Langford

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Jesus we're a useless clearance team and want to drop one of our better clearance players?

Has me staggered.

We want to drop our clearance players like Langford because they don't use the ball that well' and we want to drop our outside runners like Hill and Hartung because they don't go and put their head down and get the ball enough.

Sheesh.

 

[savagebradley]

Has me staggered.

We want to drop our clearance players like Langford because they don't use the ball that well' and we want to drop our outside runners like Hill and Hartung because they don't go and put their head down and get the ball enough.

Sheesh.

I agree: I'm sure Clarko loves his manic attack on the ball and the opposition.
It allows our more creative players to stand away from the pack and find options.

And the poster above talking about weaknesses in the team, there were always 2 or 3 players in our premiership teams in the 1970's and 1980's who wouldn't get a game in other clubs of the day.
But they played their roles.

For example, Google "David Polkinghorne" and "Mike McCarthy".

 

[bris tarangau]

I agree: I'm sure Clarko loves his manic attack on the ball and the opposition.
It allows our more creative players to stand away from the pack and find options.

And the poster above talking about weaknesses in the team, there were always 2 or 3 players in our premiership teams in the 1970's and 1980's who wouldn't get a game in other clubs of the day.
But they played their roles.

For example, Google "David Polkinghorne" and "Mike McCarthy".

As long as he leaves enough room in the f50 for our mosquito fleet to do their thing.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I hate to say it but he would be in the discussions to be dropped for mitchell and hodge. Our gameplan is built on ball retention.

 

[MC_9]

Jesus we're a useless clearance team and want to drop one of our better clearance players?

But what's the point of being a good clearance/ contested player, if you are just going to turn the ball over straight away.

It's great that he gets the ball out of congestion, but he either handpass to a teammate's feet or just completely misses the target. It is an enormous weakness, considering out gameplan is built around ball retention. Even if just improved his hand passing and just looked to release the outside players (Brad Sewell made a career out of it), rather than trying to step around 2 players and blaze away. He needs to learn to play with his limitations.

The other major weakness that seems to be overlooked is that he just doesn't find enough of the pill for an out and out midfielder. He is only averaging 17 possessions a game, which is not great.

 

[Hong Kong Hawk]

I agree: I'm sure Clarko loves his manic attack on the ball and the opposition.
It allows our more creative players to stand away from the pack and find options.

And the poster above talking about weaknesses in the team, there were always 2 or 3 players in our premiership teams in the 1970's and 1980's who wouldn't get a game in other clubs of the day.
But they played their roles.

For example, Google "David Polkinghorne" and "Mike McCarthy".

McCarthy was only 192cms and played second ruck in a GF to simply compete with Simon Madden - +200cms and one of the greatest of all time. McCarthy did exactly what the team needed him to (along with Ian Paton). No Norm Smith medals, but absolutely played his part.

Watch the 83 GF - they stopped Madden hitting it to absolute advantage, and Wallace, Tuck etc picked him off all day.

 

[Boo71]

I hate to say it but he would be in the discussions to be dropped for mitchell and hodge. Our gameplan is built on ball retention.

Even above Stewart you think if we are taking about center grunt work?

Going forward is what I'm leading up to. Does Stewart have a big enough engine at this stage to replace Langers at the business end etc to help out Shiels, Lewis, Mitch and Hodge in the absolute grunt work?

Langers stays

For me, his positives outweigh his negatives

In the top 3 for contested possessions, clearances and tackles at Hawthorn this year. These are his strong points

His weaknesses; disposal efficiency and clangers he is in the bottom three at the club. However interestingly enough Shiels and Breust are the two worst disposal efficiency (But both contribute incredibly in other areas) and Lewis and Mitchell are leading our clangers list ahead of Langford

Each player has strengths and weaknesses. As long as he continues to contribute in his strengths areas, he stays in the side

Yet Shiels is never taken to task on here for this, like Langers is in this thread - just saying about the double standards on here about certain players. I love what Shiels brings to the table, but if people want to call a spade a spade they need to be consistent across the board and not play favorites.

As another poster said he doesn't think we can carry both Shiels and Langford in the same team - I agree - but going forward I do believe Langford could play the lock down role that Shiels has always done - freeing up Shiels for other things. Even making Shiels a free running mid, the leader of the pack once Mitch and Lewis are gone, is not going to work because his disposal is just as bad as Langers.

As for Bruest being maybe the worst, its easy to see why with the way he handballs in the center, worst handballer I've seen, he should play for the dogs who can just throw it - he just shouldn't be in the center or told to never ever handball

 

[Gralin]

I hate to say it but he would be in the discussions to be dropped for mitchell and hodge. Our gameplan is built on ball retention.

I have no issue with this, squads win flags, if Langer's helps us get there but isn't going to help us win then that's footy.
We will always have 2014 where he stepped into the hole left by a fading Sewell and gave us some great memories

I would love him to find the improvement in disposal and decision making but I don't know that it is in his personality. The way he plays is beyond manic sometimes and he is his own worst enemy.

If he could harness it like Poppy does to give that 100% effort but play within his limitations then he is a chance but he has to fit our game plan moving forward.

