23:25:99:99:99:99.

you never saw them coming they were just there, you never saw them leave they were just gone and to you it occurred for just such a short instant that you can't make any sense out of it other then it was a visual hallucination.

But to them, they're still there at 21/03/2016 23:25:99:99:99:99 they've been there for 5 weeks staring longingly in to your eye's, confessing there deepest regret at having to stabbed you to death 21/03/2016 23:28:00:99:99:99
 

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What a great read. I do agree that cultural perspective plays a big part in how we interpret events. In the 70s someone talking to themselves and using arm movements was given a wide berth Now that same person would be called a poser and laughed at when his bluetooth rang. I laughed at the idea of dressing in 70s clothes and asking someone what year it was. I laughed because I could do that with my wardrobe tomorrow. Further to this , if someone dressed like that and a picture was taken it could equally be said that Forward Time Travel occurred

Paradoxes. If , a big IF time travel backwards was possible we couldn't change time if we wanted to. Because whatever we did would give us the future we have now. We would always fail to kill Hitler. The bomb would be placed behind the chair leg again or Hitler would step away from the table at the right moment. Its the Terminator Paradox. The Terminator was only sent back to eliminate Sarah Connor to prevent John Connor being born. But how does Skynet know of Sarah Connors importance? Because John Connor exists. Therefore the Terminator will always fail.

If you go back in time and kill your grandfather then all that proves is your grandmother slept with someone else.

Last point: Why are these people who have travelled into the future so boring? This Norwegian guy or Swede takes about 42 minutes to show us the pictures , slowly shuffling them and you never see them clearly anyway. Tme Travel!!! That's 1 hour of my life I want back.

I agree that the planets position is a determining factor in forward time travel
 
Time is elusive. I really can't put my finger on it. One of the strangest things of our reality.
Only ever had one experience of time going weird on me.
One night time speed up on me, so it was like everything was like fast forward on a video. The only problem was I could not stop it.
Tell you what, I was glad when the flow of time returning to normal because it sure as hell was not a fun experience when it speed up and had no control of when it would stop. Don't think anything in life has scared me as much as that night.
 
GreyCrow said:
What a great read. I do agree that cultural perspective plays a big part in how we interpret events. In the 70s someone talking to themselves and using arm movements was given a wide berth Now that same person would be called a poser and laughed at when his bluetooth rang. I laughed at the idea of dressing in 70s clothes and asking someone what year it was. I laughed because I could do that with my wardrobe tomorrow. Further to this , if someone dressed like that and a picture was taken it could equally be said that Forward Time Travel occurred

Paradoxes. If , a big IF time travel backwards was possible we couldn't change time if we wanted to. Because whatever we did would give us the future we have now. We would always fail to kill Hitler. The bomb would be placed behind the chair leg again or Hitler would step away from the table at the right moment. Its the Terminator Paradox. The Terminator was only sent back to eliminate Sarah Connor to prevent John Connor being born. But how does Skynet know of Sarah Connors importance? Because John Connor exists. Therefore the Terminator will always fail.

If you go back in time and kill your grandfather then all that proves is your grandmother slept with someone else.
Click to expand...

well once again with time its not simple, if we adopt a lineal perspective of time paradoxes are entirely possible and depending on your view necessary whenever time travel occurred to alter time itself.

in this case instead of a highway, its more like your in raft in a river going with the current. you can't turn around and row against to current because time "flows" in one direction. the current is simply too strong. this is the often referenced "spacetime continuum" or "timestream" where the "past" is directly linked to the future and reality itself is built on those foundations. (its more sci-fi then science these days but lets run with it)

In this case time travel is much more impossible then in other cases as in order to go back in time you would need to reverse time itself.
but of course like always when we're dealing with theoretical concepts there's almost always a work around.
in this case we "simply" leave the 3rd and 4th dimensions completely. at this point our place in the time stream collapses if we are no longer "in" time then we are no longer have a place in the time stream.

