Analysis The Matt Taberner effect

Sep 30, 2005
53,069
47,970
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Freo and Bulldogs, ManU
He's still a poor mark, that he takes as many contested marks as he does is because he's very good at getting clean hands to the ball in contested situations. If he was a good mark he'd be averaging 4-5 CM a game. And that is no exaggeration - I know that would be comfortably the league leader.

If we could actually get an arm chop paid to our guys he'd be a monster
 
Nov 8, 2000
33,295
21,790
South of the river
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Peel Thunder
So, he's a poor mark because he's good at contested marks???

Your logic is somewhat improbable at best. He's Freo's leader in contested marks by some margin this year. That includes a pretty handy lead over 'good' marks like Pav, who has had more ball sent his way over the course of the season.

He's Freo's leading contested marker because he's a good mark. He uses his sized and mobility to good effect and I think he will continue to improve in that area. To say he's a poor mark when the stats clearly show the opposite...well somebody has completely missed the point

What stats show the opposite? A simple contested mark per game stat doesn't prove whether or not you're good at actually holding the ball. If you take 2 contested marks when you've had a reasonable chance to take 20 then that clearly doesn't say much for your marking ability.

Tomorrow, count the number of times Tabs gets clean hands to a ball in a contested marking situation. He's bloody brilliant at it. What he's ordinary at is actually clutching the ball once it hits his hands. He does it now and then, hence why he usually takes a couple of CMs per game. But that doesn't prove he's a good mark.
 
Apr 16, 2014
10,369
23,286
AFL Club
Fremantle
What stats show the opposite? A simple contested mark per game stat doesn't prove whether or not you're good at actually holding the ball. If you take 2 contested marks when you've had a reasonable chance to take 20 then that clearly doesn't say much for your marking ability.

Tomorrow, count the number of times Tabs gets clean hands to a ball in a contested marking situation. He's bloody brilliant at it. What he's ordinary at is actually clutching the ball once it hits his hands. He does it now and then, hence why he usually takes a couple of CMs per game. But that doesn't prove he's a good mark.
and you don't think that's the case for most forwards?

Do you think Franklin/Kennedy/Dixon/Walker get more opportunities to take a contested mark than Tabs or less?


All these forwards below will be getting more balls delivered in their direction than Tabs yet they have less contested marks on average.
Kennedy
Riewoldt x2
Dixon
Waite
Franklin
Walker
Bruce

No player clunks them all. Tabs for the most part now either wins it or stops the opposition from getting a mark and creates a loose ball.
 
Nov 8, 2000
33,295
21,790
South of the river
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Peel Thunder
and you don't think that's the case for most forwards?

Do you think Franklin/Kennedy/Dixon/Walker get more opportunities to take a contested mark than Tabs or less?


All these forwards below will be getting more balls delivered in their direction than Tabs yet they have less contested marks on average.
Kennedy
Riewoldt x2
Dixon
Waite
Franklin
Walker
Bruce

No player clunks them all. Tabs for the most part now either wins it or stops the opposition from getting a mark and creates a loose ball.

I'm not questioning his worth to the team by any stretch, just saying he is elite at actually getting clean hands to the ball in a marking contest (as good as anyone going around IMO) but is still relatively s**t at catching the ball.

But i'm not going to compare him to most in that list. There's a lot more to being a good key forward than just clunking marks. Tabs agility could do with some improvement for example.
 

Kunna17

Club Legend
Oct 9, 2012
2,047
668
AFL Club
Fremantle
I'm not questioning his worth to the team by any stretch, just saying he is elite at actually getting clean hands to the ball in a marking contest (as good as anyone going around IMO) but is still relatively s**t at catching the ball.

But i'm not going to compare him to most in that list. There's a lot more to being a good key forward than just clunking marks. Tabs agility could do with some improvement for example.
i agree with you, but the first part is still a part of the mark. As such I would say he is quite a good contested mark, despite the fact he drops a few, as the first part of actually taking the mark is getting hands there.
 

scon

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 19, 2009
11,594
16,624
western australia
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Long haired Champs.
I've got bugger all to criticise about the rate of his development; as a rookie selection I'm very happy with the way he's tracking and have zero doubt that if he manages to continue this way we'll have snookered a serious KPF bargain.
His entire game is improving at a very acceptable rate.
If his development somehow stalls we'll still have a very serviceable tall.
 

meima

Cancelled
10k Posts
Jun 5, 2015
13,172
8,797
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Liverpool
Rookie list i consider Tab a bargain, will definetely not rate him as highly as other. Hope our trend continue with nyhuis and uber and a few rookie this year. A fit and firing fyfe will be the filling gap for pav.
 
Last edited:
Oct 7, 2007
11,151
14,183
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
East Freo, Liverpool, Cardinals
What stats show the opposite? A simple contested mark per game stat doesn't prove whether or not you're good at actually holding the ball. If you take 2 contested marks when you've had a reasonable chance to take 20 then that clearly doesn't say much for your marking ability.

Tomorrow, count the number of times Tabs gets clean hands to a ball in a contested marking situation. He's bloody brilliant at it. What he's ordinary at is actually clutching the ball once it hits his hands. He does it now and then, hence why he usually takes a couple of CMs per game. But that doesn't prove he's a good mark.

Seriously?

He's Freo's leading contested mark by a long way. Thats the stat that says he's a good mark.

If he was a bad mark, he simply wouldn't be taking so many. As for your scenario of having a chance at 20, that only shows you don't watch many games. Most of the ball going into the forward 50 goes to Pav not Tabs yet Tabs is well in front on the marking stats. What you're actually saying here is Pav is a poor mark not Tabs....and you'd be flat wrong again.

