Rumour Bluemour Discussion thread - The sequel - I know what SOS did last Sumner

[thylacine60]

Is it just me or does it appear every year so much of the initial leg work on possible deals is done before trade week even starts? If you believe the rumour the GWS5/5 deal and the Horvat deal are just about already done and trade week hasn't even officially started lol

Spot on again, 81. It's just you.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

You raise a lot of good points BF and I pretty much agree.

Playing devils advocate though, if SOS has identified a player in the draft that he believes won't go before a certain pick and can trade us back into the draft with a high enough pick to select him, he might see #5 a expendable.

This is all based on the theory that he may feel say anyone from picks 5 - 15 can go in any order.

Otherwise, it is a very high risk strategy to get the 4-5 boys in from GWS, but also has high reward if Marchbank is our fullback for 10 years and the others come on as well.

In reality, there is too much of the unknown in this trade to be certain one way or another. We are all along for this ride...

The top 7-8 players look to be a cut above the rest. In terms of midfielders (or hybrid mids) there's McCluggage, Brodie, Taranto, McGrath, Scrimshaw, Ainsworth, Venables and SPS. Those guys will not be available at pick #15 except MAYBE Venables who would've dropped down the list a bit having been unable to play for a bit.

Our midfield is our biggest issue. If we lose Gibbs, we need to replace him with a potential gun mid and it will still set us back maybe for a year or two until that young gun gets some experience. It is going to be very difficult to do that with Pick #13. We got lucky with Cripps but how often does a gun mid slide that far? So automatically, our midfield is worse off by trading Gibbs.

Then, we get rid of pick #5 for a bunch of players and not even one of them is a midfielder. Even if one was, he'd be one of their fringe players. So now, we also miss out on a very strong chance of grabbing a gun mid.

I'm saying it now and I know most people already understand this but if those 2 trades happen our midfield is going to be shot to pieces. Not just next year, but for at least 2 years possibly 3 or even more (depends how long Murphy can go for). By then Cripps will be burned out from carrying the load all that time.

Then there's the issue of Murphy getting injured. He's obviously older and if he goes down again next year what's our core midfield going to be?

Cripps, Kerridge, Lyons and Ed Curnow? That's shit even if you add Murphy.

Brodie is ready made for AFL and there's a good chance he slides to #5. I wouldn't have minded to see the club trade 2017 1st for another top 10 pick too. I think it's a good chance if GC get #6 off the Tigers for Prestia that we can get that #6 pick by trading our 2017 1st.

Then we could pick up Brodie and Taranto or Scrimshaw.

Keep Gibbs and even taking into consideration another Murphy injury and this is our core midfield:

Cripps, Gibbs, Brodie, Taranto and Ed Curnow.

They won't be stars straight away, but in a couple of years that will be a beast midfield.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Fair enough. Would you be more keen on the deal if Lyons and Pick 24 were removed from the equation entirely?

Lets reverse the argument here for a bit, we would like Rory Sloane to come back to Victoria.

What would you expect from Carlton in return ??

 

[thylacine60]

Anyway, we're hoping to get a pick in the mid teens to early 20's for Tuohy.

Some of the scenarios being proposed by visiting posters put Gibbs value at somewhere near that.

Why would we do that ? Lyons may be handy but he's obviously a low B grader otherwise you'd keep him and pick 13.

With all due respect Adelaidians, come back next year when you finish 5th-8th and get knocked out early in the finals again.

Surely a reset of the proportion we are experiencing aspires to more than 'handy'?

 

[passmark]

Surely a reset of the proportion we are experiencing aspires to more than 'handy'?

Exactly.

 

[LanceRomance]

I love Bryce but if he wants to go home and 13 is on the table we would be cray cray not to take it...

Especially if there are plans to turn it in to pick 4....

 

[passmark]

I love Bryce but if he wants to go home and 13 is on the table we would be cray cray not to take it...

Especially if there are plans to turn it in to pick 4....

whatimiss?

 

[Aphrodite]

Lets reverse the argument here for a bit, we would like Rory Sloane to come back to Victoria.

What would you expect from Carlton in return ??

 

[Coona Blues]

Hello, apologies for the intrusion.

Just wanted to comment on the rumoured Gibbs deal. In all seriousness, I think it would be a win / win for both clubs.