I don't just mean we jumped out of the water, We physically no longer exist as far as the time space continuum is concerned and as far as time is concerned we never did and thus time itself changes to reflect this, this is because your past, your present and your future are all linked together. they are one and the same thing, but it doesn't really effect time itself all that much. Your position in the time stream doesn't exist and the stream reflects this much like pulling a raft out of river doesn't really effect the river, the river continue ever forward as if the raft never existed albeit ever so slightly altered. the only one aware of the raft is gone is you, nobody would be aware you ever existed, because technically, you never did.

but you don't actually cease to exist. Because your no longer "in" time your free from its constraints. it can't affect you. now this from a classical perspective is a paradox in and of itself and yet is internally consistent so that it 100% can happen.

So hold on its going to get more ****ed up free from the constraints of time you can now re-enter it at any point you can appear in the "past" in the "future" wherever and when you do this becomes your new origin within time, like a raft being placed in the river, To the time stream you didn't exist before now. just like previously you born at X and that was your origin within time. Which of course means your now free to effect things downstream happy as you like and the "time stream" will simply adjust accordingly.

and most disturbingly of all nobody would notice the difference. nobody has any reference to how things "were" before they only understand how things are "now" so you could kill hitler, when he was newly elected to office and when your arrested for your crime, nobody would have clue about your justification for the crime. they'd see it as the insane ramblings of a mad man who assassinated a popular German politician.

because this is where people really miss the point about a paradox, its not what you do that creates a paradox. you are the paradox. once you move your position in lineal time, you alter the timestream itself. thus what you do in the past flows on to the future without so much as lifting you hand you've already altered the timestream inexplicably.

in this case the terminator paradox is much much more ****ed up. Because The Terminator doesn't need to fail every time. it has to have been born itself.

after all the point people miss about the terminator (and the thing the later movies ****ed up entirely, just not getting the point) is that Cyberdyne created skynet based on what they recovered at the plant, which would never have been there if the terminator had never gone back in time. that is the real paradox which everybody misses because the people are focused on the mother of the savior of mankind. after all Cameron didn't shoot that dramatic pan up at the end of the film for nothing.
he didn't hammer the point home in judgement day for nothing and yet people simply miss the point.

the entire point is that the terminator going back in time created the very reality where skynet is destroyed by john Connor, it destroyed itself.
 
Last edited:
Sydney Bloods said:
well once again with time its not simple, if we adopt a lineal perspective of time paradoxes are entirely possible and depending on your view necessary whenever time travel occurred to alter time itself.

in this case instead of a highway, its more like your in raft in a river going with the current. you can't turn around and row against to current because time "flows" in one direction. the current is simply too strong. this is the often referenced "spacetime continuum" or "timestream" where the "past" is directly linked to the future and reality itself is built on those foundations. (its more sci-fi then science these days but lets run with it)

In this case time travel is much more impossible then in other cases as in order to go back in time you would need to reverse time itself.
but of course like always when we're dealing with theoretical concepts there's almost always a work around.
in this case we "simply" leave the 3rd and 4th dimensions completely. at this point our place in the time stream collapses if we are no longer "in" time then we are no longer have a place in the time stream.

I don't just mean we jumped out of the water, We physically no longer exist as far as the time space continuum is concerned and as far as time is concerned we never did and thus time itself changes to reflect this, this is because your past, your present and your future are all linked together. they are one and the same thing, but it doesn't really effect time itself all that much. Your position in the time stream doesn't exist and the stream reflects this much like pulling a raft out of river doesn't really effect the river, the river continue ever forward as if the raft never existed albeit ever so slightly altered. the only one aware of the raft is gone is you, nobody would be aware you ever existed, because technically, you never did.

but you don't actually cease to exist. Because your no longer "in" time your free from its constraints. it can't affect you. now this from a classical perspective is a paradox in and of itself and yet is internally consistent so that it 100% can happen.

