- Aug 16, 2015
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Do people still think Tom Mitchell isn't worth a top 5 pick? Tore North a new one tonight, is 23 this season. Unrealistic target but he is a gun.
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Analysis 2016 List Management Discussion
- Thread starter The Old Dark Navy's
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Um Tomlinson, Hoskin Elliott and Marchbank would not just be 'depth' for Carlton...they'd clearly be easily best 22 players.
I mean, did you really just compare them to Nathan Van Berlo who is like 29 and just not very good???
Jimmae
Brownlow Medallist
I'm not going to take much out of performances played in a shoebox.
You can take 3 steps from the centre circle with the footy and shoot at goal.
ferrisb
Brownlow Medallist
Or if you're Buddy, you can skip taking 3 steps...
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Probes
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- Sep 20, 2015
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Sure he's been a little underwhelming this season, but he is coming back from a year off with injury. The kid has undeniable talent and to say he hasn't done anything at afl level just simply isn't true.
He was actually averaging more disposals than O'Meara in their first year together (where they placed 1&2 in the rising star).
If we were seriously going to take a punt on either O'Meara's knees or Crouch's hammies, my money would be on Crouch!
Blue and Silver
Brownlow Medallist
Bored at work. Time for another, too much time spent on this, Blue and Silver analysis piece.
Feel free to scroll.
The ultimate goal is a premiership. So the question that behooves us is, who on the list can play in a premiership.
Well I've had a crack:
Categories are as follows, players who would be integral, players who could play an important role, players who could fill gaps, players who could not make the grade.
Integral players are your must-haves, big name, big game guns.
Players who could play important roles are high-value role players, top level in their particular strength who add an unmistakable edge to a side.
Players filling gaps are those who wouldn't do a disservice to themselves or the team on the day.
Players who can't make the grade, couldn't make it.
We assume that a premiership is played tomorrow and all players are injury/suspension free
Players who would be INTEGRAL to a premiership:
Patrick Cripps
Important Role Players:
Marc Murphy
Bryce Gibbs
Matthew Kreuzer
Kade Simpson
Sam Docherty
Jacob Weitering
Gap-Fillers:
Sam Kerridge
Blaine Boekhorst
Jed Lamb
Sam Rowe
Liam Sumner
Lachie Plowman
Dennis Armfield
Nick Graham
Andrejs Everitt
Andrew Phillips
Ed Curnow
Dale Thomas
Michael Jamison
Levi Casboult
Zach Tuohy
Matthew Wright
Ciaran Byrne
Couldn't Make the Grade:
Andrew Walker
Jack Silvagni
Dylan Buckley
Harry Mckay
Liam Jones
Dillon Viojo-Rainbow
Kristian Jaksch
Jason Tutt
Mark Whiley
Clem Smith
Jayden Foster
David Cuningham
Charlie Curnow
Matthew Dick
Daniel Gorringe
Simon White
Ciaran Sheehan
Billy Gowers
Cameron Wood
Andrew Gallucci
Jesse Glass-McCasker
Matthew Korcheck
OK. So let's break this down a bit.
Integral players is short and sweet, Cripps is an outright gun.
Important role players has a few players with arguments for the grade up. Of those, Murphy has been integral before, Gibbs could be if he maintains form. Weitering and Docherty haven't consistently produced outright elite performances yet, but both are young enough with enough scope to become that truly exceptional type of player. Kreuzer is so important to us, but I think his injuries have limited his ceiling. Kade is my outright favourite player of all time, but his ceiling is where he is at right now.
Let's group out gap-fillers:
Still young and talented, might make the leap up to important role player:
Sam Kerridge
Blaine Boekhorst
Jed Lamb
Liam Sumner
Lachie Plowman
Ciaran Byrne
Good player, about their ceiling:
Sam Rowe
Nick Graham
Andrejs Everitt
Andrew Phillips
Ed Curnow
Levi Casboult
Zach Tuohy
Matthew Wright
On their way out, adds skill and experience:
Dennis Armfield
Dale Thomas
Michael Jamison
And then we have our couldn't make it's. More groups:
Young and Developing, too early:
Jack Silvagni
Harry Mckay
Dillon Viojo-Rainbow
Kristian Jaksch
David Cuningham
Charlie Curnow
Andrew Gallucci
Jesse Glass-McCasker
Won't make the grade in the end, too many deficiencies:
Dylan Buckley
Liam Jones
Jason Tutt
Mark Whiley
Clem Smith
Jayden Foster
Matthew Dick
Daniel Gorringe
Simon White
Ciaran Sheehan
Billy Gowers
Too little exposed form. Needs to make a move quick:
Ciaran Sheehan
Matt Korcheck
Bit too old, lost what gave them their edge:
Andrew Walker
Cameron Wood
So what do we do from here? Well if we assume that the top-end stays ok, we'd like some of our gap-fillers to develop into proper role players. But we also need to get onto to shifting the never going to make it players off the list, putting the torch on the too little exposed form guys (incl Korcheck, needs to show a reason to persist), talking to the guys on the way out about their transition plans and start getting the young, developing types some senior experience, as is warranted of course.