It has been mentioned by a couple of Carlton posters that Gibbs will be 31 by the time you guys are challenging for finals, and this is pretty inescapable.

Lyons will be just hitting his prime at that stage, and is certainly going to be a more valuable addition to your club than either of Kerridge / Wright, who both did really well for you guys in 2016.

The best aspect of Lyons game is his elite hands at stoppages. His ability to fire out quick and ACCURATE handballs is quite simply the best at our club at the present time, and we'all miss that. He makes very smart decisions with ball in hand and is one of the best exponents of a 30m kick to a leading forward at our club too. He's also a guy who can genuinely average a goal a game as he is very smart when floating forward. He's an excellent tackler too and took this to a new level in 2015.

The reason his value is limited to a pick around 20-28 is probably his speed (he isn't "slow", but he's probably about Matty Wright pace), combined with the lack of penetration on his kicks. I wouldn't say he's too good on the left peg either, but this is rarely an issue because he'll handball out of trouble at will.

Personally I think we might end up sweetening the deal a little considering Gibbs is contracted and Lyons is not, so maybe we throw in Ellis-Yolmen on top of Lyons and Pick 13, with Gibbs and 24 coming our way.

I understand that there's probably going to be a majority of Carlton fans who still aren't keen on that trade, but it's about the bigger picture I guess. Which side of the trade will improve your premiership hopes? I hope you don't find it disrespectful for me to say that I don't think Gibbs can win a flag at Carlton, but that's how I see it. If these rumours are proven correct, that's obviously the stance SOS has taken too.

Nice post (although not many here would agree) Lyons is a decent (or better) player.
Really begs the question why Adelaide has lowballed Lyons with his contract offer. Pretty much follows the model we have
applied to Zac Tuohy.........club has an agenda.

Adelaide been linked to both Gibbs and Rockliff so they are hedging for cap space and/or trade bait. Simply put, this whole scenario
is driven by Adelaide and probably the Gibbs family, with genuine wishes to unite the extended families on the back of the youngster
now guiding their lives....for the disbelievers here, family is not only important, it is "everything" for some, very much transcends footy
or even career for many.

Sick of hearing borderline vilification for our club seemingly trying to make the best of the situation. Please refrain from taking the
rumoured deal as gospel, probably a Crows driven starting point. Expect our second to become a 3rd or perhaps the addition of Mitch
Grigg, as was mooted on here many weeks ago, or some other sweetener.

I expect 2 or 3 quality mids from the first 2 rounds of the draft even if we are selecting from outside the top 10. There are plenty
there, contrary to popular opinion. Lyons and Hrovat are top 22 quality, and certainly enhance our ability to hit a target in the forward
50. Sacrificing an ageing Gibbs, at his request, and the loss of say Whiley, Tutt and maybe Graham from our midfield depth will be
a net gain, which will ultimately justify the "likely" trade.

Have to believe there is a big fish mid "hooked" for next year, just have to land it.

It is about the reset people, not going to do it without some short term pain.

 

[LanceRomance]

whatimiss?

Crows 13 Gws 14( or whatever it is)
to GCS pick 4

 

[thylacine60]

whatimiss?

this - and you do every morning - I'm sick of it

 

[LanceRomance]

this - and you do every morning - I'm sick of it

You are living MrsLance's life

 

[bmaurizio]

I can't accept that pick 23 could be involved in the Gibbs trade. Gibbs for 13 and Lyons would be upsetting, but I could get over it. But to include pick 23, I would be very disappointed.

Gibbs for 13 and Lyons I would very reluctantly accept, nothing less.
He's our champion but we would never impede the family wanting to go back to their roots and home state.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I love Bryce but if he wants to go home and 13 is on the table we would be cray cray not to take it...

Especially if there are plans to turn it in to pick 4....

You mean Everitt + Graham + Tutt + Jones + #13 for #4?

Why not? It's working for GWS, we might as well give it a shot...

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Lets reverse the argument here for a bit, we would like Rory Sloane to come back to Victoria.

What would you expect from Carlton in return ??

Sloane is 27. Do not want

 

[Zlatan]

The top 7-8 players look to be a cut above the rest. In terms of midfielders (or hybrid mids) there's McCluggage, Brodie, Taranto, McGrath, Scrimshaw, Ainsworth, Venables and SPS. Those guys will not be available at pick #15 except MAYBE Venables who would've dropped down the list a bit having been unable to play for a bit.

