Welcome Welcome National Draft Pick #82 - Ben Davis

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Nov 1, 2012
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They were unable to take him as an academy player in the ND, but it sounds like they applied a second time just before the draft to take him as a pre-listed rookie if no one picked him up in the ND or PSD.

Dunno

But this is fairly clear:

However, unlike his brother who joined the Swans via the academy bidding system in 2014, Davis will not be eligible to join the club as an academy player.
 
Apr 29, 2008
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Dunno

But this is fairly clear:

However, unlike his brother who joined the Swans via the academy bidding system in 2014, Davis will not be eligible to join the club as an academy player.

I'll tell you what, the AFL have really made a pig's ear of the whole drafting/academy/etc system in the last couple of years. Nobody seems to have any clue what is and isn't allowed and clubs are making decisions that only make sense in the context of "the system is changing in ill-defined ways and we don't want to get caught short".

Is it really that hard to have a simple, clear drafting system?

This is why I'm dreading the inevitable live-trading mechanism they will put into the draft sooner or later. It'll become a nightmare to work out what the * is going on :eek:
 

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Crowfoot

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Loved hearing Ogilvie say that Ben had 30 disposals and 2 goals on a game where he was playing on McLuggage and Berry.

Edit: As Danger in Texas pointed out this was Matthew Signorello and NOT Ben Davis.
 
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May 24, 2006
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Oct 14, 2005
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In the case of Keath and Greenwood, it may be because I believe they're on a higher salary than the average rookie would be. Wouldn't make sense to have that higher salary sitting within the TPP unless it was guaranteed that they'd be playing. Just a theory though, I have no idea why.
Anything paid above the standard rookie contract is included in the salary cap.
 

headache1

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Anything paid above the standard rookie contract is included in the salary cap.

Is that the case for Cat B rookies though? I was under the impression that their salaries were completely exempt from the cap (unless elevated of course).
 
Oct 16, 2011
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Is that the case for Cat B rookies though? I was under the impression that their salaries were completely exempt from the cap (unless elevated of course).

The rule is a bit vauge and by a bit...

I don't think Rookie Cat B payments count in the cap until they are elevated onto the main list. A bit of a grey area for me is if the player was elevated onto the rookie list then what happens though I am sure the AFL would make policy on the run...

IE: If GWS does it, turn blind eye, if we do it, salary cap breach and loss of two years first round picks and lose father son privileges until all the Edwards boys have gone through
 
Oct 14, 2005
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Is that the case for Cat B rookies though? I was under the impression that their salaries were completely exempt from the cap (unless elevated of course).
Turns out I'm completely wrong. Here's the relevant paragraph from the AFL Player Rules May 2016:
10.12 Payments to Rookie Players Outside Total Player Payments
(a) Expressly Excluded
Subject to Rules 10.2(g), 10.10(b), 10.16(c), 10.17(b)(ii) and 11, all payments made by a Club to a Player listed on its Rookie List are excluded as Football Payments for the purposes of calculating a Club’s Total Player Payments.
The "subject to rules" paragraphs deal with situations where rookie payments are included in the cap:
10.2g - Rookie listed players aged 23+, who have played at least one AFL (H&A or Finals) game (e.g. Drew Petrie at West Coast)
10.10b - 3rd year rookie listed players
10.16 & 10.17 - Nominated rookies
11 - Alternative Talent (I think Greenwood was signed under this rule) - part of their football payments is included, but only if they play a senior match

None of these exclusion paragraphs mention anything about rookie payments being included in the cap, if they exceed the normal rookie contract payments.
 
Oct 14, 2005
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The rule is a bit vauge and by a bit...

I don't think Rookie Cat B payments count in the cap until they are elevated onto the main list. A bit of a grey area for me is if the player was elevated onto the rookie list then what happens though I am sure the AFL would make policy on the run...

IE: If GWS does it, turn blind eye, if we do it, salary cap breach and loss of two years first round picks and lose father son privileges until all the Edwards boys have gone through
Where is the grey area? There are specific provisions for when a player is upgraded to the senior list. Specifically, rules 10.16 (nominated rookies), 10.17 (mid-season nominated rookies), 26 (long term injury).