You do not get to be the best contested mark in the side because your crap at marking. Its a fairly simple concept unless you are wanting to push a dead argument
 
Nov 8, 2000
33,295
21,790
South of the river
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Peel Thunder
Seriously?

He's Freo's leading contested mark by a long way. Thats the stat that says he's a good mark.

If he was a bad mark, he simply wouldn't be taking so many. As for your scenario of having a chance at 20, that only shows you don't watch many games.

My scenario? It was a hypothetical to show that one stat - being contested marks per game - isn't irrefutable proof of anything.

Most of the ball going into the forward 50 goes to Pav not Tabs yet Tabs is well in front on the marking stats. What you're actually saying here is Pav is a poor mark not Tabs....and you'd be flat wrong again.

You do not get to be the best contested mark in the side because your crap at marking. Its a fairly simple concept unless you are wanting to push a dead argument

Must have imagined all those marks he drops where he does 90% of the work and simply doesn't hang on to the ball.
 
Oct 7, 2007
11,151
14,183
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
East Freo, Liverpool, Cardinals
My scenario? It was a hypothetical to show that one stat - being contested marks per game - isn't irrefutable proof of anything.

Must have imagined all those marks he drops where he does 90% of the work and simply doesn't hang on to the ball.

It was a hypothetical that is demonstrably incorrect. All you have to do is watch a few games. He gets much less ball his way because our midfield concentrates on Pav, yet Tabs is our leading contested mark. Ok from far fewer opportunities. So, there goes your hypothetical.

I compare him to Pav because he's one of the best marks in our team and Tabs stacks up pretty well. As others have correctly pointed out, if he got the umpires to apply the rules to him that they apply to other bigger name players, he'd be getting a lot more frees for the arm chops that are reducing his marking stats.

Anyway, lets get down to tin tacks. I've shown you stats that refute what you are saying and you reply with hypotheticals. Show me the stats for dropped marks, those with no interference like arm chops or head high hits
 
Nov 8, 2000
33,295
21,790
South of the river
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Peel Thunder
It was a hypothetical that is demonstrably incorrect. All you have to do is watch a few games. He gets much less ball his way because our midfield concentrates on Pav, yet Tabs is our leading contested mark. Ok from far fewer opportunities. So, there goes your hypothetical.

I compare him to Pav because he's one of the best marks in our team and Tabs stacks up pretty well. As others have correctly pointed out, if he got the umpires to apply the rules to him that they apply to other bigger name players, he'd be getting a lot more frees for the arm chops that are reducing his marking stats.

Anyway, lets get down to tin tacks. I've shown you stats that refute what you are saying and you reply with hypotheticals. Show me the stats for dropped marks, those with no interference like arm chops or head high hits

So because a statistic isn't taken, it therefore doesn't exist? Really?
 
Oct 7, 2007
11,151
14,183
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
East Freo, Liverpool, Cardinals
So because a statistic isn't taken, it therefore doesn't exist? Really?

No, its pointing out how your argument has no substance.

You ignore the facts you don't like my making up hypotheticals to try and suggest they have no meaning but have no g=factual material to support your absurd contention. Forget your stupid hypotheticals. Show facts or bugger off back to the eagles
 
Nov 8, 2000
33,295
21,790
South of the river
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Peel Thunder
No, its pointing out how your argument has no substance.

You ignore the facts you don't like my making up hypotheticals to try and suggest they have no meaning but have no g=factual material to support your absurd contention. Forget your stupid hypotheticals. Show facts or bugger off back to the eagles

You see, I actually watch the games.

And 'bugger off back to the eagles'? Where dafuqq did that come from?
 
Nov 8, 2000
33,295
21,790
South of the river
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Peel Thunder
Stop ignoring whats been put to you. Put up facts not bullshit hypotheticals. Oh, you have none so you continue to deflect

Put up facts? It's an opinion based on watching the game. There is no stat (that i'm aware of) that demonstrates ability to outmaneuver opponents but not quite complete the mark. Consequently I can't provide one. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Are you the sort of person that determines the worth of players purely based on supercoach scores?
 
Oct 7, 2007
11,151
14,183
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
East Freo, Liverpool, Cardinals
Put up facts? It's an opinion based on watching the game. There is no stat (that i'm aware of) that demonstrates ability to outmaneuver opponents but not quite complete the mark. Consequently I can't provide one. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Are you the sort of person that determines the worth of players purely based on supercoach scores?

No Im the sort of person that calls out bullshit when its put up. You're the sort of person that can't handle that.

Tabs is far better than you want to admit, god knows what you hope to achieve with this s**t
 
Nov 8, 2000
33,295
21,790
South of the river
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Peel Thunder
No Im the sort of person that calls out bullshit when its put up. You're the sort of person that can't handle that.

Tabs is far better than you want to admit, god knows what you hope to achieve with this s**t

Eh? I rate Tabs pretty highly, and have said so many times in this thread. And you reckon i'm making s**t up?

Pull your head in.
 
Oct 7, 2007
11,151
14,183
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
East Freo, Liverpool, Cardinals
Eh? I rate Tabs pretty highly, and have said so many times in this thread. And you reckon i'm making s**t up?

Pull your head in.

Good. I say again. Show facts.

All I've seen is you saying he is a poor mark. Should be averaging 5 contested marks per game...something nobody else has achieved...then making up s**t about having 20 dropped marks per game (hypothetically speaking of course)

You have no clue
 
Nov 8, 2000
33,295
21,790
South of the river
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Peel Thunder
Good. I say again. Show facts.

All I've seen is you saying he is a poor mark. Should be averaging 5 contested marks per game...something nobody else has achieved...then making up s**t about having 20 dropped marks per game (hypothetically speaking of course)

You have no clue

Whatever you reckon sunshine.

Zac Dawson led our DE one year. With facts like that, what a champion kick he must be.
 
Back