My 2c anyway.
Feel free to scroll.
The ultimate goal is a premiership. So the question that behooves us is, who on the list can play in a premiership.
Well I've had a crack:
Categories are as follows, players who would be integral, players who could play an important role, players who could fill gaps, players who could not make the grade.
Integral players are your must-haves, big name, big game guns.
Players who could play important roles are high-value role players, top level in their particular strength who add an unmistakable edge to a side.
Players filling gaps are those who wouldn't do a disservice to themselves or the team on the day.
Players who can't make the grade, couldn't make it.
We assume that a premiership is played tomorrow and all players are injury/suspension free
Players who would be INTEGRAL to a premiership:
Patrick Cripps
Important Role Players:
Marc Murphy
Bryce Gibbs
Matthew Kreuzer
Kade Simpson
Sam Docherty
Jacob Weitering
Gap-Fillers:
Sam Kerridge
Blaine Boekhorst
Jed Lamb
Sam Rowe
Liam Sumner
Lachie Plowman
Dennis Armfield
Nick Graham
Andrejs Everitt
Andrew Phillips
Ed Curnow
Dale Thomas
Michael Jamison
Levi Casboult
Zach Tuohy
Matthew Wright
Ciaran Byrne
Couldn't Make the Grade:
Andrew Walker
Jack Silvagni
Dylan Buckley
Harry Mckay
Liam Jones
Dillon Viojo-Rainbow
Kristian Jaksch
Jason Tutt
Mark Whiley
Clem Smith
Jayden Foster
David Cuningham
Charlie Curnow
Matthew Dick
Daniel Gorringe
Simon White
Ciaran Sheehan
Billy Gowers
Cameron Wood
Andrew Gallucci
Jesse Glass-McCasker
Matthew Korcheck
OK. So let's break this down a bit.
Integral players is short and sweet, Cripps is an outright gun.
Important role players has a few players with arguments for the grade up. Of those, Murphy has been integral before, Gibbs could be if he maintains form. Weitering and Docherty haven't consistently produced outright elite performances yet, but both are young enough with enough scope to become that truly exceptional type of player. Kreuzer is so important to us, but I think his injuries have limited his ceiling. Kade is my outright favourite player of all time, but his ceiling is where he is at right now.
Let's group out gap-fillers:
Still young and talented, might make the leap up to important role player:
Sam Kerridge
Blaine Boekhorst
Jed Lamb
Liam Sumner
Lachie Plowman
Ciaran Byrne
Good player, about their ceiling:
Sam Rowe
Nick Graham
Andrejs Everitt
Andrew Phillips
Ed Curnow
Levi Casboult
Zach Tuohy
Matthew Wright
On their way out, adds skill and experience:
Dennis Armfield
Dale Thomas
Michael Jamison
And then we have our couldn't make it's. More groups:
Young and Developing, too early:
Jack Silvagni
Harry Mckay
Dillon Viojo-Rainbow
Kristian Jaksch
David Cuningham
Charlie Curnow
Andrew Gallucci
Jesse Glass-McCasker
Won't make the grade in the end, too many deficiencies:
Dylan Buckley
Liam Jones
Jason Tutt
Mark Whiley
Clem Smith
Jayden Foster
Matthew Dick
Daniel Gorringe
Simon White
Ciaran Sheehan
Billy Gowers
Too little exposed form. Needs to make a move quick:
Ciaran Sheehan
Matt Korcheck
Bit too old, lost what gave them their edge:
Andrew Walker
Cameron Wood
So what do we do from here? Well if we assume that the top-end stays ok, we'd like some of our gap-fillers to develop into proper role players. But we also need to get onto to shifting the never going to make it players off the list, putting the torch on the too little exposed form guys (incl Korcheck, needs to show a reason to persist), talking to the guys on the way out about their transition plans and start getting the young, developing types some senior experience, as is warranted of course.