So hold on its going to get more stuffed up free from the constraints of time you can now re-enter it at any point you can appear in the "past" in the "future" wherever and when you do this becomes your new origin within time, like a raft being placed in the river, To the time stream you didn't exist before now. just like previously you born at X and that was your origin within time. Which of course means your now free to effect things downstream happy as you like and the "time stream" will simply adjust accordingly.

and most disturbingly of all nobody would notice the difference. nobody has any reference to how things "were" before they only understand how things are "now" so you could kill hitler, when he was newly elected to office and when your arrested for your crime, nobody would have clue about your justification for the crime. they'd see it as the insane ramblings of a mad man who assassinated a popular German politician.

because this is where people really miss the point about a paradox, its not what you do that creates a paradox. you are the paradox. once you move your position in lineal time, you alter the timestream itself. thus what you do in the past flows on to the future without so much as lifting you hand you've already altered the timestream inexplicably.

in this case the terminator paradox is much much more stuffed up. Because The Terminator doesn't need to fail every time. it has to have been born itself.

after all the point people miss about the terminator (and the thing the later movies stuffed up entirely, just not getting the point) is that Cyberdyne created skynet based on what they recovered at the plant, which would never have been there if the terminator had never gone back in time. that is the real paradox which everybody misses because the people are focused on the mother of the savior of mankind. after all Cameron didn't shoot that dramatic pan up at the end of the film for nothing.
he didn't hammer the point home in judgement day for nothing and yet people simply miss the point.

the entire point is that the terminator going back in time created the very reality where skynet is destroyed by john Connor, it destroyed itself.
Click to expand...

I always found the Terminator interesting because how it was stuffed up in some sense if you thought it all through.
Similarly in the series of Fringe one character that existed no longer does in another season but then he returns but no one knows him because as far as they are concerned he never did exist and he tries to prove he did. Gets very weird. Does your head in if you think about it too much trying to make sense of time, cause and consequences. Time truly is weird whether in real life or trying to make sense of it even in science fiction movies or shows. They are always great subjects though because of that very fact it makes you think about these things. Time in itself is one weird aspect of all reality. The fact that time and space are linked can blow the mind when you really let it sink in, that it is our physical reality. In fact that reminds me when I created this account and seen it wanted a location in the profile I simply typed in spacetime as this is fundamentally where and when I am.
 
really enjoyed reading your last 2 posts Sydney Bloods
i am fascinated by our reality and how we perceive it. time, space, dimensions, size, distance, existence itself.
going forward, i would love to see how our knowledge of this develops over the next 10/50/100/1000 years. or do we already know?
 
Sydney Bloods said:
well once again with time its not simple, if we adopt a lineal perspective of time paradoxes are entirely possible and depending on your view necessary whenever time travel occurred to alter time itself.

in this case instead of a highway, its more like your in raft in a river going with the current. you can't turn around and row against to current because time "flows" in one direction. the current is simply too strong. this is the often referenced "spacetime continuum" or "timestream" where the "past" is directly linked to the future and reality itself is built on those foundations. (its more sci-fi then science these days but lets run with it)

In this case time travel is much more impossible then in other cases as in order to go back in time you would need to reverse time itself.
but of course like always when we're dealing with theoretical concepts there's almost always a work around.
in this case we "simply" leave the 3rd and 4th dimensions completely. at this point our place in the time stream collapses if we are no longer "in" time then we are no longer have a place in the time stream.
Click to expand...
I will just jump into the timestream here. I don't disagree violently with this and after 3-4 hours sleep my brain is still in the past. I wanted to stop the stream here as I wanted to comment on the next section :)

I don't just mean we jumped out of the water, We physically no longer exist as far as the time space continuum is concerned and as far as time is concerned we never did and thus time itself changes to reflect this, this is because your past, your present and your future are all linked together. they are one and the same thing, but it doesn't really effect time itself all that much. Your position in the time stream doesn't exist and the stream reflects this much like pulling a raft out of river doesn't really effect the river, the river continue ever forward as if the raft never existed albeit ever so slightly altered. the only one aware of the raft is gone is you, nobody would be aware you ever existed, because technically, you never did.

but you don't actually cease to exist. Because your no longer "in" time your free from its constraints. it can't affect you. now this from a classical perspective is a paradox in and of itself and yet is internally consistent so that it 100% can happen.
Click to expand...
I saw the earlier discussions on free will. Is it your position that free will is not possible and that all things are determined? If so then this makes sense.

