How many Premierships has Carlton bought?

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Do you or any other Blues fans seriously believe you are in front on that trade Murphy got more possesions in his 1st year than those 2 combined have in the 2 years since the trade. We got a backup ruckman (which is exactly what we desperately needed) who had been AA. His 2004 was better than expected & he did everything we could have possibly hoped. He was a big risk but compaired to Banister who has done & will do zero we got the better return. Allan's 2004 better than Banisters 2004/2005.
Murphy's 2005 was a bit dissapointing. He played some good footy (was oustanding against the Saints) but overall his output was not up to standard. I would still rate his 2005 higher than Mcgrath's. Then when you consider Murphy's 2004 we are so far in front its not funny. One thing you seem to be overlooking Blues is that Mcgrath is not young. If he was still 20/21 you could say there's room for improvement but he's been around for 6 years now & not been able to cement a spot. I would much rather 1 year of good footy from a player than 3-4 years of nothing.

cant say I agree ...

Bannister is still only 23 and should have a decent season this year like in 2004 given his pre-season improvement and dominance in the VFL during last years finals campaign.

McGrath is around 26/27 but he managed to average around 12 possessions a game and held down the HBF as his own.

whereas the 2 players we sent u have both now retired after 2 seasons of football. - and Murph was ur public whipping boy, Bomber fans blame him for your finals loss in 2004 (or maybe thats just the Bomber fans I know)

I would much rather 1 year of good footy from a player than 3-4 years of nothing.

I'd much rather 3-4 years of solid performances with years ahead of them, than just 1 year of good footy from a player who then retires

 

[Silvagnis]

Do you or any other Blues fans seriously believe you are in front on that trade Murphy got more possesions in his 1st year than those 2 combined have in the 2 years since the trade. We got a backup ruckman (which is exactly what we desperately needed) who had been AA. His 2004 was better than expected & he did everything we could have possibly hoped. He was a big risk but compaired to Banister who has done & will do zero we got the better return. Allan's 2004 better than Banisters 2004/2005.
Murphy's 2005 was a bit dissapointing. He played some good footy (was oustanding against the Saints) but overall his output was not up to standard. I would still rate his 2005 higher than Mcgrath's. Then when you consider Murphy's 2004 we are so far in front its not funny. One thing you seem to be overlooking Blues is that Mcgrath is not young. If he was still 20/21 you could say there's room for improvement but he's been around for 6 years now & not been able to cement a spot. I would much rather 1 year of good footy from a player than 3-4 years of nothing.

Is Murphy still playing?

Possessions don't mean squat if you let your opponent run free, e.g. Camporeale's 31 possessions in round 21.

How many goals did Dyson kick again?

 

[mediumsizered]

Do you or any other Blues fans seriously believe you are in front on that trade Murphy got more possesions in his 1st year than those 2 combined have in the 2 years since the trade. We got a backup ruckman (which is exactly what we desperately needed) who had been AA. His 2004 was better than expected & he did everything we could have possibly hoped. He was a big risk but compaired to Banister who has done & will do zero we got the better return. Allan's 2004 better than Banisters 2004/2005.
Murphy's 2005 was a bit dissapointing. He played some good footy (was oustanding against the Saints) but overall his output was not up to standard. I would still rate his 2005 higher than Mcgrath's. Then when you consider Murphy's 2004 we are so far in front its not funny. One thing you seem to be overlooking Blues is that Mcgrath is not young. If he was still 20/21 you could say there's room for improvement but he's been around for 6 years now & not been able to cement a spot. I would much rather 1 year of good footy from a player than 3-4 years of nothing.

It is amusing the way the Essendon supporters have defended Murphy. Yes he had one good season at Essendon. That was Murphy throughout his career. One good season at Richmond, then gone. One good season at Carlton, then gone. One good season at Geelong, then gone. One good season at Carlton etc.

It is fascinating that they also think they actually benefitted from having Allan and Murphy play one good season and then falling away significantly. Have none of these Essendon supporters noticed that they didn't make the finals in 2005? So what benefit was gained from the recruitment of these 2. They have still not overcome their ruck problem and they have had to recruit 2 more recycled midfielders (if you can call them that). I am going to keep fossicking around to see if I can find the benefits derived from Allan and Murphy, but if anyone can offer me some clues, it might save me a lot of time.