My 2c anyway.
The Bulldogs have shown it is possible to start challenging that quickly...port did as well even though they are doing poorly now.
It's ambitious and everything would have to go right, but I think it's possible that we can challenge for a flag with Murphy and Gibbs still around if we continue this steep improvement curve and recruit players like tomlinson and some mids
Edit: Geelong were on the slide..they went big last trade period trading draft picks for players that filled needs and now they are in premiership contention.
How quickly could we rise if this off season we got tomlinson, Marchbank and prestia for example? Even if it meant trading virtually all our draft picks this year so what that's 3 young guns.
- Oct 7, 2014
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Sign me up DD. We massively win this one.
"Goddess" - Moderator
- #4,984
Forget Tom Mitchell.
On the verge of re-signing with Sydney.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...s/news-story/999fa8d2f3c905b82c0ac9a2e8fcbffd
Why is everyone writing off Clem Smith? Still just a kid and obviously needs to build a tank but he has a great attack on the ball and offers Carlton an x-factor they don't really have right now.
He's currently playing a difficult position to make a consistent impact and he may have some mental demons to work through but I would love to see this kid get a good run at it.
He's currently playing a difficult position to make a consistent impact and he may have some mental demons to work through but I would love to see this kid get a good run at it.
I don't think everyone is doing anything. Clem hasn't been doing enough at VFL level to earn a spot in the seniors, so his chances for being on the list next year are diminishing. He is definitely one I'd like to see get a crack, but if he's not putting in the effort then someone else will.
Maybe not everyone but I have read a stack of posts putting him on notice for delisting.
He probably is on notice. He might not want to hear it on BF but he might be hearing it from Sos. Needs to get moving.
Have tried to get him last year when he wasn't getting a regular game with Swans, but still declined out offer. But, what if we offered him a deal he couldn't refuse. Has a connection at Carlton with his old man Barry playing 38 games, and coaching our the Northern Bullants for a few years. Could we afford to give him a big offer? Is a ball magnet, and would love him at our club. What sort of offer could we give that he just couldn't refuse? Could we afford 1st Round pick to Swans. And $800000 @5yrs
- Moderator
- #4,991
He has more of a connection with Sydney where Barry played 170 games.
Can't see it happening at all.
Yep, you were bored all right.
Here's a quicker version ...........
Players Of Genuine Quality
Patrick Cripps, Marc Murphy, Bryce Gibbs, Sam Docherty, Jacob Weitering, Lachie Plowman, Ciaran Byrne
Some Will Make It, Some Won't
Matthew Kreuzer, Liam Sumner, Andrew Phillips, Jack Silvagni, Harry McKay, David Cuningham, Charlie Curnow, Jesse Glass-McCasker, Dylan Buckley, Kristian Jaksch, Blaine Boekhorst, Sam Kerridge,
Not Going To Be Around Long Enough
Kade Simpson, Jed Lamb, Sam Rowe, Dennis Armfield, Nick Graham, Andrejs Everitt, Ed Curnow, Dale Thomas, Michael Jamison, Levi Casboult, Zach Tuohy, Matthew Wright, Andrew Walker, Dylan Buckley, Liam Jones, Dillon Viojo-Rainbow, Jason Tutt, Mark Whiley, Clem Smith, Jayden Foster, Matthew Dick, Daniel Gorringe, Simon White, Ciaran Sheehan, Billy Gowers, Cameron Wood, Andrew Gallucci, Matthew Korcheck
- Apr 16, 2008
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I suspect a big name player of ours will be up for trade come the end of this season. It's all part of it imo.
I'm not saying it should be Gibbs, but I'm wondering peoples thoughts on a scenario like the following?
- We trade Gibbs to Gws along with our first (currently pick 7)
- We receive Marchbank, Tomlinson, gws' ontraded first round pick from Collingwood (currently pick 8. I expect by the end of this season for it to be approx 12) and gws' first or the one they received from Geelong (let's say pick 16)
Again, I'm not saying trade Gibbs or if this is a realistic option. Just having a Saturday think.
We then could offer pick 12 to freo for Lachie Neale.
