Debt and Deficit - Coalition Budget Emergency

[Power Raid]

at what point does our government stop wastage. we really need to sit down and ask ourselves some basic questions
- why have bureaucracies that are a net negative
- why allocate resources to educating/ training where there are zero jobs at the end of it
- why allow $19b of wastage in our health industry lining the pockets of doctors and health providers
- why subsidies our middle class

then consider, why
- foreigners are exempt from CGT on many transactions

Keatings "banana republic" call may be relevant once again

 

[Collingwoodity]

at what point does our government stop wastage. we really need to sit down and ask ourselves some basic questions
- why have bureaucracies that are a net negative
- why allocate resources to educating/ training where there are zero jobs at the end of it
- why allow $19b of wastage in our health industry lining the pockets of doctors and health providers
- why subsidies our middle class

then consider, why
- foreigners are exempt from CGT on many transactions

Keatings "banana republic" call may be relevant once again

The rest are agreeable except the middle class is not 'subsidised'.

The middle class is dying and I predict it will be dead in 50 years.

There is going to be about 20% high class and then 80% lower class. The difference between the 20th percentile and the 21st percentile will be enormous. It's already happening. The arguments by both sides (the corporate "right" and the working class "left" (or the greenie "left")) is all a distraction. We are being encouraged to take on more debt, use more credit cards, etc. The greater number of individuals in a life of indebtedness is what is wanted by the rich 20%. The rich 20% are neither left or right, they don't care. But what appears to be correct in my view, is that the left mentality of tax more of the so-called rich earning $50,000 plus is helping the 1-20% get richer.

This is primarily why I cannot stand the left or green way of thinking. Why do they attack the middle class or lump the middle class with the high class? Someone earning $70,000 - $90,000 is not in the 20%. They are not earning a lot of money. Compared to someone on the dole they are earning a decent wage but really, if you work as a retail employee you are earning $738.80 per week ($46,000 per annum). Someone earning $70,000 is earning $1043.15 per week or $976.15 with HECS. Its not a lot of money.

 

[JackOutback]

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...the-worst-on-december-19-20161120-gstd7i.html

Another blow out by these economic illiterate imbeciles.

Add hypocrite to the description. When the numbers changed under Labor, it was their fault, but here it's parameters and projections and movements.

When asked about Deloitte’s report, Morrison said he had always been “very careful” when talking about the likelihood of returning the budget to surplus.

He said the government’s 2020-21 date was a projection based on the best available numbers in the May budget.

“What I said was that the projection based on the parameters at the time was that the budget would return to balance in 2020-21,” he told ABC host Michael Brissenden.

“Now I’ve always been very careful about that … I know others in the past have made bold predictions and promises about these things.

“The 2020-21 budget balance position was a projection based on those numbers. Now these numbers move, they always have.”

Brissenden asked Morrison: “So if the numbers aren’t there you won’t get to that [surplus] position [by 2020-21]?”

Morrison replied: “Well that’s simple arithmetic. But no one has made that call yet, and no one’s suggesting that yet.”

 

[Power Raid]

The rest are agreeable except the middle class is not 'subsidised'.

The middle class is dying and I predict it will be dead in 50 years.

There is going to be about 20% high class and then 80% lower class. The difference between the 20th percentile and the 21st percentile will be enormous. It's already happening. The arguments by both sides (the corporate "right" and the working class "left" (or the greenie "left")) is all a distraction. We are being encouraged to take on more debt, use more credit cards, etc. The greater number of individuals in a life of indebtedness is what is wanted by the rich 20%. The rich 20% are neither left or right, they don't care. But what appears to be correct in my view, is that the left mentality of tax more of the so-called rich earning $50,000 plus is helping the 1-20% get richer.

This is primarily why I cannot stand the left or green way of thinking. Why do they attack the middle class or lump the middle class with the high class? Someone earning $70,000 - $90,000 is not in the 20%. They are not earning a lot of money. Compared to someone on the dole they are earning a decent wage but really, if you work as a retail employee you are earning $738.80 per week ($46,000 per annum). Someone earning $70,000 is earning $1043.15 per week or $976.15 with HECS. Its not a lot of money.

I agree with the sentiment but referring to inefficient and unnecessary payments to families. That said, workers pull more than their fair share in the tax burden, so yes I agree re your concern. Rather than family payments, how about the government extend its education offering to day care. This would take a massive burden off single parents and working families.

My other big gripe is medicare for citizens not living here. If people want medicare when they are overseas, they should pay a levy or not be entitled to the health benefit.

 

[Maggie5]

My other big gripe is medicare for citizens not living here. If people want medicare when they are overseas, they should pay a levy or not be entitled to the health benefit.