 

[mediumsizered]

....

 

[celtic_pride]

FWIW Bannister is nothing special and should have been delisted.

 

[blueheart]

Interstate drafting was fine a good recruiting tactic back then.
It is however, common knowledge that their salary cap cheating throughout the 90's stole them the 1995 flag. That's why they were punished so highly a few years ago. I for one love seeing them down the bottom and hope it continues for this year.

95 still hurts doesn't it

 

[OB1]

cant say I agree ...

Bannister is still only 23 and should have a decent season this year like in 2004 given his pre-season improvement and dominance in the VFL during last years finals campaign.

McGrath is around 26/27 but he managed to average around 12 possessions a game and held down the HBF as his own.

whereas the 2 players we sent u have both now retired after 2 seasons of football. - and Murph was ur public whipping boy, Bomber fans blame him for your finals loss in 2004 (or maybe thats just the Bomber fans I know)



I'd much rather 3-4 years of solid performances with years ahead of them, than just 1 year of good footy from a player who then retires

If I thought for 1 second that Mcgrath or Bannister could offer us anything then you might have a point BUT the fact is they were not required at Essendon & wouldn't be required now. If either have a good year in 2006 then you have every right to believe you gained from the trade but as it stands now we got more out of Murphy & Allan than Carlton got out of Bannister & Mcgrath - SIMPLE! You could argue that perhaps we MAY have done better by using those spots for kids from the PSD who MAY have been able to play but now your simply playing psychic.

Its the same with Campo. He may or may not have a good 2006 but I & many others believe he's a far better risk than a kid who has been passed over by every club several times. We already have a lot of kids on our list & added several more this year. What we need is players with experience to help us through this re-building stage. If guys like Mcgrath & Bannister had of come on as we'd liked then we wouldn't have to look at older players but the reality is that we were up the top of the ladder for a few years & so didn't get early draft picks. We also didn't draft as well as we would have liked with the picks we had. You may feel that the better approach is to totally bottom out, get rid of every guy over 25 & have a side full of kids hoping they all come good. This may or may not work (its yet to be seen) but Essendon's approach is to try to go into each season in the best position we can. Getting rid of Mcgrath & Bannister (replacing them with Murphy & Allan) made us a better team in 04/05, hopefully adding Campo for 2006 will also make us a better team.
I'm not saying Carlton made the wrong move in the trade. Allan & Murphy were offering nothing for you & there's no reason to believe they would have improved if they'd stayed so you got the best return you could. Yes you would have hoped for more from McGrath & Bannister but Carlton improved as a team by getting those 2 & getting rid of Murphy & Allan just like Essendon improved from the deal.....Just more so!

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

as it stands now we got more out of Murphy & Allan than Carlton got out of Bannister & Mcgrath - SIMPLE!

Bannister had a good first year, while McGrath came into the side half way through and has played most games since. In fact he was added into our leadership group which is a fair reflection of his work ethic and value to the side. Suggest Bannister has done nothing if you must but you are very wrong as far as McGrath goes. He has played in defence most of the time and has been successful in tagging roles on several big names. Did you watch every Blues game in 2005?

 

[mediumsizered]

Bannister had a good first year, while McGrath came into the side half way through and has played most games since. In fact he was added into our leadership group which is a fair reflection of his work ethic and value to the side. Suggest Bannister has done nothing if you must but you are very wrong as far as McGrath goes. He has played in defence most of the time and has been successful in tagging roles on several big names. Did you watch every Blues game in 2005?

He obviously missed the Collingwood game where Buckley kicked 4 goals in a quarter and a half on Thornton and then did not kick another goal after McGrath was moved on to him. You could never have done that with Murphy. Mr 'no defence' himself.

 

[ChrisFooty]

Going with the theme of this thread, I'd say Carlton has bought 16 premierships, Essendon has bought 16, Collingwood 14........

It is professional football.