I have seen studies that suggest we have no conscious will ergo there is no free will. I think those studies are hung up on the semantics. We MUST have free will. I can agree with studies that say our synapses are making choices/decisions 300milliseconds before we are aware of them. But if we are going to argue 300 milliseconds is a game changer then I cant agree with that. Our bodies and brains are always making early decisions and adjustments ahead of time as it were. But , to me , that is interrelated. Our bodies process we have finished our coffee , it prepares for the habitual move to stand up , it moves to stand up , all the while we are lagging behind those 300 milliseconds.

So hold on its going to get more stuffed up free from the constraints of time you can now re-enter it at any point you can appear in the "past" in the "future" wherever and when you do this becomes your new origin within time, like a raft being placed in the river, To the time stream you didn't exist before now. just like previously you born at X and that was your origin within time. Which of course means your now free to effect things downstream happy as you like and the "time stream" will simply adjust accordingly.

and most disturbingly of all nobody would notice the difference. nobody has any reference to how things "were" before they only understand how things are "now" so you could kill hitler, when he was newly elected to office and when your arrested for your crime, nobody would have clue about your justification for the crime. they'd see it as the insane ramblings of a mad man who assassinated a popular German politician.

because this is where people really miss the point about a paradox, its not what you do that creates a paradox. you are the paradox. once you move your position in lineal time, you alter the timestream itself. thus what you do in the past flows on to the future without so much as lifting you hand you've already altered the timestream inexplicably.

in this case the terminator paradox is much much more stuffed up. Because The Terminator doesn't need to fail every time. it has to have been born itself.

after all the point people miss about the terminator (and the thing the later movies stuffed up entirely, just not getting the point) is that Cyberdyne created skynet based on what they recovered at the plant, which would never have been there if the terminator had never gone back in time. that is the real paradox which everybody misses because the people are focused on the mother of the savior of mankind. after all Cameron didn't shoot that dramatic pan up at the end of the film for nothing.
he didn't hammer the point home in judgement day for nothing and yet people simply miss the point.

the entire point is that the terminator going back in time created the very reality where skynet is destroyed by john Connor, it destroyed itself.
Click to expand...
To finish. My paradox uses the multi-universe theory. Not only are there multi-universes of future choices , there are those of previous choices creating this present where Hitler is an historical fact as is Pol Pot etc

Great discussion
 

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GreyCrow said:
I will just jump into the timestream here. I don't disagree violently with this and after 3-4 hours sleep my brain is still in the past. I wanted to stop the stream here as I wanted to comment on the next section :)

I saw the earlier discussions on free will. Is it your position that free will is not possible and that all things are determined? If so then this makes sense.
Click to expand...

well yes, but i disagree with position that time is lineal, i was merely arguing the position that a lineal view of time presents paradoxes which would prevent time travel from occurring. My position on time is that all "time" occurs at once, your always being born always reading this thread and always dying. whether these events occur in the past, present or future depends entirely on your frame of reference. To put it in a few words rather then a wall of text: If you can't change the past and the past is only a matter of perspective, then the same must be true for the future.

I have seen studies that suggest we have no conscious will ergo there is no free will. I think those studies are hung up on the semantics. We MUST have free will. I can agree with studies that say our synapses are making choices/decisions 300milliseconds before we are aware of them. But if we are going to argue 300 milliseconds is a game changer then I cant agree with that. Our bodies and brains are always making early decisions and adjustments ahead of time as it were. But , to me , that is interrelated. Our bodies process we have finished our coffee , it prepares for the habitual move to stand up , it moves to stand up , all the while we are lagging behind those 300 milliseconds.
Click to expand...

well the question becomes not whether free will exists, but what is free will. However if you have a lineal view of time, if you believe in causality i can't see how you can truly believe in free will unless you alter the concept of free will. Because causality demands that your present and future are determined by a past event. When classical free will is the very ability to act without constraints of past event's, both concepts run counter to each other and thus you need to redefine what free will is in order to have an consistent position. many people do just this and there's a whole different bunch of wank dedicated redefining what free will truly is, in order to hold on to the concept.


To finish. My paradox uses the multi-universe theory. Not only are there multi-universes of future choices , there are those of previous choices creating this present where Hitler is an historical fact as is Pol Pot etc

Great discussion
Click to expand...

well if we're dealing with multi-verses or multiple time lines, then there is no paradox. the paradox is automatically bypassed because you never altered your own timeline. agree its a great discussion and truly fascinating.
 