I don't see him getting any better playing at box hill though as his issue something I think a slower tempo game can fix.

 

[tommyk72]

If he could harness it like Poppy does to give that 100% effort but play within his limitations then he is a chance but he has to fit our game plan moving forward.

Poppy was only about Will's age now when he came to the club. I reckon harnessing that kind of manic aggression will most likely come in the next few years.

 

[Gralin]

Poppy was only about Will's age now when he came to the club. I reckon harnessing that kind of manic aggression will most likely come in the next few years.

I'd love to think so, Poppy has really improved as a player since coming over. This season he has stepped up big time, he's always had no fear, great effort and physical tools. His skills and smarts have caught up to the rest and he's a really damaging player for us now who impacts offensively as well as defensively.

He also has 80 games on Langers but he knew how to play within himself earlier I believe.

Different role but it's something to remember I guess

 

[Brant]

His kicking generally is pretty good, gets a fair bit of penetration
It's just that something happens in his brain between the time the ball leaves his hand and when it hits his foot, almost like his brain says "what the hell am I doing", and the kick goes astray.

Firstly, I don't think Clarko would be unhappy with his manic attack on the ball.
Secondly, I think he will still improve.

Those saying "he's been in the system" - that really is meaningless.

The only thing that counts is playing in a real game.

If the only thing that matters is real game time then why bother training all week? Why not just play intra-club matches every second day? Then Langers could kick straight!?

Why then can Zac Dawson still not defend?

Langers can absolutely kick well on occasion, but 30 seconds later can miss a 40m target by 8+metres. That's not to do with games played (IMO), I don't know how 30 more games would rule that out.

 

[Gralin]

If the only thing that matters is real game time then why bother training all week? Why not just play intra-club matches every second day? Then Langers could kick straight!?

Why then can Zac Dawson still not defend?

Langers can absolutely kick well on occasion, but 30 seconds later can miss a 40m target by 8+metres. That's not to do with games played (IMO), I don't know how 30 more games would rule that out.

All true it really comes down to what growth as a player the club believes he has and how best to unlock it

 

[Great 2008]

I recall him streaming out of the centre square, receiving a handball from Hodge and goaling from 50.......

I can't imagine that happening again.

I agree. Where the hell is that Langford? I want him back.

Langers flaws cost him another premiership medal last year. His finals game against West Coast was win ball turn it over. He often telegraphs his disposals as well.

The frustration fans have arise from the fact we have also seen him do some brilliant stuff. Just not as much recently. Most Hawk fans concede if he sharpened up his skills he would be elite and that is what we need right now.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

I hate to say it but he would be in the discussions to be dropped for mitchell and hodge. Our gameplan is built on ball retention.

Yep but you've got to get it to be able to hold on to it.

He's one of the few that can do that....

 

[BlueWaterHawk]

My impression is that for the roll he's playing, he could use a bit more weight to stand up in tackles. His poor disposal is often a result of an opposition player hanging off him at the time. Perhaps he could give himself the little bit more time with a heavier body.

It may not work that way though, he may just lose acceleration instead.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

 

[TheFourPillars]

Yep but you've got to get it to be able to hold on to it.

He's one of the few that can do that....

Mate its also pointless if you get it and give straight to your opponents

 

[randall boner]

Mate its also pointless if you get it and give straight to your opponents

Agree and coaches also dropped for Norf game understandably so the turnover king

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Sad to see him dropped again.

 

[bradburygold]

Possible Howe has just moved ahead of him in coaches eyes and they prefer speed on the shitihad (hartung the other im supposing close to getting dropped)

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Possible Howe has just moved ahead of him in coaches eyes and they prefer speed on the shitihad (hartung the other im supposing close to getting dropped)

Different sort of players though aren't they? Howe more a utility than plays down back and can have stints on the ball, Langers a ball hunting mid that can have stints providing pressure up forward.

 

[Tyrone Time]

DE 73.7% gets dropped.
Lucky Clarko wasn't reading the DE of a few senior blokes a month ago.

 

[bradburygold]

Different sort of players though aren't they? Howe more a utility than plays down back and can have stints on the ball, Langers a ball hunting mid that can have stints providing pressure up forward.

Of course but mitchell has come in, and also the combination of roles/team balance and them looking to give howe more exposure in the midfield, contribute to him not having a spot this week

 

[bigton08]

Sad to see him dropped again.. Don't know where to for him he seems on the outer every other week... Things haven't improved with him on the off season so I just dunno what will happen to him... Maybe he just hasn't got the goods ... It's a damn shame.

 

[TheFourPillars]

DE 73.7% gets dropped.
Lucky Clarko wasn't reading the DE of a few senior blokes a month ago.

Look thats why stats some times lie you just have to watch the game to know he hasn't been great by hand or foot

 

[Gralin]

The biggest issue with Disposal efficiency is context.
Short kick to a team mate under no pressure 1 effective disposal
Long kick to a 50/50 your team loses that results in a turn over 1 effective disposal
As far as I'm aware kick out in front for a team mate to run onto uncontested not an effective disposal.

You could kick long to a contest, missing the shorter option, turn it over and still get an effective disposal.

One of Jordy's 70 metre barrels for Poppy to win a foot race not an effective disposal