St.Kilda bought one priemership in 1966
Melbourne Storm bought their NRL cup in 1999.
The Socceroos bought their world cup qualification in 2005.

 

[Frankston Rover]

95 still hurts doesn't it

Considering you cheated the salary cap to win it, yes I am.

But considering you were still cheating when you won your first spoon, that's karma.

Daniel Wells and Brendan Goddard look good BTW.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Considering you cheated the salary cap to win it, yes I am.

But considering you were still cheating when you won your first spoon, that's karma.

Daniel Wells and Brendan Goddard look good BTW.

so does Chris Judd BTW

I hear he even won a Brownlow

 

[Frankston Rover]

Considering Hodge and Judd scored the same Brownlow votes in 2005 and considering we finished 14th, I'm pretty happy.

Hey, at least we got to pick someone.

You got Digby Morrell and Daniel Harford.... ha ha ha.

 

[abcabc]

to the Hawk supporter above ..if you have a good memory you will know that Hawthorn paid Tony Hall's wife a lot of money ... rumored to be about 75K a year to answer the phones a couple of days a week down at Hawthorn in the early 90's

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Considering Hodge and Judd scored the same Brownlow votes in 2005 and considering we finished 14th, I'm pretty happy.

Hey, at least we got to pick someone.

You got Digby Morrell and Daniel Harford.... ha ha ha.

Nah sorry mate, Chris Judd >>>>> Luke Hodge

and 15 other clubs would agree

Isnt it funny, how even with those players like Digby Morell and Daniel Harford weve still managed to beat you twice out of our last three encounters ?

Goodnight Irene your credibillity has taken a beating

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Considering you cheated the salary cap to win it, yes I am.

Link?

 

[MarkT]

Link?

Been done and dusted. Do a search. There were a couple of threads with links just in the last few months. You always stand behind this burden of proof but it's a shield of fairy floss in a storm.

 

[KissStephanie]

Would Carlton have won Premierships in the 70s, 80s and 90s if it didn't buy interstate players such as Bosustow, Kernahan, Hunter, Bradley etc etc....?

They won them fair and square. They recruited and spent well. The only possibly 'disputed' premiership in my opinion was 1995 because they could have gone over the salary cap, but other teams probably did as well.

I remember as a young Collingwood supporter the Carlton teams that won the 1979 and 1981 Grand Final's, and they were the best team in the league. The Magpies did well to get within 5 points in 1979, and to lead by more than 3 goals (I think?) late in the third quarter of 1981. To think those losses were 'Colliwobbles' is just as silly.

 

[Mutant]

How many would WC have if the AFL didnt give them an interstate side?

That would be "state side" not "interstate side" d***head, where do you think the majority of players came from Victoria? I don't agree they were a "state side" as from memory we were still playing Stae of Origin and the WA side included players other than WCE's

AFL gave? I think at the very least WC brought with a heap of money at the time to prop up basket case VFL teams.

 

[MarkT]

A heap of money? Basket case? Get real!

 

[Frankston Rover]

Nah sorry mate, Chris Judd >>>>> Luke Hodge

and 15 other clubs would agree

Isnt it funny, how even with those players like Digby Morell and Daniel Harford weve still managed to beat you twice out of our last three encounters ?

Goodnight Irene your credibillity has taken a beating

Yet you still have managed to win TWO spoons in that time.

How sh*t must you be????

 

[Vandenbergfan]

Link?

What's that supposed to mean? Carlton was found guilty as a serial salary cap cheater (largely based on its own admission) which included season 1995.

The 1995 premiership should be awarded to Geelong as the runner-up, as is the case in all sports where the winner is found to have cheated. Carlton rightfully won the wooden spoon in 1995 and should have been banned from competition for three years, not draft penalties for three years.

 

[MarkT]

Ban Carlton for 3 years, tear up the TV deal in the process, make Hawthorn play at Waverley minus their compo and see if Don Scott can save them again.

 

[Eagle87]

That would be "state side" not "interstate side" d***head, where do you think the majority of players came from Victoria? I don't agree they were a "state side" as from memory we were still playing Stae of Origin and the WA side included players other than WCE's

AFL gave? I think at the very least WC brought with a heap of money at the time to prop up basket case VFL teams.