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/subjects/australians-overseas

• know that if you receive treatment overseas, Medicare benefits are not available
• check if you’re travelling to a country that has a Reciprocal Health Care Agreement (RHCA) with Australia - this doesn't replace the need for private travel health insurance

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/medicare/reciprocal-health-care-agreements

If you travel overseas you can get help with the cost of essential medical treatment in some countries under the Australian Government’s Reciprocal Health Care Agreements.

The Australian Government has agreements with New Zealand, the United Kingdom, the Republic of Ireland, Sweden, the Netherlands, Finland, Italy, Belgium, Malta, Slovenia and Norway. These agreements mean:

• Australian residents can get help with the cost of essential medical treatment when visiting these countries
• residents of these countries can get some essential medical treatments while visiting Australia.

 

[GreyCrow]

if you work as a retail employee you are earning $738.80 per week ($46,000 per annum). Someone earning $70,000 is earning $1043.15 per week or $976.15 with HECS. Its not a lot of money.

Its not, but it should be enough. We make choices based on how much we earn. What those choices are determine how we view what is enough. $1000 a week would be plenty for me, so much so I could save $300 a week without missing it.

Your point about indebtedness is spot on though.

 

[GreyCrow]

at what point does our government stop wastage. we really need to sit down and ask ourselves some basic questions
- why have bureaucracies that are a net negative

then consider, why
- foreigners are exempt from CGT on many transactions

These 2 points are interesting. Like Collingwoodity I am not sure the middle class can be lumped in. On the 1st point I would like to have some clarity on which departments you would target as I fear Health would be one and I wont ever agree on a user-pays system for everyone.

We all know the ''google tax'' wont happen because Governments get bluffed by lobbyists.

 

[Benny78]

What I don't understand is rich people who claim it's "our money". Our entire market works on supply and demand and not retail value.

 

[Power Raid]

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/subjects/australians-overseas

• know that if you receive treatment overseas, Medicare benefits are not available
• check if you’re travelling to a country that has a Reciprocal Health Care Agreement (RHCA) with Australia - this doesn't replace the need for private travel health insurance

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/medicare/reciprocal-health-care-agreements

If you travel overseas you can get help with the cost of essential medical treatment in some countries under the Australian Government’s Reciprocal Health Care Agreements.

The Australian Government has agreements with New Zealand, the United Kingdom, the Republic of Ireland, Sweden, the Netherlands, Finland, Italy, Belgium, Malta, Slovenia and Norway. These agreements mean:

• Australian residents can get help with the cost of essential medical treatment when visiting these countries
• residents of these countries can get some essential medical treatments while visiting Australia.

thanks Maggie

not quite the angle I was referring to but yes we should have exceptions for those paying taxes in those countries.

I was referring to citizens living and paying taxes in places like Lebanon and then flying in for free health

 

[Maggie5]

thanks Maggie
not quite the angle I was referring to but yes we should have exceptions for those paying taxes in those countries.
I was referring to citizens living and paying taxes in places like Lebanon and then flying in for free health

Do you have figures or sources for the bolded? Why single out Lebanon?
I would imagine most people would take out travel insurance, not a lot of money involved, I know I do even for a week out of the country.

 

[Power Raid]

These 2 points are interesting. Like Collingwoodity I am not sure the middle class can be lumped in. On the 1st point I would like to have some clarity on which departments you would target as I fear Health would be one and I wont ever agree on a user-pays system for everyone.

We all know the ''google tax'' wont happen because Governments get bluffed by lobbyists.

the tax is the easier one to address, so I'll do this first. My belief is if Australians have to pay tax on something, then non-tax residents should have to as well. Currently non-residents do not have to pay CGT capital gains if it fits into certain rules. These rules should simply not apply and by tidying this up and every other area of tax, we would have a fairer simpler tax that collects more revenue.

In regards to bureaucracy and red tape, we have whole departments and bodies of law that protect the established and lock out new comers or prevent activity for little benefit. Two very different examples that highlight not only wasting resources on departments trying to remain relevant but demonstrate how the rich get rich and the poor stay poor:

1 a) ASIC and s708 of the corps act

Good financial products are offered to the wealthy first due to s708 as they require no disclosure (lower cost and faster for the issuer). These investments vary in quality and returns but I find 10% to 100% returns are available on favourable risk weighted terms. In the case s708 investors do not want these investments, or excess available, a prospectus is generated and crazy fees paid to financial services guys who sell them to mums and dads on unfavourable risk weighted terms.

1 b) Scoping studies

ASIC allows communication to wealthy investors re financial studies such as scoping studies but prevent, by law, the companies releasing the results to the ASX and to mums and dads. The wealthy can either buy more or dump their stock into the mums and dads market.


The regulation that was designed to protect mums and dads actively disadvantages them and guarantees lower returns and greater risk. In short ASIC is a busted arse organisation that favours the rich.

2) Regulation

To provide seafood, from an Australian seafood processing factory (filleting), to coles and woolworth's you need to be accredited and audited by industry and government. This accreditation costs circa $4m in WA.