There is no mention, that I can find, of any rule specifying that a Cat B rookie becomes Cat A if they are upgraded to the senior list.
 

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Ralphyboy

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Ben Davis broke his leg a couple of years ago and missed his draft year. As a result the swans allowed him to continue in the academy as an under 19. His state games last year were all as an overage player.
During his draft year he did not nominate for the draft. As a consequence the swans lost academy rights over him. No doubt this does not happen anymore and the swans ensure all 18 year academy players nominate so the swans can retain their three year academy rights over the player.
Davis is not a bad kid but he has some form (dirty player) and will need to mature quickly in a senior environment. His brother Abe stacked on the kilos last year and was delisted without playing a game. Apparently he is moving to SA to try his hand at SANFL.
I am pleased for Ben Davis that he is getting a shot, however I also think the 19 year olds who get to play Rams and Allies get a bit of a free ride. Davis did play a few games at Swans NEAFL level last year where he went ok.
 

Shaz2012

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Ben Davis broke his leg a couple of years ago and missed his draft year. As a result the swans allowed him to continue in the academy as an under 19. His state games last year were all as an overage player.
During his draft year he did not nominate for the draft. As a consequence the swans lost academy rights over him. No doubt this does not happen anymore and the swans ensure all 18 year academy players nominate so the swans can retain their three year academy rights over the player.
Davis is not a bad kid but he has some form (dirty player) and will need to mature quickly in a senior environment. His brother Abe stacked on the kilos last year and was delisted without playing a game. Apparently he is moving to SA to try his hand at SANFL.
I am pleased for Ben Davis that he is getting a shot, however I also think the 19 year olds who get to play Rams and Allies get a bit of a free ride. Davis did play a few games at Swans NEAFL level last year where he went ok.

So it doesn't sound like your that convinced about him? Do you think he is better or worse than Abe? He was a borderline decision to be picked up by us as we were not planning on taking that many players. A lot of players make it to the crows list and never into the crows team. I reckon for a player that is pretty much overlooked by all clubs to make it he will need to have well above average mental strength and will. Your not filling me with confidence on these. But he is on the list now and so he has as much a chance as any other of our draftees.
 
Aug 7, 2015
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He was a borderline decision to be picked up by us as we were not planning on taking that many players. ...

It didn't sound like he was borderline for us. Think Hamish said something like - we weren't planning on taking a player at #82 but Ben was still there and too good to pass up.
 

Crowbots are dead

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So it doesn't sound like your that convinced about him? Do you think he is better or worse than Abe? He was a borderline decision to be picked up by us as we were not planning on taking that many players. A lot of players make it to the crows list and never into the crows team. I reckon for a player that is pretty much overlooked by all clubs to make it he will need to have well above average mental strength and will. Your not filling me with confidence on these. But he is on the list now and so he has as much a chance as any other of our draftees.
He was one of the last picks of the draft. No one should be convinced about him. Will need to work very hard.
 

Shaz2012

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It didn't sound like he was borderline for us. Think Hamish said something like - we weren't planning on taking a player at #82 but Ben was still there and too good to pass up.

I thought it was almost decided that the quota was filled and it was Pyke who said well if he is on your list, take him?
 
Oct 14, 2005
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I thought it was almost decided that the quota was filled and it was Pyke who said well if he is on your list, take him?
They were pretty much decided on going with 4x ND selections, plus 1x "live" ND selection (plus Shaw & BJ). When Ben Davis was still available, they changed tack, going with 5x ND and 0x RD (plus Shaw & BJ).

The advantage of this is that it gazumped Sydney, who were hoping the grab him in the RD as an Academy player. Exactly what people here were worried about other clubs doing to us, with regards to Jarman.
 

Shaz2012

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Sep 15, 2012
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They were pretty much decided on going with 4x ND selections, plus 1x "live" ND selection (plus Shaw & BJ). When Ben Davis was still available, they changed tack, going with 5x ND and 0x RD (plus Shaw & BJ).

The advantage of this is that it gazumped Sydney, who were hoping the grab him in the RD as an Academy player. Exactly what people here were worried about other clubs doing to us, with regards to Jarman.

Yeah. Thats the way that I understood it as well. Basically, he is a rookie on the main list. A rookie steal from Sydney. Smart move.
 

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