Who knows after that. We could potentially chase Prestia with pick 16 or something added to it and I'd very much like to see us go after Mayes from Brisbane and Crouch from Adelaide. Feel there's huge upside with these 2 players that wouldn't cost a first round pick.
I think if we could add Neale, Prestia, Mayes, Crouch, Marchbank and Tomlinson in this off season our club, it would have a huge new look to it with the upside significant.
Just spitballing people.
I'm not saying it should be Gibbs, but I'm wondering peoples thoughts on a scenario like the following?
- We trade Gibbs to Gws along with our first (currently pick 7)
- We receive Marchbank, Tomlinson, gws' ontraded first round pick from Collingwood (currently pick 8. I expect by the end of this season for it to be approx 12) and gws' first or the one they received from Geelong (let's say pick 16)
Again, I'm not saying trade Gibbs or if this is a realistic option. Just having a Saturday think.
We then could offer pick 12 to freo for Lachie Neale.
Who knows after that. We could potentially chase Prestia with pick 16 or something added to it and I'd very much like to see us go after Mayes from Brisbane and Crouch from Adelaide. Feel there's huge upside with these 2 players that wouldn't cost a first round pick.
I think if we could add Neale, Prestia, Mayes, Crouch, Marchbank and Tomlinson in this off season our club, it would have a huge new look to it with the upside significant.
Just spitballing people.
thylacine60
Post-Human
- Banned
- #4,994
What is it with some posters? Everyone writing Smith off now? Can we cool the jets on these unhelpful exaggerations? Just because it suits a narrative to suggest a player is getting hard done by, it is rarely the case when "everyone" agrees on anything around here. Sheesh..........
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All the above names would be great but their trade/$$$ cost and injury risk are a concern for me and we cannot afford to sell the farm. Prefer to draft the best and watch BB develop it, unless we get great trade deals.
Last year we looked at Mitchell and Tomlinson because they were not rated, and SOS tried to get them for a good trade deal. This year both have improved, so SOS was right.
To find new midfield talent we need to identify under-valued players (we did not go hard at Treloar last year) who can improve at CFC or get the best of the draft.
Bolton has shown a great ability to improve our players which is a huge positive!
Last year we got for zero trade cost Matthew Wright
He has now had 103 Games is 26yr 5mth, 179cm and 78kg. (He can be around for another 5 years)
Was selected in 2011 National Draft Round 5, Pick #82 (low trade cost as ceiling not considered high)
If you compare his 2016 average Stats with Season 2015 he has improved significantly at CFC:
9 Games 16
11.4 Kicks Per Game 8.9
9.9 Handballs Per Game 5.4
21.3 Disposals Per Game 14.3
3.7 Marks Per Game 2.7
0.8 Goals Per Game 0.3
0.3 Behinds Per Game 0.2
3.9 Tackles Per Game 2.4
0.9 Frees For Per Game 0.7
8.8 Contested Possessions Per Game 5.5
12.3 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 8.6
14.8 Effective Disposals Per Game 9.2
69.5% Effective Disposals % Per Game 64.3%
3.2 Clearances Per Game 2.0
0.7 One Percenters Per Game 0.5
84.2 Time On Ground % Per Game 73.2
85.2 AFL Fantasy Score Per Game 55.9
89.1 Supercoach Score Per Game 54.6
If we cannot get multi-trades from GWS, hopefully SOS can use our - salary cap/AFL game opportunity/Big 4/etc. - selling points to fill holes in our list.
And BB can develop and improve our existing list by playing guys in their best role (not filling gaps like Rowe last week).
Wright is a significant upgrade on Bell for no cost but we must add real top end quality.
Last edited:
Won't necessarily be at the Dee's, it will come down to best fit and terms of contract.
Bottom line is he will be IN Melbourne next year but not necessarily at Melbourne
thylacine60
Post-Human
- Banned
- #4,997
Exciting to know that regardless of what happens our team will be stronger again this time 12 months from now................won't it?
Trust in SOS to get us some more Wright-esque bargains. There were whispers that SOS was trying to pick Brad McKenzie up as a DFA last year, don't think there would've been much interest for him at other clubs, but now he's in North's side and playing well.
So GWS give up basically all their points Tomlinson and Marchbank for pick 7 and Gibbs?
Wickzki
Definitely Sam MacLure.
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With Brisbane targeting Jenkins and other mid career KPs do we have any interest in any of their younger ones that may be pushed out? If there is one thing that they have its loads of young KP's.
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