The Eagles initial squad of 35 contained 10 players (8 State of Origin, 2 from WAFL V SANFL) who had represented their state (all WA). Of those only 1 played in a premiership for the Eagles.

Interestingly, the Hawthorn & Carlton sides had more players with State rep experience in their 1987 sides (not all Victorians). All other VFL teams (except Brisbane) had lists of 50 players in 1987 i.e. an extra 15 players.

Before the Eagles list was put together in 1986, the following 1986 WAFL players left for other VFL clubs: Harding, Sartori, Bairstow, Wilson, Winmar, Mitchell, Bewick, Dean.

So the Eagles went into the expanded VFL with a list including 35 mainly WAFL players who were picked from a pool that had already lost 8 of its best players (per above). It had 10 state players but these included players aged30+ players like Glendinning & Wiley (who were gone in 2 & 1 years respectively), Malaxos (failed Hawk), Narkle, McNish, Keene, Davidson, Miles Laidley & Lamb. Only Lamb played in a premiership for WC.

The original list of 35 did include 5 future premiership players. In addition to Lamb we also took some young unproven types including Mainwaring, Lewis, Brennan and Hart.

The rest of our list was built subsequently through some pre-draft picks over the next few years - until we had a similar size list to other VFL clubs (the last pre-draft pick was in 1991).

In 1987 and 1988 we were able to take 5 players before the draft. In 87 this was it - we dropped 5 off our list, added 5 new ones and stayed with a list of 35.

In 88 we picked up 5 pre-draft to increase the list to 40. (Of these 3 had to be over 20 and 2 under 20). We then particpated in the draft. WA players were available to all but only 1 per club (this was to help protect the WAFL which was still recovering from the mass exodus of players 2 years earlier).

In 1989 we got 2 pre-draft picks (Brisbane got 6 & Sydney 4)

In 1990 we got 2 (Brisbane got 5 and Sydney 6)

The key for the Eagles was the way they used the Draft in 1989: Matera, Heady, Evans, McIntosh & Kemp and then getting White & Jakovich with our 2 pre-draft picks in 1990.

Interestingly the 1989 draft saw Matera go at 4 after he was passed over by St Kilda, Richmond & Footscray. Then there was a West Aussie frenzy with 7 of the Top 14 being from the WAFL (only Matera to WC). The players taken by Vic Teams in that draft (all before Evans, Heady & Kemp): Brad Rowe, Mark Brayshaw, Stephen Edgar, Dale Kickett, Brad Tunbridge, Ben Allan, Gavin Rose, Peter Cransberg, Denis Rapacholi. 4 Victorian sides didnt draft anyone from WA. This puts to bed one often spouted theory that we had this great draft because of concession. These players (Evans, Heady, Kemp) were all simply passed over as was Matera by 3 clubs.

At the end of 1991 (our one pre-draft pick was Jason Ball) we had exhausted all "concessions" as we had equalised our list with our VFL sides.

Again to restate: The only reason they Eagles got pre-draft picks after their first few seasons was to minimise the damage to the WAFL. Rather than destroy the comp by taking 50 players up front, we took 35 in one year and then a few more each year to bring the list up to the same as the other clubs. The Eagles did not get to take the best 5 players in the WAFL with those picks (in 87 + 88) because they had to split the picks between 16-19 year olds and 20+ year olds.

The first few years were tough and the key for WC was their good fortune with WA winning a Teal Cup (for the first time) in 1985 (so there was a good crop of kids at the end of 86/87) and a spectacular draft in 1989 + 2 great pre-draft picks in 1990.

This formula remains the same today. Build with kids and nail a couple of drafts and you are a contender.

Cheers

 

[mediumsizered]

The 1995 premiership should be awarded to Geelong as the runner-up, as is the case in all sports where the winner is found to have cheated. Carlton rightfully won the wooden spoon in 1995 and should have been banned from competition for three years, not draft penalties for three years.

On that theory, we would end up the same anyway, because the AFL would have to award us the 93 GF, given Essendon were caught cheating as well.