Our midfield is our biggest issue. If we lose Gibbs, we need to replace him with a potential gun mid and it will still set us back maybe for a year or two until that young gun gets some experience. It is going to be very difficult to do that with Pick #13. We got lucky with Cripps but how often does a gun mid slide that far? So automatically, our midfield is worse off by trading Gibbs.

Then, we get rid of pick #5 for a bunch of players and not even one of them is a midfielder. Even if one was, he'd be one of their fringe players. So now, we also miss out on a very strong chance of grabbing a gun mid.

I'm saying it now and I know most people already understand this but if those 2 trades happen our midfield is going to be shot to pieces. Not just next year, but for at least 2 years possibly 3 or even more (depends how long Murphy can go for). By then Cripps will be burned out from carrying the load all that time.

Then there's the issue of Murphy getting injured. He's obviously older and if he goes down again next year what's our core midfield going to be?

Cripps, Kerridge, Lyons and Ed Curnow? That's shit even if you add Murphy.

Brodie is ready made for AFL and there's a good chance he slides to #5. I wouldn't have minded to see the club trade 2017 1st for another top 10 pick too. I think it's a good chance if GC get #6 off the Tigers for Prestia that we can get that #6 pick by trading our 2017 1st.

Then we could pick up Brodie and Taranto or Scrimshaw.

Keep Gibbs and even taking into consideration another Murphy injury and this is our core midfield:

Cripps, Gibbs, Brodie, Taranto and Ed Curnow.

They won't be stars straight away, but in a couple of years that will be a beast midfield.

Once again, all good points. Nothing I can really say I strongly disagree with.

My preference, for the record, is to use pick #5 on the best midfielder and then bring in Lyons, Hrovat and Marchbank by trading picks.

Cripps, Murphy, Gibbs, pick #5, E.Curnow, Kerridge, Lyons, Hrovat, Cuningham, Graham and then the rotations. Not world beating but serviceable for this season at least and a definite improvement on last season.

But after Barass dropped in yesterday, I think most of us are coming to terms with losing pick 5 now...

 

[Just Kreuzing]

You mean Everitt + Graham + Tutt + Jones + #13 for #4?

Why not? It's working for GWS, we might as well give it a shot...

Would trade those 4 just for Brandon Matera if only to dump Liam Jones salary....

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Sloane is 27. Do not want

Work with us here....

Patience, hypothetical and that !!

 

[Blue Dimension]

I made mention of a source confirming the potential for Gibbs to move last week - however this suggested trade being discussed is completely and utterly absurd and just won't happen.

Gibbs traded to Adelaide for an 11 spot pick upgrade and Lyons? That's comedy right there.

 

[Zlatan]

I made mention of a source confirming the potential for Gibbs to move last week - however this suggested trade being discussed is completely and utterly absurd and just won't happen.

Gibbs traded to Adelaide for an 11 spot pick upgrade and Lyons? That's comedy right there.

Adelaide feel their in prime position for a premiership tilt so it would almost impossible to shake a quality player out of them.

Just looks like they don't have what it would cost for a player like Gibbs at the moment.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Work with us here....

Patience, hypothetical and that !!

Haha I just threw that out as some bait, still hoping for a bite

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Once again, all good points. Nothing I can really say I strongly disagree with.

My preference, for the record, is to use pick #5 on the best midfielder and then bring in Lyons, Hrovat and Marchbank by trading picks.

Cripps, Murphy, Gibbs, pick #5, E.Curnow, Kerridge, Lyons, Hrovat, Cuningham, Graham and then the rotations. Not world beating but serviceable for this season at least and a definite improvement on last season.

But after Barass dropped in yesterday, I think most of us are coming to terms with losing pick 5 now...

Yep. Barass will very rarely get it wrong.

The terms are our midfield is ****ed.

 

[RoyalParade]

What if we didnt give up 24 but got 13 and lyons?

 

[OZBomb]

Somewhat Carlton related but more so to do with the VFL side, have heard the northern blues are interested in bringing Morabito and John Butcher over

Good move, if so. The more young players we have, the more important it is to have experienced, quality players around them. That's Brendan Bolton, right there. Details.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Fair enough. Would you be more keen on the deal if Lyons and Pick 24 were removed from the equation entirely?

I'd prefer it, but still not keen.