Who has $4m to go through accreditation in the hope Coles or Woolies will give you a contract? Clearly only to incumbents can and this essentially locks out competition. As a result prices go up and up which are passed onto the consumer until..............a foreign supplier enters the market. These foreign suppliers are not subject to Australian regulation and thus operate at lower costs.

To emphasise how ridiculous it is; Australian fish is caught here and frozen on the boats. The fish is thawed and then refrozen in batches to be flown out to Asia. It is then thawed and filleted in Thailand and refrozen. It is then sent back to Australia and thawed and refrozen again to be batched. The product is then thawed at your local Coles and labelled "fresh" as the legal definition of frozen is minus 10 and they never drop the temperature below that level on the 13 times it is frozen and re-thawed before sale.

We now find ourselves with the loss of important blue collar work and soon to be the death of Australian fishing as they no longer have a sensible pathway to market. Instead the majority of fish we eat, is from the polluted waters of Asia.



The regulation that was designed to protect us has killed our industry and now exposed us to food product we know is unsafe.

 

[Power Raid]

These 2 points are interesting. Like Collingwoodity I am not sure the middle class can be lumped in. On the 1st point I would like to have some clarity on which departments you would target as I fear Health would be one and I wont ever agree on a user-pays system for everyone.

We all know the ''google tax'' wont happen because Governments get bluffed by lobbyists.

FTR I like government run schools and government run hospitals but I do like the competition of private industry and definitely prefer state based rather than federal based services. So I wouldn't want this stopped.

That said, I do like the idea of the independent schools where the bill is picked up by the state but the administration has a lot more autonomy. I hate the idea of robots employees and robot students. People need flexibility and ownership to be proud of their work. If we implement this across the board in our schools, we probably wouldn't have the great disparity between our private and government schools.

Medicare definitely needs to remain and the insurance component must remain government owned.

 

[GreyCrow]

FTR I like government run schools and government run hospitals but I do like the competition of private industry and definitely prefer state based rather than federal based services. So I wouldn't want this stopped.

That said, I do like the idea of the independent schools where the bill is picked up by the state but the administration has a lot more autonomy. I hate the idea of robots employees and robot students. People need flexibility and ownership to be proud of their work. If we implement this across the board in our schools, we probably wouldn't have the great disparity between our private and government schools.

Medicare definitely needs to remain and the insurance component must remain government owned.

No great problems with these , thanks. I am of an age where I knew of ETSA (Electricity) and EWS ( Water) etc which were owned by the State. They made money for the State and provided a service. Telecom was the same. Sure there could have been some innovative thinking and breaking up of pieces of these utilities but to sell them cheaply has , and will continue, to cost States for years to come.

 

[Brown Bottle]

Add hypocrite to the description. When the numbers changed under Labor, it was their fault, but here it's parameters and projections and movements.

When asked about Deloitte’s report, Morrison said he had always been “very careful” when talking about the likelihood of returning the budget to surplus.

He said the government’s 2020-21 date was a projection based on the best available numbers in the May budget.

“What I said was that the projection based on the parameters at the time was that the budget would return to balance in 2020-21,” he told ABC host Michael Brissenden.

“Now I’ve always been very careful about that … I know others in the past have made bold predictions and promises about these things.

“The 2020-21 budget balance position was a projection based on those numbers. Now these numbers move, they always have.”

Brissenden asked Morrison: “So if the numbers aren’t there you won’t get to that [surplus] position [by 2020-21]?”

Morrison replied: “Well that’s simple arithmetic. But no one has made that call yet, and no one’s suggesting that yet.”

Hilarious! This guy is a deadset moron. I doubt that he can even spell the word moron, he's such a moron.

 

[Xsess]

In Australia we have reached what I call peak stupid where more than half the population is supported by those who actually do pay tax. Curtailing the welfare addiction is political suicide so both political parties refuse to. The backlash against Abbotts first budget spells the end of any serious attempt to reign in spending we will ever see. IMO he should have gone waaay harder instead of bothering trying to appease the ABC and fellow media whingers. But I guess with Labor blocking every attempt to fix the economy his hands were tied.

 

[GreyCrow]

In Australia we have reached what I call peak stupid where more than half the population is supported by those who actually do pay tax. Curtailing the welfare addiction is political suicide so both political parties refuse to. The backlash against Abbotts first budget spells the end of any serious attempt to reign in spending we will ever see. IMO he should have gone waaay harder instead of bothering trying to appease the ABC and fellow media whingers. But I guess with Labor blocking every attempt to fix the economy his hands were tied.

You mean like old people? Or maybe you are attacking those rich who minimize their tax?