Sydney Bloods said:
well yes, but i disagree with position that time is lineal, i was merely arguing the position that a lineal view of time presents paradoxes which would prevent time travel from occurring. My position on time is that all "time" occurs at once, your always being born always reading this thread and always dying. whether these events occur in the past, present or future depends entirely on your frame of reference. To put it in a few words rather then a wall of text: If you can't change the past and the past is only a matter of perspective, then the same must be true for the future.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I myself have wondered if all of humanity is alive at this point , or at least conscious. Following your point ''all time occurs all at once'' would allow this line of thinking to continue.



well the question becomes not whether free will exists, but what is free will. However if you have a lineal view of time, if you believe in causality i can't see how you can truly believe in free will unless you alter the concept of free will. Because causality demands that your present and future are determined by a past event. When classical free will is the very ability to act without constraints of past event's, both concepts run counter to each other and thus you need to redefine what free will is in order to have an consistent position. many people do just this and there's a whole different bunch of wank dedicated redefining what free will truly is, in order to hold on to the concept.
Click to expand...
I have a lineal view of time but I don't believe in total causality. We are in this space because of our past events but we can only change to a finite position based partly on our previous choices. I cant suddenly live in America because my previous choices have left me broke. I can work towards living in America but the past choices would only start from this point when I decide to do so.

I wonder if you have read Luke Reinharts Dice Man? Blind Free Will leads to chaos.
 
But what if time isn't actually real? We believe it is because technically we humans have invented time for our own uses. And if time doesn't actually exist then neither does time travel. Life just goes on and on with no real meaning or purpose.
But who knows ayeo_O
 
GreyCrow said:
I have a lineal view of time but I don't believe in total causality. We are in this space because of our past events but we can only change to a finite position based partly on our previous choices. I cant suddenly live in America because my previous choices have left me broke. I can work towards living in America but the past choices would only start from this point when I decide to do so.

I wonder if you have read Luke Reinharts Dice Man? Blind Free Will leads to chaos.
Click to expand...

But do you believe the future exists? That if you could time travel could you go to the future and experience things that haven't happened yet, as far as your concerned?

Because that's lineal time, its a straight line all events are simply points on string on and we're back to reference frames deciding the past, present or future. You said earlier, you see multiple futures being possible. But if we follow this from a lineal perspective, then we are already someones past. Every decision has already been made by your futureself. there may be Billions of future you's, All having chosen different paths. But whatever future you follow your still trotting down a line already set out.

To use an analogy, imagine you created a time machine totally your decision, You made the choice to travel to the future and you exit the machine you meet your future self. He knew you would here and explains that he's achieved everything in his life that he ever wanted and its all thanks to a magic book which tells you exactly what choices will lead to what outcomes and its guaranteed to work because as he explains: this has already happened from his perspective, He's already traveled to the future he's already taken the book and used it to achieve everything he ever wanted.

Now the question is this, if the past is set, if its absolutely certain and unalterable. can you truly decide to take the book of your own free will?
would you reject the book out of pride to prove you decide your fate? or do you accept it?

lets say you reject it, you travel back in time you go about life, free making your own decisions. deciding your fate, you pass a homeless bum on the street he's old missing an eye and a leg he looks like he's rotting of some strange disease. You look at him, he looks at you and smirks you suddenly realise he's you, he tell's you his deepest regret was not taking the book, he explains how everything in his life went to shit after deciding not to take the book and so in desperation he tried to travel back to that future point and get the book.

But something went wrong, he got sent to the past, broke he contracted some strange disease which was slowly killing him. suddenly he starts coughing and spluttering, he vomits blood. he looks at you and says, "whatever you do, don't use the machine ever again" he then half laughs, half coughs, "is that really how i said it?" he then rolls over and dies.

do you listen to his advice? or do you still think you control your own fate?
 
Xenthor said:
But what if time isn't actually real? We believe it is because technically we humans have invented time for our own uses. And if time doesn't actually exist then neither does time travel. Life just goes on and on with no real meaning or purpose.
But who knows ayeo_O
Click to expand...

but if it doesn't exist then what exactly is time dilatation? we've measured it after all.
 

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