 

[Fire]

In Australia we have reached what I call peak stupid where more than half the population is supported by those who actually do pay tax. Curtailing the welfare addiction is political suicide so both political parties refuse to. The backlash against Abbotts first budget spells the end of any serious attempt to reign in spending we will ever see. IMO he should have gone waaay harder instead of bothering trying to appease the ABC and fellow media whingers. But I guess with Labor blocking every attempt to fix the economy his hands were tied.

Abbott didn't go in hard. He was all flash no substance.

What he did didn't take any guts. he basically did nothing, except cut some handouts to the disabled and the youth unemployed. It looked tough, but there were no real savings there.

He should have cut all middle class welfare; and reverted the expectation of welfare as a safety net, not something to help the mums and dad's buy their kids some school shoes. seriously, the amount of middle class wingers who ring up talk back stations to complain about how cutting their handouts will make it harder for them is disgusting. There's a real ingrained sense of entitlement out there that needs to be slapped out of the middle class.

Abbott didn't touch them at all though. instead he went after the very people that NEED the safety net. People under 30 who fall on hard times need the same basics as someone who's 30.

It wasn't just a mean spirited attempt; it was ineffectual. what was it, 1.6 billion saved over 4 years IIRC? He kept all the fat. and then wanted to put in a gold plated maternity scheme which would pay the richest the most!

He was all over the shop, I don't see how his botched attempt would please ANYONE from either side.

 

[JackOutback]

You mean like old people? Or maybe you are attacking those rich who minimize their tax?

Peak stupid would be believing misleading sound bites from self-interested politicians.

 

[Collingwoodity]

Abbott didn't go in hard. He was all flash no substance.

What he did didn't take any guts. he basically did nothing, except cut some handouts to the disabled and the youth unemployed. It looked tough, but there were no real savings there.

He should have cut all middle class welfare; and reverted the expectation of welfare as a safety net, not something to help the mums and dad's buy their kids some school shoes. seriously, the amount of middle class wingers who ring up talk back stations to complain about how cutting their handouts will make it harder for them is disgusting. There's a real ingrained sense of entitlement out there that needs to be slapped out of the middle class.

Abbott didn't touch them at all though. instead he went after the very people that NEED the safety net. People under 30 who fall on hard times need the same basics as someone who's 30.

It wasn't just a mean spirited attempt; it was ineffectual. what was it, 1.6 billion saved over 4 years IIRC? He kept all the fat. and then wanted to put in a gold plated maternity scene which would pay the richest the most!

He was all over the shop, I don't see how his botched attempt would please ANYONE from either side.

Again with the middle class.

When will the left learn that taxing the largest group of earners is a short term solution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Reynolds Number]

Abbott didn't go in hard. He was all flash no substance.

What he did didn't take any guts. he basically did nothing, except cut some handouts to the disabled and the youth unemployed. It looked tough, but there were no real savings there.

He should have cut all middle class welfare; and reverted the expectation of welfare as a safety net, not something to help the mums and dad's buy their kids some school shoes. seriously, the amount of middle class wingers who ring up talk back stations to complain about how cutting their handouts will make it harder for them is disgusting. There's a real ingrained sense of entitlement out there that needs to be slapped out of the middle class.

Abbott didn't touch them at all though. instead he went after the very people that NEED the safety net. People under 30 who fall on hard times need the same basics as someone who's 30.

It wasn't just a mean spirited attempt; it was ineffectual. what was it, 1.6 billion saved over 4 years IIRC? He kept all the fat. and then wanted to put in a gold plated maternity scene which would pay the richest the most!

He was all over the shop, I don't see how his botched attempt would please ANYONE from either side.

Yep. That's where we hit peak stupidity.

 

[medusala]

Structural deficit, a delight in kicking refugees about, and tighter gun laws. Howard's legacy.

Howard only had a small structural deficit when he left office. The blame largely lies with lies with those in power since.

The senate is looking even more disgraceful now for not passing Abbott's spending cuts in his first budget. A shameful piece of grandstanding.

NB it's illegal immigrant not refugee.

 

[JackOutback]

NB it's illegal immigrant not refugee.

There's nothing illegal about seeking asylum. But I think you know that.

 

[medusala]

There's nothing illegal about seeking asylum. But I think you know that.

a) as below b) Gough attempted to call them refugees which is rather misleading as most will not have been accorded that status.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-06/morrison-correct-illegal-entry-people/4935372

The verdict
Mr Morrison is correct.

Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country.

That is the case even though these people have not committed any crime, nor broken any Australian or international law.

 

[GreyCrow]

Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country.

That is the case even though these people have not committed any crime, nor broken any Australian or international law.

I could get pedantic and ask who brought them to this country? If found in Australian waters I could say I was fishing or going on a day cruise. If the navy bring me to Australia have I entered illegally or has the Government aided and abetted

 

[JackOutback]

More than 90 per cent of the people on Manus and Nauru have been found to be refugees, so it's hardly misleading to describe them as such.